The Hypocrisy of the Indian Leftists

I am all for doing self analysis, after we kill the Bamman and remove his scourge from Hindu society.

#63 abcd, as far as i know, brahmins were not doing any hard sciences before the british showed up. they mostly did astrology, some accounting, teaching, pooja, chefs and so on. they were not involved in smithy, bulding trades, irrigation, medicine, carpentary, textile manufacturing, dye making and so on. so, i dont see why you would argue that brahmins hold some kinda legacy for participating in hard sciences?

Re: # 61

Dear Krishna,

When you talk of the long term you lose sight of the fact that in the long run we are all dead. So let us concentrate on the short & medium terms.


Also, that both India and Pakistan must realize that there are serious internal social imbalances which need to be addressed immediately. Failure to do so would result in great harm to the polity, economy & the social fabric.

At least India has a constitution & institutionalised reservation. Pakistan also needs to build similar social corrective institutions.

Neither the crazy Mullahs nor the ``sacred thread deserves respect`` type of Harimaus (see#23 for details) fit in the current of scheme of things. Such idiotic mindsets need to be eliminated.

Regards...

#62 by jang
[#61 hard science of what? putting your yajnopavit on your ear when you attend a call of nature? ]

It`s ``the hard sciences``. Look it up, flatliner.

#61 hard science of what? putting your yajnopavit on your ear when you attend a call of nature?

I think Harimau is not a caste supremacist. I think what he is, is royally pissed off, like many other people who bother to analyze these things, or those whose lives get actually affected by this kind of garbage.

It is recognized by all right-thinking people that while the original aim of using this kind of a time-bound blunt instrument was noble, currently its only benefit is to the politicians, and the lazy and the inefficient.

But getting back to Harimau, and people like him (including myself). I think OBC/SC/STs would do well to do some self-analysis, instead of blaming the Brahmins. Just like in America, the blacks like to blame their backwardness on the whites - they never stop to analyze why, in the entire continent of Africa, there has not been a single indigenously developed written language, until very recently. While it may be true that in the pre-colonial past, the Brahmins had not been generous in sharing the knowledge that THEY, THE BRAHMINS, had THEMSELVES developed, it is also true that nobody was preventing the OBS/SC/STs from developing their own mathematics, astronomy and so on. But they never did. Any answers as to why? How about an answer to this, eh, masanamuthu? How about it, Okhla? Any answers?

Okhla here says, ``Rave and rant, as much as you may. You count for zilch. And you know that.``. What he probably does not want to realize is that this kind of quota system is not going to achieve anything for the OBCs/SCs/STs in the long run. The higher achievers are simply going to transition to private institutions outside the reach of the politicians. And private industries are simply going to ignore the public institutions of learning, and find talent where they can.

The lot of the blacks in the US, after years of affirmative action, is not much better than when affirmative action started. I cannot think of a single black scientist who has achieved any real prominence in any field. There`s a couple of names bandied around, but there have been no real contributions to the progress of knowledge. The few blacks that achieved some advancement in higher education IN THE HARD SCIENCES were all from the generation when there were no free lunches, and they had to try hard to succeed.

Climbing upwards is difficult. It requires a culture of application and self-effort, typically fostered in the family environment, which takes generations to nurture and propagate. Complaining and recieving free handouts is not going to achieve anything but derision from the high achievers.

There is no reason (that we know so far) that any group of human beings cannot achieve just as much as any other group, except for cultural differences arising out of myriads of reasons. There`s an interesting book on this topic - Guns, Germs and Steel - that won the Pulitzer prize - that attempts to answer questions about why some societies have succeeded better than others.

Nothing comes free in this life. The quota system will harm the OBC/SC/STs much more than the Brahmins. Invariably.

