With or Without Musharraf – A Mohajir’s Perspective

#429 by Salim_Chauhan

[In reality, true democracy does not mean ``mob rule.`` In the US and other democratic societies, there are clear-cut guarantees against the tyranny of the majority.]

An extremely important point which is almost always overlooked by many desis. The whole concept of a filibuster comes to mind! A simple numerical majority does not mean that issues do not get debated and fairness gets overlooked – in fact the smaller the margin of majority, the higher the level of debate! The American public likes it just that way! It is generally felt that giving too much power to politicians is an invitation to disaster.

And who can disagree with that line of thinking – especially if one watches the subcontinental poltics!

#427 by Zeena

Kindly do not try to subvert the intents of the chowk management behind keeping UP and FP separate. UP is a members only area for a very good reason and people use all kinds of words with very limited moderation and editing (which is not MY job!)! Enough said!

You remain my little sis, irrespective!

However, please do not entertain any false hopes that my personal admiration for your sticking by your own principles will stop me from openly and candidly stating my own views! Thanks, little sis!

#422 by hamidm2

Sir, your conspicuous and futile effort to deliberately drop my name into arguments nothing to do with any discussion issues at hand – all because you are incurably smitten by my charms – are to be denounced by one and all of the vast, tired, not-so-poor, and suffering chowk masses!

#389 Salim my dear

To cut through buck-waas, I stand by my assertion that mohajirs are no different from any other immigrants to any other land – and the fact that Pakistan was just being set up at the time is not relevant! Immigrants generally start out below those who are already present in a geographical location – immigrants generally work harder than the “natives”, perhaps of necessity – and immigrants therefore build themselves up. This happens all over the world and Pakistan is no different. Case closed.

#383 nauman72

Yaar, that is one exceptionally well-written post! Needless to say – you have rightly pointed out that the power of the pocketbook overrides all. You also indirectly (and perhaps unintentionally) prove that in the absence of economic bonding, other factors (religion, etc.) can hold out only for so long as uniting agents of a country.

You have made a case for territorial integrity being useful for maintaining national unity – I am not so sure. The only way in which this makes a difference is by letting the army move quickly from one part to another, perhaps to suppress rebellion. Does that help in the long run? I doubt it. Post 1971, the territorial integrity was always there. Is Pakistan more likely to break up now than in 1972 – you tell me! if the answer is no more or no less – then it also proves that the presence of such integrity did not help create much in terms of any bonding of the national identity!

Salim mian may or may not be right regarding what he sees as a further breakup of Pakistan – nobody here has the power of seeing the future and that is clearly just one man’s opinion. In the Pakistan, for the last sixty years or so, the tendency has been to try to enforce unity through the khaki might rather than attempting to address any needs of the population (other than feeding them the afeem of religion) so the economic bonding is weak and the centrifugal forces remain strong – the khakis then end up in a quandary – without loosening their grip, it is impossible to improve the economy and by loosening the grip, there is a possibility that the centrifugal forces will tear the place asunder – such tearing up has perhaps already taken place at the “heart and mind” level – if one like me (an outsider) is to go by the tone of the interacts here. I hope all the best for your optimistic evaluation but I can also see how the mian Salim (budding writer and CE material) will come to his less than optimistic predictions.

Your attempt to justify what the Jinnah did provides little new information than what has been done countless times by the apologists for that man – most notable by Yasser (in his own inimitable way!). You are entitled to create as many “complexities” as you wish – that is your right, and that is what many criminals’ lawyers do to obfuscate the cases against their clients – but in its essence the concept is rather simple. The similarity between the apartheid South Africam, the pre-1953 American South and other cases of segregation around the world are too striking to ignore – simply because a big chunk of Pakistani intellectuals lack the guts to say so openly! This “will of the majority” business to break-up a country has no less legitimacy when applied to the distinct Pakistani provinces than how it applied between the Hindu and Muslim “constituencies” prior to partition – when even the geographical separation was diffused!

Also, when everything is said and done – there is also the question of what the intent of individual leaders is! Gandhiji wanted to unite people, have them bridge their differences, live together – his use of the term “Ram Rajya” was not a RELIGIOUS vision, it was simply his nomenclature for (perhaps) an utopian vision!

Jinnah – perhaps he was a brilliant lawyer – no matter whose case he was pleading – individual clients or individual communities! He simply came up a cropper as a nation’s builder – because he was separating people – hitting with his powers of articulation at the fault lines which had existed for a long time – creating further animosity and eventually devastation of the land that he was a son of, that gave him sustenance!

As they used to say in the American south (and elsewhere) during the darkest period of interracial discord:

“There is no bigot like an educated bigot!”

#452 (add-on)

If they do make you the CE, please petition them to make my little sis your assistant! That will perhaps get me back into her good books.

And do not forget who actually fought on your behalf by proposing the idea!

Salim,

My dear, I am distressed to see you add my name among the “culprits” who have been off-topic. I dutifoolly maintain that everything I have said on your board has been exactly on target! :)

Khair!

