With or Without Musharraf – A Mohajir’s Perspective

#433 Nauman72 {``I am sorry for getting a bit sentimental but the actions of US and other “democratic societies” these days are no different than mobocracy. ``}

Nauman Sahib,
I can well understand your confusion and, more importantly, confusion with the ``democracy`` of the current environment in the US and UK. First, we have to understand the pernicious effects of 9/11 and 7/7 - these were horrible and 100% of the perpetrators came from Muslim societies and advocated an extremist Muslim agenda. Having said that, there is no excuse for the Patriot Act, the excesses committed daily at airports, or the almost open season for hunting Muslims or those resembling Muslims.

Speaking of democracy, we had an election in the US in 2000 and the man with the fewer votes won. :) Daddy`s Supreme Court and a handful of Florida Muslims handed Dubya the White House.

However, it was the disdain of democracy that eventually got both Bush and Blair into the trouble they are in today. They conspired, fabricated, and stage-managed the invasion of Iraq and can only blame themselves for its effects. I think ``democracy`` occurred in 2006 with the Democrats putting the reigns on Dubya`s runaway adventurism. Thanks for your comments and a very polite and intelligent manner of discussion.

Interactors & Saleem,

Sorry for this. I`ve got to reproduce this from Shandana`s board.

ANYBODY WITH CHOWK ID CAN SEE THE TRUE PICTURE OF UP FOR URSELVES.

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#1579 by Folio on April 14, 2007 1:44pm PT

Zeena,

I opened a thread meant for Yasser. The caption is eye-catching but the contents are not. (I posted the thread here).

Sobia jumped in & called me idiot and demented. Why she started calling me like that. WHY?

You want me to keep silent and take all the abuses against me?

Zeena, dont make a scene here. Members who had IDs wud see the whole muck there.

I dont want the muck of UP (incl ali`s post) on this board. Hope good sense prevails.

Btw, pl dont engage in personal remarks.

Much appreaciated.

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#1577 by Folio on April 14, 2007 1:31pm PT
Zeena,

Are u going to reproduce the shit with toilet seat published by ur Jihadi-in-arms ali1?

U are as usual over-reacting. Making personal comments is uncalled for Zeena.


UP is an underground den. Keep those UP matters away from the discussion.

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[Reply to interact #1577]

#1576 by Folio on April 14, 2007 1:22pm PT

Zeena,

It`s mutual btw her/him & me. I dont look at the other interactors that way.
What u are doing is mud-slinging.

If u want to know she called me worst kinda names.

For ur benefit: I NEVER ABUSED anybody ON MY OWN. It`s OTHERS who flung abuses FIRST. What I did was PAYING THE MEMBER IN THE SAME COIN.

I hope u are happy now.

Chowk Staff:

Pl do filter this post & the post of Zeena below this. Thanks

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[Reply to interact #1580]

#1579 by Folio on April 14, 2007 1:44pm PT
Zeena,

I opened a thread meant for Yasser. The caption is eye-catching but the contents are not. (I posted the thread here).

Sobia jumped in & called me idiot and demented. Why she started calling me like that. WHY?

You want me to keep silent and take all the abuses against me?

Zeena, dont make a scene here. Members who had IDs wud see the whole muck there.

I dont want the muck of UP (incl ali`s post) on this board. Hope good sense prevails.

Btw, pl dont engage in personal remarks.

Much appreaciated.

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#435, Zeena,
I am sorry. Please change ``burying the hatchet in Sobia`` to ``burying the hatchet with Sobia``. My bad.

It should read as follows:

Zeena,
I have no problem burying the hatchet with Sobia. All she needs to do is to stop mutilating my last name and refrain from constantly bringing up my name in a derogatory and abusive manner. I doubt that she is capable of keeping a truce, because she is too heavily under the influence of Scout (yes, Scout(new)) the eternally jealous antagonist and utterly profane villain of Chowk. :(

#435, Zeena,
I have no problem burying the hatchet in Sobia. All she needs to do is to stop mutilating my last name and refrain from constantly bringing up my name in a derogatory and abusive manner. I doubt that she is capable of keeping a truce, because she is too heavily under the influence of Scout (yes, Scout(new)) the eternally jealous antagonist and utterly profane villain of Chowk. :(

Salim Mian

I apologize for this post..................


