Pakistans Permanent Revolution

HP: you write: ``There are no innocent upholders of Justice in Pakistan. Everyone has an axe to grind. ``

I think you are being unduly cynical - what about the high court judges who resigned in protest? what about the hundreds of lawyers who took to the streets? the journalists? The one`s who shed blood? and the fact is that the issue of disappearances was never raised in Pakistan in the past, and it is only in recent months that you see this question coming out in newspapers.

If you must get mad - why not get mad at the deserving cases? the mullahs and their burqa clad goats, e.g.? :-)

stuka #: ..To answer your question: The text below the picture states, in Urdu, ``Students of Lal Masjid are taking a member of the Police Force, as a hostage.``

I am not quite sure how it is assumed that the poor guy is a member of the police force. The second one states, ``Female students of Jami-a-Hafsa have gathered in the Lal Masjid Chowk to demand their rights.`` These female students recently broke into someone house and kidnapped a lady, her daughter-in-law and a small child. The lady has claimed that they tied her up with rope and dragged her. The female students have claimed that the lady ran a brothel, which is why they raided the house. Thereby declaring the lady guilty.

Much like Musharraf declared the CJ guilty before a trial, and locked him up.

However, my guess is that if all these ladies (and men) were given an option to migrate to the USA and settle down there, they would utilize the option. I know of a few individual(s), who are their supporter(s) who have utlized this option, and are comfortably settled in the USA.

#54

Dear Mr. Urstruly, sir,

Forgive me for asking this simplistic question but in view of the fact that the individuals in #54 are covered from their head to toe, what makes you so sure of their gender?

hamidm #63 There is I agree no excuse for allowing such lawlessness - whereby a mob can drag someone out of her house and publicly humiliate her. Whether she is or is not she is what the maulvis claim is totally irrelevant. In the eyes of the law in any civilized country, she is the victim, and the perpetrators who kidnapped her are the criminals. What signal does this miserable episode send to the maulvi?

There is perhaps a method to this madness, whereby the CJ is sacked on a flimsy excuse while this open humiliation of an individual in Pakistan without any due process of law is permitted to continue......

#49 by malik99 on March 29, 2007 1:57pm PT


Its a slave mentality to call an election ``free`` when it brings your favorite party(s) to power and when it is acceptable in the West.


How is that any worse than standing by idly while a foreign government bombs your citizens on your soil?

#46 by HP on March 29, 2007 11:59am PT


The current movement in Pakistan, if persisted with, would eventually fall into the Islamists hands and that means a new General in another coup with Islamist support to promote the Islamist agenda which would destroy Pakistan for good.


The Islamists who were the allies of the paki army when they were providing the jihadi cannon fodder for your wet dreams of kashmir banega pakistan or strategic depth?

Cool...

In reality, the paki army cares more about moolah than allah...One threat from Uncle Sam to bomb you to the stone age and the paki army will be duking it out with their former allies...the chances of the paki army doing anything that would require them to get their hands out of the paki till can be safely ruled out...

arjun: which foreign government is bombing citizens in pakistan? are you seriously mad, or merely trying to be cleverer than you are?

Re: # 71

BJ mian,

How many times will you try and convince yourself that the earth is flat. The impartial history of the subcontinent and partition has been written... in your country which blows to bits such fantastic mythological BS that you claim... It is because you are so incapable of understanding history and its forces... that you perpetuate the hatred one feels for people like you.

Secularism ... true secularism .... not the sham Indian variety where 3000 people are killed in a single day for being Muslim in 2002... and where Australian priests are burnt alive with their sons for being Christian.... was killed in the subcontinent when the racist casteist hindu freak Gandhi declared ``I am a Hindu first and therefore a true Indian`` and when he made calls for Ram Rajya... On the contrary Jinnah- who you try so hard to malign without evidence... NEVER made any such claim. He infact tried to convince Gandhi that it was important to an indian first and then a Hindu or a Muslim... but Gandhi didn`t get it.
Pakistan Movement was based on equality fraternity and justice for all people... these were the principles that created Pakistan.... And let me relieve you of another notion that you seem to entertain... the only reason why India is even secular in name- has NOTHING to with the racist casteist fascist bigot Gandhi... but Dr. Ambedkar ... who hated Gandhi with a passion that dwarfs my own... and who was a Jinnah ally ... not a Gandhi ally.

Now... this discussion is NOT about partition or your delusions about it. It is NOT about the half naked exclusivist casteist racist fascist bigot Gandhi either.... so please take your nonsense elsewhere.

#25 Yasser

Manto my sweetheart,

As usual you subject us to a verbal deluge without answering any of the issues I raised in #5. The reason you do not answer is because the stark truth stings.

Here is my take:

All your lawyerspeak notwithstanding, Pakistan is not secular. It never was secular. Secularism was not the basis for its founding! It is an ISLAMIC republic, therefore - by definition - it is NOT secular.

