With or Without Musharraf – A Mohajir’s Perspective

#202 by Salim_Chauhan on April 12, 2007 1:32pm PT
Zeena #185,
I consider Mushy as almost irrelevant in the future of Mohajirs. I am grateful to him for putting an end to the bloody oppression of Bezamir and Besharif. I appreciate the stable Paki rupee and the much improved economy and modernization of infrastructure. The only reason I would support Mushy is if the return of ``democracy`` under Bezamir or Besharif is imminent. Otherwise, I agree with you - there is no excuse for dictatorship, whether of Ayub, Yahya, Zia, or Mushy. :)


Salim Mian

Here we are in complete agreement. Thanks for your feedback.

Yes, there is no excuse for any dictatorship , even if dictator is my own relative. Thanks

#179 imperio,

Thank you for your detailed response and the substantial amount of information you have shared with us. I think that you have a lot to say and speak from considerable experience. I will provide my comments/suggestions along with your own obviously sincere remarks. :)

{``A very good article Salim......
Now let me come to the point. Most of the guys on this site r either posting their views in the cozy drawing room environs of west or r from elite class of Pakistan or India. They never know the actual realities.

Being from young generation (Unlike mostly oldies in here) and from a middle class and pure Urdu speaking family and still living in this hell (Pakistan), I know the many harsh realities. I have also lived in punjab for many years and know the actual mentality of these punjaibis, from elite ones to common ujad ganwaars of them. ``}

Thank you for reading my article. I remember interacting with you on the Pakistan thread some weeks earlier. Your words sound so seriously sincere that I am moved by their harshness and the sadness in your account. :(

So I have come to the following conclusions...

1. Punjus r what my grandfather opined that they suffer from severe inferiority complex, infact its not a complex they r actually....

Strangely, my own grandfather has nothing good to say about his experiences with Pakistani Punjus - especially at the time of partition. Thankfully, for his descendants, as a young man, mostly out of disgust with the Pakistani Punjaibi elite, he departed for Turkey and changed the course of my own future. :)

2.Right from Ranjit Singh they disown their own culture and try to adopt the Persian and Urdu speaking culture.

I think that Persian is a very superior language because of its sweet, refined, and civilized manner of speaking. Even in Turkey, Farsi was for the refined, the poet, and the literate. Actually they used three languages - Turkish for administration and military affairs, Arabic for religious indoctrination, but Farsi for entertainment, literary pursuits, poetry, and literature. Even today Urdu, which borrows heavily from Farsi, is the lingua franca of India and Pakistan. I think that we should preserve Urdu for cultural reasons, but promote English in Karachi as the language of international commerce and technology.

3. The punjus both muslim and non-muslims carried out mass murders of Urdu speaking muslims of Delhi and surrounding areas and UP during the so called Ghadar of 1857. Infact this enemity b/w Ganga Jamni Culture and punjaibi culture is very old. On one hand these punjus hated the Hindustanis ( Hindustan was in old times actually the name of areas of UP, Delhi and parts of Haryana like Gurgoan and Panipat etc) and on the other hand tried to adopt their language and culture.

My friend, if it were not for Shaheed Bhagat Singh and the brave patriots of Jillian Walla Bagh, almost ALL Punjabis would be considered traitors to India as far as helping the British is concerned. During the 1857 ``Ghadr,`` Punjabi forces helped to put down the united rebellion of Hindus and Muslims of UP, Bihar, Bengal, Delhi, Haryana, CP, and elsewhere.

4. During British Raj, unfortunately some pure Urdu speaking areas were transferred to United punjab and Urdu and Persian were made the official languages. This was a huge mistake and we the Muhajirs are bearing the brunt of these grave follies.

The British wanted to favor the loyal ``martial`` races over the rebellious and suspected Pandeys.

5. So these punjus instead of fighting for their own language to be imposed as official one, they welcomed Urdu as they want to become cultured and mannered as their own culture and language was and still is and will remain one of the most rude, crude and stupid one. Instances of which can be seen in the posts of some of these folks here......