#432 hamdim2

Carry on with your garbage...........this shows where you`re coming from.............

#434 Folio

I can also see where you`re coming from....................

Laugh out loud..........for insulting our Prophet(PBUH) by an IGNORANT.............

Just read this , if, you can insult our Prophet(PBUH), you can insult others as well............
#1566 Folio

Folio

And, here is your abuse towards my fellow Pakistani female interactor , called Sobia on un plugged...............SHAME ON YOU.....AND SHAME ON YOU TWICE for abusing Sobia.................

Look @ your posts and decide, who you are? A real woman abuser............

[[[[#13 by Folio on April 14, 2007 9:15am PT
U underground beytch.....why dont u answer posts on FP? Dum nahin ya paisa jyada nahi miltie??


user posts | profile


#12 by Folio on April 14, 2007 9:11am PT
Sobby Beytch,

Salim on anyday wud give u handful... How much do you enjoy is upto u. Kyon, beycth with a deyck
user posts | profile


#11 by Folio on April 14, 2007 9:11am PT
Sobby Beytch,

How much do u get 4 this sucking business everyday??

#18 by Folio on April 14, 2007 9:31am PT
Sobia eunuch,

Tell whether u have a deych or a another thing?? I think u put ur lil ugly mug in ur arse??
#20 by Folio on April 14, 2007 9:39am PT
Beych,, get some flying phukk from Salim...

#22 by Folio on April 14, 2007 9:50am PT
Sobia..tell me how we can do a flying phukk ]]]

Yes, now I understand where you`re coming from.................tsk, tsk, tsk.............

Now, come and start abusing me instead...............I do not care.....this is the way you are and you will be....................I am showing you just a mirror...........]]]]

Re: # 435

... this post is hilarious !

thank god it is not christmas and i don`t need any bulbs !

#432, Hamidm2 {``....... don`t forget that he, the first mohajir, went back to conquer mecca and throw out the idols from the kaaba - we expect your people to do the same ......... inshallah, one day, you too will go back to conquer cp, up, bihar, raise the green and white on the red fort in delhi and circumcise bj-bin-kumar .............. and then if you have some time you can tear down all those idol filled mandirs along the ganges ........... takbeer !

p.s. i am sure you can get a few pathan and punjabi ansars to come along - as somone said, the sindhis don`t like to leave home even with their american express cards ........``}

Hamidum Sahib,
LOL - Especially that part about the Sindhis not leaving home even with their Amex cards.:)

Finally, you are back to normal. Was the Budweiser truck late today?

Salim Mian #429

Thanks.........

Just one request, if, you stop your fight with Sobia............B/c I do care for her. I met her, she is very decent girl, trust me.

Even, if, both of us fought in the past for a very brief period of time,just b/c I got involved in that fight, which was actually started by another female interactor( You know whom) , I do not wish to mention the name of that particular female interactor.

Later, I realized that it was not only your fault, but, also the fault of the other female interactor, who equally abused you and not only that she made it a life time daily routine to harrass you and abuse you. She made groupies with all the females and males and tried her best to ban you from this web site....................

I still remember, you ignored her and you even apologized to her on multiple occasions, but, she made it a life and death issue...............

I always stood up for her rights in the past and @ one point considered her my cyber friend.

But, she always in the past and currently ganged up against me, did everything possible to harrass me, abused me with the vilest abuse possible..................she made it a life time mission to gang up against me and not only that she supported all the men on un plugged, who abused me...........she got friendly with all those men who made it their life time mission to insult me with the worst abuse possible.........................

She victimized me and then started playing all innocent................

She and her abusive gang is the only reason , I quit Un Plugged.............

Both of us forgave and forgot and carry on with our lives............................

I know with that particular interactor you can not have any reasonable interact.............

But, Sobia on the other hand seems quite reasonable..............I am NOT imposing my views on you..............

If, you think, I am being unreasonable here, Please, forgive me and forget about this post.

