Pakistans Permanent Revolution

abu (#125),

… in other words, ummah has its head up its rear …
We finally agree on something!

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#126: Urstruly, on dire need for jihad …

”… running brothels … enforcing zina, fornication,adultery in the society … demolition of mosques … murder and disappearance of Muslim(s) … aiding and inviting declared enemies of Islam and Muslims ….…………. armed resistance … becomes inevitable.”

Urstruly, you remain seated in the USA while telling everyone else to fight your useless ideological war.

I understand uninterrupted supply of hot water for $25-a-month is hard to resist. So please spare me your “I got conned into coming to the USA searching of rizq-e-hilal” nonsense. It sounds fake and makes you seem more pathetic.

”… We should be ashamed of ourselves that our sisters have lead the way. …”

Sisters are just as idiotic as rest of the ummah. If anything, YOU should be ashamed of your war-mongering antics followed by pathetic cowardice. Look, even abu_safwaan is abandoning you. It must be getting lonely at the bottom …

Heck, Chinese is gaining in popularity here. First HP bhai, then me :)

Kaalchakra

You are speaking chinese.

Abu

The short answer for you is that it is always one straw that breaks proverbial camel`s back; but pounds and tons keep piling up until that straw comes. Similarly, in Pakistanis society the pounds and tons of corruption, lawlessness, and immorality are piling up and quite unpredicatbly that one proverbial straw will come and break our backs. So that is what is about to happen in Pakistan.

I do not think that there is ever a good or bad timing to raise the voice against the ills in society. The forces of evil and darkness will always ressist. Don`t you see that just on this forum many many are those who take prostitutes and pimps as their role models and promote this inhuman practice of flesh trade as dignified. Do you think they are joking? NO they are trying to infiltrate their ideology into the weak and vulnerable - our children, our less fortunate, and our uneducated. I do not think that societies can be reformed by running popularity contests; someone has to take stand and sacrifices have to be made. Either you are with the change or you are against it. Either you are with the status quo of corruption, lawlessness, and malaise or you are against it. There is always that point in time when you stand up and decide whether this is the time that you have to stand up agaisnt your brother for your ideology. The life of Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) is the example, when that inevitability finally came face to face. Until that time he never appeased the evil and ignorance so why should we.

Don`t look at the black sheeps of MMA. The character of true Ullema-e-Islam has always been stellar throughout the history of subcontinent as far as rising up against evil is concerned. The names of those ulema who stood up against tyrrany shine like stars in a galaxy; be it Mujadid Alif Saani who stood up against the kuffar of Akbar or Shah Waliullah Mohaddis Dehlvi who saved us from becoming extinct in subcontinent; be it the `Wahabi Mutiny` of 1857 or struggle for indepence from British; be it the movement for Khatam-e-Nabwat of 50s and 60s when several ulemma were sentenced with capital punishment or NIzam-e-Mustafa of 1970s. Ulemma have always sacrificed. All the prominent leadership of 1980s have a brother or son who gave his life in Afghanistan to expell Kafirs from there. Did you know that since this dayyuth (pimp) has started ruling this country well over 200 ulema have been assassinated by government agents including the names like Moulana Yousuf Ludhianivi Shaheed and Mufti Nizamuddin Shamzai shaheed. Did you know that today is the first anniversarry of those who were martyred in Nishtar park last year.

Re: # 131

Urstruly Bhai, Aap pata nahii kya tota mayna kii kahaniyann suna rahayy hein. I am well aware of the sacrifices of Mujadad Alf Thani and Shah Wali ullah, with all due respect Jamia Hafsa is not them, they are not even Mufti Nizam Uddin sahab shamzai according to a sheikh of his institution Jamia Banori town Mufti Nazeer Ahmed and Qari Hanif Jalandhiry who is the head of Wifaq-ul-Madaris al arabiya which by the this Jamia Hafsa is affiliated with, both of them have said that Jamia Hafsa is completly out of line. This is not how we do things in Islam. Har kaam karnayy ka ayk tareeqa, ayk zabta hotta hayy. Yeah Khudayi Faujdari ki hamarayy mazhab mein kamazkam ijazat nahi hay. We don`t support people just because they have beards, we support them on merit. We support the oppresors and stand up against aggressors not matter who they are, even if they are related to us and thats a hukum of Prophet (PBUH).