Obviously they learned our sweet language, but we failed to inject them with the accompanying and mandatory tehzeeb, which is so blatantly lacking in their posts on Chowk. :(


6. Urdu speaking muslims carried out the campaigns of educating these poorest muslim punjus right from Shah Wali Ullah, Ismail Shaheed, Sir Syed and many others. Even all the religious activism and reformation was carried out by Urdu speakers whether Deobandi, Barelvi, Ahle- Hadith or Ithna Ashari. None of these punjus had any educational or religious caliber.
That is exactly why they say ``Mind your own business,`` my friend. By meddling in their education, their religion, and their daily lives, our ancestors created an unnecessary enmity and a great deal of resentment among them. Perhaps their Sikh masters knew exactly how to treat them. The more I get to know Pakistani Punjaibis, the more I appreciate Sikhs. :)

7. Partition of India was the greatest tragedy of 20th century in my eyes. It was the greatest mistake on part of our fore fathers ( I mean only of Urdu speakers) to fight for independence. They knew that their areas will not be included in Pakistan but still they continued their struggle and handed out a ready made pudding for punjus and other pissr-e-zameens of this so called Holy land.

I agree with you. It was the 2nd greatest tragedy of the 20th century, right after the Holocaust, and right before the Hiroshima/Nagasaki blasts, and the Russian pogroms. I think that the naive Muslims of UP never really wanted partition and some of them even held out the ridiculous hope of a ``corridor`` through UP. I think that Jinnah and the ML pulled a fast one on our ancestors. :(

We have suffered a lot because of this partition. Still majority of our brothers r living in India. Most of our families are divided. We have lost thousands of our brothers and sisters during the mass murders conducted by Ayub, Bhutto, Zia, Benazir and Nawaz.

We should mourn the past, even curse the present, but we must always hope for the future. Ayub, Bhutto, and Zia are all dead and hopefully rotting in hell. :) Let`s build a strong Karachi/Hyderabad that our descendants can be proud of and let`s make peace with ALL in our neighborhood - Sindhis, Punjabis, Baluchis, Indians, Pathans, and Kashmiris.

The establishment in the form of MQM has given us the most effective slow poison. This party was and will never fight for our rights. It can only terrorize and kill us. We shud now find a real representative for our ethnic group as we can never vote for PPP, PML or religous fanatic parties.

As I indicated in this article, let`s learn diversity, have tolerance of dissent, and not place all our faith in one party, one leader, or even one slogan. Let`s look at ALL of our options. MQM is changing, but hopefully it won`t become another PPP or ML(N). I trust the Mullahs and military just a bit more than the proven and guilty PPP ``liberal`` elitists.


Mushy is no sympathizer for us.. that notion is totally wrong. He is a Punjabi from his accent to his mindset. Let me accept one historical fact, Muhajirs who attain some higher position totals forget their own ethnic group while people of other ethnicities bestow unimaginable favours upon their people.

Imperio, my brother, you are so right about Mohajirs. Somehow, we have this stupid arrogance to believe that we need to be totally blind when hiring and recommending people. A Mohajir almost NEVER helps another Mohajir - somehow we are firm believers in ``everyone for himself/herself.`` What happens is that our poor are poorer than others, our weak are weaker than others, and our own are ``stranded`` in a foreign land. Let`s resolve to help each other, especially those at the bottom of the financial ladder. We should conserve our charity for our own cities and not squander it on people who will always hate us.

We can neither live with democratic dictators nor military ones. Pakistan is only beneficial for punjus and no one else. They have benefited so much from this country and also looted it to hell. All other ethnic groups want independence so I m afraid that these punjaybis will not be able to do so any more. Future of Pakistan is very bleak as it`s an unnatural state.

Yes, I too am ready to give up on Pakistan. It never was and never will be our country. We will never become equals until we learn to become independent in our own area, with our own secular democracy, and our own institutions. Punjabis and Mohajirs are very different people - just like TNT. Our cultures, our languages, our food, and even the way we talk and joke around differ in a polarized manner. We should respect each other, but be allowed to go our separate ways.

#177 nycoolest {``Salim Bahi Jaan, Congratulations to have the article. It was very well written and have a good prospective of Mohajir politics. The suggestions you gave out were also thought provoking.
...I also don’t think the level of racism Mohajir faced in Pakistan was more then the Indian Muslims have faced providing the fact that there are numerous riots like Gujrat, incidents like Babri Masjid and major differences with Hindu majority.