I will always stand up for the right action and will support you with open heart and open mind for your right stand.............Thanks for being nice with me.

#432 by hamidm2 on April 14, 2007 1:20pm PT

Hilarious. LOL

#429 by Salim Chauhan:
[In reality, true democracy does not mean ``mob rule.`` In the US and other democratic societies, there are clear-cut guarantees against the tyranny of the majority.]

Mr. Chauhan, I accept and admire your view that democracy is actually not a “will of the majority” but a “government by consensus”. But just for argument’s sake, can there be any “clear-cut guarantees” against the tyranny of the majority? 1800 Americans died due to Katrina but the US government did not declare “war against hurricanes”. 3000 Americans died as result of tragic incident of 9/11 and the US government declared a “war on terror”. Two sovereign nations were invaded and occupied with the approval of the Congress, i.e. the will of the majority. 6,50,000 Iraqis got massacred as a direct result of this war and the anarchy and instability created by this war. Was it the revenge of those 3000 American lives? Or the weapons of mass deception? Or the Iraqi oil in an energy starved world? Or simply because the “national ego” of a super power got hurt pretty bad? The right course could’ve been to improve the efficacy of intelligence gathering and law enforcement agencies. How did invasion and occupation of two sovereign nations help root out the scourge of terrorism? I am sorry for getting a bit sentimental but the actions of US and other “democratic societies” these days are no different than mobocracy.

Re: # 431

salim mian,

.... zeena beti is right in bringing up the holy prophet (pbuh and his camel) - he was the original mohajir from mecca and you should be following in his exalted footsteps ....... don`t forget that he, the first mohajir, went back to conquer mecca and throw out the idols from the kaaba - we expect your people to do the same ......... inshallah, one day, you too will go back to conquer cp, up, bihar, raise the green and white on the red fort in delhi and circumcise bj-bin-kumar .............. and then if you have some time you can tear down all those idol filled mandirs along the ganges ........... takbeer !

p.s. i am sure you can get a few pathan and punjabi ansars to come along - as somone said, the sindhis don`t like to leave home even with their american express cards ........

#426 Zeena {``If, you do not believe that Prophet Mohd(PBUH) was the last Prophet and if, you disrespect prophet Mohd(PBUH), like almost all mirzaais have had been doing on this web site in the most derogatory way possible.

I stood up for my Prophet Mohd(PBUH)..................and got the vilest abuse possible from all chowk mirzaais and their female close friends.

These chowk mirzaais openly posted that they do not believe Prophet Mohd( PBUH) is the last prophet and that Mohd(PBUH) was a false prophet and they called HIM(PBUH) the worst names possible. ``}

Zeena,
I appreciate this welcome detour. :) You and others know my true and sincere feelings for our Holy Prophet (PBUH). My love for God`s Mercy to Mankind (PBUH) stops just short of worship. Yes, I believe that He (PBUH) was the greatest of God`s creatures and the Seal of the Prophets. As for people demeaning his sacred name and making other claims, I say let them. The more they dishonor him, the more exalted will be his name and his standing. Abu Sufyaan, Dante, and Washington Irving are all dead and gone, but the Holy Prophet`s (PBUH) name is still loved and honored by over a billion human beings. :) Don`t worry, Allah will not allow His Messenger (PBUH) to suffer. :)

I do not approve of people on Chowk abusing you for your beliefs in defending the Holy Prophet (PBUH) or our common cause in support of those acting against illegal prostitution.
Thank you for your continued support and encouragement. You are the type of female who can lead us out of our collective nightmare, because I sincerely believe that intelligent, caring, and competent Muslim women will save us from this abyss. I wish to exclude Bezamir from this group of ladies.

Salim#395:

Please do not throw the baby with the bathwater. There is a tendency at chowk to use one error to destroy the legitimacy of an entire post. Despite the obvious mistake of misidentifying the provincial location of Panipat and Gurgaon, the information provided in post #361 is substantially correct, as far as my knowledge goes.