Apparently, this disease is not limited to India. It applies to minorities in Pakistan - and you must admit that it is far more serious there:


From the Shandana Forum on ``Girls Gone Wild:``
Zeemax #1007 {``Salim, the biggest hypocrisy of Patrick Masih aka PM is that he refuses to acknowledge,... that he gets a beer/ vodka/ gin/ whisky monthly quota ... at a quarter of the market prices ... courtesy of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. And on Easter and Christmas, I think it is doubled ... again .. courtesy of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.
Sheesh. Of all the hypocrites talking about freedom of minorities.``}

Zee Bhai,
Now I am really pissed. I mean I can`t get pissed in the Aussie fashion and this Post Meridian quota grabber has been getting all the booze that I can`t even touch. Here I have been denied the sweet nectar of life for almost two whole years. :( I know I know - take it to the Harimau ``Harry`` Iyer Memorial Forum on the EEO/OEO/Quotas/Backward Classes topic. :(

Dear Harimau,

Now get this loud and proper.

As long as there are idiots like you who revel in the respect their sacred thread gives them over other citizens,

As long as you refuse to do away with the caste system and insist on intra-caste marriage,

As long as you consider SC/ST/OBC to be inferior and less than equals,

As long as you refuse to believe that the exploitative Brahmins deserve solid ass-whipping before they come to their senses,

As long as someone like Mayavati does not become Prime Minister for at least two terms,


as long as......

till that time......

Till that time the statutory reservation needs to be extended twenty five years at a time.
And it will be. Rave and rant, as much as you may. You count for zilch. And you know that.


Read #23 once again. You are a laughing stock on Chowk.



BTW,
You guys have a good constitution, it has lasted all these years. Thank abmedhkar.

Ref dost-mittar #35

[As for hypocrites, yes, leftists are that but they certainly do not have a monopoly of that trait in India.]

In India, you have Leftists, Socialist, Communists, and Revolutionaries who don`t believe in democracy (such as the Naxalites).

There is no Centrist or right-of-center parties in India. Even the BJP is populist if not Leftist.

Two days back, the Allahabad High Court held that Muslims can no longer be treated as a minority in UP as their proportion in the population has increased since 1951 and has now reached 18.5%. The mircchi in the arse was felt more strongly by the Congress than by Muslims themselves and Congresswallahs said that election or no election (there are state-wide elections going on in UP right now), Mulayam Singh Yadav will have to appeal this judgment. This posturing is to paint themselves as more Islamic than Muslims themselves but then that is expected of momofukus who passed a law prohibiting alimony to Muslim women on the specious pretext of ``protecting`` Muslimas. Mulayam Singh Yadav promptly appealed the judgment and got a temporary stay against the court order.

It is important to notice that the courts are becoming activist in India and telling the momofuku politicians that they cannot trample over the rights of citizens on the pretext of righting some real or imagined past wrongs. And it is precisely this judicial activism that Karunanidhi doesn`t like because then he cannot reserve 120% of all available opportunities for SC/ST/MBC/OBC candidates.... not that those momofukus will ever realize that 120% is greater than all available opportunities!

Notice not one Masanamuthu tried to contradict my final statement ``The story merely proved that even brain damage is better than being born a OBC/MBC/SC/ST.``

That is because the SC/ST/MBC/OBC are all flat-liners in the EEG department.

Ref zeemax #3

[I would love to see how many hindoos participate in this discussion which has everything to do with them instead of them all congregating on anything to do with Pakistan &/or Islam which has nothing to do with them:~) ]

It is so much fun for them to point out how the Pakistani public is being screwed by their dictator Pervez Musharraf. It makes then forget at least temporarily the agony caused by the misdeeds of their own masters over whom they exercise less power than the mullahs do over Musharraf.

And I find that that idiot Soyaf@%*ingsauce has quit Chowk. Not that he would interact on any subject that would require him to actually think.

Ask Masanamuthu who posts on this board whether he is willing to have a nari-kurathi (Indian gypsy) marry into the family. Watch him run away.

