With or Without Musharraf – A Mohajir’s Perspective

Re: # 222
abay bjbhayya - you crawled out of this. Now go back in it.

#225

Abey Godot, cut it out!

Everybody knows it is you (and it was you the last time around also, on the ``Spring`` board!)

And everybody knows who put you up to it both times!

(Yawn!)

Salim bhai

Nice article.

#225

Since you seemed to enjoy it so much...

For your viewing pleasure, here is a picture of Yasser and Mrs. Yasser working hard on the looks of the ORIGINAL mohajir...

Mohamed Ali Jinnah!

Ferozek #224: ``This is what annoys the world; the inability of the Muslims to realize the disconnect between their words and actions and their continued persistence to exist in a realm of denials.``

If the point being discussed is Islam, then all arguments are made within the borders of Islam. And in Islam, there is no religious hierarchy. If the argument is being made, within the realms of politics, then one can argue that there are hierarchies that do exist. The original argument was within the boundaries of Islam....

I am not sure whether the annoyance of the world will change anything. The world, at the moment, is far more annoyed at the USA than at any Muslim country. However, that is not going to change the behavior of the USA.

People do not work and change behaviors based on what someone else thinks of them. They do so, based on the events taking place in their surroudings. The factor driving the emotions of Muslims is the violence that is taking place in their areas.

I have thought about this for a long time. If you do the calculations, far more Muslims are being killed than doing the killing. Take a look at Iraq. 650k Iraqis killed, after 4k Americans were killed in an incidence in which Iraqis were not involved. It is the emotions of relatives of the 650k Arabs who have been killed that is going to define their actions. I doubt they will care what the world thinks or doesn`t thinks. I belive same is the case in other areas, like Palestine, Chechnya etc..........

Hence, I really don`t think anything will change until the dynamics of the argument is shifted to reducing the killings of Muslims and reducing the occupation of Muslim lands. If for no other reason, then because, once someone is killed, those in his/her surroundings lose all site of reality and are driven by one emotion: revenge.

So one can make arguments about Islam and moderation until one is blue in the face. It will not have any affect until the violence around the Muslims who have little dependence on the West (non expat Muslims) is reduced.

There are some countries which are the exception: Pakistan being one. Pakistan has not been attacked by the West, yet it is also turning violently anti-West. While one can understand the anger of those Pakistanis in Waziristan who have been bombed by Americans, the behavior of the remaining Pakistanis who are becoming militantly anti-West is hard to explain.

Re: # 226
abay chutya - Gaandee ke hole maiN reh reh kr tera deemagh suR chuka hai bay

I am slowly coming to the conclusion that Chowk is an attempt by Urdu speaking Muhajir Pakistanis to infiltrate and influence the minds of us non-Muhajirs…….There are far too many facts that point to this theory…….Consider:

Who started Chowk?……A group of Urdu speakers…….How come not a single Punjabi speaker was in the team?........Granted we are not too intelligent and our idea of culture and poetry is limited to the lyrics of Abrar-ul-Haq and Daler Mehndi…….But still, there must be someone amongst us with some intellect…….

Who are the Pakistan featured writers on Chowk?........All Muhajirs and/or those who live in Karachi…….Other than Ferozek, who is also half-Muhajir (does this imply he migrated half-way?)…….Even the sole Punjabi they selected, NHK, actually lives in Karachi!.....Don’t the non-Muhajirs have anything to offer here?........How come none of us are featured writers?.......We do have some talent……While he is moving on in age and, like Eddie Murphy, is becoming stale, however Punjabi hamidm2 mian, on his day, can still be funny……What about his protege, young Atif, with his erotically vulgur humor…….Who can deny that he is well on his way to becoming Pakistan’s own Chris Rock………Punjabi Urstruly, every now and then, does make some sense……..And while we all know Sind has nothing to offer, our lone Sindhi ranger, HP, still tries to convince us that it does……..That’s got to be worth something!!.......

