With or Without Musharraf – A Mohajir’s Perspective

#542 Manto Lives

[Hope you will be around then.]

Good Lord! It is going to take THAT long!!

#557 DM-jee

You and mian Hamidm should try to be less patronizing. This is a forum for expressing opinions. Manto is a grown-up person (chronologically), with every right under the sky to make as much a fool of himself as his (little) heart desires!

#562 Salim

Yaar, kindly do not demean auto mechanics. Thank you!

Post # 564 is a proof that mohajirs have no issues in Karachi..

1. Quotas (especially in Sindh, using urban/rural numbers, while this classification is not used in Punjab, NWFP or Baluchistan - just ask Aasif Bhai!)

Quotas were established to protect Sindhis from unfair job discriminations and they only apply to Government jobs. 70% private sector jobs in Sindh are still held by Mohajir. There are quotas in NWFP, and Balochistan too. Do you want 100 percent jobs to go mohajir and starve Sindhis? This is not an issue you are asking for a privilege.

2. Unfair employment practices and questionnaires in military, civilian government jobs

How so ? There are more Mohajir in all federal jobs than Sindhis. 7% percent have 25-30% and you want more? That is again asking for a privilege and depriving some other folks. Have some sense of decency. Do you want Sindhis to starve?


3 Unfair educational opportunities

Where?

4. Unreasonably high defense expenditure
That is not a mohajir issue. It is a national issue and I have never seen any mohajir complaining about it.

5. Until Kokhrapar was opened (unnecessary travel to Lahore for travel to India).

People from Karachi rarely use Khrokrapar. What if there was no train track in that area? It is a convenience issue but just not legitimate.

6. Need Indian High Commission in Karachi for visas
Call Indian government

7. Difficulty in getting visas for Indian relatives to visit Pakistan
Trains are running full. Is that your idea of legitimate issue?

8. Intolerably rude treatment of Indian relatives by PPP staff in India.

Not true. Customer service has never been better with Government employees.
But that is not an issue too.

9. Presence of overwhelmingly ``alien`` police in Karachi - mostly PPPs
Funny a Mohajir says that. were mohajir not alien when they arrived in Karachi?
That is not true not any more.

10. Use of ``alien`` force in oppressing the citizens of Karachi - mostly PPP Rangers

Join Rangers who is stopping you.

11. Continued and shameful injustice against ``stranded`` Pakistanis in Bangladesh

Not an issue for residents of Karachi now.

12. Government-sanctioned culture of guns, drugs, and violence in Karachi - thanks to Afghan refugees using Karachi as outlet for drugs to Europe.

More mohajirs have guns now than any other group in Karachi. Mohajir kids are using TTs to snatch mobile phones, cars and purses because they know they will not be punshied.

13. More, to be provided upon request ....

You just don’t any legit issue… Garbage…

#563, HP {``What is the problem? Can you point to one legitimate issue?``}

You asked for one, please enjoy:

1. Quotas (especially in Sindh, using urban/rural numbers, while this classification is not used in Punjab, NWFP or Baluchistan - just ask Aasif Bhai!)
2. Unfair employment practices and questionnaires in military, civilian government jobs
3. Unfair educational opportunities
4. Unreasonably high defense expenditure
5. Until Kokhrapar was opened (unnecessary travel to Lahore for travel to India).
6. Need Indian High Commission in Karachi for visas
7. Difficulty in getting visas for Indian relatives to visit Pakistan
8. Intolerably rude treatment of Indian relatives by PPP staff in India.
9. Presence of overwhelmingly ``alien`` police in Karachi - mostly PPPs
10. Use of ``alien`` force in oppressing the citizens of Karachi - mostly PPP Rangers
11. Continued and shameful injustice against ``stranded`` Pakistanis in Bangladesh
12. Government-sanctioned culture of guns, drugs, and violence in Karachi - thanks to Afghan refugees using Karachi as outlet for drugs to Europe.
13. More, to be provided upon request ....

Salim

``when you soothe passions and tell humanity that there is no problem.``

What is the problem? Can you point to one legitimate issue?

#561, HP,
Thank you for your impartial and objective verdict that we Mohajirs are suffering from ``Malekholia.`` Do you remember when the Serb guardians of the concentration camps in Bosnia insisted that the prisoners never had it so good and that they were being treated extremely well - better than the Serbs` own paramilitary goons? When asked why some of the prisoners looked so hungry and that one could see their ribs poking out through their skins, the commander replied that some of these ``Muslims are built that way in their physique - they are naturally tall, thin, and very lanky.`` HP, sayyeen you are so convincing when you soothe passions and tell humanity that there is no problem. You must be an auto mechanic, because that`s what they always say when one complains about noises or smells right after a repair job – “Just drive around for a while and the noise or smell will go away. “ :)

#557 Dost Mittar Sahib,

I am so glad that you approve of the unique aspect of this forum that seems to unite Pakistanis and Indians along ethnic lines. :) I say anything that enhances desi unity is worth the effort.