In a secular republic, Muslims would not be treated as superior to non-Muslims. That was the very reason to carve your rump country because had that not been done then one Muslim would only count equal to one Hindu and equal to one Parsee and equal to one Sikh and equal to one Christian, and so forth – and that simple fact of math was unpalatable to that black-coat bigot who would die of TB – and who is probably up there somewhere in spirit, enjoying leisurely the fruits of his own seed and perhaps getting his daily climax!

Jinnah killed the root of secularism in that part of the land. The branch was still alive in 1947 – because it was yanked off a larger tree – but it was only a matter of time before it died out.

The khakis only completed the chain that Jinnah himself initiated!

Because...

Brute force, and brute force aplenty, was used to wrest that piece of land.

It does not matter what it says on paper and it does not matter what happens in isolated instances and it does not matter who your acting CJ is and how good of an actor he is! Legal decrees in Pakistan are worthless because Jinnah was the one who ORIGINALLY legitimized the use of brute force – the khakis have only completed the process since – in fits and starts at first and then whole-heartedly, by dropping all pretenses and grabbing power openly and keeping it openly!

And Pakistan is not secular! Because...

In a non-secular country, minorities get chased away or get outright killed – as happened to the Hindus and the Sikhs and the Christians of Pakistan! The minorities leave in a non-secular country because of very simple reasons - because they fear for their lives. It happened in Pakistan for decades and then, thanks to Pakistan – that endless cycle was repeated in the Valley of Kashmir from where the small minority of Kashmiri Pandits was chased away! And gutless lawyers like you sing the praises of those killers elsewhere - hoping that, if you sing the praises of those killers enough, they will spare YOU and only hurt ``others``!

In a secular country, minorities do not leave – they stay put – as they did in India!

It was your misfortune that you were born on the wrong side of the border and were born a minority!

prophet tahmed: The US government owns mushy`s ass but the US is still a foreign government and when it bombs damadola and other places, that still counts as a foreign govt bombing paki citizens on paki soil...

Re: # 74
The second (non-working) link is http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article788673.ece
From the UK Times

Re: # 73 Tahmed32
``...The US denies that it bombed damadola or any other place inside Pakistan. ...``

Perhaps, this will be somewhat convincing. If you don`t trust Wikipedia, then you may trust this article in the UK Times more. By the way, do you have any reference to the effect that `US denied bombing Damadola`? I don`t recall reading one. The less said about your (Pakistani) government`s truthfulness, the better.
CIAO

#72 arjun: The US denies that it bombed damadola or any other place inside Pakistan. The Pakistan government also says that no foreign forces are operating inside Pakistan.

So, you are saying that:

1. the US government is lying;
2. the Pakistan overnment is lying;
3. you know the truth sitting half-way around the world.

This is mere crap.

But wait, there is more from the IT genius...those targetted by these various armies (the Pakistan army inside Pakistan, the NATO/US military in Afghanistan) are not ordinary Pakistani citizens. Only a totally insane individual would think that these militaries are aiming for ordinary citizens in Pakistan. So, you are either totally insane, or else utterly stupid. Like I said.

Pepe le pew:#74 Do they produce specimen like you and arjun in special labs in India? or do you grow wild?

further to #75: what part of ``.those targetted by these various armies (the Pakistan army inside Pakistan, the NATO/US military in Afghanistan) are not ordinary Pakistani citizens`` do you have trouble understanding?

Re: # 78 Self Righteous Tahmed32
``...answer my question in #76...``
Yesss, Sirr! Will kick your behind in doing so as well! OKKAY SIRR??

How should I tear you(r argument) to pieces? Delicately, or frontally?

Let us see: what part of this situation are you disputing? Your enraged response does not afford me that clarity. Are you disputing that: a) innocents were killed? or b) the US never attacked? or c) both?

Regarding a) let us first go with what your honorable Information Minister Sheikh Rashid Ahmed told a news conference after the incident, `We deeply regret that civilian lives have been lost in an incident`. Not wanting to believe your Information minister`s information (don`t blame you there)? Well, how about Senator John McCain`s statement, `It`s terrible when innocent people are killed; we regret that``. However, Sen. John McCain and other lawmakers defended the Damadola action. ``We have to do what we think is necessary to take out al Qaeda, particularly the top operatives. This guy [al-Zawahiri] has been more visible than Osama bin Laden lately,`` McCain told CBS` ``Face the Nation.``

Which brings me to (b), namely US involvement. If Senator McCain`s statement was not an admission of culpability, then how about Senator Evan Bayh? Senator Evan Bayh blamed the Pakistani government for being unable to control the frontier, rhetorically asking ``Now, it`s a regrettable situation, but what else are we supposed to do? It`s like the Wild, Wild West out there. The Pakistani border (with Afghanistan) is a real problem.``

Heck, there is even a Christian religious minister calling the airstrike inhuman. (Not that I agree with him).

You figure out if I was delicate? or frontal?

CIAO