And what about the ladies…….How come only Muhajir ladies are featured?.....Every single one of them is a featured writer…..We know they aren`t all Parveen Shakirs......Granted Punjabi ladies are still learning to add, but they outweigh the Muhajir ladies in other areas. …….What about our resident Punjaban, ZahraJ?......She works out daily in a gym, as she keeps telling us (even when we don’t ask)…….She has finely toned biceps, and could kick the ass of all the Muhajir girls on this site, single-handedly…….That’s got to be worth something!!…..

And when the Muhajir management was transferred, it was transferred to another Urdu-speaking lady…….And to add insult to injury, it was transferred across the border!!........Is there not a single non-Muhajir in Pakistan who could have handled this responsibility?........(not that I have anything against Farzana)…….

What’s next?........I think the day isn’t far away, when our Muhajir management will go to the extent of by-passing Pakistani Punjabis and will start inviting Punjabis from the wrong side of the border to be featured…….I wouldn’t be surprised if Dost-mittar becomes a featured writer before any Pakistani non-Muhajir……

Now we have to put up with the stuff written by Salim_Chauhan…….All of this is nothing but a subliminal attempt to convince the non-Muhajirs that the richest community in Pakistan, i.e. Muhajirs are being exploited by the poorer communities……..Chowk is assisting in this by keeping all the non-Muhajirs busy in typing long posts, while the Muhajirs type their shorts ones, and move onto more productive tasks…….the Muhajir men getting busy in starting software companies, and the Muhajir women getting busy in writing third rate English novels…….

And how in the world did someone named Chauhan end up in Karachi, in the first place………When all the other Chauhans ended up in Punjab?........His sense of direction seems to have been wrong from the get-go……..

What a beautiful depiction!

An artist’s rendering of a new dawn in Pakistan!

A beautiful morning – when all the minorities, including the mohajirs, finally start living in peace and harmony!

The nation’s denizens start rising to the promised heights of glory!

Nobody is shut up within the four walls of their houses as prisoners.

To the tune of beautiful music!

The men, the women, and the Mantos – all of them side by side!

#224 other side of this ``there is no heirarchy in Islam...everyone can interpret it on his own`` theory is that then everyone does interpret it the way he wants.
suppose on one hand we have interpretation of Bulleya (real or the virtual one..your pick) and on the other hand say it is Zwahiri...err..Zeemax. Whose interpretion are others supposed to take as the correct one? we kafirs by our love of Bulleh Shah, Rumi and even our own Tahmed have demonstrated time and again that we would love to believe that their`s is the true interpretation. Why would the world have an issue with it? no reason.

and then you see zwahiri or Zeemax threatening with bombs and beheadings...and...since us kafirs love our lives...we start having second thoughts about it. can you blame kafirs for it?:-)

#231 Romair

Abey Romair, you may be on to something here!!

Or at least ON something!

Re: # 231
Pakistan-Mohajirs= Zero M=10000 P=-10000 , P-M= -20,000
Pakistan+Mohajirs=Mohajirs M-P=+20,000


Generally speaking Punjabis and Sindhi are retard (mentally) compared MQM followers that is problem so they started Quotas or retards will not get admitted.( only YLH is exception in scholarship and secular philosophy and intelluctual capacity) These are like jews of Arab lands. Balochis and Pathans is state of mind. That is why they are clustered in Karachi and not other places. They can not live in bad lands and backward lands of heartlands. Retards are controlled envy, jolousy and greed about work and the achievements. Its same as jews are hated in their old lands of easter Europe and they moved to usa. Let us hope retards do not force intelligent followers of MQM to depart for west.

If you take out contributions of of these refugees then Pakistan is big zero.
We can not advance as retards can not tolerate them but at same time they can not do jobs what others are doing. That is reason this better people live in small urban sindh areas.

Arrival of MQM followers is best thing happened to this land.
Hope General can whip retards so they learn something.
I am tired of anti MQM followers and their propaganda against them, instead retards should work hard and study and hit their womenfilks less be human.

Only in looks ( color complexion ) retards have edge some of them are little fairer but many retards are are darker than even Indians.
Instead of blaming others for their miseries retards should think why dark people land of karachi and hyderbad are like west compared to others parts.

