With or Without Musharraf – A Mohajir’s Perspective

Re:salim#473
[...I just want to remind you that Liaquat Ali Khan was from Karnal, Punjab. ....]

Most of Liaquat`s land holdings were in western UP. For all practical purposes he was a leader of the UP muslims. You know as well as I do that he was a power hungry sleazebag who hated India, hated hindus, made Kashmir the ``core`` issue and created most of the ethnic mess in Pakistan by relocating mohajirs in a manner to give them demographic clout over locals. As Zeemax mentioned once, Liaquat was overheard saying in frustration that ``Buddha mara nahin`` while Jinnah was on his deathbed.

Bottom line is this - I believe that UP muslims would have done anything, absolutely anything in the name of Pakistan, if partition had not happened. They had gone beserk with communalism by 1947. The Punjus did most of the killing no doubt. However, the organization, the instigation, the provocations were all due to UP muslim manipulation. UP muslim leaders and the deobandis would go all over Punjab and Sindh to provoke local muslims. There are accounts of them carrying human skulls and bones with them to Punjab to present as ``evidence`` of hindu brutality. If partition had not happened, the UP muslims would have turned Delhi and Mumbai into killing fields like today`s Baghdad. Just like the Sunnis are slaughtering majority Shias with car bombs, we would have seen UP muslims ganging up with other muslims to create non-stop bloodbath of hindus all over India. Thankfully we were spared of that fate by Jinnah.

Now that the mohajirs have failed in Pakistan, suddenly they have discovered their love for India!! What a fraud!! The same people who tore up the country with fierce, virulent determination, leading to mass scale slaughter, now want to reverse history. What a brazen attempt to be too clever by the half.

India will never help mohajirs in any shape or form. We have memories of what UP muslims did in the forties and there is no love lost for them. It is a testimony to Indian or rather hindu commitment to secularism, that UP muslims were allowed to still live in India. Otherwise in any other country they would have been kicked out lock stock and barrel after their extreme treasonous conduct at that time. Ideologically we hindus never had any issues with Punju muslims. Punjab never had communal issues for a 1000 years until the UP muslims showed up there with their propaganda. Now that the Punjus rule Pakistan and have shaken off the mohajir influence, I see no reason why we cant be friends with them and lead our lives peacefully, rather than get involved with mohajir issues.

Re: # 503

What is Indian position about Sindhi nationalism.
GM was told by PM Rajiv he will discourge thoubles they say.
Why Indians are helping BNA and blowing up railways, slectric pylons and gas pipelines.
Same thing can happen to Pakistani pipeline bringing gas near Indian border if blowing happens in B.Stan .

#500 You made the milestone, but still seem to be sans period.

#499, Aquaris,
Yes, by Barabbas I meant a combination of both definitions. Barabbas, a real criminal was set free by Pontius Pilate at the insistence of the hypocritical Jews, who preferred to have Jesus, the rebel rabbi, crucified for his sermons. :( Let`s change the topic before Masadi shows up and elevates the discussion to Masada. :)

Re: # 501

Mr Masadi will say whatever he has to say, he won`t be stopped by either you or Me or any one else...


let me repeat..

`` Barabbas was a member of the sicarii, a militant Jewish movement that sought to overthrow the Roman occupiers of their land by force`` Mark (15:7)


[ Freedom fighter.....???? ]


Interestingly.... ``Barabbas``, or ``Bar-abbas``, translates to ``son of the father``, also.


also

In the book The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail written by Michael Baigent, Richard Leigh, and Henry Lincoln, there is an idea that Barabbas is son of Jesus and Mary Magdalene. According to authors of the book, this explains why the crowd choose Barabbas to stay alive, because such act will save the dynasty.

..go figure out about the Myths, and Myths......and Myths,.......which create our perceptions.




Oh sorry I forgot , yes please come back to the Topic.

..and where were we.....!!

...let me be the one to make it 500 interacts for salim chauhan...his fragile ego shall be further inflated with that landmark...;)

#492 masanamuthu {``I was thinking that Salim as a Mohajir would wage a jihad against India, but looks like he`s waging a mini-Jihad against Punjabis. :-)``}

Masanamuthu,
Sir, the only jihad I strive for is one for self-improvement and to fight injustice, corruption, hypocrisy, lies, and oppression - mostly on Chowk. :) I have no enmity toward India or for that matter against any other country. I am not even anti-Punjabi - I just detest their myopic and foolish determination to dominate others. Peace.

