Jaane kahan gaye voh din!
Dost Mittar March 22, 2007
#59 Posted by GT on March 26, 2007 9:40:39 am
Re: # 57
swarrier, DM:
Since we are onto this - folk, classical music, urdu, hindi etc. Would it be too much to ask you to get into Amir Khusro (Khusrau). No not an article on him, there are many. But sharing some knowledge, here on ``interacts``, which is not commonly known.
What can be more mysterious, spiritual and tittilating as:
``Chap tilak sab cheen .....``
swarrier, DM:
Since we are onto this - folk, classical music, urdu, hindi etc. Would it be too much to ask you to get into Amir Khusro (Khusrau). No not an article on him, there are many. But sharing some knowledge, here on ``interacts``, which is not commonly known.
What can be more mysterious, spiritual and tittilating as:
``Chap tilak sab cheen .....``
reply to this interact
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#57 Posted by swarrier on March 26, 2007 7:58:55 am
Re: # 55
HN
You can almost picture yearning in those lines
Mora gora ang laile
Mohe shyam rang dai de
Chup jaaoongi hee raat mein
Mohe pee ka sang dai de
Gulzar is wonderful. Another person who enriched Hindi films was Shailendra. It`s a pity that formulaic Hindi films never went beyond the man meets woman formula for lyrics in those films to explore ideas other than yearning, love and all that jazz. I think more lyrics on social consciousness, poetry on contemporary themes would have been wonderful. Given more a chance for lyricists to explore.
HN
You can almost picture yearning in those lines
Mora gora ang laile
Mohe shyam rang dai de
Chup jaaoongi hee raat mein
Mohe pee ka sang dai de
Gulzar is wonderful. Another person who enriched Hindi films was Shailendra. It`s a pity that formulaic Hindi films never went beyond the man meets woman formula for lyrics in those films to explore ideas other than yearning, love and all that jazz. I think more lyrics on social consciousness, poetry on contemporary themes would have been wonderful. Given more a chance for lyricists to explore.
#63 Posted by ZahraJ on March 26, 2007 11:17:25 am
Re: # 62
Swarrier - While we are on the subject, for me it`s always the ``chemistry`` that has to go well :) I have been a calculus and chemistry person through and through. Physics was ok. Heat transfer and Design was where my passion lied once upon a time.
I suggest listening to Gulzar`s introduction to Abida Parveen singing Kabir. That`s the most magnificent work I have come across in ages. I do not ever share my CDs or music collection, but I gave that away to my father`s youngest sister (pophi jaan) who has the appreciation for the said verses and won`t have found them on her own in DC. That`s a huge step for me to part with something that meant a lot to me. I never missed that CD since I still have the cover and it gives me an impression that I still have it somewhere. I may not ever buy it again since I can get it on Rhapsody online. I felt like mentioning that CD since it brings artists from both side together to create magnificence.
People, like BJK, may come back to give me a sermon, ``ama zahra ji, how could you ever think of having kabir, india and pakistan in one sentence? We are all derivates of the same ancestors.`` And, he may have his own point in that :)
I like the cover and the message it conveys. Check it out if you haven`t already.
http://www.sonarupa.co.uk/itm00977.htm
Swarrier - While we are on the subject, for me it`s always the ``chemistry`` that has to go well :) I have been a calculus and chemistry person through and through. Physics was ok. Heat transfer and Design was where my passion lied once upon a time.
I suggest listening to Gulzar`s introduction to Abida Parveen singing Kabir. That`s the most magnificent work I have come across in ages. I do not ever share my CDs or music collection, but I gave that away to my father`s youngest sister (pophi jaan) who has the appreciation for the said verses and won`t have found them on her own in DC. That`s a huge step for me to part with something that meant a lot to me. I never missed that CD since I still have the cover and it gives me an impression that I still have it somewhere. I may not ever buy it again since I can get it on Rhapsody online. I felt like mentioning that CD since it brings artists from both side together to create magnificence.