Salim Mian

What is your perspective on General Musharaf`s future?

I mean you seem to be a learned guy on this issue.
I am curious, how you see General Musharaf`s future?
Will He be elected? will he remain President?
Will he remain army chief?

Care to share.

Thanks

Salim Mian

My pick for PM would be Imran Khan.
Can you compare Imran Khan with General Musharaf as the head of the state?

Thanks again

Bulleya writes <<< If the point being discussed is Islam, then all arguments are made within the borders of Islam. And in Islam, there is no religious hierarchy. If the argument is being made, within the realms of politics, then one can argue that there are hierarchies that do exist. The original argument was within the boundaries of Islam.... >>>

Bulleya is correct. As usual, Feroz is obsessed with pushing the official version of US BS (Bull shit) around the world. The groups within Islam that have constructed heirarchies and official authorizations to monger fatwas are by no means unique in the world of religion, so Feroz`s alarmism about Islam (as if such is unique in the world) is quite fake, these hierarchies and official authorizations to pronounce fatwas are, as Bulleya is saying, contrary to the spirit of the message presented in the Quran therefore they are un-Islamic, and whether they are heard or given prominence ``de facto``, is due to political precedent at the time. They do not determine anything, they are determined themselves.

Confusing such a causal connection and placing independant causation of events with the mullahs that monger fatwas is deliberate obfuscation of the real issues and deliberate attempt at clouding what really determines affairs in the global arena, the US corporate garrison state and its higher immorality. The mullah cannot match up to that in keeping Muslims subordinate, they are mere whores used by the higher terrorists as part of the process to deny not only Muslims but the vast majority of humankind equal access to the earth and its material resources...

More so than the Mullahs, legitimizers of this system of immoral oppression, like Feroz and his ilk are the major cause of lack of consciousness among Muslims and other oppressed folk in this world. Their infantile pseudo scholarship is evident to everyone that can think critically but due to political precedent their view gets broadcast (together with the Mullahs) while alternatives are blocked.

#231 by bulleya

If you can read this then you will know who makes more sense a Sindhi or a person who can only write nonsensical articles on the net and assumes that he is actually writing about something which is actually nothing...

ڊاڪٽر مير عالم مري

تازو سپريم ڪورٽ آف پاڪستان ملڪ جي مختلف علائقن مان گم ٿيل ماڻهن جي ڪيس جي ٻڌڻي ٻيهر شروع ڪئي آهي. هن وقت تائين گم ٿيل ماڻهن جي جيڪا لسٽ سامهون آئي آهي، ان ۾ ٽن قسمن جا ماڻهو شامل آهن.

(1 ) منو ڀيل هاري جي خاندان جي گم ٿيل گهر ڀاتين جو مسئلو.

(2 ) مذهبي شدت پسند ۽ جهادي تنظيمن جي متحرڪ ڪارڪنن جي گمشدگيءَ جو مسئلو.

(3 ) سنڌ ۽ بلوچستان جي سياسي ڪارڪنن جي گمشدگيءَ جو مسئلو.

ٽنهي قسمن جي ماڻهن جا ڌار ڌار ڪيس ٻڌڻي هيٺ آهن. ڪجهه گم ٿيل ماڻهن جي مائٽن، دوستن ۽ تنظيمن پاران پوئواري ٿئي پئي ته ڪجهه وري ڪنهن کي به ياد ڪونهن. چيف جسٽس آف پاڪستان چوڌري افتخار حسين جي معطلي بعد پيدا ٿيل عدالتي بحران دوران اهو انديشو ٿي پيو هو ته هاڻي انهيءَ ڪيس جي ڪا به پيروي ڪو نه ٿيندي، پر جلد ئي سپريم ڪورٽ پاران اهڙين درخواستن جي ٻڌڻي شروع ڪرڻ سان هڪ دفعو ٻيهر اميد جو ڪرڻو پيدا ٿي پيو آهي. منو ڀيل جي گهرڀاتين جي گمشدگيءَ کان سواءِ باقي جيڪي به ماڻهو گم ٿيا آهن، اهي پنهنجن مذهبي·سياسي خيالن سبب گم ڪيا ويا آهن.