...I believe the era of Mohajir and non Mohajir political war is about to end. The clash is now between social classes (rich, poor and middle) and how to determine the role of religion in Pakistani society. ``}

NYCoolest Bhayya,
Thanks for this encouraging post and your very rational and logical viewpoint. So, would it be correct to say that the goon who hits us on the head only 5 times a day is twice as nice as the goon who wants to hit us on the head 10 times a day?

I agree with you that ethnic violence is not the path to success. I also agree that we Mohajirs have to be sympathetic, if not helpful, to the millions of serfs toiling under the yoke of Punju and Sindhi vaderas, chaudhrys, and feudal landlords. Let`s hope that the ethnic hatred takes a back seat to economic and industrial progress. But judging from the Paki Punju Paindoo posts on this article, I doubt that the hatred has diminished at all. You know what they say about back seats ....:)

#175 by klpd on April 12, 2007 9:13am PT
Re: # 174
{``abay chutiay``}

Ali_1,
SHUT UP!
What kind of stupid name is klpd?

#174 by Indian on April 12, 2007 8:56am PT
{``Salim,
Great article. Couldn`t have agreed more``}

Dear Hindustani,
Thanks for reading the article and providing your feedback. :)

{``#170 by Folio on April 12, 2007 8:30am PT
Whereas Indian Muslims find east Punjab as a better place for life & employment/business how come mohajirs are running away from west Punjab??????? ``}

Folio Bhai,
Obviously East Punjab has more decent, less myopic, and more enlightened natives. :)

Re: # 212
abay tu meray sawal ka jawab kyoN nahiN deyta

#200 klpd
regarding my post {`` It is an inferior status imposed on migrants and their descendants by the mostly Punjabi power structure of Pakistan}

klpd wrote:
{``salim - that is not true - mohajirs call themselves as such - what was that MQM stood for again``}

klpd,
Please read my words again - It is an inferior status imposed on migrants...

I said ``status`` not a ``name`` Yes, Mohajirs call themselves Mohajirs in response to Punjus calling us ``HindustaaNRas`` and Pathans calling us ``Panha Guzeer.`` It is similar to what African Americans went through when whites were calling them everything under the sun (Negro, Coloured People, N wod, etc..), so they decided to call themselves BLACK - although many of them were hardly black in pigmentation.

Salim sahib:

Have you examined and do you know why Mohajir`s migrated all the way from the U.P., Delhi and Bihar to all the way to Karachi?

They must have crossed through west Punjab, and could have easily settled there. As these were the greener or purer (depending upon the perspective) pastures too.

Was there any violence against them in west Punjab to force them to continue to Karachi?

#217, anil {``Salim sahib:
Have you examined and do you know why Mohajir`s migrated all the way from the U.P., Delhi and Bihar to all the way to Karachi? ``}

Anil Bhai,
Very good question and one that has been answered by someone earlier on Chowk. He narrated how his ancestors, upon arrival by train in Lahore, were directed to board trains waiting to take them to Karachi. There apparently was a deliberate policy of sending all non-Punjabi refugees to Karachi. Obviously, the Urdu-speakers were not welcome in West Punjab.

You are right about greenery and more familiar surrounding. The people from UP would probably have preferred the relatively lush, more seasonal, less desert, and more familiar area of West Punjab to Sindh. Only Rajasthanis can appreciate the beauty of the desert. :)

Re: # 210


you are ignoring a very crucial factor here...


sindhis..... Sindh is their Land.


and in the politest terms... `` Sindh kissi ka Bap ki Jageer naheen hey ``.

Re: # 169

On second thought.


its true. Indians have learned to appreciate and acknowledge the interdependence among the various communities, ethnic groups, and Others.

for example, the Eastern Punjab, is the grainary for India, their farmer gets subisdized and sometimes free electivity for his farm. and No ONE, from anywhere else says that the Indian Punjabi is giving them a raw deal, they respect and appreciate this , 3 % of the Sikhs, can have [ ..... what..... over 30% or is it over 40% ... representation in the Army...... please correct me, I do not have exact figures... but still ... a very large proportion ...] yet no one questions that.... same goes for Other regions, every One acknowledges and appreciates the comparative advantages, no one tries to pULL the Rug from under the Feets, just because the majority , on whose shoulders, some one was thinking of reviving the RULE..... is now standing at Par, and thus lost is utility.


