Talibanization of Pakistan

Please read the answer to point 5 of hamidm2 in #115 as ``How big a beard did Syed Qutb who started it all have?

#114 by Tehsinabbasi,

Very disappointing post Tehseen Saheb. It appears your fears are quite baseless and you can`t substantiate them.

As you say, ``...but then again he could have an epiphany – wake up one morning choose a more restrictive ayah...``, it`s always a possibility, but then you could get hit by a truck while crossing the road tomorrow, that`s always a possibility. But it doesn`t stop you from waking up and going to work. Does it?

I hoped you were going to do better.

Rgds.

#111 by hamidm2

zeemax, ``What do you think are the negative implications upon civil society`` Here are the top 10 .....

Ok. Let`s examine these one by one seriously:

1. 50% of he population (women) will be classified as 2nd class citizens to be beaten if they venture outside their homes without the burqa

On what evidence do you say that? Sharia law is right now in force in the entire Malakand/Swat as well as the entire FATA. Plus, there`s a `Hasba` Force established by law in Peshawar. I haven`t heard of any woman being beaten. Have you?

2. ahmedis, christians, hindoos and other dhimmis will be forced to wear distinctive clothing and pay a special tax

Were any of the large Afghan-Sikh community during Taliban rule made to wear distinct clothing or to pay dhimmi tax?

3. apostates, heretics and atheists will be hunted down and killed

Yes. Nothing wrong with that. So were the communists during the Hoover years.

4. pigs and dogs will be persecuted

Maybe. That shouldn`t worry you too much unless you consider yourself one.

5. barbers will be shot and people without beards will be whipped

How big a beard did Syed Qutb have? It will remain a matter of choice.

6. musicians will be killed and actors will be stoned

Why? Was Cat Stevens killed and stoned?

7. people will be forced to pray five times a day

Noone was `forced` to pray even by Umar.

8. people will be killed for not fasting

Same as above.

9. films and television will only fature bearded men speaking in arabic

This is silly.

10. toothpaste and deodrant will be banned

Same as above.

............. on the positive side, men will be allowed to have sex with concubines, gilmans and sheep .........

Perhaps in your household :) I won`t mind a `kaneez` or two myself ! :))

#105 by zeemax


Like you pointed out this Mullah is fairly liberal in terms of allowing his wife to drive and shop but then again he could have an epiphany – wake up one morning choose a more restrictive ayah, an example from sirah or find another hadith and change his stance. Arbitrary power, followed with legitimacy from the holy law, backed by God and beyond death ultimate salvation? Do you in your right mind could trust any individual, however much his claim to wisdom and piety with such power? Man this would be worse then Hindus in their hey day, they even didn’t allow the Brahmin to be King. We are looking at an unmitigated disaster.

Ultimate Sovereignty may belong to God, but we are not going allow any human to exercise it in his name.

Re: # 107

No, I am not saying that. What I am saying is that:

QA demanded constitutional parity between Hindus and Muslims in a United India. On the other hand Congress offered a constitutional equality between Hindus and Muslims. There is a difference between parity and equality.

Under the constitutional equality the majority rules. For example, in a country where population is 80% Hindu and 20% Muslim and all citizens are equal constitutionally, then there is no way in hell to stop Hindu majority to impose Ram Raj (or secularism) on all subjects of state. But under a system of Parity the minorities enjoy a relative immunity from the tyrrany of majority. This is the Islamic way. So in principle, in an Islamic state Islamic law is not applicable upon non-Muslim subjects of the state. It is a sort on internal autonomy. Of course it is not unlimited autonomy but autonomy it is.

So a glimpse of constitutional equality came to realization when Congress majority formed the government after the election in 1938 and soon afterward imposed Ram Raj in their states. The Muslims subjects were forced to bow before idols of Hindu dieties at the enterance of public offices and schools and children were forced to sing Bande Matrim in schools; things and practices that Muslims find absolutely disgusting and crass. In 1940 when Congress assembleis were dissoved, Muslims all over India celebrated Day of Deliverance and soon afterward on March 23, 1940, in the annual Convention of Muslim League, Muslims demanded a seperate homeland in case the deal with Constitutional Parity did not workout.

Islam under attack says former hostage



Sister Ridley urged Muslims “to not kiss the hand that slaps you” and added: “We cannot get down on our knees in front of those that will attack us – it’s the worst thing you can do.

“We are peaceful, we do not look for confrontation, but nor are we pacifists,” she added.

“If someone attacks me, I promise you I will strike back.”

Sister Ridley went on to voice her support for the Islamic Sharia law and attacked Tony Blair for trying to “dilute” Islam.

She said: “Being a Muslim is very, very simple. You either are or you’re not. It’s like being pregnant.

“You either are pregnant or you’re not. I’ve not heard of anyone being moderately pregnant. I cannot give you a definition of an extremist because I do not know any extremists.”

zeemax,

``What do you think are the negative implications upon civil society``

Here are the top 10 .....