جيتوڻيڪ انساني حقن جي نقطهءِ نگاهه توڙي انصاف جي حوالي سان، رياست جي هر شهري جو اهو بنيادي قانوني ۽ انساني حق آهي ته کيس ٻڌايو وڃي ته کيس ڪهڙي الزام تحت گرفتار ڪيو پيو وڃي، ان جي مائٽن·دوستن کي ان جي گرفتاري متعلق ٻڌايو وڃي. ساڻس ملڻ لاءِ مائٽن ۽ دوستن کي حق ڏنو وڃي، کيس پنهنجي بچاءَ جو قانوني حق ڏنو وڃي ۽ انصاف ڀرئي طريقي سان سندس گرفتاري ظاهر ڪري عدالت ذريعي سندس ڏوهي يا بيڏوهي هجڻ جو تعين ڪيو وڃي، پر هتي صورتحال وري ان جي بلڪل ابتڙ ۽ افسوسناڪ آهي. ڏينهن ڏٺي جو پوليس ۽ ٻين حساس ادارن جا اهلڪار، ڪڏهن باوردي ته ڪڏهن بي وردي ماڻهن کي گرفتار ڪريو وڃن ۽ گم ڪريو ڇڏين. اهڙين گرفتارين جون خبرون بروقت، ميڊيا ۾ رپورٽ به ٿيون آهن، پر اهلڪار، عدالتن ۾ ”ڪوڙا قسم“ کنيو چون ته اسان نه گرفتار ڪيو آهي ۽ نه ڪا اسان کي خبر آهي. انساني حقن جي اهڙي کليل ڀڃڪڙي سبب جديد پرنٽ ۽ اليڪٽرانڪ ميڊيا ذريعي پاڪستان جي بين الاقوامي سطح تي شهرت متاثر ٿي آهي، پر سرڪار کي ڄڻ پرواهه ئي ڪونهي. اُٽلندو هاڻي مشرف سرڪار عالمي سطح تي اهو تاثر ڏيڻ جي ڪوشش ڪري رهي آهي ته اهي گم ٿيل ماڻهو مذهبي شدت پسند ۽ جهادي تنظيمن وٽ آهن. جيئن ته عالمي سطح تي، دهشتگردي خلاف جنگ جو ماحول جڙيل آهي، جنهن جو سڀ کان وڏو نشانو مذهبي هٿياربند تنظيمون آهن، تنهن ڪري مشرف حڪومت اهو سمجهي ٿي ته ان قسم جي دعويٰ ڪرڻ سان پاڪستان حڪومت خلاف عالمي دٻاءُ گهٽجي ويندو. ڇاڪاڻ جو مذهبي انتهاپسندن خلاف ڪارروائيءَ ۾ انساني حقن جون ڀڃڪڙيون ڪرڻ باوجود به عالمي طاقتور ڌريون رنج ٿيڻ بجاءِ خوشي جو اظهار ڪنديون.