People, like BJK, may come back to give me a sermon, ``ama zahra ji, how could you ever think of having kabir, india and pakistan in one sentence? We are all derivates of the same ancestors.`` And, he may have his own point in that :)
I like the cover and the message it conveys. Check it out if you haven`t already.
http://www.sonarupa.co.uk/itm00977.htm
#62 Posted by swarrier on March 26, 2007 10:24:27 am
Re: # 55
Zahra
[Swarrier - Poetry, Music, Movies, Art, Literature and other derivates are very taste specific.]
I`m tempted to say that this is true of Physics , Maths et al. I liked calculus and Electrodynamics and Quantum mech, but was never really enthused with number theory or mechanics. -)
What you say is true to some extent? But you know it takes some time and effort to appreciate any form of art. You might hate a Picasso or a Wagner at the first sight or hearing and then you might go back to look at them in a different light later, and begin to appreciate their creations.
I`m sure some of the elders (they sound like they come out of Tolkien) must have lightened up sometime and romped to ``Aana meri jaan meri jaan , Sunday ke Sunday``... -)
The Bahadur Shah Zafar verse in the film Lal Qila was sung by Rafi and the music was by S N Tripathi. It`s been done by a whole lot of other folks too.
Zahra
[Swarrier - Poetry, Music, Movies, Art, Literature and other derivates are very taste specific.]
I`m tempted to say that this is true of Physics , Maths et al. I liked calculus and Electrodynamics and Quantum mech, but was never really enthused with number theory or mechanics. -)
What you say is true to some extent? But you know it takes some time and effort to appreciate any form of art. You might hate a Picasso or a Wagner at the first sight or hearing and then you might go back to look at them in a different light later, and begin to appreciate their creations.
I`m sure some of the elders (they sound like they come out of Tolkien) must have lightened up sometime and romped to ``Aana meri jaan meri jaan , Sunday ke Sunday``... -)
The Bahadur Shah Zafar verse in the film Lal Qila was sung by Rafi and the music was by S N Tripathi. It`s been done by a whole lot of other folks too.
#74 Posted by swarrier on March 27, 2007 7:13:46 am
Re: # 67
I have a CD with Kishori Amonkar singing some of Kabir`s work. I have not listened to it in almost 10 years but I must dig it up. It was titled after Kabir`s ``Ghat Ghat mein panchi bolta``. There is one bhajan by Mirabai too. I did not think that it was as good as her other works. She is my favourite Hindustani classical vocalist. Her live performances are something to savour.
I used to have strong opinions on Mukesh too. However there is some magic in his voice and one must sometimes sacrifice perfectness for expression. Otherwise I would never be able to listen to any western singer except the classical ones. A large majority of pop , rock and even jazz musicians cannot hold a note to save their lives.
Lata was different. Most music directors kept her singing in the upper register because few people could sing accurately at that pitch and secondly I guess they wanted the heroine to be the good little virginal girl who never grew up. Lata`s voice seemed to have some fo that quality at that pitch. Some of her non film songs that explore the lower registers are superb.
I liked some of Nur Jahan`s earlier works but the later ones were rather limited.
I have a CD with Kishori Amonkar singing some of Kabir`s work. I have not listened to it in almost 10 years but I must dig it up. It was titled after Kabir`s ``Ghat Ghat mein panchi bolta``. There is one bhajan by Mirabai too. I did not think that it was as good as her other works. She is my favourite Hindustani classical vocalist. Her live performances are something to savour.
I used to have strong opinions on Mukesh too. However there is some magic in his voice and one must sometimes sacrifice perfectness for expression. Otherwise I would never be able to listen to any western singer except the classical ones. A large majority of pop , rock and even jazz musicians cannot hold a note to save their lives.
Lata was different. Most music directors kept her singing in the upper register because few people could sing accurately at that pitch and secondly I guess they wanted the heroine to be the good little virginal girl who never grew up. Lata`s voice seemed to have some fo that quality at that pitch. Some of her non film songs that explore the lower registers are superb.
I liked some of Nur Jahan`s earlier works but the later ones were rather limited.
