Jaane kahan gaye voh din!

hassan #5:

My lament is only about film music. I agree that non-film music caters to a wider constituency. Jagjit Singh, Pankaj Udhas, Ghulam Ali, Saabri Brothers and Abida Parveen are providing good old-fashioned ghazals and qawwalis. And there are a few gems in a lot of ``kachra`` being produced in Punjabi music on both sides of the border.

deja_who?#6:

``I bet old foggies in 1960s were also bemoaning the death of music in Indian films at that time.. ``

Yes, but the difference is that even the younger folks are now complaining. When I see some of the popular Indian TV programs like Sa Re Ga Ma, they mostly sing songs from the old films and shun contemporary music.

plats8#7:

I am less familiar with Gulzaar`s work. His songs have a ``nasr`` (free verse) quality which is unique to him, such as his maiden song ``mora gora ang lai lai, mohe shyam rang dai dai``. Personally, I believe he shines today partly because there is hardly any competition.

ranjit#8:

We have a weekly program in Ottawa which also plays lot of old songs and has been quite popular for over 25 years.

Shah2#9:

Kishore Kumar owes a lot to the father-son music directors S.D. Burman and Rahul Burman. Kishore was perhaps less gifted than the other stalwarts of his time, like Rafi, Manna Dey, Hemant and Talat. But he made up for that by his versatility and sincerity. Besides, he was one heck of a showman if you had the chance to see him in a personal performance, which I did.

delhiwala#10:

No, I am back in Canada. I am interested in all types of good music, including film music. In fact, I developed my love for classical music via film music after listening to thumris, dadras and todas of khyals used by talented music directors like Vasant Desai, Naushad and Anil Biswas.

A very nice article Sir. Old Indian music is AMAZING. New Music, with loud bass provides more oppertunities to `expose`. I want to ask a common question. There is huge difference between styles of old and new music. Can it be said with surety that old music is qualitatively superior to new music? What is the real edge of old music which is totally missing in new music? Are new singers incompitent? Given the old instruments and old music directors, can they not sing better than old singers? On other side, what are the positive qualities of new style of music, which were missing in old? Still many big names are part of contemporary music industry. Have they not brought any real advancement in music technologies?

Regards!

#22

[Are new singers incompitent?]

No, but the same can rarely be said of the writing lot.

bjkumar#12,16:

Nice comments.

``One of my most pleasant memories as a college student is to have taken those long train trips in Second Class unreserved compartments and being woken up in the morning by the sound of somebody or other singing a bhajan – mostly a filmy bhajan!``

I too have similar memories - of a crowded train with a beggar and his family singing songs like ``Mehlon mein rehne wale hamein tere dar se kya?``

Regarding Sahir Ludhyanvi, let me try to restore your faith in your hero by the following:
1. He is my hero, too, and I have known about his personal life for a long time.
2. What I said is hearsay and there is no documentary proof for that. However, it is quite credible because Sahir was a Punjabi and, unlike UP which had a Hindi-Urdu composite culture, Punjab was dominated by Urdu-Persian influence. This was true equally of Sikhs and Hindus and not just Muslims; indeed they could be easily seen carrying their ``gutkas`` of Gurbani and Geeta in Urdu rather than Gurmukhi and Devnagri.
3. Sahir was a people`s poet not because he could write Hindi like a Shastri but because he could write songs in people`s language that went straight to the heart.
4. If your disappoint was with his being gay, this is true of several other remarkable artists. You are perhaps unaware that fascination with a boy is very much part of the Persian/Urdu poetry; indeed the term Saqi refers to a boy and not a girl.

khurram#22:

``Can it be said with surety that old music is qualitatively superior to new music? What is the real edge of old music which is totally missing in new music?``

This is a value judgement but my bias is clear from the article. I think that the real edge that is missing in the new music (in the context of film music only) is both meaningful lyrics and soulful melodies. Here, I would like to put in a word or two in defence of the new directors - they are simply responding to the changing tastes of their consumers. I have sometimes seen a really soulful song or two in recent films but they rarely become popular. Khayam is still alive but nobody seems to be interested in using his talents.

``Are new singers incompitent?``

No, they are amazing. The proliferation of music competition programs on TV show that there is no dearth of talent. More importantly, if you look at the classical music scene, you find new singers coming up all the time and not just from Pune. Once again, there is dearth of appreciation - Khayam introduced a wonderful new singer, Kabban Mirza in his film Razia Sultan (Aayee zanjeer ki jhankaar Khuda khai kare!) but hardly anyone took notice of him and he was never heard from again.

`` On other side, what are the positive qualities of new style of music, which were missing in old? ``

Maybe background music.

Re:khuram

[...Can it be said with surety that old music is qualitatively superior to new music? ...]

The legendary music director Anil Biswas once said about new songs vs. old songs - ``Naye gaanon se pao thiraktey hain, dil nahi dharaktey`` i.e. the new songs have the rhythm to make you dance but they do not have the melody to touch your hearts. That is the key difference. Even today if you listen to the golden oldies, your heart will skip a beat.

When I hear a Talat Mehmood`s - ``Jaye to jaye kahaan`` or Rafi`s - ``Hum bekhudi mein tum ko pukare chale gayen`` or Lata`s - ``Allah tero naam``. or Noor Jehan`s -``Mujhse Pehli si Mohabbat Mere Mehboob na Maang`` even now I get a weird sensation of pure joy although I must have heard these songs hundreds of times.