Harimau dude,

I don`t know if you have noticed this earlier, I have previously mentioned that I have got Dalit relatives, one of my cousins married her Dalit classmate and they are doing fine now. I don`t believe in ``caste system as practised in India now`` and am actively working to destroy it.

I have absolutely no problem if anyone in my family is interested in marrying a nari-kurathi. It is none of my business to interfere in others` personal lives even if they are my brothers/sisters/cousins. I`d doubly welcome it if it is a marriage out of love.

BTW, I like your ``caste supremacist`` rantings. It makes for good ``fun``. like that ``people afraid of your sacred thread`` bit. It was awesome.. :-)

Ref cobra #34

[All I request is these quota doctors should be made to work in rural areas. Mandetory period. If you depend on govt. handouts you have a duty towards the masses.]

I have a better suggestion: all frikking politicians should get treated only by quota doctors. For instance, Karunanidhi can get treated by Dr. Ramadoass, his son Dr. Anbumani (``Love Jewel``) Ramadoss or even his own great-niece Anbukkarasi ``Love Queen`` Maran. Or by someone else who has spent 7 years getting through a four-and-a-half-year MBBS program.

If the quota doctors are good enough for the masses, why should politicians be treated at the All-India Institute of Medical Sciences (which has no quotas for MBC/OBCs until now) or go to the US like ``Murasoli`` Maran did? Fcuk them, they should be in the general ward at a local government hospital.

Ref SaimaShah #21

Thank you for your comments.

[Therefore, for you to succeed in convincing others that they should not tamper with the meritocracy of the Colleges, suggest the following:
1. Present the concerned Indian citizen image about inequality
2. Suggest Affirmative Action at the workplace rather than in degree colleges (that way the class system stays intact)
3. Point out examples of great Universities which have no Affirmative Action or less Affirmative Action.
4. In other words, take a leaf out of George Bush`s book.]

That approach works with people who actually have a functional brain. If I am seen as taking a 2x4 to the keisters of Indians, that is because -- as Reagan once put it -- you have to take these guys out to the woodshed once in a while and beat some sense into them.

The greatest fraud in India has been the total re-writing of history, including recent history, to suit the politicians.

The Constitution of India was shepherded through the Constituent Assembly by the Chairman of the Drafting Commitee, B R Ambedkar. The Constitution provided for 25% reservations for SC/ST only and for a limited period of 25 years. Ambedkar himself said that the reservations cannot and should not last forever.

But the intent of the framers of the Constitution have been thwarted by vote-bank politics. Today, reservations have gone up to 50% which was the limit set by the Supreme Court. In Tamil Nadu, it has gone up to 69% and this is under litigation for the last dozen years; in the meanwhile thousands of students have been denied their rights. And there is no sunset provision on any of these quotas. While everyone quotes Ambedkar`s name, not one quotes him as saying that reservations are not forever.

[...I enjoy the company of Pathans and Brahmins precisely because of the hauteur and arrogance, yet having a really meaningful conversation is only possible with the committed socialist..]

Indian socialists are not committed to any ideals; in fact, they should all be committed to mental asylums.

The only Indian leftist who had the courage of his convictions was E M S Nambudripad, the Communist who headed the first Communist Ministry in Kerala in 1957. Born a Brahmin and into a rich family, he gave away his wealth to the party. Compare that to the low-caste (by his own admission, he is an MBC; he ought to be, considering that for generations his female ancestors were devadasis) Karunanidhi who had not a sou to his name till the 1950s is now one of the richest men in India and his great-niece ``Love Queen`` Maran is a medical doctor. Hey, what is wrong with what her grandma was doing? I would think that she was providing an essential service and thus would have been exempt from the strike called by Karunanidhi just as Love Queen, MD, would have been had she stayed on in India.

So, you are wrong: you can have a REALLY meaningful conversation with a Brahmin Communist who will have the courage of his convictions but not with the run-of-the-mill OBC characters who have no convictions whatsoever except that they will not marry out of THEIR castes.