Re: ahmedmadani # 493

Wah! (For the theory, not the history of Pakistan, which I don`t know).

But there are no unfortunates, only naive or incapable fools. Those who lose because of their own actions or inactions, deserve to lose.

[That`s why Mohar bhai`s confidence (``chips have fallen``), while not unreasonable, gives cause for worry. Hindus were turned into slaves in their own land for so long for very good reasons. It`s doubtful if they have learnt their major lessons in just sixty years. ....In history, great things are destroyed very soon, the march from good to evil is stunningly rapid. It`s the reverse journey - in the rare case when it is possible at all - the re-building, making something good back that`s hard, difficult, painful work).

#487 Nauman72

Thank you my dear. I believe we understand each other and of course continue to disagree on some of the finer points.

Let me ask you a couple of other questions:

(1) What is the likelihood of the Manto actually being able to convince the vast masses of Pakistanis to his viewpoints and getting elected to a position of power?

(2) What is the likelihood of a liberal, progressive, Pakistan - where women have equal rights and all religions are treated as equal - developing within the next 20 years or so?

re: Nauman # 487

Beej has a solid model of all socio-politics: All humans are alike, being roughly equally good and equally evil. They have different linguistic, cultural, religious, professional associations, but compete primarily for material resources. Occasionally some greatly evil men (and women) come along who focus their talents on breaking existing bonds and highlighting existing differences. The natural way to do that, is of course, by spreading hate.

But for the presence of such evil, human beings can live together on any historically convenient basis.

(am helping Beej out so he does not misrepresent himself. :))

Nauman72 #487 to BJ Kumar {``Step-1 All humans are alike and there is no difference between individuals on the basis of geography, religion, ethnicity, language and culture.

Step-2 People are different on the basis of geography. And all territorially contiguous areas should be merged together to form a nation state irrespective of religion, ethnicity, language or culture.

Step-3 People are different on the basis of geography, religion and civilization and those territorially contiguous areas where people from one religion or civilization have a dominant majority should constitute a nation state.

Step-4 People are different on the basis of ethnicity, language and culture and the world should be divided accordingly.

You’ve drawn a line on step-2, I have drawn a line on step-3 and Mr. Salim Chauhan would probably like to draw a line on step-4. ``}

Nauman Sahib,
Another excellent and thought provoking post from you, sir. I disagree with you that I would probably be categorized as supporting Step 4. Ideally, I would hope that I support Step 1 or even Step 2, but certainly not Step 3. I could be a pragmatist and compromise with Step 4 - as long as you change the statement ``and the world should be divided accordingly`` to ``and the world should be united accordingly - recognizing both democracy and the protection of the rights of all minorities from the tyranny of the majority.``

My objection to Pakistan is simply that it has become the domain of Punjabis determined to achieve total hegemony and is headed for a breakup if allowed to do so by the all-powerful Punjabi-dominated Pakistan Army. This process started with Ghulam Mohammad in the `50s, gained momentum in the `60s, reached its zenith (really its nadir) in the `70s, and has been rapidly degenerating since the `80s and `90s. Mushy has bought some time by deflecting a lot of resentment from the Punjabis on to himself.

Any thoughts on who chose the name ``Mohajir``.. ?.

If you look at the historic significance of the term, Mohajirs are the ``true believers`` who migrated along with the Mohammad of Arabia on persecution from ``idol worshippers`` of Mecca and cam back vicotriously to plant the flag of Islam in Mecca.

