Pakistans Permanent Revolution

#160 by abu_safwaan

Please don`t allow mirzaees to distract you from the subject at hand.

... not pointing to tahmed but the subject was started by sattar2.

Re: # 162

Sattar ayk badboo tii tarah hay..bin bullaey aata hayy, mahaul kharab karta orr daffah hojata hay..magarr hayy bayzarar..badboo ki tarah. Tahmed sahab nayy poochhaa n i obliged.

zeemax #: can you explain what is islamic about barging into someone`s and dragging two women out, locking them up and threatening them.......on top of that, declaring them guilty on one`s own........

do you think a large mob of people (men or women) should have the authority to:

- declare anyone guilty of prositution
- barge into someone`s house
- kidnap the women of the house

would either you or urstruly or anyone be offended if a mob of individuals carried out something similar in your house........i certainly would be and would not want anyone to have the right to do so.......

Re: # 164
That activity was against law. The law enforcers were helpless for many reasons. Girl student organization as last resort took law in had to stopped illeagal activities and immoral behaviour of people and nation should thank them.

ahmedmadani

The students took the steps at the request of neighbors. One can assume that the neighbors approached the police before reaching out to the students.

ylh
it`s probably true that there is a procedural problem in making justice chaudhary (name of jeetendra film from `80s) non-functional.
but what if the sjc decides that the two charges against him stick?
i think an author who sets out the position that:
- pakistan`s judiciary has always compromised with the army
- justice chaudhary is brave
- justice bhagwandas has impeccable integrity
will be disappointed by the sjc and bhagwandas should they take a legalistic view and uphold the reference.

secondly, ``The only election religious parties won any seats in was held under the enlightened moderate Pervez Musharraf himself`` is untrue. fazlur rehman`s daddy mufti mahmud was primary opponent of zab.
i think jamiat ul ulema i islam is now permanent entity in pakistan politics (because of pushtun nationalism, however, not islamism, though i`m not sure how the two separate where the jui holds power).
the modernist islamists under maudoodi/qazi sahib never won much; but ``never won any`` is clearly untrue.

thirdly, ``secular and mainstream parties like PPP and PML`` is true only if 15th amendment (amr bin ma`aroof nahi anil munkar) of sharif and 2nd amendment to 1973 constitution (qadianis declared non-muslim) tabled by zab are secular acts. and i think the ppp can never rescind from that act of bigotry. i asked sherry rehman what she thought of that and she asked me to switch my recorder off.
there are no secular parties in pakistan with the (possible) exception of the bhaiyya-biharis of the mqm.

thirdly, ``I am convinced that in his heart of hearts, he is a true patriot and a good man`` is a banal observation.

fourthly, ``he must restore chief justice`` is not possible (unless you`re saying that sjc under good and honourable hindu is pliant -- is it?). matter, as we say in india ALL the time, is sub-judice.

fifthly, ``honourably leave the office of president``? what`re you smoking, man? gimme some of that good stuff!
people in power are convinced they`re doing the right thing for awam, esp faujis. ayub had to be pushed aside by yahya; yahya thought he would remain president after december 1971 (and zab was terrified of him ever after the war); zia had no plan of leaving; what makes musharraf different? the fact that he`s a ``true patriot`` who has a ``heart of hearts`` (yuck) no doubt.

baqi sub fit?
where are temporal and the other pehelwans?
aakar

#164 by bulleya,

Your question pertains to two issues:

1) Whether it is Islamic and ;

2) Whether anyone has the right to do so.

Though there`s a misstatement on your part that ``declare anyone guilty of prositution``. They didn`t do that. It was widely known and many complaints had been lodged. But that`s not the issue.

Re (1) Yes. It is Islamic. There`s a protection of Chaddar and Chardiwari in Islam and one can do anything within the confines of their own four walls as long as it does not disturb others in the community. There`s the episode to cite in this regard of the governor of Yemen during Umar`s time when this principle as well as the four witnesses rule was enforced.

