Jaane kahan gaye voh din!
Dost Mittar March 22, 2007
#58 Posted by zeemax on March 26, 2007 9:37:17 am
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#57 Posted by swarrier on March 26, 2007 7:58:55 am
Re: # 55
HN
You can almost picture yearning in those lines
Mora gora ang laile
Mohe shyam rang dai de
Chup jaaoongi hee raat mein
Mohe pee ka sang dai de
Gulzar is wonderful. Another person who enriched Hindi films was Shailendra. It`s a pity that formulaic Hindi films never went beyond the man meets woman formula for lyrics in those films to explore ideas other than yearning, love and all that jazz. I think more lyrics on social consciousness, poetry on contemporary themes would have been wonderful. Given more a chance for lyricists to explore.
HN
You can almost picture yearning in those lines
Mora gora ang laile
Mohe shyam rang dai de
Chup jaaoongi hee raat mein
Mohe pee ka sang dai de
Gulzar is wonderful. Another person who enriched Hindi films was Shailendra. It`s a pity that formulaic Hindi films never went beyond the man meets woman formula for lyrics in those films to explore ideas other than yearning, love and all that jazz. I think more lyrics on social consciousness, poetry on contemporary themes would have been wonderful. Given more a chance for lyricists to explore.
#56 Posted by rahul_capri on March 26, 2007 5:04:44 am
``This is a personal take, but perhaps worth pondering over. Urdu poetry got stuck in romantic phase for so long that it got pickled in it. Its only organic growth after that was in the leftist/socialist/humanistic political poetry. I am here of course speaking of only popular culture.``
HN,
Urdu is a language that resists corruption; in this sense it is different from Hindi /English. It requires non trivial education to speak write it correctly;which is probably not different from any other language.But urduwallahs will resist any attempt of cockney Urdu to be included in the literary canon..more vehemently than say,Hindiwallahs.What this does is that it effectively precludes a social class from participating in the literary canon. Even the leftist poetry in Urdu has a romantic /elitist slant to it. Its not ``zameen kii kavita`` a la Nagarjun or Trilochan.
HN,
Urdu is a language that resists corruption; in this sense it is different from Hindi /English. It requires non trivial education to speak write it correctly;which is probably not different from any other language.But urduwallahs will resist any attempt of cockney Urdu to be included in the literary canon..more vehemently than say,Hindiwallahs.What this does is that it effectively precludes a social class from participating in the literary canon. Even the leftist poetry in Urdu has a romantic /elitist slant to it. Its not ``zameen kii kavita`` a la Nagarjun or Trilochan.
#55 Posted by ZahraJ on March 25, 2007 9:56:32 pm
Re: # 50
Swarrier - Poetry, Music, Movies, Art, Literature and other derivates are very taste specific. One person may worship anything sung by Tallat Mahmood, whereas another fellow may not be able to tolerate his voice. I am reminded of some elders who used to play this song at their leisure moment. I am sorry, but I truly dislike it :(
I have read Bahadur Shah Zafar growing up and the poem you have quoted is indeed pretty. I have not heard anyone sing or recite it besides my own self(who used to like reciting poetry once upon a time).
Having learned kathak, I am reminded of my instructor who used to make us practice on some classics. That`s my only memory of these classics. Poetry is definitely a pretty addition to one`s life. If it`s well sung or well recited (like Gulzar`s beautiful articulation), then it leaves you with a beautiful memory. If you do not like the tune of the song or the voice of the singer, then you develop a dislike for the poem or the ghazal or whatever.
Swarrier - Poetry, Music, Movies, Art, Literature and other derivates are very taste specific. One person may worship anything sung by Tallat Mahmood, whereas another fellow may not be able to tolerate his voice. I am reminded of some elders who used to play this song at their leisure moment. I am sorry, but I truly dislike it :(
I have read Bahadur Shah Zafar growing up and the poem you have quoted is indeed pretty. I have not heard anyone sing or recite it besides my own self(who used to like reciting poetry once upon a time).