I thank you for your sincere compliment about the decency that prevails for the most part in this forum - the credit goes to the wonderful people, regardless of their viewpoints, who have all contributed to this pleasant atmosphere.

As for Mohajirs having set themselves up as the original ``elites`` of Pakistan, you may have some validity in your statements. The preoccupation with religion, the longing for Delhi, Lucknow, Agra, Hyderabad, Bhopal, Rohilkhand, and Ajmer, the lingering culture of Zamindars, nawaabs, and urban Lucknowis must have contributed to this mistake. But this aura of cultural ``superiority`` was not that malicious or caused any cruel massacres, rapes, and arson. The charge that Mohajirs instigated rape, murder, looting, torture, and expulsion of Hindus and Sikhs is a baseless and insidious lie and the perpetrators know that.

The reason that Mohajirs did not blend in or assimilate is that, other than the Punjabi speaking ones (e.g. some Delhi SaudageraaN, many from Haryana`s Panipat and Gurgaon areas), most did not feel welcome in West Punjab. Many were directed to trains waiting to take them to Karachi. Tell me, why would people from the interior, from lush landlocked areas of India, want to go to the desert, the coast to start new lives? Punjabi is a lot easier to pick up than Sindhi for most Urdu-speakers. Lahore was a famous and established city from pre-partition days and Mohajirs would have felt a lot more comfortable there. Lastly, Lahore was closer to India and most of western UP and Delhi - the areas that contributed the bulk of the refugees other than East Punjab.

Have you ever heard of application forms that want to know your place of birth, your daddy`s place of birth, and (God forbid) your grandpa`s place of birth? What are they trying to find out with these stupid questions? Thanks for a great post. :)

Re: # 561

`` The reason that Mohajirs did not blend in or assimilate is that, other than the Punjabi speaking ones (e.g. some Delhi SaudageraaN, many from Haryana`s Panipat and Gurgaon areas), most did not feel welcome in West Punjab. Many were directed to trains waiting to take them to Karachi. Tell me, why would people from the interior, from lush landlocked areas of India, want to go to the desert, the coast to start new lives?`


..... this arguments cannot be substantiated with FACTS, since there is a considerable , well integrated and assimilated Mohajir population, every where , including Punjab.
needless to remind Walton was in Lahore.

...my guess is , the LURE of econimic activities, in the THEN Capital, and relatively Empty City, with a Large Port in an already developed City, as compared to the Over crowded
Punjabi Cities , also the relatively eassy access to claims for EVACUE Property , was the overwhelmingly forcefull reason.

... this claim, to boarding them to TRAINs heading for Karachi, is farfetched, No one could force , Unless and Untill the willingness is there, as again I repeat ,a considerable number of the well integrated Mohajir Population in the cities of Punjab refutes it...

Re: # 561

LOL

Do you have any Idea, who designed those forms and why...!!


... they were designed by the BABOOS , early in the formative years, basically to settle
evacue property issues, ........and the informations were for cross checks....we all know
what happened to the evacue property don`t we.

Unfortuntely, ......... these items, were Left In, call is malicious intent or whatever, and then
ZA Bhutto`s notorious Quota System.
which was actually the result of a Unique Situation, where there was a Sharp and distinct
Urban-Rural divide, with practically no representation from the Rural side in the system
....[ affirmative action ...] to bring a sembalance to the imbalance, orignally for a limited period, but ....have been extended , ever since, even in the present Govt, which is whole and sole controlled by the Mohajirs.... I wonder why,.....!! yes there was a token, objection to it, by the MQM in the assembly but later On they agreed to it......!!
[...... as it has given then..... ONE More cause to keep beating the stick.....]....


PS it appears , you have no Idea of the ground realities, and all your information is based on .... secondary sources to the secondary sources...

.......you live in turkey, some of your relatives live in Pakistan, and the hear say, from these sources, moulds your opinions.....!!... yes you do claim to visit Pakistan on ...........[.........tourist Visa .....] for a couple of days or weeks at best....I presume.

It is quite evident on this board that no one has any sympathy for this privileged group. They are doing very well economically and in fact better than any other group in Pakistan. What is the gripe here? It is all about the inherent communalism. Communalism is a disease and takes time to cure.

Politically, they had couple of bad years but if you pay attention most of it was instigated by them. That story is now over. They have political power not only in Karachi and Hyderabad but also in Mirpurkhas, Tando Allahyar and Tando jam.

