Pakistans Permanent Revolution

#77 answer my question in #76

This one is for Nasah Sahib (who thinks that GWB is less than funny) yet highly relevant to this board.

Here is an excerpt from an account of GWB appearance at the annual Radio and Television Correspondents` dinner in Washington, D.C. a few days ago.

``On the controversy over the Justice Department’s firing of eight federal prosecutors, Bush said: “I have to admit we really blew the way we let those attorneys go. You know you’ve botched it when people sympathize with lawyers.” ``

mmmkay prophet tahmed...perhaps in your alternate reality it wasn`t the USAF/CIA that bombed the madrassah and the other places..

The rest of us prefer to deal with reality..

tahmed mian,

......... i think you pay too much attention to pepe le pew and arjun mian - much like our own urstruly and maulana zeemax these two obviously get their jollies by rolling around in their own feces ........... personally i would like to convert the jamia hafsa into a brothel, but if we can`t do that i wouldn`t mind buring them alive like those wackos in waco ........ maybe we can hire janet reno to do the job ..............

arjun #80 see #76, then come talk to me about reality.

hamidm: I admit it...I came to the internet to pull out a tax schedule, and decided to say hello to master arjun whom i saw...er...rolling around...as you put it. :-)

{``Expect a PPP government headed by Benazir or in the interim period one of her close aides till she is able to return and get elected to the National Assembly. ``}

Manto Bhai,
Khuda Na Khwasta
Khamkhwa men itna achcha article aap ne kharaab kardiya.

Well-written and nicely presented - although I disagree with several points. I think you will understand in a few days.
Thanks,
Salim

HAHA...the policy of using islamic fundamentalism/terrorism as a tool of state policy has now officially bitten pakiland in the rear..

Who will fight this Talibanisation?
The events of recent days in the NWFP town of Tank and in Islamabad should shatter the assessment of all those policymakers, government functionaries and members of civil society who thought that Talibanisation was a feature only of FATA or some other remote and backward area of the country. Tank, which is now under curfew, and where several people were killed as extremists (thought to be allied with a Waziristan militant commander with whom the government brokered a `peace deal` last year) launched an all-out attack on Tuesday night, is the district headquarters of Tank district and not far from Bannu, Dera Ismail Khan and Lakki Marwat, all reasonably large towns of NWFP. The violence there began on Monday after a school principal had the courage to call in the police after jihadis barged into his institution and tried to win new recruits to their cause. The local SHO also responded and he sadly paid for it with his life, reportedly killed in the most cold-blooded manner possible, after he thought he had managed to broker a truce with the militants who would leave the school peacefully and without any new schoolboys in tow. The principal was kidnapped the following day from his home and he too paid for his courage in standing up to these extremists with his life -- on Thursday it was reported that his body was found from South Waziristan. The militants who attacked Tank on Thursday have been linked to pro-Taliban commander Baitullah Mehsud since this is his area of influence, although he has himself denied any such connection. However, it is worth reiterating that on many occasions in the past militants have carried out attacks against government installations and security personnel or killed so-called `informers` in areas under their influence but then disassociated themselves from these acts. One can only hope that the president is absolutely one hundred per cent accurate when he says that those elements in the intelligence agencies who in the past had supported the Taliban, the jihadis and their sympathisers are no longer in the service of the government and that now any assistance to these extremists is coming, if at all, from retired intelligence officials.

The other disturbing development is taking place right in the heart of the federal capital. In this case particularly, the government and the Islamabad local administration are to blame for not having acted earlier when the female students of Jamia Hafsa had forcibly and illegally occupied a children`s library demanding that this occupation would end only after the government rebuilt a portion of a mosque complex that had been demolished by the Capital Development Authority because it was built on encroached land. Now since those protesting claim to be religious students, one would first like to ask them their position on the legality of a house of worship – both from the temporal and the theological point of view – that is built on encroached land. Had the government acted promptly and strongly against this illegal occupation of the library and told the students and their madressah patrons that mosques built on illegal land are not legal, and had the students been ejected and not allowed to roam around Islamabad and launch `raids` perhaps what happened on Wednesday could have been pre-empted. But as usual, the government seemed to sleep through this all, with the religious affairs minister claiming a ``breakthrough`` some weeks ago in the occupation stand-off.