Having learned kathak, I am reminded of my instructor who used to make us practice on some classics. That`s my only memory of these classics. Poetry is definitely a pretty addition to one`s life. If it`s well sung or well recited (like Gulzar`s beautiful articulation), then it leaves you with a beautiful memory. If you do not like the tune of the song or the voice of the singer, then you develop a dislike for the poem or the ghazal or whatever.
#54 Posted by swarrier on March 25, 2007 7:50:43 pm
Re: # 51
Ranjit
That is a lovely song. Shivranjani seemed to be a particular favourite of Shankar Jaikishen. Another one I like is from the film Professor, ``Awaaz de ke , humen tum bulao, mohabbat me itna.....
A couple of my favourites are by Lata , ``Khabar mori na leeni, bahut din beete`` LP and Bharat Vyas joining up in Sant Gyaneshwar, and ``Agar tum ho saagar , main pyaasi nadi hoon``, Jaidev and Naqsh Lyallpuri in Tumhare Liye.
Bahadur Shah Zafar`s ``Na kisi ki aankh , ka noor hoon`` in Lal Qila too.
Ranjit
That is a lovely song. Shivranjani seemed to be a particular favourite of Shankar Jaikishen. Another one I like is from the film Professor, ``Awaaz de ke , humen tum bulao, mohabbat me itna.....
A couple of my favourites are by Lata , ``Khabar mori na leeni, bahut din beete`` LP and Bharat Vyas joining up in Sant Gyaneshwar, and ``Agar tum ho saagar , main pyaasi nadi hoon``, Jaidev and Naqsh Lyallpuri in Tumhare Liye.
Bahadur Shah Zafar`s ``Na kisi ki aankh , ka noor hoon`` in Lal Qila too.
#53 Posted by bjkumar on March 25, 2007 10:53:05 am
#52 HN
[…moved to Bollywood enriched Hindi lyrics at the cost of Urdu poetry]
The implication that poetry – when it gets adapted into a movie song becomes less of poetry is truly mind-boggling.
Write the stuff in Deonagri.
Write the same stuff in the wiggly script.
What’s the difference?! It sounds the same and it feels the same.
BTW, I was concerned that those ``Nagas`` got to you before you could get to ``complete`` their ``story``.
So, when are you going to start EARNING your “featured writer” status again?
#52 Posted by HN on March 25, 2007 8:46:58 am
DM,Warrier et all,
It is great to read this article for its nostalgia, above all else. Somewhere there was a mention of Gulzar, who I think was the last of the Mohicans in terms of the great migration of Urdu poets to Bollywood in the forties/fifties.
Also, while Sahir, Majrooh, Kaifi, Shakeel and Hasrat have got their due, I personally think Gulzar is often erroneously considered a lightweight. My personal take is that while the entire horde of Urdu poets who moved to Bollywood enriched Hindi lyrics at the cost of Urdu poetry, Gulzar alone has outlived them, literally and figuratively.
His being alive and kicking is perhaps out of tune with nostalgic eulogy. But, strictly from a poetic sensibility, I think Gulzar is the most modern, most “grown” lyricist in Hindi films straddling at least two distinct eras of Hindi music.
This is a personal take, but perhaps worth pondering over. Urdu poetry got stuck in romantic phase for so long that it got pickled in it. Its only organic growth after that was in the leftist/socialist/humanistic political poetry. I am here of course speaking of only popular culture.
Gulzar has singlehandedly scraped political paint off Urdu poetry and actually gone on and done things with the language that is still very unpalatable to the purists. The man who started out with mera gora ang laile has also penned hits that can never be connected to him. Think of Goli maar bheje mein in Satya, And yet, in Dil Se he came out with that most brilliant line….jis ki zubaan Urdu ki tarah.
He also used his poetry for unromantic/anti-romantic lyrics like dil vil pyaar vyaar mein kya janoon re…and…tujhe ho na ho mujh ko to itnaa yakeeN hai….mujhe pyaar tumse nahi hai nahi hai…. His romantic poetry is a rich vein of Hindi lyrics through out his career. But those haunting Yaara silli sili…an occasional Beedi Jalaai le jigar se piya…and then that sensuousness of …. Ek so solah chand ki rateiN aur tumhare kaanDhe ka til….and Raah pe rehteiN haiN, yaadoN mein basar kar teiN hai…it takes a lot of maturity to fill out the sheer emptiness of a truck driver….