Abbayy Sattariyaa..tujhayy kitnii daffahh samjhaya hayy Islami mamlaatt mein matt koodaa kar....koi indian movie ki, naachh ganayy kii koii baatt horahii hoo too bakwas karliya karr, too orr Islam aysayy hi hein jaysayy hindoo or gosht, smajha baollayy!

Urstruly, Abu

Here is a possible resolution of the small `contradiction` between your arguments, and it would be great to know if ustaad zeemax agrees with it.

``If in any state a Muslim cannot live the life of a true Muslim then he or she has two options: Either leave the country and go where he or she can, or if he or she feels they (can) have the political power to bring their environment in line with Islam, then to take all necessary steps to do so.``

So one can assume that the students now feel they have (gained) the necessary power to make their environment Islamic.

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Naturally, anty shamim, exactly like so many chowkies, would be firmly convinced that she knows her religion more accurately than do the students and the teachers of the religious school, but the latter are unlikely to give anty shamim`s `interpretations` much weight.

[Since it isn`t my area, that`s all I can imagine about this situation. If I am totally far off, please excuse, and continue the discussion.]

so this is what manto`s revolutionized pakiland looks like...

Pakistani Taliban blow up video shops

PESHAWAR, Pakistan (AFP) - Local Taliban militants seeking to impose Islamic law blew up two video shops and torched a cable television operator`s office in northwestern Pakistan, officials said Friday.

There were no casualties in the blasts which happened late Thursday in Kohat, a town close to Pakistan`s troubled tribal regions bordering Afghanistan.

The attackers forced people out of the local office of World Cable 2000 and sprinkled kerosene over it before setting it on fire, the officials said.

Later they detonated crudely-made bombs at the video shops, which were empty at the time. Both shops were badly damaged.

Residents said the attacks followed threats to the owners to shut down their business because they were un-Islamic.

Northwestern Pakistan has seen previous attacks on video and music shops blamed on extremists emulating the ultra-orthodox Taliban, who ruled Afghanistan from 1996 to 2001.

A homemade bomb in a market in the main northwestern city of Peshawar on March 18 damaged four music and video shops weeks after their owners refused an order to close down from Islamic hardliners.

There has been growing concern about the ``Talibanisation`` of Pakistan, with heavy fighting in the tribal areas and another northwestern town under curfew for the last three days following clashes between militants and security forces.

#126 by Urstruly on March 30, 2007 11:33am PT


enforcing zina, fornication, and adultery in the society


Pakiland: Las Vegas on the indus..

p.s. people like maulana urstruly are ok with enforcing fornication when it`s with allah`s promised 72 virgins....

Ohh bhaii yeah logg kaunsi dunya mein rehtayy hein..Do we have any lineage or historical evidence that Prophet (PBUH) or the Sahaba (RAW) or tabayeen (ist generation) or taba-tabayeen (2nd generation) or the numerous classical scholars of the past have taken the law in their own hand and became the prosecutor, police and judge at the same time, or did they not encounter such matters in their life-span? Last I checked Muslims have to follow the law of the land, even if police is not doing its job, then how is 2 wrongs going to make anything better? Is prostitution a new phenomenon that Jamia Hafsa recently found out about? There are brothels all over the country even in the constituencies where MMA is alive and thriving, Itna hi qalq thaa agar mashrayy ki bayrahrawi ka too daytayy istayfay, bakwasein karaloo bitha karr, awam ko peenayy ka saaff panii mayasar nahii hay khud kha khaa karr soaar horahay hein, or siyasat karnii hay in baton parr kayy kaun kiskay saath soraha hay, khuda ka naam loo bhaii mulk mein aag lagii hoii hay aapkoo cheyr-qaniyan soojh rahii hein, mazaq banaya hoa hay nabi (SAW) kay deen koo.

Re: # 125

MMA neither has conviction nor balls to stand up against the tyrrant despot. They are sirkari moulvis who enforce the agenda of the corrupt ruling elite from which they belong to. That is the reason no sirkari moulvi has even touched the issue of Jamia Hafsa and demolition of several mosques in Islamabad (not to mention the resignations on various issues). They in fact have made a concerted effort to distance themselves from the whole debacle. I think Jamia Hafsa and Moulvi Abdul Rashid Ghazi Sahib are a new phenomenon, which indicates the nature of things in the making.