Re (2) Yes. Anyone has a right to rebel if their rights are being plundered and the only recourse is to fight. Please take account of my previous posts where I`ve repeatedly said the attack on aunty shamim`s prostitution den is just a symbol to declare war against the illegitimate military rule and to challenge the government writ.

Again, as I`ve said before, the girls` argument is simple. If musharraf can trample upon all laws to gain and stay in power, then so can they. There`s actually no law in any country once the constitution is abrogated, which is practically the case in Pakistan after the CJ incident.

There is no moral issue in this. The morality in-fact stands suspended for all.

#166 by kaalchakra,

Pls see #148 for the press report in this regard.

The West`s peon (Tahmed) states <<< my point is very simple: religion is about belief. a belief by definition is something that cannot be proved >>>

My “dear” (actually much hated) ignorant chowk acquaintance. You define religion based on your own preference, most certainly the ``Western/secular`` preference, then you define belief based on the same preference and then you make a nonsensical conclusion based on stereotype. Now, what is missing from all this BS analysis of pseudo-enlightenment is the fact that when you conclude that there are competing ways, other than science, of acquiring true knowledge, you are actually diminishing its role as the ONLY valid source of acquiring truth. Otherwise my “dear” ignorant acquaintance, how is your belief in Allah truer than someone else`s belief in the ``rat god``- go ahead explain it to me and then when you try to use symbols to which you have given meaning, i.e. language and connect them logically to explain it to me, let me stop you right there and tell you that you are using part of the scientific methodology. The Quran is not about unreasoned dos and don`ts it is about REASON more so than anything else, comprendey??? Of course not because your professed ``belief`` in the Quran is just a cover for your real ``belief`` and that is your unconditional love for the white man and his system of oppression

Re: # 165 mad-ani
[...nation should thank them...]

No wonder you pakis are so f***ed up :)

Re: # 152

Dude, the expressed intent of these female zealots is to become mothers of future taliban... taliban movement seems to be a step ahead, they are looking at the future and preparing the ground for massive breeding of their progenies to bulk up their numbers... it`s a solid plan...

You pakis are screw@ed.... :)

Mushy, bombastic as he is, cannot hold off the onslaught from islamic folks... it`s only a matter of time...

When educated folks like madani and zeemax and others have started supporting re-vised taliban movement, complete with female breeders to ensure constant supply of foot soldiers, the game is already lost...

Get out of pakiland, if you can, YLH... don`t get too excited about ``revolutions``... the only revolution possible in pakiland is the islamic kind... the ball is already rolling in that direction...

#173 by mohar11 on March 31, 2007 9:59am PT


When educated folks like madani and zeemax and others have started supporting


When did they stop supporting the taliban...post 9/11, they were afraid more of lynndie than allah..which is why their love for islamofascism went in the closet for the a brief period...and for brit-pakis like welfare queen, not even that...

I wonder what the new taliban will do to manto`s ahmedi ass...i`m sure his dad`s maybach(cough cough) will be the first to go...

#166 by kaalchakra on March 31, 2007 9:03am PT
{``ahmedmadani
The students took the steps at the request of neighbors. One can assume that the neighbors approached the police before reaching out to the students.``}

Kaal Bhai,
Good point. Also, please consider the fact that in the US, the world`s second largest democracy, right-wing vigilantes have disrupted, bombed, and killed activities and health professional in abortion clinics. And, these are legal ones. I don`t think that brothels are legal in Islamabad - or for that matter in Lahore.

I don`t support the right-wing fundo whackos, but the activism demonstrated by the female students may have some justification. I wish the police had done their job in the first place. If brick throwing lawyers can be defended, I guess sugarcane swinging burqacrats have their place in Paki society too. :)

Salim bro, right next door, Valentine Day shops are disrupted, thousands of bargirls (not prostitutes) are arbitrarily thrown out of work, and sex education is put on hold. Even in the states members of the public proactively oppose suspected dens of prostitution. And neither of these societies even have any clear moral goals.