#67 Posted by ZahraJ on March 26, 2007 5:34:44 pm
Re: # 66
swarrier - Interestingly I learned about Kabir by a learned Indian fellow on Chowk. He had just mentioned Kabir to me and I guess the same year I came across this CD and was pleasantly surprised. Besides all the fiascos on Chowk, that`s a good introduction to something very sweet.
swarrier - Interestingly I learned about Kabir by a learned Indian fellow on Chowk. He had just mentioned Kabir to me and I guess the same year I came across this CD and was pleasantly surprised. Besides all the fiascos on Chowk, that`s a good introduction to something very sweet.
#66 Posted by swarrier on March 26, 2007 1:32:51 pm
Re: # 65
How on earth did this thing get posted twice. I`m begining to believe there are gremlins on the net. -)
Zahra
Thanks for the CD suggestion. I have not heard it and I shall definitely get a copy. I began to appreciate Hindi/Urdu later in life not being a native speaker.
Poetry in my first years in school was a dreadful subject. I always thought as a kid that a person called Anonymous wrote a lot of English poetry that he shouldn`t have.
Music was a different experience. I craved complexity in it. I suppose you could say music soothes the dumb beast. -)
RE: #59
GT
I know very little about Amir Khusro that is not common knowledge.
How on earth did this thing get posted twice. I`m begining to believe there are gremlins on the net. -)
Zahra
Thanks for the CD suggestion. I have not heard it and I shall definitely get a copy. I began to appreciate Hindi/Urdu later in life not being a native speaker.
Poetry in my first years in school was a dreadful subject. I always thought as a kid that a person called Anonymous wrote a lot of English poetry that he shouldn`t have.
Music was a different experience. I craved complexity in it. I suppose you could say music soothes the dumb beast. -)
RE: #59
GT
I know very little about Amir Khusro that is not common knowledge.
#65 Posted by swarrier on March 26, 2007 1:21:10 pm
Re: # 55
Zahra
[Swarrier - Poetry, Music, Movies, Art, Literature and other derivates are very taste specific.]
I`m tempted to say that this is true of Physics , Maths et al. I liked calculus and Electrodynamics and Quantum mech, but was never really enthused with number theory or mechanics. -)
What you say is true to some extent? But you know it takes some time and effort to appreciate any form of art. You might hate a Picasso or a Wagner at the first sight or hearing and then you might go back to look at them in a different light later, and begin to appreciate their creations.
I`m sure some of the elders (they sound like they come out of Tolkien) must have lightened up sometime and romped to ``Aana meri jaan meri jaan , Sunday ke Sunday``... -)
The Bahadur Shah Zafar verse in the film Lal Qila was sung by Rafi and the music was by S N Tripathi. It`s been done by a whole lot of other folks too.
Zahra
[Swarrier - Poetry, Music, Movies, Art, Literature and other derivates are very taste specific.]
I`m tempted to say that this is true of Physics , Maths et al. I liked calculus and Electrodynamics and Quantum mech, but was never really enthused with number theory or mechanics. -)
What you say is true to some extent? But you know it takes some time and effort to appreciate any form of art. You might hate a Picasso or a Wagner at the first sight or hearing and then you might go back to look at them in a different light later, and begin to appreciate their creations.
I`m sure some of the elders (they sound like they come out of Tolkien) must have lightened up sometime and romped to ``Aana meri jaan meri jaan , Sunday ke Sunday``... -)
The Bahadur Shah Zafar verse in the film Lal Qila was sung by Rafi and the music was by S N Tripathi. It`s been done by a whole lot of other folks too.
#55 Posted by ZahraJ on March 25, 2007 9:56:32 pm
Re: # 50
Swarrier - Poetry, Music, Movies, Art, Literature and other derivates are very taste specific. One person may worship anything sung by Tallat Mahmood, whereas another fellow may not be able to tolerate his voice. I am reminded of some elders who used to play this song at their leisure moment. I am sorry, but I truly dislike it :(
I have read Bahadur Shah Zafar growing up and the poem you have quoted is indeed pretty. I have not heard anyone sing or recite it besides my own self(who used to like reciting poetry once upon a time).