As regards his lyrics beating the easy metric rhyming scheme…again I think it is what underlines the man’s changing…and growing as a lyricist/poet. I remember reading how R D Burman, a duh with Urdu…and perhaps not really a great Hindi scholar either…saying to Gulzar that he cut the articles of Times of India into some sort of lines…and asked him to put it to tune. That RD’s genius combined with Gulzar’s so well and is now lost….is something Hindi films will always miss. Vishal Bharadwaj is of course a promising talent with the same sensibility.
And let’s not even attempt to put Javed Akhtar in the same bracket as Gulzar…please. Not that anyone has done it so far…but this is just a preemptive statement to cease and desist.
HN
It is great to read this article for its nostalgia, above all else. Somewhere there was a mention of Gulzar, who I think was the last of the Mohicans in terms of the great migration of Urdu poets to Bollywood in the forties/fifties.
Also, while Sahir, Majrooh, Kaifi, Shakeel and Hasrat have got their due, I personally think Gulzar is often erroneously considered a lightweight. My personal take is that while the entire horde of Urdu poets who moved to Bollywood enriched Hindi lyrics at the cost of Urdu poetry, Gulzar alone has outlived them, literally and figuratively.
His being alive and kicking is perhaps out of tune with nostalgic eulogy. But, strictly from a poetic sensibility, I think Gulzar is the most modern, most “grown” lyricist in Hindi films straddling at least two distinct eras of Hindi music.
This is a personal take, but perhaps worth pondering over. Urdu poetry got stuck in romantic phase for so long that it got pickled in it. Its only organic growth after that was in the leftist/socialist/humanistic political poetry. I am here of course speaking of only popular culture.
Gulzar has singlehandedly scraped political paint off Urdu poetry and actually gone on and done things with the language that is still very unpalatable to the purists. The man who started out with mera gora ang laile has also penned hits that can never be connected to him. Think of Goli maar bheje mein in Satya, And yet, in Dil Se he came out with that most brilliant line….jis ki zubaan Urdu ki tarah.
He also used his poetry for unromantic/anti-romantic lyrics like dil vil pyaar vyaar mein kya janoon re…and…tujhe ho na ho mujh ko to itnaa yakeeN hai….mujhe pyaar tumse nahi hai nahi hai…. His romantic poetry is a rich vein of Hindi lyrics through out his career. But those haunting Yaara silli sili…an occasional Beedi Jalaai le jigar se piya…and then that sensuousness of …. Ek so solah chand ki rateiN aur tumhare kaanDhe ka til….and Raah pe rehteiN haiN, yaadoN mein basar kar teiN hai…it takes a lot of maturity to fill out the sheer emptiness of a truck driver….
As regards his lyrics beating the easy metric rhyming scheme…again I think it is what underlines the man’s changing…and growing as a lyricist/poet. I remember reading how R D Burman, a duh with Urdu…and perhaps not really a great Hindi scholar either…saying to Gulzar that he cut the articles of Times of India into some sort of lines…and asked him to put it to tune. That RD’s genius combined with Gulzar’s so well and is now lost….is something Hindi films will always miss. Vishal Bharadwaj is of course a promising talent with the same sensibility.
And let’s not even attempt to put Javed Akhtar in the same bracket as Gulzar…please. Not that anyone has done it so far…but this is just a preemptive statement to cease and desist.
HN
#51 Posted by Ranjit on March 24, 2007 4:15:58 pm
Re:swarrier#50
Speaking of Raag Shivranjani, the Kishore song ``Mere Naina Sawan Bhado`` is also in Shivranjani. Awesome raag!!
Speaking of Raag Shivranjani, the Kishore song ``Mere Naina Sawan Bhado`` is also in Shivranjani. Awesome raag!!