Ask Masanamuthu who posts on this board whether he is willing to have a nari-kurathi (Indian gypsy) marry into the family. Watch him run away.

Kindest regards.

Harimau

Ref Netizen #13

[sometime back some ``securalists`` had sued shiv sena/bjp for calling bandh and the subsequent loss to exchequer.

how come this time no one is suing Idiotnidhi?]

Actually, a person named ``Traffic`` Ramaswamy filed a petition in the State High Court. The High Court ruled that Karunanidhi called for the strike as a party leader and not as the leader of the government and so they couldn`t interfere with political expressions. They then asked why ``Traffic`` Ramaswamy was always before the court with one lawsuit or another. They postponed the final disposition of the case to some three weeks later by which time of course the strike would have come and gone.

Karunanidhi proved the High Court wrong by ordering the police to cordon off the state highways. There were photographs in the newspapers showing traffic from other states being stopped at the border of Tamil Nadu with police cars blocking the highways. One wonders how the State High Court is going to react to that!

``Traffic`` Ramaswamy is famous for trying to get the courts to order the state government officials to actually do their jobs instead of just sitting at their desks and collecting bribes. He files various public interest litigations when laws, rules and regulations are blatantly violated by the rich and powerful in connivance with politicians and petty officials. For instance, it was his lawsuit, appealed all the way to the Supreme Court, that got the illegal constructions in Chennai` busiest shopping area T-Nagar demolished. The Chennai Silks built a 5-storey building where the regulations limit building height based on available parking and floor space index (FSI - ratio between free space and built-up area) to three storeys. After a long court battle, Chennai Metropolitan Development Authority (CMDA) -- staffed by all those MBCs and OBCs -- demolished the top two floors of their building. One wonders how The Chennai Silks` building got approval from the CMDA, how they got electricity and water connections, how they got an occupancy permit and how they were able to function in a building that did not meet regulations for several long years.

``Traffic`` Ramaswamy was cajoled with offers of bribes to withdraw his lawsuit and threatened with bodily harm when he didn`t comply. He took the matter to the High Court which then ordered 24-hour police protection for him. ``Traffic`` Ramaswamy is thus the only common citizen in Chennai followed by an AK-47 toting policeman, even on the city buses which is his mode of transportation.

Ref Netizen #12

[Re: # 2

how will granting ``fake`` degrees and diplomas to undeserving students, reserving jobs in private sector (soon to come) for unqualified people make society more productive and resourceful?
how will the industry/society build on the strength of reservation not quality support innovation and growth.
anything done at the cost of merit and quality will handicap the nation.]

This is graduation time in Tamil Nadu`s engineering colleges. You should read the harangues by commencement speakers at the various engineering colleges. They all point out that less than 25% of the engineering graduates are employable upon graduation and how this is affecting industry. They should know.... most speakers are captains of the IT industry or Vice Chancellors of universities.

If one takes into account the 69% reservation in Tamil Nadu for SC/ST/MBC/OBCs, this would mean that the entire SC/ST/MBC/OBC contingent of graduates has no skills upon graduation so all they have is a fake degree.

Ref mohar11 #10

[Also - Harimau is complaining about how Tamilnad Chief Minster is shutting down the state and even national services to ``protest`` against SC orders... That is completely lunatic... and I agree with Harimau there...]

Not to be outdone, the government of Andhra Pradesh shut down that State for a day too.... on a different day than Tamil Nadu. The entire Lergislative Assembly called for the restoration of the OBC quota as well as reservations for Muslims and Christians, forgetting the fact that the State High Court had already declared that the law which provided for reservations in professional education in Andhra for Muslims was unconstitutional.

Karunanidhi also announced in the Tamil Nadu State Legislative Assembly that he will soon be bringing legislation guaranteeing quotas for Muslims and Christians in education but wait until the Supreme Court rules on the State`s legally mandated 69% quota for SC/ST/MBC/OBCs.

Talk about pandering!