The Hypocrisy of the Indian Leftists

Chinese hardwork and brainpower and arab management in oil Indistry keeps america top. Indians are fine in movie making.

#41 by masanamuthu
``And ``merit`` is overrated (atleast in India) by the way. For all the hype about meritorious doctors in India, I have not seen any ``path breaking`` cures / innovative medical practices by them so far. They just follow what is done in the west. We could as well live with ``quota doctors`` following the same.. :-) ``

That has more to do with the funding than talent my friend. Indians have achieved extraordinary success abroad in all spheres of life, including academics. Like some one in Boeing once said ``it`s easier to design a plane using Indian engineers here (Seattle) than try to invent one in India``. Again if you think that all the ground breaking work happening in the west is because they have superior brain power than Indians then you are mistaken to say the least.

#47, One of my close friends lost his admission in medical school by a mark- mind you less than 1/10 of a percent. (In Maharashtra admissions to Medical school are based on merits. There`s no separate entrance exam.) His crime.. he was a bumman.
We knew another girl in our acquaintance. Father on a high post in govt. Went to best (and expensive) school in city. Could afford two private tuitions from top notch faculty. Scored full five percent less than the bar. Got admitted in the med school. Her advantage.... her father is Adiwasi.
Like some one said below, the real beneficiaries of the quota system are urban elite who happen to have the benefit of being born to BC parents.

Aleph Null:

``Where, however, does it establish the causal link between quota doctors in TN and better health indicators? ``

It does not. But in fairness, I have yet to see any causal link between quota doctors and a decline in the quality of heathcare in Tamil Nadu either, which is mainstay propaganda for the anti-reservation class.

kaalchakra #40, muthu #41:

{{For instance (masanamuthu, if you some information, please feel free to chip in), are the so-called `quota doctors` more likely to serve areas that would have otherwise been ignored?}}

I did consider that doctors from impoverished backgrounds might be more ready to serve in hardship conditions braving discomforts that citybred middle-class types would shun. I didn’t mention it because I had no feel for the effect of caste-based admission on this. Perhaps hypothetical reservation on the basis of domicile (down to the district level or below) might achieve the effect of serving rural communities better. That might open another can of worms though.

{{it is not just the doctors, even nurses get through reservations and the government hospitals (that`s where majority of the people go, we can ignore the rich who can afford private hospitals) follow reservations too. So we can safely conclude (not just assume) that ``reservations`` have no harmful effects}}

No we cannot draw any such inference from what you’ve said. Your implicit assumption (from “no harmful effects”) seems to be that “the current system is working perfectly OK – end of story”. You have to compare the actual present situation with a hypothetical one where an equal number of medical personnel are admitted/selected/employed solely (or overwhelmingly) on merit, and see how the outcomes would differ. You haven’t even tried to do so.

For medical conditions that require treatment (will not resolve themselves without it), some care even if incompetent may be far better than no care at all; but more competent care would bring better results. Competence has to make a difference.

There`re established RSS mofos here on Chowk who were after an imagnary leftists. If they dont know, it`s these liberal leftits who speak 4 us when we i.e non-whites face any discrimination, racial attacks in the west. They need not speak but they do as helping the helpless is a noble thing.

As a liberal and secularist I often find this left-bashing by RSS mofos very amusing. Why they pick on them all the time?

B4 I go into the topic let me make it very clear. I am a member of National Secular Society (NSS) in UK - the oldest secular society in the world. Despite earning meagre amount I pay contributions to Amnesty Internatioanl every month. Though I advocate 4 one`s choice to belief and worship (subject to public order) as something non-negotiable, I personally dont follow any religion.

I believe that Mo is a peadophile, Jes is a ba$tard (born out of wedlock) and all Gods in Brahminical religion are frauds. Krishna, btw is a lower caste i.e OBC mofo who was after the ar$es of 16,000 village girls. Rama is a braindead moron who doubted that Ravana bonked his wife Sita day and night. Gandphutti $crews anybody who doesnt feed his potbelly.

Do the God (s) really exist?