Re: # 27

Agree with you 100%, except on Bob-Woolmering him. Let BJ find a Gandhian way to deal with him.:)

Re:dost-mittar

[..Here, I would like to put in a word or two in defence of the new directors - they are simply responding to the changing tastes of their consumers.....]

DM sahib, that is true. But I really really hope someone does a Bob Woolmer on that idiot Himesh Reshmaiyya. Himesh has single handedly destroyed film music with his obnoxious compositions starting with a nasal ``Ouuuuuuuuuuuuuu``!! Aaaarghhh!!

DM
A point, Indian film music is not necessarily limited to Hindi film music. So perhaps you should be talking more about the lack of quality of the music in Bollywood films. While Hindi music languished pretty much in the 70`s there were South Indian films that still carried on with good music through today. Music directors like Illyaraja and Raveendran etc composed excellent music through the 90`s. In fact Ravi Sharma (remember Chaudvin ka chand , Gumraah, Humraaz etc) who stopped composing for Hindi films around 1970 composed and won National awards for his music in Malayalam films.

Perhaps with the coming of Amitabh Bachan and his angry young man image there was less time for introspective music and lyrics in Hindi films . I mean there is some difference between , `` Badi Sooni Sooni hain`` in Mili and ``Khaike Paan banao Rasawala (funnily enough this one is based on Madhma sarang).
Hindi movies during that period did not often explore other avenues. It was usually boy meets girl in the college canteen or angry young man does things for his mother/country/girl/father/....... with the help of a hockey stick. Hardly the stuff to inspire great melodies or lyrics.

Still even in these dark periods we did have good music in decent movies, Gharaonda, Gaman, Ijaazat, Saath Saath.

Things are not so bad today. I`d say there is more decent music now than in the 80`s. We still have Vanraj Bhatia (Sardari Begum), Bhupen Hazarika , Shantanu Moitra (amongst the younger ones) and in my opinion Annu Malik can still compose good music if he were to try, instead of copying. It`s a shame that Border was passed over for the puerile rubbish in Dil to Paagal Hai .

I can go on about orchestration, Shankar Jaikishen used a large orchestra to good effect. It`s not so bad, you just need film makers who understand music and life.

@ Dost Mitter

This is a value judgement but my bias is clear from the article. I think that the real edge that is missing in the new music (in the context of film music only) is both meaningful lyrics and soulful melodies. Here, I would like to put in a word or two in defence of the new directors - they are simply responding to the changing tastes of their consumers. I have sometimes seen a really soulful song or two in recent films but they rarely become popular. Khayam is still alive but nobody seems to be interested in using his talents.


Jane Kahan Gaye Wo Din
Kehte Thay Chahe Jo Bhi Ho, Audiance Ki Shan Barrhayein Gay
Only Meaningful Lyrics aur Soulful Melodies K Geet Banayein Gay
Ab To Magar Commercial Hain Din
Jo Thirakna Chahte Hain On Ko Sirf Thirkayein Gay
Meaning Ya Soul Se Hum Ko Kia
Hum To Paisa He Bas Kamayein Gay

What I have understood out of the replies of Dost Mitter Sahib and Ranjit Sahib is that there has been no decline in talent or technology. In many respects, there has been improvement in both these things. But old music is still qualitatively superior. Secondly my understanding of why old music was more meaningful and soulful as compared to modern music is that in old days, there were only few channels of media. That was the age of Cinema and Radio. People used to see full feature film whenever they went to Cinema. They used to see the full story in one sitting. Music was more meaningful because in those days, songs had to be wriiten with the view to fit them in the story of film. Now it is the age of multi-channels. People have been accustomed to using remote control and they do not watch any single program or film in a single sitting. They usually ``stop`` switching channels when they see some exposure or action. The issue before music directors is not to fit the meaning of songs in the story of film because the real issue before them is how to get audiance stayed at the their channel for a while. People now really do not see full feature film in one sitting. Even HBO channel repeats English feature films many time so that audiance may see full film in different sittings. So in this way, age of meaning or soul has gone. Future music shall be more loudy, fast etc.

Regards!

ranjit#27:

Reshamiyya seems to be a one-trick pony. His popularity is enhanced by what Khurram (#29) has called the ability to keep fingers from pressing the remote button. His popularity is in no small measure due to the racy videos, generally with Emraan Hashmi in them. But I think that he has now peaked. I understand that he tried to change his style in the music of Benaras (I haven`t seen the film) but it flopped.

Re: # 31
DM
You would agree an orchestra is nothing but a vehicle for the music. The real strength of an orchestra lies in providng chordal harmony, a theme that is not exploited by the music of the subcontinent. Our music is monadic and based almost completely on melody and rythm. That may explain the partiality most of us have to more melodic compositions. A large orchestra can negate some of the effect.
In my opinion Salil Chowdhury was the one music director who used an orchestra in a refreshing manner in Hindi films. Often his orchestra does not follow the voice or primary melody but skirts around the main theme This is closer to the western ideal where there are different melodies played by different groups of instruments. Few other music directors have achieved this.
There are other music directors who are out of the public eye like Bhaskar Chandavarkar and Hridayanath Mangeshkar who dabbled in Hindi film music. They are great too.
I am peeved that you did not mention another of my personal favourites, Sajjad Hussain.
Very few compare to him. Listen to the songs of Sangdil, Rustom Sohrab, Hulchul.....

Cheers