...... Period.

#171 Chaudhry Allah-ditta BUTT

wrong name.
his correct name is Chaudhary Allah Ditta Natt :-)

#201 Salim

Okay Salim, I agree that this interactor should not have called you “haram khoar”! That was wrong. Sorry. (Good you kept your cool!)

It is rather pathetic to see certain people make a futile effort to sneak back into this web-site using the crutches of your write-up when they have countless times announced that they are leaving – that they are done with this site because their “demands” have been ignored – that there is only “one thing” which will make them come back – and that they have “moved on” with life!

Moved on – my foot!

Such liars!

They are firmly stuck in the same muck – like everybody else!

Here is what is REALLY going on.

Another writer (I am not naming who) gets over a thousand interacts, publishes a book, and does a few other things on the side – that makes certain older writers feel VERY jealous – so they look for a face-saving way to sneak back in – then this write-up shows up! Who are they kidding!

Just telling it like it is! Won’t mention it again – unless somebody makes me do so! So there!

Now about your article!

The mohajirs chose a destination – for whatever reasons! It was called Pakistan.

You were and are the immigrants to that new country! It is your duty to shed your old identity (be it ``Bihari`` or whatever else) and assume absolute loyalty to the country that you all adopted. The worst thing that you can do to your country of adoption is to try to damage it by breaking it up.

Your focus needs to be on improving the country that you adopted! You do not accomplish that purpose by whining about “how lousy they are treating us!” For, if there are indeed Pakistanis who do not like mohajirs because of who they are – tell me, are you not making their hands stronger with your current approach? By becoming a nuisance, you “turn off” those who are not really opposed to you! So try to be a little bit self-sacrificing!

Try winning hearts – not scoring points! Don`t ask for ``acceptance`` as a Pakistani - BE ONE! And be a good one - so others will follow!

You think I am telling you something new?!! How about the following?

“Ask not what your country can do for you!”

YOU know how JFK completed the above!

If the going is tough – so be it! Make the best of it! Keep trying to improve your country. And do it in the right way! The number of mohajirs is (probably) too small – your impact will be limited. But through reasoning with the rest of the population, you can make it work.

The Jewish population in the US is only 2 percent, like the Sikhs in India, but just like those Sikhs in India – it has a good level of clout! That is because this tiny segment does things the right way, does them for the right reasons, and nobody doubts their own loyalty to their motherland!

At least, unlike the Jewish folks, the mohajirs did not get killed en-masse!

Unlike the Palestinians, the mohajirs were not kicked out of their homeland.

Who does not have grievances?!!

The really strong people rise above their grievances – they do not stay stuck in the muck! For years and years!

Use reason – not the whining criticism, which seems to be the main theme of this piece – unless, after seeing where exactly all the whining criticizers end up, you simply wish to emulate the same.

#196 Clifton Bridge

Good Lord, now even a whole bridge is in ``love`` with me!

re: Bulleya

You mentioned that there is no hierarchy Islam but the point is that it exists; there is a heirarchy in Islam and this particular heirarchy issues fatwas. Fatwas maybe an opinion without force, but when the self-declared guardians of Islam, i.e. the clergy issue fatwas and then by enforce them by force and violence, then the fatwas can no longer be considered as simple opinions. When opinions are enforced upon with force, the defination of such an act can be rightfully called as intolerance. Hence, fatwas in Islam, in the present sense, are internationally considered as expressions of intolerance.

Parenthetically speaking, there will be hardly any progress towards a better situation for Muslims in the world as long as they keep on thinking that just because Islam does not allow something, that particular thing does not exist in Islam. The Muslims have to step outside of their denials and admit to themselves that there is a problem within their religion and within themselves. They have to admit that there is gulf of disharmony between their believes about their religion and how they practice their religion.

This is what annoys the world; the inability of the Muslims to realize the disconnect between their words and actions and their continued persistence to exist in a realm of denials.

Ciao