The Hypocrisy of the Indian Leftists

Bbabu & Jang,

Stalin (s/o Karuna) visited a kovil (temple) b4 he filed his nominations papers in the recent elections.

Imagine how the Periyar or Anna Durai wud habe reacted to this??

Mr. Babu, as per DMK being clubbed as left...it`s plain convenience. We in India has many parties that are wedded to leftist ideology but are not named as communist OR socialist parties! We can call them as para-left (paraleft) parties. For example Samajwadi party in English reads like Socialist/Communist Party. Doesnt it??

If India need to progress to 21st century, it must shed Jurassic era policies.

In India caste and race is entwined. Infact it`s both.

Watching old Japanese movie of Akiro Kurusova reminds me of present day rural India (in scenes it looks like a pathetic, impoverished nation).

India has to meet the twin challenges of communalism (religious variety) and communalism (caste variety) to become another Japan in the next 50 years.

Re: # 61

Most people in the past had no time for science and philosophy. Most people had to do hard manual work for survival.

There are a few groups like Askenazi Jews who do have a higher genetic component for intellectual and business success.

I will give Tamil Brahmins credit. They seem more open to outside ideas compared to their non-Brahmin Tamil counterparts and even Telugu Brahmins. There is probably 5% minority among non-Brahmins and Brahmins who like to beat up each other over the caste based reservation policy.

GT, Bum Bholenath to you
harimau, jayen etc are doing just fine. in fact many ``lower`` castes of the yesteryear have taken-up mainstream brahminical pretenses and are discarding their older somewhat cultish gods. i posted earlier that my neighbor in mumbai ritually gives ``ardhyadan`` to the morning sun using a bightly shined copper kalash, mumbling i guess the gayatri or something..a very brahminical ritual. based on his caste, he should be slaughtering a buffalo on gatari day. so i think harimau is right that his thread is respected, but what i dont get is why is HE proud of it?

Re: # 75

you look as silly as the Islamic fundamentalists (who rant about the golden age of Islam) when you argue Indian contribution to Mathematics is anything close to what Western mathematicians have accomplished.

Re: # 28

DMK has never espoused communism. Their support for socialism or any other left wing ideology was no more than Congress or BJP infatuation with the public sector. They never represented people at the very bottom.

Some groups by virtue of genetic or cultural factors or a mix, make a disproportionate contribution to expansion of knowledge and economic growth.. south indian brahmins (who unlike the north indian brahmins are a small percentage of society) along with similar groups (there was a chowk article about one such group in punjab, the khatris.. parsees are also one such group as are the ismailis I think) in various parts of india (and pakistan, bangladesh) are one such group. The most prominent such worldwide group are ashkenazi jews (for more info do a search on google for charles murray`s recent article on this topic)..

A huge percentage of the most talented brahmins have emigrated outside tamil nadu (and outside india) because of systematic discrimination against them.. ultimately TN (and India) in the long run is the loser.. sure because of general macro factors, there will be growth etc. with quotas etc.. but its far from the optimal use of such scarce human resources.

Contrary to perceptions, the average quality of human resources in India (and south asia) is actually BELOW world averages and much lower than China/Korea/Japan. The only plus point is that the demographics is much younger but that advantage can be eroded. So simply taking this factor into account, it seems the gap between south asia and east asia will increase not decrease.. The only way to bridge the gap is by leveraging institutions (democracy, IITs etc) and promoting meritocracy.. Simply put, elitist education HAS TO BE purely meritocratic.. else the medium term consequences for Indian society will be negative (innovations and growth will be less than it would otherwise have been).. There seems to be a casual assumption that Indians as a group are ``talented`` and smart. Not true. It is biased by the Indians we meet abroad and in professional settings.

It is really sad that the premier (undergrad) school for mathematics in India (chennai math institute) had to affiliate with some unknown univ to get around the reservation quotas. Reservations wont effect the lower tier places that much (in terms of quality) but the highest tier places will be seriously affected. The main attraction to teach at places like IIT is the opportunity to interact with bright kids. In any case it wont matter much in the end as these kids who couldnt go to the college somehow still make it (the companies who hire have their own tests.. end of story)

Jang various:

Why are you being intellectual? Or serious? Something wrong with the job? .... health? Just curious. You are taking uncle hari and abcd seriously! Leave these guys alone, they are in deep shit (or is it Dickshit?) .... afterall Mayawati is their present leader in UP.

Ref DrDr #82

[as a total outsider im really curious abt ``bramin names`` - how can u tell?]

Quite easy. In Tamil Nadu, if a guy is named Senthamizh Selvan or Masanamuthu, you know he is not a brahmin. Among girls, Anbukkarasi (Love Queen) and Mangayarkkarasi (Queen Among Women) seem to be popular names among those not fortunate enough to be born with brains.

However, just like constant upgrades to computer hardware, most names are undergoing Sanskritisation. The Masanamuthus, not content with temples to Small Pox and Khushbhoo (a fat, Muslim actress), are entering en mass into temples dedicated to Gods and Goddesses of Vedic Brahmanism. With the result that, when you see someone named Lavanya, she probably belongs today to parents who have no background whatsoever in Sanskrit. I have run into more Akshayas and Lavanyas among the fisherfolks than Anbukkarasis or Tamil Selvis.

I know, it is tough for you guys. But there IS a litmus test: ask the person to pronounce the word ``Tamil`` which is the name of their language. The persons who do it correctly are brahmins. Or Malayalees -- just to confuse the hell out of you guys!