Congratulations on approaching (and most likely surpassing) the 500 (or for all I can project, even 1,000) interacts. (Heck, if you are nice to me I can even help you along! :) You are well aware that I REALLY try to help people – unlike others whose words amount to little more than hot air. :))

Those interactors who have pulled out my “wayward” words from UP over here (and to other areas which are available to the general public) ought to be cited for subverting the intent of the chowk behind restricting access to UP where the monitoring (perhaps on purpose) is more relaxed!

I may have a few more comments on your piece, but I do maintain that you are fresh blood – your writing is well-received by virtually everybody and chowk should seriously consider making you a featured writer. In view of your ability to get along with virtually everybody (even I) and bring about a meeting of minds rather than create acrimony – which is truly a gift, they should definitely consider making you the CE – in my opinion, you will definitely perform better than anybody in that role that I have ever seen here.

Ref sanatani #246

[Also we could have made Pakistan a nightmare in 1947 by insisting on a complete EoP the way Dr Babasaheb Ambedkar insisted.

Where is that charlatan Harimau let us here from him the explanation of Brahmanical failure and SC wisdom in 1947.]

I subscribe to the theory that Motilal Nehru was impotent and Jawaharlal was actually the son of a Muslim friend of the family who frequented Anand Bhavan.

That would explain a whole lot about Jawahar including his faggotry. ;)

Sorry Saleem,

That`s my mistake. I did it reluctantly.

I hope u`d pardon me 4 that.

Re: # 435

Zeena:

I have never understood, how suddenly in the middle of arguments revelations come to daughters that they will stop arguing and fighting and swallow pride and would take completely opposite position to be on the same side. My two daughters when they were young, and sisters even now, would times be arguing and come to me to help resolve. I used to feel honored, and in all honesty would get involved to help resolve, only to find them on the same side and arguing with me. Shortly afterwards I realized to stop when this turn happened, as they had come to the same side, and point them that they can be on the same side, only if they can find some common one to talk (I would not use argue to be diplomatic) about. That indeed is the dispute resolution. Now I do miss this role though, as they have moved on in their own lives.

Salim Mian

If, you can share with us. What is the exact agenda and stand of MQM?

Is it only for Karachiitis? Or Is it for the whole nation?

Thanks

Salim Mian

Just last irrelevant post for you...........I promise, no more irrelevant posts for future....

You can fine me $50.........for that....LOL....

Thank you very much for clearing this up. I apologize for misreading your post as[[[extra-marital]]]..................

I am really sorry about that lil misunderstanding from my part.

Message from Altaph Bhai

Altaph bhai has read this article and all interacts and has sent us a message, which is reproduced below, verbatim.


``I wish to convey my salam to all brave Mohajirs of Lalukhet, Korangi, Orangi, Buttnangi, Golimar, Phusimar, Water Pump and Bhains Colony for their brave participation on this thread where they fought the evil Punjabi oppressors``



``I want to remind you that you are the proud bearers of the Ganga Jamni tehzeeb and need to take special care of your churidar pyjamas, like my churidar pyjama that was hand dipped in both Ganga and Jamna by Muttarwaqeen Bhai Shaheed, MQM unit incharge of Water Pump on his visit to India.``




``We Mohajirs are superior to the Punjabis, Pathans, Sindhis, Baluchis, Hindus, Sikhs, Christians, Parsis, Makranis, Chinniotis, Malyalees, Afghanis, Aga Khanis and Baqar Khanis. We are superior because we are all Syeds, Siddiquis, Faruquis, Usmanis, Naqvis, Zaidis and decendents of other holy and pious people. The rumor that most of us descended from bhangi and chamar converts is spread by the evil Punjabi establishment. It is a coincidence that Kallu Chamar MLA of Harijan Party looks like my twin brother, in fact it can be a conspiracy of the evil Punjabi intelligence agencies``



``Finally, I want to congratulate Salim_Chuhon on this occasion. Come gimme a hug and a chummi, mibiatch``

re: Salim_Chauhan

Massacres of 1947 were communal in nature, not ethnic or racial. It was not sparked by the politicians. Nor could they control it. Punjab has never seen violence of that kind either before 1947 or after it.

In contrast, the ethnic strife perpetrated in 1980s by MQM was political in nature. It was sparked by one political party and its leader to divide Pakistan and Sindh along ethnic lines and damage the PPP. Violence was used as a deliberate political instrument. Football grounds were turned into torture cells. Slogans like ``Qaid ka jo ghadaar hai, maut ka haqdaar hai``.

This violence is not an aberration. It is by design. And that`s a big difference!

#440 Salim Mian

The one female I referred to is [[[Saminasha2]] and ofcourse along with her die hard supporter(scout new)................


You and Sobia are matured enough to solve this issue................if, both of you seriously wish to.....................

I WILL not interfere further.............

Carry on with the exact topic of your article. I will add to your article more and ofcourse positively.............

Folio, Zeena, klpd, BJKumar,

My dear friends,
I have to be a party pooper here, but we have a forum with a specific topic for discussion. From now on, anyone posting irrelevant posts or those pertaining to UP (not the esteemed province of India) altercations will be fined $10 per line. The proceeds will be sent to Muhammadpur Refugee Camp in Dacca, Bangladesh for airplane tickets (in first class) to Quaid-e-Azam International Airport.