I was thinking that Salim as a Mohajir would wage a jihad against India, but looks like he`s waging a mini-Jihad against Punjabis. :-)

If crucifixion is here, can resurrection be far behind, Lord Salim? :)

Re: # 491
MQM has case but they have strength in numbers and muscle power. Real loosers of Partition are sindhis. Incidentally started by Sindhi leader by taking lead by passing resolution in Sindh assembly by GM. They lost influence steadly over years and retreating against rising numbers of MQM and other immigrants in Karachi City and have become minority in Karachi and same with hyderbad same is happening to mediunm cities and steady erosion.
Those who consumed by hatred become blind and forget that fire they started happily is demoslishing them. All sheths departed and real loss was loss of intelluctual class it was dead society walking with head cut or brain dead. When educated class has departed it was easy to demolish sindhis and only way left was retreat and retreat. It is also true that new arrived people were fired with great desire to suceed and were harsh and ruthless with locals and its common occurance in history. They saw liked and conquered and displaced imcompetitants. It happend as general warned B.stan terrorists ( vaporisation of bugti war lord) - They will not know what struck them.

B.stan people suffered due to afghan wars as afghans moved in great numbers. Now quetta is controlled by Pathans. B.Stan have same problem as slowly eroding any power against afghans/pathans. Its mirror image of sindh and future will loss total power as MQM did to sindhis. Its not done with purpose but natural displacement with locals same as deshis are doing of blacks in usa or more properly hisponics doing to blacks. It apperas same for blacks, sindhi, b. people just different places different races.
I always wonder people deserve they get or some are plain unfortunate people and groups.

Friends,
Breaking my own rules, but I think the following thread started by Gujju and my addition are relevant to this forum - that`s stretching it a bit. :)

Salim is like Jesus

Started by Prashant009 on April 14, 2007 9:52pm PT

Just the way hatemongers insulted, tortured and crucified Jesus, Salim too is the target of hateful people. They insult him, mock him, abuse him - and yet Salim stays unwavering in his quest for the truth and universal brotherhood. Just like Jesus came back from the dead, Salim too comes back again and again, every single time he gets banned by his enemies. Just like Jesus, Salim stays true to the mantra of love thy enemy, offering the other cheek to his attackers, some of who express desires of wanting to defecate on his poor late grandmother`s bones. God bless Salim and give him the strength to persevere in this orgy of hate that is chowk.


Gujju Betay,
Thank you for your excellent perspective.

Some other parallels to the Greatest Story Ever Told:

Gujju - St. John
Kaalchakra, Hamidum, and Drlokraj - three wise guys from the East.
Zeena - Mother Mary
Ass Lame - trying to play Mary Magdelene, but not totally reformed yet.
Madame Flatulence - Ugly hag in front row knitting a sweater for T-Bhai (sorry wrong story)
Chacha Buttees (aka Char Sau Bees) - Pontius Pilate :)
Sanatani - Roman soldier with spear and very short skirt showing sore rectum.
BJKumar - 1st crucified person giving company
Anil - 2nd crucified person giving company
NYCoolest - St. Peter
Ali_1 - Judas
Atif2 - Donkey that Jesus rode into Jerusalem:
Khamakhwa - Jewish faggot dancing with joy at the crucifixion on Via Dolorosa
Aquaris - Barabbas
DM Sahib, Burpy, and Dullabhatti - three dumb guys from the North
HP - Caesar
Folio - St. Paul
Stuka - Pharisee
Ranjit - 2nd Roman soldier with spear and long skirt to hide shortcoming
HisExcellency - 3rd Roman soldier with spear and no skirt
Kamal Sahib - Sympathetic and wise Rabbi
Nauman72 - Learned Greek
Chaltahoo - Maker of the crown of thorns
FarzanaVersey - The Goddess Athena (yes, she was watching, too :)

Other positive interactors - disciples waiting to spread the gospel
Other negative interactors - spectators enjoying the crucifixion
Chowk Staff - The Holy Ghost

Re: # 489

LOL

Aquaris = Barabbas.....!!

...perhaps your insinuations were about the Person, who was set free, instead of Jesus
by Pontius Pilate at the Passover .


But there is more to it...

`` Barabbas was a member of the sicarii, a militant Jewish movement that sought to overthrow the Roman occupiers of their land by force`` Mark (15:7)

But perhaps you have meant..

He is called a terrorist in the Contemporary English Version of the Bible


One Man`s Terrorist other mans Freedom fighter.



..... your earlier interacts regarding my posts are a testament to it...

LOL and LOL and LOL again.

keep smiling.. nonetheless..