This `breakthrough` was that the government would rebuild the demolished parts of the mosque. The minister also managed to pose for the cameras as he laid the first `brick` of this promised rebuilding operation. But the naivete of the minister and all those in the government who agreed to this view of giving concessions to the undue and illegal demands of extremists in the country was once again proven wrong when after being given a foot they proceeded to demand a mile. Hopefully, in any future negotiations, the services of the good minister will not be used. Instead of leaving the library and returning to their seminary as any God-fearing law-abiding citizens would have done (they in fact would not have occupied the library in the first place), they placed more demand before the government and refused to end their occupation. The initial `raid` they conducted on one of the capital`s busiest bazaars amazingly went unnoticed by the police and local administration, again making one wonder whether some elements in either or both organisations were perhaps sympathetic to the cause of these extremists. An SHO has apparently been suspended for failing to act against the students when they `raided` the market but one would like to ask the government what it plans to do in the case of the minister, whose `breakthrough` emboldened these extremists so much that they believed they could go about dispensing their own warped interpretation of religion and law on everybody else, holding even policemen hostage in the process.

What is perhaps equally worrying is the fact that there may be many in Pakistani society who may think that what these extremists posing as students have done is good and necessary. After all, with all the intolerance and bigotry that one is exposed to as a Pakistani in the course of one`s daily life (from the mosque imam`s often virulent sermon, the bias and prejudice manifest in the national curriculum, the overdose of religious programmes and channels on television, to the increasing tide of religiosity in society and the tendency among many people to bring in religion into just about everything), the government and civil society have themselves to blame for this increase in Talibanisation. As for the government, it fails on several counts. Foremost among them is its remarkable -- and sadly enduring -- inability to take a stand against extremists forces such as in Tank and the Jamia Hafsa students, deeming such matters `sensitive` and then burying its head in the sand like an ostrich, pretending everything is all right, and continuing to think (at least some sections of the government and security establishment do, it would be fair to assume, subscribe to this view) that a way of having leverage with our regional neighbours means supping with the extremists and jihadis. In addition to this, the government is guilty of adopting a clear double standard. liberal and law-abiding progressive elements are tear-gassed and lathi-charged when they organise peaceful protests but when the extremists and obscurantists indulge in violent protests they are given undue concessions and a free hand to act with impunity. Tank and the Jamia Hafsa episode should serve as a wakeup call to the government. It must act decisively now. The future is only going to get bleaker unless madressah and national curriculum reforms are carried out and the overt display of religion in national life is curtailed, to levels normally found in other Muslim countries such as Malaysia or the Gulf states. As for civil society, and those who think they are non-extremist (i.e., progressive, liberal and/or moderate), they better stand up and speak against the extremists or risk their very existence and way of life coming under a permanent threat.

Re: #52/54,

Arrey Bhaiyo ... can`t you see the writing on the wall? It was always there but the gentlemen here (except a few) were and still have their heads in the sand.

Despite Mian HP`s cynicism, Mian tahmed32`s wonder and amazement, Mian Hamidm2`s vile abuse, and the usual hindoo rabid barking, this the reality which was always there to see.

What you`re seeing is the decision to bring to the surface a process which had begun a long time ago and had been gaining strength underground quite apart from any political process, because they are not a part of any such thing. These girls/boys are not political. These are `tanzeemis` with a loose knit leadership structure. They had been waiting for the right time for a show of strength (I had wondered on some board during the peak of CJ crisis as to what the Jamia girls were planning ...) and they decided to do it. Madame Shamim just inconveniently happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. They challenged the writ of the government, and won.

The day long attack on Tank (on the same day) in NWFP would have been no coincidence either. Tank is not FATA, rather it is the gateway to FATA from the NWFP province. It was a declaration of war against the State of Pakistan by the Islamists.

The argument of the girls is quite simple. They say if Musharraf can break all laws to come into power and stay in power, then there`s no law in the country and they can do the same.

I tend to agree. All power to them.

Re: # 88

hp,

....... that was a hoot !

Just in case some missed this news...

Iranian sailors detained in English Channel

March 29, 2007


An Iranian navy boat carrying 15 marines has been detained by the British Navy for entering the English Channel 1.3 miles off course near the Isle of Wight. Teheran claims they were loading pistachios on to an Indian ship in international waters, when they were surrounded by the British navy.