#550 Mantolives {``Since you have left a menu of choices that may be acceptable to you, I have no qualms with your vision for the future and I am counting on Mohajirs staying with Pakistan and achieving its original intended objective for which your ancestors gave up so much. ``}

Manto Bhai,
Of course, reasonable people looking for solutions always offer choices, we need options and ultimatums. Unfortunately, many of the Pakistani Punjabis here on Chowk (with the notable exceptions of Kamal Sahib and yourself, I don`t know Nauman72`s affiliation), instead of trying to understand Mohajirs` real concerns, have embarked on a path of denial, justification of repression, outright abuse, racism, vulgarity, and allegations of Mohajir misdeeds dating back to Amir Khusru. :) Calling us Indian agents or RAW informers and traitors are not the path to reconciliation and future unity.

I appreciate your polite, sympathetic, and rational attitude. Even when we have disagreed, you and I have managed to maintain a civil and congenial environment.

BTW, what do you think of the recent kumbaya of Fazlu, Bezamir, and Besharif in London? :)

Shreeman Chauhan:

First of all, congratulations for starting a very civilised debate which has, for the first time, broken the usual alliances. For once, the adversaries are aligned according to ethnicity and not the usual Hindu-Muslim, India-Pak lines. There have been ethnic alliances before but generally of the intra-country variety and not of the cross-border types seen on your board.

Along those lines, let me give my PPP (I was born a Pakistani, after all :)) perspective. In India, too, we were called Panah-guzeer -the actual word used was ``sharnarthi``; we too resented that word and started calling ourselves ``Pursharthi`` (the brave ones). But after a while, both these terms disappeared and we all became Indians and started going about our own ways. The same thing happened to muhajirs who went to Pakistan except those who went to Karachi and Hyderabad, where they found themselves into a majority and being the bureaucratic karta-dhartas of the newly created country, tried to dictate the Pakistani agenda.

Their position was, in some sense, similar to that of the upper-caste Hindus in India who, though a minority, also found themselves in the driver`s seat after the British left. However, unlike the Mohajirs in Pakistan, their leadership was more egalitarian and they immediately set for themselves the vision of a more egalitarian society. Unlike the Mohajirs who are still protesting quotas for Sindhis, they themselves created quotas for the most oppressed and indeed asked one from those oppressed classes to head the constitution making process. And despite the initial enthusiasm for Hindi, to some extent even in the South, they decided to opt for sixteen national languages (including Urdu) and English as the main official language, with a token towards Hindi enthusiasts by making it also an official language.

What I am saying is that the Mohajirs, to some extent, set the stage for a reaction against themselves being an elitist class. The fact that they had come from outside only worsened the resentment against them. I think that the MQM has recognised this resentment and has therefore changed its stance. Now, it seems to stand for more provincial and linguistic rights, just as the Congress leaders did in the years after independence. You would be well-advised to support the new MQM agenda and gained the sympathy instead of the hostility of other demographic groups in Pakistan.


Manto:

I second hamidm`s advice to you. You really have a bright future. You should best ignore your `enemies`. In any case, the enemies you are fighting here may disagree with the interpretation of history, they do agree with your cause, going forward.

#551 aquaris {``Pray tell me , why is this `` complete alienation ``, with the rest of the population only confined to Karachi , and Hyderabad. ``}

Dear Aquaris,
Fair question. I guess there are several reasons:
1. That`s where the most repressive and cruel violence by Pak Rangers occurred.
2. That`s where the bulk of the Mohajirs live
3. That`s where they are secure enough to complain, but not secure enough to be happy.
4. That`s where the heart is - and the complaints and feeling of complete alienation are sincere. :)

Re: # 556

i will agree with 2, somewhat with 3, and as a corrollary to 3 with 4.

But not 1


..since I have lived THAT ERA, ......and consider it just an attempt to ........ let me say politely HOODWINK own constituency,
... It all was deliberate , and they themselves are involved, upto the Neck in it.

....and because had they realize the REAL truth...which I am sure , with current state of Mind, THEY WILL NOT, only in the future
say after 10 years, and if they are allowed to think objectively and then LOOK BACK.
will the realize what actually happened to them and With them.

... at present, 20 years of crimnalization, has disoriented every perceptions in them.
...and it will take at least 10 more years of sustained PEACE for them to get their bearing back.

It will shatter many a myths....... PERIOD.



PS on personal level , I got that needed space, when my father sent me to Punjab Lahore, and still then it took 6 Years for the venom to get out of my systems...

#552 Hamidum2 {`` look, most of the people here are either overpaid and underworked expatriates like me and salim mian who do not have a dog in this fight but like the idle gup-shup, or horrible hindoos who are by nature given to chasing cars``}

Hamidum Sahib,
Who you callin` overpaid and underworked? :) It`s a good thing that my father-in-law doesn`t visit Chowk.

The part about ``chasing cars`` was indeed funny. LOL. :)