#50 Posted by swarrier on March 24, 2007 9:20:38 am
Re: # 49
DM and ZahraJ
It`s actually a pretty decent tune. It`s based on the raaga Shivranjani and it conveys pathos pretty well. There is also a tonal variation where a different note is used at one point. Very nice.
As Charles Ives said `` beauty in music is too often confused with something that lets the ear lie back in an easy chair.``
DM, I have a great fondness for Vanraj Bhatia as I have for Khayyam.
DM and ZahraJ
It`s actually a pretty decent tune. It`s based on the raaga Shivranjani and it conveys pathos pretty well. There is also a tonal variation where a different note is used at one point. Very nice.
As Charles Ives said `` beauty in music is too often confused with something that lets the ear lie back in an easy chair.``
DM, I have a great fondness for Vanraj Bhatia as I have for Khayyam.
#49 Posted by dost_mittar on March 24, 2007 6:55:37 am
ZahraJ#46:
This is not among my most favourite songs but it served as an appropriate title for this article as it conveyed its messge very well.
As to why we like melancholy music, ahmedmadani has given a good answer. For a musical answer, go to the following website and click on ``hain sab se madhur voh geet``:
http://www.dishant.com/album/Legend_-_Talat_Mahmood_-_The_Silken_Voice.html
This is not among my most favourite songs but it served as an appropriate title for this article as it conveyed its messge very well.
As to why we like melancholy music, ahmedmadani has given a good answer. For a musical answer, go to the following website and click on ``hain sab se madhur voh geet``:
http://www.dishant.com/album/Legend_-_Talat_Mahmood_-_The_Silken_Voice.html
#48 Posted by dost_mittar on March 24, 2007 6:51:26 am
swarrier#45:
I agree that Khayyam has not given completely classical music but, in my opinion, Sardari Begum`s music is also semi-classical and that is very much up Khayyam/s alley. As you would be aware, the inspiration for Sardari was Begum Akhtar and some of her best compositions are with Khayyam. I tried to search for her rendition of Ghalib`s ``Sab kahaan kuchh Lal-o-Gul mein numaaiyaan ho gaye`` with music by Khyaam but couldn`t find it. Try a listen if you can get hold of it.
I agree that Khayyam has not given completely classical music but, in my opinion, Sardari Begum`s music is also semi-classical and that is very much up Khayyam/s alley. As you would be aware, the inspiration for Sardari was Begum Akhtar and some of her best compositions are with Khayyam. I tried to search for her rendition of Ghalib`s ``Sab kahaan kuchh Lal-o-Gul mein numaaiyaan ho gaye`` with music by Khyaam but couldn`t find it. Try a listen if you can get hold of it.
#47 Posted by ahmedmadani on March 23, 2007 11:44:04 pm
Re: # 46
A good question why we long for melancolic tunes. I can not answer clearly but but tragic things touch our hearts much deeply and we remember distinctly than joyful things. The legend tells the Buddha was so much affected by sorrow he abandoned happy life.
If you think of all major plays we appreciate by shakespear ,Hamlet, Othollo,McBeth, Julious Ceasar and crowning all them is King Lear are all with Pathos . Classical Greek Drama is tragic only and destruction of men and women by orginal sin , which as basic character flaw. If you have listened to western music played at requium or Funerals is very touching. A very touching music is played in Dr. Zivago music when the child is at funeral of his mother and leaves flowers and starts going back with his uncle and the notes are haunting( there two more melancholic tunes for two more occasions in that movies) and they reverberate as they are melancholic. Or famous Turkish death march/ Vinnea is very great sorrowful majestic music. And you remember notes and they can be stunning. In old age we mature and past haunts and you can listen to meloncolic tunes natural to your mental disposition.
Good day.
Meloncoly is also part of sublimation of older mind and its bit with nostalgic ethos not so natural with young people.I feel as we grow old and our children move away on thier way we are left alone and we know we have to carry our cross its lonely path and on this path some thing, like young people bubbly couple gigling or old cat feebly walking you remember times gone and never to come one , or old cats gone charm just remainds you if you are sensetive.As we grow old one becomes , we note mistakes we made and there is pathos and so we old like meloncolic tunes.