As far as issue of law of land is concerned, a Muslim is only required to obey it as long as it does not forces him to go astray from the righteous path of God; if it does, a Mulsim is not required to even obey his parents.

I think running brothels in a Muslim country under protection of laws (the newly ammended Hadud law), enforcing zina, fornication, and adultery in the society thru media and law (again newly ammended Hadud); demolition of mosques and religious schools, murder and disapperance of Muslim citizens; aiding and inviting declared enemies of Islam and Muslims to come into country and masacare them or kidnap them; abolishing the constitution of Islamic Republic all fall into that category where an armed resistance against corrupt ruling elite becomes inevitable. We should be ashamed of ourselves that our sisters have lead the way.

Re: # 126
ohh bhai..my question is that is this the first time in history that all this ill is happenig? Has there ever been an armed resistance by our scholars when there rulers were corrupt or inept, how are we suppose to bring about change? Is this what you call an ``ARMED RESISTANCE`` anyway? Forget about photops and making brownie-points, but do you really feel they have any public sympathy on their side and keep in mind that public is the same religion as them? How come they only select superficial matters to get all riled up, they very well could have used ``GANG_RAPES`` of innocent women as a catalyst, or the fact that the property of yateems and widowed are being snatched right and left, why is it that they never come in action for the issues of common folk, its always for matters like, female faces on hoardinhgs, music in busses and other crap like that. My humble opinion is that they haven`t been taught the humanity of Islam and they have no idea what kind of unprecedented focus Prophet (PBUH) had for the rights of oppressed. Their timing, the issues that they get exvited about and their priorities are completly messed up. That`s my humble opinion.

#118 by Mantolives on March 30, 2007 9:21am PT


Pakistan Movement was based on equality fraternity and justice for all people.


Does this extend to the hundreds of thousands of bengalis killed in 71..without anyone being prosecuted for it, I might add...

#118 The “Living” Manto

I wonder whose words carry more clout in the ISLAMIC republic of Pakistan!

The Mushy’s (from 2002) or the Manto’s?!

Tough call – at least for one microsecond!

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Pakistan `not meant to be secular`

By the BBC`s Zaffar Abbas in Lahore
Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf has said Pakistan was meant to be an Islamic republic and is certainly not a secular state.

Talking to the BBC after visiting two relatively moderate madrassahs or Islamic schools in Lahore, he said his recent actions were aimed at eliminating Islamic extremism from the country.

He said he was in no way opposed to religious teaching or practices in the country.

The two Islamic schools that President Musharraf visited during his day-long trip to Lahore are quite different from hundreds of other such institutions which propagate religious orthodoxy or extremism.

In these two madrassahs, several thousand students are not only taught to read the Koran in a traditional way, they are even offered courses in modern sciences and computer technology.

President Musharraf was visibly impressed and said this is how religious schools should function in a progressive Islamic state.

Differing interpretations

``No-one should even think this is a secular state. It was founded as the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, but the interpretation of this Islamic Republic of Pakistan which I differ with is that which tends to take it as a theological, theocratic state, and that is where I differ,`` the general said.

President Musharraf said his campaign against the groups and institutions that spread religious extremism and violence will continue as there was no room for such activities in a moderate Islamic country.

The recent move by the general to ban five militant groups and to arrest hundreds of their supporters has been widely praised by the United States and many other countries.

But some critics at home say his actions were mostly aimed at pleasing the outside world.

His latest move to draw a clear distinction between the moderate Islamic madrassahs and those spreading extremism is perhaps to show that he was not insensitive to the local religious practices and is not planning to make Pakistan a secular state.

GunahoN se toba nahiN ki - Aunti Shammim

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This quote is precious. I think this lady is standing up firmer than the ousted CJ.:-)

zeemax: the real issue is apparent from the fact that auntie shamim has replaced uncle CJ in the spotlight. in other words, trivial (aka mullah) issues have taken over the real issue - the Rule of Law vs the Rule of the Generals.

#119

``I write simplified Chinese still 95% can follow it here. ``

That was ``95% cannot follow it here...``

#90 by masadi

“Regarding HP giving an independant role to the Islamists within the Pak Army in determining affairs, I disagree,”

Asadi, Aqalmund ra ishara kaafi ast.

I write simplified Chinese still 95% can follow it here.

I know who the real actors are and what game is being played out. They have been using the same book for years now.


PS. If you are in Lahore, why dont you hook up with Yasser sometime?