Amongst the arrested sailors is an Iranian lady named Fatima Turani. ``It all happened so fast,`` Turani told the BBC. ``We were boarding pistachios onto an Indian ship when we were surrounded by British commandos. They demanded we surrender or they would fire heavy machine guns and rocket launchers. We told Mr. Patel that we would have to send him the pistachios by FedEx. Unfortunately Mr. Patel was also arrested despite his attempt to inform the British officers that he had dual British and Indian nationality. A British commando responded `You bloody Asian terrorists look all the same to me!` I`m so sorry to the British government for apparently being in British waters in the first place. If we had known we were in British waters, then er, um, er, er er, er, anyway, we should have gone to France! I went to inform Mahmoud, but I couldn`t interrupt his prayer. And then after he finished praying I went and asked the second-mate whether I could speak to him, but he turned me away saying my documents weren`t in order. When I produced the correct documents he told me I had come to the wrong section, furthermore the special document allowing me access to Mahmoud wasn`t in order and was missing an official stamp. Also it was an Islamic holiday and all departments were closed. He said the only thing in order was my temporary marriage certificate.``

The UN is demanding the Iranians explain why they had their navy so close to British waters in the first place.

Not surprisingly, the anti-IRI satellite stations in the West are pointing fingers at the Iranian navy, and glorifying the British as angels. If there was ever a time to kiss some British and US butt, it is now, when war against Iran is around the corner. The Bush administration has put the names of the MEK leaders, Reza Pahlavi, Ibrahim Yazdi, Hashemi Rafsanjani (Koose, ``the shark``), and Cabaret Party of Iranian Dancers chaired by Mohammad Khordadian and Soosan Roshan in a hat to choose the Islamic Republic`s successors. Shabkhiz from Iran TV has absolutely no idea what is going on.

The Iranian authorities have produced a video clip of a GPS device (the size of a cellular phone) clearly showing the exact location of the Iranian boat in international waters. However, the Iranians have good faith in the UN in trusting their claim, despite no date being present on the GPS device, no other country willing to reveal satellite images of the incident, the USA and the French being surprisingly quiet about the whole matter. The Russians and Chinese are rubbing their hands speculating the long-term oil contracts they can squeeze out of Iran in exchange for satellite images.

Back to the topic...I think the stage is now set to attack the the terrorists and jihadi wherever they are in Pakistan...Let the game begin.....

PS.
I hope Musharaf wont chicken out this time.....

The author writes <<< The United States of America already seems to have lost its faith in the soldier-president’s ability to rein in the Taliban and other elements running amok, in their view, with Pakistan Army’s blessing. >>>

It is not that the US has lost its faith in him, if they had he wouldn`t be in office right now, it is that they want to bring him back in line, the are merely warning him to align more precisely to their demands, and in my opinion the issue of Iran is at the center of this entire so-called crisis.

As HP has clearly explained to the West`s peon (Tahmed), a spineless man does not and cannot become a hero overnight, just like a man cannot become a woman overnight. Therefore we must look at two things i) Why this show of spine when spinelessness was the norm for the same individual in similar cases ii) why did the army stand down

Now, the army is central to this entire game which is being mistaken as signs of a free and independant judiciary arising. Musharraf is clearly afraid but he is not afraid of the judges, he is afraid of i) the US and ii) his own army because ii) depends on i). Regarding HP giving an independant role to the Islamists within the Pak Army in determining affairs, I disagree, they are dependent variables, manipulated for use by the US in whose firm grip this institution is. No one can reach its higher ranks without going through the mold that is 100% pro-US, Islamists at the lower ranks stay at the lower ranks and if they are to reach higher ranks they change. Rhetoric is merely legitimation at the higher levels...

Masadi,

Musharraf himself admitted that there are supporters of AQ and Taliban in ISI (& army) who might be helping these organisations in their individual capacities. As 4 ur point that US manipulation, I agree.

I`ll tell u why. I saw this Rambo movie recently. The last caption of the movie is:

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`this film is dedecated to the brave people of Afghanistan who withstood occupation` (sic).

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There are aslo scenes in the movie referring to Mujahideen (Osama, Mullah Omar cud be among them) as `rebels`. The `rebels` were shown in good light all thru the movie. The avove caption appeared on the scens of surging rebels.

Now, when they turned against the US, they are terrorists! Wah America! Wah! America`s deception is a well known fact!

America is wily, I agree but why u (Pak) shud be stupid to buy the arms and engage in death games (i.e terrorism)? Even ur arab rulers are not exceptional. They buy arms worth billions of dollars. Why cant those stupid kings/sultans establish top-class Universities instead???

folio writes <<< Why cant those stupid kings/sultans establish top-class Universities instead??? >>>

They are products of institutions that select people based on a specific mold, when the functions of the institutions is to serve an external, it produces just that result regardless of the face of the person occupying a particular position in them.

pew pepe#84 You failed to answer my question in #76.