A good question why we long for melancolic tunes. I can not answer clearly but but tragic things touch our hearts much deeply and we remember distinctly than joyful things. The legend tells the Buddha was so much affected by sorrow he abandoned happy life.
If you think of all major plays we appreciate by shakespear ,Hamlet, Othollo,McBeth, Julious Ceasar and crowning all them is King Lear are all with Pathos . Classical Greek Drama is tragic only and destruction of men and women by orginal sin , which as basic character flaw. If you have listened to western music played at requium or Funerals is very touching. A very touching music is played in Dr. Zivago music when the child is at funeral of his mother and leaves flowers and starts going back with his uncle and the notes are haunting( there two more melancholic tunes for two more occasions in that movies) and they reverberate as they are melancholic. Or famous Turkish death march/ Vinnea is very great sorrowful majestic music. And you remember notes and they can be stunning. In old age we mature and past haunts and you can listen to meloncolic tunes natural to your mental disposition.
Good day.
Meloncoly is also part of sublimation of older mind and its bit with nostalgic ethos not so natural with young people.I feel as we grow old and our children move away on thier way we are left alone and we know we have to carry our cross its lonely path and on this path some thing, like young people bubbly couple gigling or old cat feebly walking you remember times gone and never to come one , or old cats gone charm just remainds you if you are sensetive.As we grow old one becomes , we note mistakes we made and there is pathos and so we old like meloncolic tunes.
#46 Posted by ZahraJ on March 23, 2007 4:51:22 pm
Dost Mittar -
Hello! Hope you have been keeping well. As soon as I saw the title, I was reminded of the weird tune of this song. I am sorry I never liked the tune and the music behind this song. The lyrics are pretty, but it`s a very depressing tune. I understand that you have tried to compile the music of the bygone era and used the title to attract your audience. I never understood the reason behind our elders liking these melancholic tunes.
In any case, it was nice to see you back. Hope you had a nice break from Chowk.
Regards,
Z
Hello! Hope you have been keeping well. As soon as I saw the title, I was reminded of the weird tune of this song. I am sorry I never liked the tune and the music behind this song. The lyrics are pretty, but it`s a very depressing tune. I understand that you have tried to compile the music of the bygone era and used the title to attract your audience. I never understood the reason behind our elders liking these melancholic tunes.
In any case, it was nice to see you back. Hope you had a nice break from Chowk.
Regards,
Z
#45 Posted by swarrier on March 23, 2007 2:41:20 pm
Re: # 44
I cannot make such a statement regarding composers that differ so widely in styles. I do not think Khayyam has given a completely classical score of this genre.
I have heard a lot of Aarti Anklikar since she is a purely classical singer and very little of Shubha Mudgal to compare the two. Vani Jairam is not entirely my cup of tea.
I cannot make such a statement regarding composers that differ so widely in styles. I do not think Khayyam has given a completely classical score of this genre.
I have heard a lot of Aarti Anklikar since she is a purely classical singer and very little of Shubha Mudgal to compare the two. Vani Jairam is not entirely my cup of tea.
#44 Posted by dost_mittar on March 23, 2007 2:06:50 pm
swarrier#43:
Yes, I have these in my collection. Good songs. But I think that Khayam would have done a better job; also I would have preferred to see somenone like Vani Jairam or Shubha Mudgal instead of Arti Angalikar as the main singer for Sardari.
Yes, I have these in my collection. Good songs. But I think that Khayam would have done a better job; also I would have preferred to see somenone like Vani Jairam or Shubha Mudgal instead of Arti Angalikar as the main singer for Sardari.
#43 Posted by swarrier on March 23, 2007 1:39:32 pm
DM listen to these, you may have already hear them but they are lovely from Sardari Begum a film made in the 90`s
Ghar Nahin
Sanwariya
Huzoor
Raah mein
Ghar Nahin
Sanwariya
Huzoor
Raah mein
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