1. 50% of he population (women) will be classified as 2nd class citizens to be beaten if they venture outside their homes without the burqa

2. ahmedis, christians, hindoos and other dhimmis will be forced to wear distinctive clothing and pay a special tax

3. apostates, heretics and atheists will be hunted down and killed

4. pigs and dogs will be persecuted

5. barbers will be shot and people without beards will be whipped

6. musicians will be killed and actors will be stoned

7. people will be forced to pray five times a day

8. people will be killed for not fasting

9. films and television will only fature bearded men speaking in arabic

10. toothpaste and deodrant will be banned

............. on the positive side, men will be allowed to have sex with concubines, gilmans and sheep ..........

Just an impish observation added to #105 :)

Are there really any stakeholders whose interests will be jeopardized with an Islamist victory other than the ones shown below?



Please continue with your response. Sorry for the interruption.

It`s not just pakiland that has been talibanized...islamic fundamentalism has seeped into the paki DNA to the point where pakis are now a new species..homo jihadis`r`us..

The US government was right to put pakis first on the registering with INS/fingerprinting list...

Pakistan-based Muslim group behind attack, journalist says
Articles about organization reason why he was targeted, columnist believes
OMAR EL AKKAD

An Ontario journalist was beaten and threatened with death this week in what is being called a revenge attack for publishing articles critical of a Pakistan-based Muslim group.

Jawaad Faizi, 35, was pulling into the driveway of his editor`s Mississauga home on Tuesday night when a car pulled up behind him. Mr. Faizi had not yet turned off the engine or taken off his seatbelt when he heard the sound of a blast. Before he knew what it was, the sound came again -- this time it was his front windshield being smashed. Three men began assaulting him with bats and yelling Punjabi profanities at him, he said. When the assailants saw Mr. Faizi call 911, he said, they fled.

Mr. Faizi, who worked as a journalist in Pakistan before coming to Canada in 2002, has been writing columns for the Pakistan Post, a Mississauga newspaper, for more than two years. He believes it is his work there, specifically criticism of a powerful Pakistan-based Muslim group, that resulted in the beating.

``It was Idara Minhaj-ul-Quran,`` Mr. Faizi said in an interview yesterday. ``[The attackers] were saying, `Why you publish news about our leader?` ``


Minhaj-ul-Quran is a Pakistan-based Muslim group led by a religious scholar named Muhammad Tahir-ul-Qadri. Mr. Faizi said his own trouble began after Mr. Tahir-ul-Qadri, at a meeting with his followers, pointed to the moon.

Mr. Faizi said that Mr. Tahir-ul-Qadri told his followers he had written the Prophet Mohammed`s name on the surface of the moon. Two weeks ago, his newspaper ran an article -- picked up from a Pakistani news outlet -- that questioned whether Mr. Tahir-ul-Qadri could have done this. Mr. Faizi wrote a column on the topic.

After publication of these and other articles about Minhaj-ul-Quran that the Pakistan Post printed beginning in January, Mr. Faizi said, he and his editor, Amir Arain, began receiving harassing phone calls.

``They were saying very bad words in Punjabi,`` Mr. Arain said. ``They were saying, `You are not a Muslim, you are supporting Christians.` ``

Both the editor and his columnist contacted Peel Regional Police about the calls twice, once in January and again on Monday, the day before Mr. Faizi was beaten. A police spokeswoman confirmed that a 911 call came from outside Mr. Arain`s home on Tuesday night, prompting an investigation. However, she declined to discuss details of that investigation. She was unable to provide more information on the earlier complaints.

One local immigrant journalist said that the attack against Mr. Faizi is part of a climate of media intimidation that prevails in many home countries.

``It wouldn`t surprise me at all,`` said Saleem Samad, editor of the Toronto-based Weekly Durdesh. ``I`ve also had similar experiences.``

Mr. Samad was forced to leave Bangladesh in 2004 after his writings there provoked a wave of intimidation measures and threats. Since coming to Canada, he said, he received threatening calls after writing about Islamic terrorism, while some of his fellow journalists have received threats after reporting on the Tamil Tigers.

``I know these people, they are very intolerant,`` he said. ``Even if they are in Canada, their mindset doesn`t change. They`re intolerant about political opinion, religious opinion, you name it.``

Many complaints about such intimidation come from writers and editors working for small ethnic and religious-based publications. Most journalists volunteer their time and the ones who are paid tend to take on second jobs. Mr. Samad said that he now advises such journalists to find jobs with security companies, both to make a living and for added protection.

Mr. Faizi spent five hours at Trillium Hospital as a result of the attack on Tuesday, suffering injuries to his arms and head. He and his wife kept their children home from school yesterday, and Peel District School Board officials say the board will meet with police to discuss the situation.

``My kids are asking why they didn`t go to school,`` Mr. Faizi said. ``I told them there was an accident and they have to stay at home. I don`t want to say people attacked me; they will be scared more than me.``

Almost exactly eight years ago, Mr. Faizi said, he had a similar experience in Pakistan after he published photos of a wanted terrorist. The subsequent revenge attack also landed him in a hospital.