There`s an established RSS mofos here on Chowk who were after an imagnary leftists. If they dont know, it`s these liberal leftits who speak 4 us when we i.e non-whites face any discimination, racial attacks in the west. They need not speak but they do as helping the helpless is a noble thing.

As 4 the issue of reservations.....Indian govt is suffering from morbidity of brain.

i think in medicine what matter more is honesty and priciples rather than ``brilliance``.

masanamuthu

Thanks! If quota system improved medical access, EVEN IF some of its products could not perform brain surgery every morning and every evening, the society could still come out ahead.

[Having said that, an unbridled quota system can wreck any society - that`s why no other society has implemeneted it, except * in favor of * the politically privileged and powerful. Strong and genuine pro and anti quota system arguments exist. The two must be continuously balanced, in a dynamic manner.]

AlephNull, Kaalchakra,

valid points..


Even assuming that availability of a larger number of quota doctors made a measurable positive difference to health of the public in TN, wouldn’t the same number of doctors, but selected exclusively on the merit principle (and therefore presumably brighter, more competent, less prone to making errors in diagnosis or treatment) have brought still better results?


Well, doctors form an important component of the health system. it is not just the doctors, even nurses get through reservations and the government hospitals (that`s where majority of the people go, we can ignore the rich who can afford private hospitals) follow reservations too. So we can safely conclude (not just assume) that ``reservations`` have no harmful effects.

Greater access to nurses and doctors play an important role. If an illiterate person / barely literate person knows that one of his distant relatives / one of his neighbors` distant relatives has become a doctor/nurse and working in some town he would be induced to take his kid to the hospital rather than wait for God to cure the illness.. and motivate him/her to send their kids to school to become a doctor..

And ``merit`` is overrated (atleast in India) by the way. For all the hype about meritorious doctors in India, I have not seen any ``path breaking`` cures / innovative medical practices by them so far. They just follow what is done in the west. We could as well live with ``quota doctors`` following the same.. :-) Also If you look at the cutoff marks (probably a couple of years back that I remember), the SC candidate with lowest mark to get through in TN scored 270/300. The greater problem is the misuse of ``reservations`` by the ``creamy layer`` among the OBC/SCs..

DM ji, without his trademark haughty and angry tone, our Harimau would not be so special. :)


AlephNull

All valid points, but given that TN has, for so long now, allotted significant proportions of seats on the basis of reservations, had these doctors been completely messing up, we would expect to see some chaos on the field. Greater chaos than in other states with similar socio-economic conditions. From masanamuthu`s link it appears that hasn`t been the case.

It could be that we are missing some sociological processes unfolding under our `radar.` For instance (masanamuthu, if you some information, please feel free to chip in), are the so-called `quota doctors` more likely to serve areas that would have otherwise been ignored?

muthu #38

Your link makes interesting reading. Where, however, does it establish the causal link between quota doctors in TN and better health indicators? Might the improvement not be primarily on account of better nutrition (particularly for children – programmes like noon meal scheme), a larger proportion of literate women, greater use of effective contraception, etc?

Even assuming that availability of a larger number of quota doctors made a measurable positive difference to health of the public in TN, wouldn’t the same number of doctors, but selected exclusively on the merit principle (and therefore presumably brighter, more competent, less prone to making errors in diagnosis or treatment) have brought still better results?

The truth is the much maligned ``quota doctors`` are good for the people.

Refer to the National Human development report

and check the Health indicators for Tamilnadu where reservations were in effect for decades..

yeah cobray, its patently unfair to unleash these guys on villagers.

#34 by cobra on April 5, 2007 8:01am PT

IIRC, all doctors are required to serve for a short duration in areas selected by the state.

What India needs is real affirmative action: Indian ministers will only get treated by doctors who got in through a quota.

Harimou:

You make some valid points in your article but the angry tone destroys the effect.

I am in favour of affirmative action to reduce the effects of systemic discrimination. However, I think that the Indian quota system is not having the intended effects and needs a serious rethink. It is quite clear that the position of the lowest castes as a group has not improved significantly despite the creation of the so-called creamy layer. When we have reached a situation that communities are queuing up to be declared backward, something has gone horribly wrong the system.

As for hypocrites, yes, leftists are that but they certainly do not have a monopoly of that trait in India.