Girls Gone Wild

eastmwest

``thoughtful ones like Dr. Sohail leave the fold``

Again, non-Muslims might want to be careful about concluding that lot`s of Muslims are giving up on Islam. That may indeed be happening (is there any actual research available on this subject?), but is unlikely. Logically, the following should happen.

VERY VERY few, if any at all, of thinkers or non-thinkers alike - will EVER actually leave the fold of Islam. No matter what, or what it takes to make that happen, they will continue to identify themselves as Muslims. And if Zee is right (as I believe he is), it`s only the identity that really matters in the final analysis.

The rest of the malcontents will satisfy themselves by simply re-inventing their own/personal Islam by borrowing wholesale from any other religion they can find (the private aspects; public aspects of religion being much harder to borrow or change). Then, for the continued safety of their bodies and their souls, these reinventors will explain to to all (others who ask) why they - and those who agree with them - alone have discovered the real message of the Quran.

[Even more interesting prediction is that among these latter `leavers` and `re-interpreters,` within two or three generations, Islam-as-it-is will regenerate itself (self-corrected, in Zee`s terms), and matters will be back to normal.]

These guesses are based on a particular view of the amazing power and inner pull of Islam. That view could well be wrong, in which case these guesses would all be all far off the mark.

#1547 by hasanmahmood sahib
Right now , I am busy, I will be back after few hours and will answer all your questions one by one with all the honesty of my heart.

Thank you for your patience.

[[#1548 by Urstruly on April 13, 2007 12:11pm PT
Re: # 1545


Unfortunately, as a nation, we have come to the point where justice is not possible without danda and of course it will be Taliban and Talibaat danda this time.]]]

Sadly, I have to accept this is true to what is happening right now in Pakistan............sigh***

[[[#1543 by Urstruly on April 13, 2007 11:41am PT

J`waan behnoN ke khushk aansoo zameer-e-alam se hum-sukhan hain
Kahaan hamaara lahoo bikay gaa? Kahaan hamaara shabaab do ge?]]

Urstruly sahib

This is such a sad news that I can not stop my tears. I am really crying on this tragic news. So, they were just waiting for the quittal of Cheif Justice and as soon as he resigned, they freed the rapists under their umbrella............

What an enlightened moderation this is ? exactly under the supervision of General Musharaf, who claims that he is for all freedom. So, in that case , is he not responsible for the protection of all citizens rights?

Or General Musharaf himself is supporting these rapists to flourish under his dictatorship.

Why no one is raising voice against all this?

Why so called moderator Pakistanis are silent upon this extrememly barbaric act?
Why they have become the part and parcel of this cruel game?

Why, oh, why?

#1542 by zeemax
Yes, they call all Pakistanis Jihadis and Mullahs. And still they think we should take them seriously or they have all the logic...............LOL

If, you talk about Islam , Muslim , Pakistan............They will jump and will start calling you names like Talibans , Mullahs............this is their logic..........................and this is the only limited logic that they are left with.

I am proud to be Pakistani. Period.

If, they wish to murder me for my patriotism, I will be happy to sacrifice my own life for my beloved country, Pakistan. Pakistan Zindabad.

zeemax

ali_1 is a good hearted one, no matter what I like him. He keeps them on their shoes.

#1532 eastwest jii

Please, read this post,b/c I wrote not poor in my prior post. It is still poor.....thanks

No Mullahs have a very small role in the politics of Pakistan. They are only dummies , their remote control is in the hands of feudal lords, who are the real reason that Pakistan is still poor despite Majority of Pakistani people are hardworking, brave, intelligent and are willing to survive in their sturggle.

The basic problems of Pakistan are, (poverty, illiteracy, suppression of poor women folks with no equal rights, violation of human rights, lack of education, violation of the poor rights.Feudal lords like vaderas, chaudhrys, and Khans , they are the main reason , the rural areas of Pakistan are still poor and they abuse their own kind of perverted democracy to control poors and to gain more power for their own selfish agendas.

Mullahs have no role to play, trust me.

Hassan -

[Muslims are hated and looked down upon in the whole world because of what they have become.]

Thank you for identifying a global issue.


Folio -

Yes, that`s the article I was looking for. Pupose achieved. Thanks.

Chowk Moderators / Invigilators -

Please advise Madam ZahraJ to stop using my name in her posts. I have rarely cared to browse through her posts barring a few where I found flowery language surrounding my name.

It seems that Madam ZahraJ is hell bent upon enforcing her views on the rest of the world. No one is obligated to buy into anyone`s ideologues and approach. I find it real offensive when she starts being derogatory left, right and center in response to a view. That`s so immaturish. She needs to back off and walk away when people disagree with her views. It seems she cannot handle disagreements. No one is forcing her to like the JH women and dislike Madam Sahmim. Who cares whether she joins them or not? I don`t. She cannot force anyone to dislike the JH women and like Madam Shamim. Period.

Chowk is NOT an anonymous discussion board. People like Madam ZahraJ may hide behind her computer because they cannot write their views (good or bad) EVEN under their real identity. They do not have the back-bone to share their flowery language EVEN under their real identities. Madam zahraj - is an actor in this theatrical production.

It seems the war and hatred against JH women gave enough ammunition to some talented people on Chowk to conduct a theatrical right here. Fortunately or unfortunately, all of us do not intend to be part of the caste and crew.

I will appreciate if you deliver this note on a silver platter with myrrh and frankincense.

Thanks for your professionalism.