Don’t fence your graveyard, police tell Ahmadis

* Ahmadis told to remove wall after clerics oppose ‘mini-Rabwah’

LAHORE: Police has asked the Ahamdiyya Community to demolish by today (Friday) a boundary wall on a piece of land it had bought to extend its cemetery, after threats by local clerics who said it was a move to build a “mini-Rabwah”.

The community had bought six acres of land in the outskirts of Lahore to extend an existing cemetery, but local clerics – allegedly from Sunni Tehrik and Tehrik-e-Tahafaz-e-Naomoos-e-Risalat – began to provoke the residents of the locality to oppose the construction of a boundary wall on the land.

The clerics, Daily Times learnt, also made announcements in local mosques and held a couple of demonstrations.

Instead of protecting the community, the police and the local administration are pressuring it to stop the construction and demolish the part of the wall it had already built.

The community had bought the land from an Ahmadi landlord at a place called Handu Gujjar, seven miles from Shalimar Gardens off the Grand Trunk Road going towards Wagah. No local authority or housing society is prepared to offer them space for a cemetery in Lahore.

Part of the land has been a graveyard for 10 years, while the rest of it was vacant. The community had recently begun building a wall around it.

On April 15, 2007, a group of clerics (not from the locality) began to say they would not allow a “mini-Rabwah” in Handu Gujjar. Residents say the place had earlier been peaceful and there was complete inter-communal harmony.

On April 16, the Mughalpura SP summoned representatives of the Ahmadiyya Community and a group of clerics and told them to come to the Manawan police station to “show their strength” knowing that Ahmadis are a minority.

This mobilised the clerics, who used loudspeakers and mosques to urge people to “unite against Ahmadis”. They were able to gather about 150 clerics and madrassa students the next day, convincing the Ahmadis to abandon the “illegal construction”.

Later, the SP said the clerics now wanted the height of the boundary wall lowered from 6 feet high to 4 feet, with barbed wire on the top. In the evening, a group of clerics delivered more speeches on loudspeakers and consequently, a group of 500 to 600 men gathered to give the Ahmadiyya Community a “10-day ultimatum” to demolish the boundary wall.

The SP then told Ahmadis to either demolish the wall or let the government do it, lest a mob of mullahs demolished it itself, which he said police could not stop.

Two days ago, the Ahmadiyya Community received a notice from the local town authority that the construction was illegal. The police has now asked the community to remove the wall by Friday (today).

Mughalpura SP Dr Rizwan was not available for comment, but the station house officer (Manawan police station) said the police could not do anything to protect Ahmadis from clerics. “Only the media can protect the rights of that community,” he said. ali waqar

Re: # 103

Are you saying that Jinnah never made the case in United India that minorities needed to have a difinite share in power to guard their interest against the permanent majority of Hindus?

#98 by Urstruly

“So at the end of the day the core of the argument turns out to be whether you are with God or against Him”

No Sir! We are not conceding God to you, He is not the partisan monster that you are making Him out to be.

#101 by Tehsinabbasi,

I don`t think you understood my question. Let me re-phrase it.

What do you think are the negative implications upon civil society, or against the interests of ``other stake holders`` (i.e. in your words the army, the feudal lord, the politician, the industrialist, the tribal chief) in the event of an Islamist victory, to prevent which there will be civil war?

Now can you be specific please?

Rgds

So who determines that Pakistan becomes or has become ``Islamic state based on Islamic principles`` and is staying that way?

Re: # 100

This is prepostrous and shameless obfuscation. The ideas presented in this paragraph are shameless re-writing of the history post-fact. If accepted the whole idea of Two Nations Theory falls flat on its face. The TNT demanded Two nations living under one polity under a constitutional parity as opposed to Congresse`s stance that there existed no minority or majority in India; everyone was one nation. Please keep in mind that Quaid-e-Azam always used the option of separate homeland as second option till very late until Cabinet Mission was formed in late 1946 or early 1947. Until then Quadi-e-Azam always propounded the idea of separate-but-equal under one constitution. The idea of United India with a constitutional parity between Hindus and Muslims failed because of the stubborness of Gandhi and Nehru who were of the opinion that even if QA succeeded in creating the state of Pakistan, the state would not last more than 6 months and Muslims would come back crawling on all fours begging to reunite with Union. The rest is history. The Objectives Resolution is the culmination of the ideals that Muslim Leadership long held before partition. And mind you, this was the core argument of Congress against ML that in a Muslim state minorities will exist (and discriminated).

#93 by Mantolives on April 20, 2007 2:56am PT


Pakistan can be an Islamic state based on Islamic principles ... but it cannot discriminate between its citizens on the basis of any religious beliefs...


It is AND it does..case in point...your ahmedi dad not being able to call himself muslim...a non-muslim having a zero chance of being a CJ(``acting`` CJ doesn`t count), a non-sunni not being able to be the head of the army, PM or president....