مذهبي شدت پسند تنظيمن تي ٿيندڙ تنقيد ۽ لڳندڙ الزامن سان متفق هجڻ باوجود، اهو ڪنهن به صورت ۾ انصاف پسند ماڻهن لاءِ قابلِ قبول ڪونهي ته ڪنهن به شخص کي سندس عقيدت ۽ خيالن جي بنياد تي ايئن گرفتار ۽ گم ڪيو وڃي، جو نه ته سندس وارثن کي ان متعلق ڪا ڄاڻ هجي ۽ نه کيس پنهنجي قانوني بچاءَ جو حق ملي. رهيو سوال ته صدر جنرل پرويز مشرف پاران گم ٿيل ماڻهن بابت اها دعويٰ ڪرڻ ته اهي جهادي تنظيمن وٽ هوندا، ان جا ٻه مقصد ٿي سگهن ٿا. هڪ ته عالمي دٻاءُ کي گهٽايو وڃي ۽ ٻيو مقصد سنڌ ۽ بلوچستان جي سياسي ڪارڪنن جي سيڪيولر فڪر کان انڪار ڪرڻ آهي. سنڌ ۽ بلوچستان جا سياسي ڪارڪن، ڪڏهن به ۽ ڪنهن به صورت ۾ نه مذهبي تنظيمن سان رهيا آهن ۽ نه گڏ ٿي سگهن ٿا. ان جو تازو ثبوت ۽ مثال هيءُ آهي ته کڻي جو گم ٿيل ماڻهو مذهبي تنظيمن جا به آهن، پر پوءِ به سنڌ ۽ بلوچستان جي قومپرست جماعتن اڄ ڏينهن تائين گم ٿيل ڪارڪنن جي مسئلي تي مذهبي جماعتن سان ڪڏهن به گڏيل احتجاج به نه ڪيو آهي ۽ ڪرڻ به نه گهرجي، ڇاڪاڻ جو ايئن ڪرڻ سان، سنڌي ۽ بلوچ قومپرست تحريڪن جو سيڪيولر چهرو ۽ روح متاثر ٿيڻ جو انديشو آهي، کڻي جو مسئلو گڏيل آهي.

آخر سنڌ جي گم ٿيل ڪارڪنن جي ايم ڀڳت ۽ چيتن بجير جهڙن غير مسلم ڪارڪنن جو مذهبي جهادي تنظيمن سان ڪهڙو تعلق ٿي سگهي ٿو؟

ڪالهه، جيڪا سپريم ڪورٽ ۾ ان معاملي بابت شنوائي ٿي، ان ۾ ايڊيشنل اٽارني جنرل پنهنجي بيوسي، عدالت آڏو بيان ڪندي چيو ته، گهرو کاتو سندس ڪا به ڳالهه ٻڌڻ لاءِ ۽ سهڪار ڪرڻ لاءِ تيار ئي ڪونهي. عدالت وري جڏهن اٽارني جنرل کي طلب ڪيو ته اهو صاحب اچڻ لاءِ ئي تيار نه ٿيو. اها صورتحال آهي، جنهن ۾ خود ملڪ جي سڀ کان اعليٰ عدالت سپريم ڪورٽ جي به ڪو ٻڌڻ لاءِ تيار ڪونهي. اهڙي حالت ۾ نه رڳو عدالتي وقار، اختيار ۽ بالادستيءَ جو سوال اهميت اختيار ڪري وڃي ٿو، پر گڏوگڏ گم ٿيل ڪارڪنن جي وارثن ۾ به اها تشويش پيدا ٿيڻ فطري ڳالهه آهي ته آخر سندن ٻچڙن·جوانن جو ڇا ٿيندو؟

ان مسئلي تي اي آر ڊي جي سرد مهري به نوٽ ڪرڻ جهڙي آهي. مسلم ليگ (ن) ۽ پيپلز پارٽي پنهنجي گڏيل ميثاقِ جمهوريت ۾ اهو ته واضح ڪري ڇڏيو ته سياست مان ايجنسين جي مداخلت بند ٿيڻ گهرجي، پر اهي عملي طور تي هيڏي ساري اشو تي ٻه لفظ به ڳالهائڻ لاءِ تيار ناهن، جو سوين ماڻهن کي حساس ادارن جا اهلڪار گرفتار ڪري کڻي ويا. کين گم ڪيو ويو ۽ سندن متعلق ڪنهن عدالت کي به خاطر ۾ نٿو آندو وڃي ته پوءِ آخر سياست مان ايجنسين جي مداخلت جي خاتمي جو سکڻو نعرو ڪيترا ڏينهن هلندو؟ منهنجي خيال موجب اي آر ڊي پنهنجي ئي پڌرنامي کي عملي شڪل ڏيڻ لاءِ گم ٿيل ماڻهن جي مسئلي تي Stand

وٺڻ لاءِ سياسي طور پابندد آهي

#235 by ahmedmadani

.....only YLH is exception in scholarship and secular philosophy and intelluctual capacity

ROTFL!!! Madani Sahib, you just made our day! That was a great joke.