#1546 by devkant,

This article`s number of interacts has nothing to do with the article itself. It is a stupid comedy like Salim Chauhan`s FP piece about making a Jinnahpur. This article just appeared when emotions were charged and used as a forum. The author has nothing to do with it.

As for the abuse, yes I`m getting a good dose. Would you care to join in?

Regards.

(BTW I`m much more polite now, though I still despise hindoos :)

Zeena, I am not hurling abuses at you. If you dont agree with my POV so be it. You ask me whether I want an Islamic state ot not. Of course I do. But a true islamic state, where nobody has a fear of living according to his/her own beliefs. I dont want a Pakistan where people like Zeemax and their convoluted theories are in majority. I dont want a Pakistan where these mullahs can take the law into their own hands without any fear of reprisals. I dont want a Pakistan where you cannot say anything wrong about a dari-walla for the fear of prosecution. I don`t want a Pakistan where Mullahs tell me what and what Not to do. I want a Pakistan where people learn to live with each other. I do care about your POV not because I want to change it but because I do think of you as an intelligent person. I knwo what zeemax`s reality is. He was probably in jamaat - couldn`t find a girl, so he probably beat up every other guy he saw with a girl (like most jamaati`s did), and then probably joined the army and married the first woman he met. That is why I could easily understand where he was coming from. For him one has to convert every muslim by hook or by crook. He probably does not know that Muslims are hated and looked down upon in the whole world because of what they have become. he probably loves everyone who believes in everything these mullahs tell them without ever reading Koran. he probably encourages people NOT to read Koran but to listen to these mullahs.
You, however have disagreed with him in the past on many occassions, so what i dont understand is why you think that Jamai Hafzaa girls are so brave to stand up against the law and order. lets say Musharaf was not in power. Would you say the same thing if there was democracy in the country? Would you say the same thing about thee hooligans who want to close down the music stores or burn the cinema houses down. When do you think it should stop? Of course if Madam Shamim was running a brotheel, it should have been closed down and she put in jail. But does that mean that these girls on behest of their evil-minded maulvis take the law and order in their own hands? So tell me where do you think it should stop.
The reason why I said ``to all maulvis and unfortunately Zeena`` was because I really dont want to use your name in the same sentence as the so-called muslim zeemax.

Re: # 1547

Muslims give people the creeps...yeah that means practically all non-Muslims because ALL they do is talk about Islam, how great it is, how perfect Mohammed is, how glorious it is blah, blah. Any reasonable person who scratches beneath the surface is disturbed by many facets of specifically it`s essentially facist doctrine. Al lot of these converts were non Arabic speakers and did not know what they were getting into. It persists because of brainwashing that starts in childhood and severe penalites and osctracization for anyone who leaves or begs to differ.

One observation I have seen is that typically the most intelligent and thoughtful ones like Dr. Sohail leave the fold and typically new converts are the sad sorry sacks from other societies.

Islam also has the unfortunate effect of bringing out militancy in even the most peaceful tolerant societies. People get sick of hearing fatwa this fatwa that. Always someone should die for thei religion of peace.

Unless some huge reformation happens this society will rot and the high birth rates won`t help.

``#1513 by zeemax on April 13, 2007 7:27am PT
#1510 by devkant,

Yeah ... well .. so far out of these 1512 posts, at-least 1000 plus consist of abuse towards me and Zeena. How many more would you want? :)``

yaar...zeemax...i don`t want any more posts abussing anyone here. but thats not in my control. i have not even seen the posts or even bothered to read the article.

i just saw the unbeelievable number of posts to this article and though that future articles must be given soe tough competition....hence i thought that 2000 would be a good target.

another point that stood out that there is not a single post from our very own chowk jester manto....if he`d been around, this artile woould have crossed 2000 posts long back.

and about abuses....dude....u have dished out so much abuse to india, indians and hindus. why don;t you take some for a change. it`d be good for you!!!!!

rgds,

devkant.

#1543 by Urstruly,

What else does one expect with that CJ who took the suo-moto notice in the first place being made `non-functional` ?

But not for long now. All the Sonia Naz`s will get justice.

:)

Re: # 1545


Unfortunately, as a nation, we have come to the point where justice is not possible without danda and of course it will be Taliban and Talibaat danda this time.

Chowk Moderators / Invigilators -

Please advise Zeena aka TaniaU to stop using my name in her posts. I have rarely cared to browse through her posts barring a few where I found flowery language surrounding my name.

It seems that Zeena aka TaniaU is hell bent upon enforcing her views on the rest of the world. No one is obligated to buy into anyone`s ideologues and approach. I find it real offensive when she starts being derogatory left, right and center in response to a view. That`s so immaturish. She needs to back off and walk away when people disagree with her views. It seems she cannot handle disagreements. No one is forcing her to dislike the JH women. Who cares whether she joins them or not? I don`t. She cannot force anyone to like the JH women. Period.

Chowk is NOT an anonymous discussion board. People like Zeena aka TaniaU may hide behind their aliases because they cannot write their views (good or bad) under their real identity. They do not have the back-bone to share their flowery language under their real identities. Same is true for Zeemax - another actor in this theatrical production.

It seems the JH women gave enough ammunition to some talented people on Chowk to conduct a theatrical right here. Fortunately or unfortunately, all of us do not intend to be part of the caste and crew.

I will appreciate if you deliver this note on a silver platter with myrrh and frankincense.

Thanks for your professionalism.

J`waan behnoN ke khushk aansoo zameer-e-alam se hum-sukhan hain
Kahaan hamaara lahoo bikay gaa? Kahaan hamaara shabaab do ge?