Having learned kathak, I am reminded of my instructor who used to make us practice on some classics. That`s my only memory of these classics. Poetry is definitely a pretty addition to one`s life. If it`s well sung or well recited (like Gulzar`s beautiful articulation), then it leaves you with a beautiful memory. If you do not like the tune of the song or the voice of the singer, then you develop a dislike for the poem or the ghazal or whatever.
Swarrier - Poetry, Music, Movies, Art, Literature and other derivates are very taste specific. One person may worship anything sung by Tallat Mahmood, whereas another fellow may not be able to tolerate his voice. I am reminded of some elders who used to play this song at their leisure moment. I am sorry, but I truly dislike it :(
I have read Bahadur Shah Zafar growing up and the poem you have quoted is indeed pretty. I have not heard anyone sing or recite it besides my own self(who used to like reciting poetry once upon a time).
Having learned kathak, I am reminded of my instructor who used to make us practice on some classics. That`s my only memory of these classics. Poetry is definitely a pretty addition to one`s life. If it`s well sung or well recited (like Gulzar`s beautiful articulation), then it leaves you with a beautiful memory. If you do not like the tune of the song or the voice of the singer, then you develop a dislike for the poem or the ghazal or whatever.
#50 Posted by swarrier on March 24, 2007 9:20:38 am
Re: # 49
DM and ZahraJ
It`s actually a pretty decent tune. It`s based on the raaga Shivranjani and it conveys pathos pretty well. There is also a tonal variation where a different note is used at one point. Very nice.
As Charles Ives said `` beauty in music is too often confused with something that lets the ear lie back in an easy chair.``
DM, I have a great fondness for Vanraj Bhatia as I have for Khayyam.
DM and ZahraJ
It`s actually a pretty decent tune. It`s based on the raaga Shivranjani and it conveys pathos pretty well. There is also a tonal variation where a different note is used at one point. Very nice.
As Charles Ives said `` beauty in music is too often confused with something that lets the ear lie back in an easy chair.``
DM, I have a great fondness for Vanraj Bhatia as I have for Khayyam.
#49 Posted by dost_mittar on March 24, 2007 6:55:37 am
ZahraJ#46:
This is not among my most favourite songs but it served as an appropriate title for this article as it conveyed its messge very well.
As to why we like melancholy music, ahmedmadani has given a good answer. For a musical answer, go to the following website and click on ``hain sab se madhur voh geet``:
http://www.dishant.com/album/Legend_-_Talat_Mahmood_-_The_Silken_Voice.html
This is not among my most favourite songs but it served as an appropriate title for this article as it conveyed its messge very well.
As to why we like melancholy music, ahmedmadani has given a good answer. For a musical answer, go to the following website and click on ``hain sab se madhur voh geet``:
http://www.dishant.com/album/Legend_-_Talat_Mahmood_-_The_Silken_Voice.html
#54 Posted by swarrier on March 25, 2007 7:50:43 pm
Re: # 51
Ranjit
That is a lovely song. Shivranjani seemed to be a particular favourite of Shankar Jaikishen. Another one I like is from the film Professor, ``Awaaz de ke , humen tum bulao, mohabbat me itna.....
A couple of my favourites are by Lata , ``Khabar mori na leeni, bahut din beete`` LP and Bharat Vyas joining up in Sant Gyaneshwar, and ``Agar tum ho saagar , main pyaasi nadi hoon``, Jaidev and Naqsh Lyallpuri in Tumhare Liye.
Bahadur Shah Zafar`s ``Na kisi ki aankh , ka noor hoon`` in Lal Qila too.
Ranjit
That is a lovely song. Shivranjani seemed to be a particular favourite of Shankar Jaikishen. Another one I like is from the film Professor, ``Awaaz de ke , humen tum bulao, mohabbat me itna.....