Jang,

Like the Spanish in Latin America did the migrators created mixed sub-castes of Brahmins in India. There are many mnay sub-castes among Brahmins as well. Not all Barhmins are allowed to do, for eg. conduct rituals.

If converted Muslims like Pakistanis are more arabic than arabs, these mixed Brahmins are more Brahminic than the pure Brahmins.

As 4 Rajputs, there`re no true Rajputs other than the people who `claimed` that status.

A true India is India when Negroids of Andamans & western India, Mongoloids of North-east, blade-nosed Kashmiris, dark-skinned southerners and tall Punjabis+Rajastahnis share a common identity i.e Indianness brushing aside this effing Brahmin & non-Brahmin, Muslim & non-Muslim denominations. (Too begin with, wud we accept a negroid or a chinese-looking NE fella working as a newsreader on our primetime TVs?. Our effing TV channels always recruit Punjabi-looking fellas.)

These effing denomications are working as mental blocks.

#87 folio, i have no problem acknowledging astronomical shyte based on almanacs or what i refered to as ``brahminical character``. but all that a large number (99%) of brahmins generations after generations did was repeat the puranic mumbo jumbo and analyzed shartras to figure out formula for amount of liters of gau mutra needed to clense a foreign-land returnee as a function of distance in number of kos from kashi. none of them knew anything about the famed sulabha sutra of apastambha or method of delivering a baby based on susrutas writing..heck none of them could deliver a calve of our revered dear gau-mata, they needed to call the kurmi to do that job else they would end-up giving an enema to the poor cow. so i just dont get how the brahmin can proudly wave his yajnyopavit when it is essentially a symbol of generations of social ossification and colossal ignorance...a tribe of idiot-savants, thats what brahmins are. they needed the western education and light to set them free and suddenly they talk of merit.

some hypocricy of the threaded.

#83 so maybe bramins were good ``scientists`` but not engineers?

Jang,

That`s too cruel on ur part.

Let me attempt. Learning is the exclusive job of Brahmins. A rajput`s job is to learn the ropes of sword-fighting, wrestling, horse-riing and other martial faculties. A trader`s job is to multipy the money that he inherited from his father. Even family traditions among traders have had many anecdotes, parables that promote this faculty of money-making. As for Brahmins, their job is to justify that King is the incarnation of the God (whichever God the King patronises).

Sudras (now split into upper castes and OBC,SC & STs): Each one has his own caste profession. A rope maker`s job is to train his son as a master rope maker. As for daughters, they need to find a good rope-maker as his son-in-law. These non-Brahmins never had an opportunity to get into learnings. I dont know if they ever had an opportunity to read at least?!?!

For the mastery of Barhmins in learnings, u must see the traditional almanacs. The westerners know only abt calenders that denote dates and days whereas we have calenders in India that include so much of data abt sun/moon rise/set. The times given are immaculate. Cant deny that. Though they link it with astrology (stupid thing) but san the astrological predictions, the astronomical calculations (without use of sextent or planetarium) we see in our calenders is something we all must acknowledge.

Ability to memorise (Rg Veda was not written till 7th century AD) is something special abt Brahmins as well.

`` In fact, he is DEMANDING that the law of the land recognize nothing except merit.
``

Actually merit is over-rated. If it was a merit-based workd, I would not have the luxury of browsing the web during work hours and getting paid for it.

#84 ;-)

#83

wah, wah ... taaliyaan, taaliyan!

#82 its only among madrassis you have brahmin and non-brahmin names...some dalits take buddhist names, but they are not uncommon among hindus either. surnames OTOH are telling because they refer to profession. So e.g. Dickshit (meaning priest) is likely to be a brahmin ;-)

anyhoo..for all the fluffing of the sacred thread, if you look at the history of last several centuries, brahmins have utterly failed the nation of bharat, considering they were at the top of the social-hierachy and therefore had the bully-pulpit.

- they capitulated to the invading hordes readily in return for small token annuities for their temples, in return were happy to crate paens praising even aurang jeb.

- they added nothing in the ``hard sciences`` and infact even lost important things like old mathematical works until the westerners came around and started exploring. all they did was regurgitate the shastras and the puranas ad-nauseum.

- they contributed nothing to engineering of canals, architecture, masonary, agriculture, animal husbandary and other important human endevours which improve life-style instead talked about world being maya, so give me some alms.

- they expressly retarded naval and other explorations by figuring out injuctions from shastras about crosing of the oceans. nooone dared cross the ocean (and come back) to face a cleansing gau-mutra shower.

so i think they should shut-up about achievements..sorry, if aryabhatta wrote some postulates, that does not count..its like jeemax harping about some old kaliph. what matters is brahmins DID NOT propagate that knowledge to do anything useful..what they mugged-up carefully from generation to generation was vishnu-sahastranams and correct recipe for satya narayan puja..for not particularly useful shyte.

just the other day there was a puja and the presiding priest was impressed that the halwa tested very much as if it was done by brahmins..the host was some kinda non-brahmin madrassi..and the priest also added that nowadays he eats food cooked by non-brahmins too because he is modern.

in short, large percentage of brahmins were obsessed by this kinda shyte, leaving the society to dogs. so, while brahminical character is (scholarship, cleanliness, dispassionate apporach etc) is honorable, brahmins as a group deserve no special respect IMO... for them to DEMAND it is really amusing.