Pakistans Permanent Revolution

Re: # 160

Are you aware of the fact that the 34000 converst to Islam are largely from the prison population and other backward, disaffected groups? John Walker Lindh, the convert associated witht he 7/7 bombing. Same thin in Europe. Islam does not inspire the best and brightest to come into their folds whether it is from Asia, Europe or the States. Reading your posts its is abundantly clear as to why that is. Spare me the usual spewing of hatred.

Re: # 170

The ``white mans`` system of oppression? Who are you kidding? Do you think Arab imperialism was so enlightened and progessive? How about the wonderful Ottoman empire where the consorts of the rulers were abducted women, ever heard of the Janisseries? Sick concept of orphaned christian boys militarized and taught to hate and become a merciless fighting machine (aka Taliban). Or how about those Arabs, only got around to making slavery illegal in 1976. Or the wonderful caste/apartheid system...is that the white man`s doing? Or how about the rape of Nanking by the Japanese?

Please wake up take you head out of the sands of Arabia and see the world for what is is.
Today a muslims is most likely oppressed/killed/persecuted by another MUSLIM than by a white man, Indian or jew. Until this fact is accpeted, digested and some reform in the backward, closeminded, intolerant Islamic world occurs the Muslim community has nowhere to go but down. I see very few people on this site who understand the urgency of this problem , they just utter empty phrases for the Ummah etc... Urstruly, Tahmed, Zeemax being the worst malefactors.

Re: # 177
Eastmmwest Pulthariparankuljaranpulyalam

I think i have told u before that pre-requisite for induging me in a serious conversation is the ability to enjoy a hamburgre w/out a guilty consience. I also refuse to engage in thelogical matters with a people who revere monkey and cow-piss as holy. do tell us more about the art of fryingg doughnuts, science of cleanin motels and the wisdom behind the bycott of deodrant

@masadi
[The Quran is not about unreasoned dos and don`ts it is about REASON more so than anything else, comprendey??? Of course not because your professed ``belief`` in the Quran is just a cover for your real ``belief`` and that is your unconditional love for the white man and his system of oppression]

Traditionalism is of two kinds, deliberate traditionalism and unconscious traditionalism. Deliberate traditionalism is a set of rules, customs and traditions made by people for the benefit of the individual and the society with conscious effort and the application of our reasoning faculties. Unconscious traditionalism, on the other hand, is something which creeps into our minds unconsciously and sometimes we are not even aware of it, but it shapes our ideas and ways of thinking.

I consider religion to be a “reformed tradition”. In the 7th century Islam was a step forward from the primitive nomadic culture of Arabia. It united Arabia under one leadership and made it a force to reckon with. Because of this unity Arabs were able to conquer half the world. It gave women their rights. Though slavery was not abolished because it was impossible to do that at that time but the slave owners were ordered to take good care of their slaves and it was considered a virtuous act to liberate slaves. Certain rights were guaranteed to the minorities in an Islamic state. Islam even managed to prohibit gambling, prostitution and liquor which are always and everywhere regarded as immoral and a social nuisance. These were the examples of deliberate traditionalism. A set of laws, customs and moral values which were made for the good of an individual and the society.

But today we live in 21st century. 1500 years have elapsed since the establishment of the first Islamic state in Medina. The society, politics and economy of today’s nation state is much more complex than those simpler times. We cannot find the solutions to all our problems in the Sharia. Neither can we interpret and apply Islamic laws without going into their merits and demerits and using our reasoning faculties. Though Sharia are a set of deliberate traditions but even deliberate traditions are time bound. What holds good today may not hold good for all times and ages.

For example Islam liberated and emancipated women from the primitive tribal customs of Arabia and though it allowed polygamy but discouraged it. Today we cannot allow a male member of the society to have more than one wives because it will be unfair to more than half the population of the world. Similarly today we believe in secularism and the rights of the minorities. We cannot discriminate on the basis of caste, creed and religion. All citizens of a modern nation state must have equal rights and equal opportunities irrespective of their beliefs and religions. By applying our reasoning faculties and the golden rule “do unto others as you have them do unto you” it becomes clear that if you don’t want to get persecuted yourself or the people who hold views similar to your own in a society where they are in a minority then you must not force your views on others who hold opposite or dissimilar views in a society where you are in a majority. This is the essence of secularism. You can persuade people to adopt your views but you can not force people for this purpose.

Finally, I don’t have “an unconditional love for white man and his system of oppression”. The West is facing its own dilemma in the form of disintegration of the institution of family and social and moral evils like drugs, alcoholism, prostitution and pornography. Here in the East we respect our elders and sons continue to live with their parents even after getting married. They donot send their parents to Old Houses when they grow old instead they take care of them. I am not advocating that prostitution and alcohol should be legalized. Not because my faith dictates so. But because I know by using my reasoning faculties that prostitution, pornography, drugs and alcohol are bad for an individual and the society.

Society is in a state of evolution. We have not reached a state of perfection yet and we may never reach that stage. But this doesnot means that we should take a retrogressive stance. We should adopt what is best in time tested traditionalism and also what is good in modernism by applying our reasoning faculties.

Re: # 179

Thank you for displaying your limited intellectual faculties for eveyone to see.

Fortunately the likes of gazankahn give all people hope that reason and basic human decency triumph over blind adherence to dogma. Those limited IQ ``rejects`` who couldn`t cut it in more competitive societies like Abu need to hide behind their mom`s burqas.

Abu,

It is remarkable that you insist I am a hindu, which I am not, not that there is anythting wrong with that. The funny thing is that you slander, resort to name calling and insults but people like you freak out when other`s do that to Muslims. Typical hypocrisy and pitiful ghetto mentality that is suprsingly similar to other disenfranchised and usually hopeless groups.

Re: # 164 bulleya

I firmly believe that what ails pakistan cannot be cured with democracy or through education and ``Talqeen``. The time has passed for that. The corrupt ruling elite had time for a magna carta but now that time is lost and they know that too. Second time in the history of Pakistan the oppressive corrupt class has crossed the limit and now they have no regard for a life of Pakistani citizen. Even schoolchildren are not spared and are masacared through laser guided missiles. First time the got away with the genocide of East Pakistanis and lost half the country with impunity and this time they shouldn`t. Enough is enough. Lets accept the fact that Pakistan is a failed state and by supporting oppressive corrupt class we are only prolonging our own missery. State apparatus has failed; institutions have failed; and society is on the verge of collapse. I personally do not like anarchy such that of students of Jamia Hafsa, but what they did was not the disease but a symptom of larger malfeasance in society. But I would rather support the doers and rebels rather than those who deliver surmons to protect status quo.

Establish Nizam-e-Mustafa by Friday, March 9, or Else

- Moulana Abdul Aziz of Lal Masjid Islamabad