#428 nauman72 {`` I don’t associate any ill will on your part but there is an intrinsic flaw in the idea of democracy, i.e. the will of the majority. And if the government has to be conducted by a majority then the Muslims of sub-continent had every right to demand a territorially contiguous area where they constituted a majority``}

Nauman Sahib,
Pardon me for interrupting, but you seem to have inadvertently pointed out the underlying problem with Muslims not being able to live with others - especially as a minority. You see, many Muslims, especially in Punjab, believe that majority means ``mob rule,`` with no provision for the rights of minorities, rights of individuals, or basic guarantees of free speech, freedom of religion, freedom of expression, and freedom of assembly. Many Punjabis think that now that Bengalis are gone, it is their own turn to exercise excessive power thanks to this newfound concept called ``democracy.``

In reality, true democracy does not mean ``mob rule.`` In the US and other democratic societies, there are clear-cut guarantees against the tyranny of the majority.

Maybe, we need to educate everyone in Pakistan about this important distinction. Especially since Bezamir and Besharif are joining the good Mullah Fazloo in bringing the ``democratic`` circus show to the streets of Pakistan. Sorry for the interruption, please continue with your interesting discussion. Thanks.

#394 by Kaalchakra:
[Was it possible for Muslims to live peacefully together with the rest of the Indians, like all non-majority other communities, or not? Or, did Islam erect, as you compellingly argued earlier, an impossible barrier to cooperative, non-majority cohabitation with all others (non-Muslims in general and, for some reason, Hindus in Particular?]

Though it looks a bit odd answering questions with other questions but I am also going to ask a few questions after answering your question.

Yes it would’ve been possible for Muslims to live peacefully in India in the same manner that 140 million Muslims live today in India. In fact many millions of Muslims and Indians live peacefully in France, UK, USA and many other developed countries despite their religious, cultural and civilizational differences.

Now its my turn to ask a few questions. Was it possible for Hindus and Muslims to live peacefully together, like all “non-majority” communities, under the British Imperialism forever? Or, did the era of modern nation states, the concept of democracy, self-determination and the “will of the majority” made it impossible to live under a perpetual imperialism, be it of foreign masters or a permanent numerical majority of another religion and a civilization?

I apologize if my questions sound a bit harsh but you’ve questioned the very foundation of our nationhood. I don’t associate any ill will on your part but there is an intrinsic flaw in the idea of democracy, i.e. the will of the majority. And if the government has to be conducted by a majority then the Muslims of sub-continent had every right to demand a territorially contiguous area where they constituted a majority.

A request to bjkumar sahib..........................

“I have said this many times before. Tauheed sahib is an absolute paragon of virture compared to a low-life like you and your `wanna-fuck-but-can`t-fuck` whore - that Versey woman!”

Please, we both are from very different backgrounds.............with absolutely different mindsets.

I can proudly state about me, that my ideology is very clear and positive......
I believe in [[LIVE AND LET LIVE]]]]. I never insulted Indian Gandee and I do not indulge in any kind of Insults for Indians and for India.

You, on the other hand is always demeaning, bigot and extremely abusive for Pakistanis and for Quaid-e-Azam for NO reason at all.

Alright, you can abuse my country, you can abuse Pakistan. May be you feel threatened by Pakistan and see us as your enemies.........You can abuse me as well, if, you want to. I do not care.

But, I have a question from you why are you abusing the vilest abuse possible for your fellow Indian well respected and decent accomplished writer, called Miss Farzana Versey?

Just have a look @ your own abusive words for Our genius , lady Miss Farzana Versey............,

[[[“I have said this many times before. Tauheed sahib is an absolute paragon of virture compared to a low-life like you and your `wanna-fuck-but-can`t-fuck` whore - that Versey woman!]]]

This shows you are not trust worthy. If, you can abuse your own Indian respectable ladies, then what can I expect from you?

NOW , MY last request to you.........

PLEASE, DO NOT CALL ME YOUR [[[[SISTER]]] OR[[SIS]].

BECAUSE, YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT DOES IT MEAN?

AND I DO NOT WISH TO BE THE [[SISTER]] OF A HATEFUL AND BIGOT LIKE YOU.

SORRY.................