A couple of my favourites are by Lata , ``Khabar mori na leeni, bahut din beete`` LP and Bharat Vyas joining up in Sant Gyaneshwar, and ``Agar tum ho saagar , main pyaasi nadi hoon``, Jaidev and Naqsh Lyallpuri in Tumhare Liye.
Bahadur Shah Zafar`s ``Na kisi ki aankh , ka noor hoon`` in Lal Qila too.
#51 Posted by Ranjit on March 24, 2007 4:15:58 pm
Re:swarrier#50
Speaking of Raag Shivranjani, the Kishore song ``Mere Naina Sawan Bhado`` is also in Shivranjani. Awesome raag!!
Speaking of Raag Shivranjani, the Kishore song ``Mere Naina Sawan Bhado`` is also in Shivranjani. Awesome raag!!
#52 Posted by HN on March 25, 2007 8:46:58 am
DM,Warrier et all,
It is great to read this article for its nostalgia, above all else. Somewhere there was a mention of Gulzar, who I think was the last of the Mohicans in terms of the great migration of Urdu poets to Bollywood in the forties/fifties.
Also, while Sahir, Majrooh, Kaifi, Shakeel and Hasrat have got their due, I personally think Gulzar is often erroneously considered a lightweight. My personal take is that while the entire horde of Urdu poets who moved to Bollywood enriched Hindi lyrics at the cost of Urdu poetry, Gulzar alone has outlived them, literally and figuratively.
His being alive and kicking is perhaps out of tune with nostalgic eulogy. But, strictly from a poetic sensibility, I think Gulzar is the most modern, most “grown” lyricist in Hindi films straddling at least two distinct eras of Hindi music.
This is a personal take, but perhaps worth pondering over. Urdu poetry got stuck in romantic phase for so long that it got pickled in it. Its only organic growth after that was in the leftist/socialist/humanistic political poetry. I am here of course speaking of only popular culture.
Gulzar has singlehandedly scraped political paint off Urdu poetry and actually gone on and done things with the language that is still very unpalatable to the purists. The man who started out with mera gora ang laile has also penned hits that can never be connected to him. Think of Goli maar bheje mein in Satya, And yet, in Dil Se he came out with that most brilliant line….jis ki zubaan Urdu ki tarah.
He also used his poetry for unromantic/anti-romantic lyrics like dil vil pyaar vyaar mein kya janoon re…and…tujhe ho na ho mujh ko to itnaa yakeeN hai….mujhe pyaar tumse nahi hai nahi hai…. His romantic poetry is a rich vein of Hindi lyrics through out his career. But those haunting Yaara silli sili…an occasional Beedi Jalaai le jigar se piya…and then that sensuousness of …. Ek so solah chand ki rateiN aur tumhare kaanDhe ka til….and Raah pe rehteiN haiN, yaadoN mein basar kar teiN hai…it takes a lot of maturity to fill out the sheer emptiness of a truck driver….
As regards his lyrics beating the easy metric rhyming scheme…again I think it is what underlines the man’s changing…and growing as a lyricist/poet. I remember reading how R D Burman, a duh with Urdu…and perhaps not really a great Hindi scholar either…saying to Gulzar that he cut the articles of Times of India into some sort of lines…and asked him to put it to tune. That RD’s genius combined with Gulzar’s so well and is now lost….is something Hindi films will always miss. Vishal Bharadwaj is of course a promising talent with the same sensibility.
And let’s not even attempt to put Javed Akhtar in the same bracket as Gulzar…please. Not that anyone has done it so far…but this is just a preemptive statement to cease and desist.
HN
It is great to read this article for its nostalgia, above all else. Somewhere there was a mention of Gulzar, who I think was the last of the Mohicans in terms of the great migration of Urdu poets to Bollywood in the forties/fifties.
Also, while Sahir, Majrooh, Kaifi, Shakeel and Hasrat have got their due, I personally think Gulzar is often erroneously considered a lightweight. My personal take is that while the entire horde of Urdu poets who moved to Bollywood enriched Hindi lyrics at the cost of Urdu poetry, Gulzar alone has outlived them, literally and figuratively.
His being alive and kicking is perhaps out of tune with nostalgic eulogy. But, strictly from a poetic sensibility, I think Gulzar is the most modern, most “grown” lyricist in Hindi films straddling at least two distinct eras of Hindi music.
This is a personal take, but perhaps worth pondering over. Urdu poetry got stuck in romantic phase for so long that it got pickled in it. Its only organic growth after that was in the leftist/socialist/humanistic political poetry. I am here of course speaking of only popular culture.
Gulzar has singlehandedly scraped political paint off Urdu poetry and actually gone on and done things with the language that is still very unpalatable to the purists. The man who started out with mera gora ang laile has also penned hits that can never be connected to him. Think of Goli maar bheje mein in Satya, And yet, in Dil Se he came out with that most brilliant line….jis ki zubaan Urdu ki tarah.
He also used his poetry for unromantic/anti-romantic lyrics like dil vil pyaar vyaar mein kya janoon re…and…tujhe ho na ho mujh ko to itnaa yakeeN hai….mujhe pyaar tumse nahi hai nahi hai…. His romantic poetry is a rich vein of Hindi lyrics through out his career. But those haunting Yaara silli sili…an occasional Beedi Jalaai le jigar se piya…and then that sensuousness of …. Ek so solah chand ki rateiN aur tumhare kaanDhe ka til….and Raah pe rehteiN haiN, yaadoN mein basar kar teiN hai…it takes a lot of maturity to fill out the sheer emptiness of a truck driver….
As regards his lyrics beating the easy metric rhyming scheme…again I think it is what underlines the man’s changing…and growing as a lyricist/poet. I remember reading how R D Burman, a duh with Urdu…and perhaps not really a great Hindi scholar either…saying to Gulzar that he cut the articles of Times of India into some sort of lines…and asked him to put it to tune. That RD’s genius combined with Gulzar’s so well and is now lost….is something Hindi films will always miss. Vishal Bharadwaj is of course a promising talent with the same sensibility.
And let’s not even attempt to put Javed Akhtar in the same bracket as Gulzar…please. Not that anyone has done it so far…but this is just a preemptive statement to cease and desist.
HN
#53 Posted by bjkumar on March 25, 2007 10:53:05 am
#52 HN
[…moved to Bollywood enriched Hindi lyrics at the cost of Urdu poetry]
The implication that poetry – when it gets adapted into a movie song becomes less of poetry is truly mind-boggling.
Write the stuff in Deonagri.
Write the same stuff in the wiggly script.
What’s the difference?! It sounds the same and it feels the same.
BTW, I was concerned that those ``Nagas`` got to you before you could get to ``complete`` their ``story``.
So, when are you going to start EARNING your “featured writer” status again?
#56 Posted by rahul_capri on March 26, 2007 5:04:44 am
``This is a personal take, but perhaps worth pondering over. Urdu poetry got stuck in romantic phase for so long that it got pickled in it. Its only organic growth after that was in the leftist/socialist/humanistic political poetry. I am here of course speaking of only popular culture.``
HN,
Urdu is a language that resists corruption; in this sense it is different from Hindi /English. It requires non trivial education to speak write it correctly;which is probably not different from any other language.But urduwallahs will resist any attempt of cockney Urdu to be included in the literary canon..more vehemently than say,Hindiwallahs.What this does is that it effectively precludes a social class from participating in the literary canon. Even the leftist poetry in Urdu has a romantic /elitist slant to it. Its not ``zameen kii kavita`` a la Nagarjun or Trilochan.
HN,
Urdu is a language that resists corruption; in this sense it is different from Hindi /English. It requires non trivial education to speak write it correctly;which is probably not different from any other language.But urduwallahs will resist any attempt of cockney Urdu to be included in the literary canon..more vehemently than say,Hindiwallahs.What this does is that it effectively precludes a social class from participating in the literary canon. Even the leftist poetry in Urdu has a romantic /elitist slant to it. Its not ``zameen kii kavita`` a la Nagarjun or Trilochan.
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