Talibanization of Pakistan

Re: # 48

Zee Sahib,

welcome back. Aapnay farmiya:

{What you`re seeing now is a revival of `back to the basics` and take it on from there, so the unresolved issues will be resolved in due course}

How many times in the past 1500 (fifteen hundred) years have we heard that comment before? Zia used it, Obl uses it, our Mma uses it, Syed Qutb Used it. Even the Xtian right wing uses it everytime they see a catastrophe and whip their flock into a frenzy against the evil forces of this world, promising a return to the ways of Jesus.

What makes this time different to all the other fake or undelivered promises?

rf76

You have to agree with Zee that Muhammad`s Islam (as Zee and teshah describe it) was short-lived. Islam never really get a fair chance afterwards.

That fair chance exists today in Pakistan. In a country decidedly made for Muslims. In today`s world of telecommunications. Using the most advanced education available to anyone.

Re: # 50

Islam is not only Mohammad as described and preached by the prophet. According to Muslim faith and nearly all other faiths, God (Allah) created the universe, therefore by default all prophets Adam, Abraham, Jesus are all Muslims ie followers of Islam. From a relgious perspective, who is to decide when Islam started or finished or short-wired that is a subjective discussion and is influenced by events and history of that period.

As for the current global village concept (thanks to the west) Pakistan is still 50-100 years behind in terms of achieving that state of achievement. And Jinnah wud strongly disagree with your views regarding creation of Pakistan for muslims only.

Re: # 50

Islam is not only Mohammad as described and preached by the prophet. According to Muslim faith and nearly all other faiths, God (Allah) created the universe, therefore by default all prophets Adam, Abraham, Jesus are all Muslims ie followers of Islam. From a relgious perspective, who is to decide when Islam started or finished or short-wired that is a subjective discussion and is influenced by events and history of that period.

As for the current global village concept (thanks to the west) Pakistan is still 50-100 years behind in terms of achieving that state of achievement. And Jinnah wud strongly disagree with your views regarding creation of Pakistan for muslims only.

rt786

From a religious perspective, everybody is, has been a Muslim?

P.s.: (even Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Sahib)? Even the boy who shot all these virginia tech students?


rt786 bhai, do you follow a religion or some sort of black magic?

#49 by rf786

Zia used it, Obl uses it, our Mma uses it, Syed Qutb Used it ... What makes this time different ...

Let`s take these one by one:

Zia: He kept power for 11 years using the epitaph of Nizam-e-Mustafa, but didn`t even know what it meant otherwise he wouldn`t have hanged ZAB on a false charge (now publicly admitted by one of the consenting judges and later the CJ of Supreme Court Nasim Hasan Shah), mass floggings of political workers and journalists, and public hangings just to instill fear amongst his own people. Nizam-e-Mustafa, above all, means justice.

OBL: He rightly uses the concept, though he has never even mentioned Muhammad as far as I remember. I think both Usama and Mullah Umar have modelled themselves after the Caluph Umar Khattab who represented just one facet of Muhammad`s persona.

Mma: Please see my comment below about `sarkarai` Mullahs. They will go wherever their political expediency takes them, such as the recent conference of the `Federation of Madrassas` (dunno what that is .. ) sponsored by Maulana Fazlur-Rahman condemning the actions of Lal Masjid/Jamia Hafsa as being `unislamic`. What else can they do when the latter have snatched the limelight from their half a decade of efforts to championing Islam?

Syed Qutb: Usama and Mullah Umar follow the Syed Qutb model for revival so my comment remains the same in this respect as given for Usama.

As for what makes this time different? I think the answer should be obvious in the results.

Rgds

....#54 correction ..

...half a decade of efforts to championing Islam should read ...half a century of efforts to championing Islam.

Re : rafi_aamer # 32

“There is a lot of blame to go all around for the situation. A major part of the problem are the elements within the so-called ``sensitive`` agencies in Pakistan. They were given the task to handle Mujahideen during Soviet occupation of Afghanistan but instead of just handling, they got married to the Jihadi ideology and now are a major scare for anyone who wants to fix things.”

Rafi,
I feel that the agencies have done a good job of managing the jihadi elements. I suspect the Jamia Hafsa incident was instigated by them to divert attention from the chief justice and those pesky lawyers. The army likes to present itself as the lesser evil.

Regards,

Faruk

Re: # 43
Zeena,

You keep criticizing things that I didn`t write in my article. Nowhere did I say that the main reason for corruption in Pakistan were Mullahs. I was trying to have a discussion but you seem to be having a munazra. Unfortunately, I don`t like to have munazras. So, I hope you will forgive me for ignoring your posts from this point on.

Let`s just say, going by the number of LOL`s in your posts, that I am glad my article provided you some comic relief so it wasn`t a totally worthless effort. I hope to provide you some more in future.

Regards,

Rafi Aamer

Re: # 48
Zeemax,

I wanted to ask the question before but couldn`t get time. Khurram and you have referred to something as working out the unresolved issues. I would like to know what is it that you are referring to.

Thanks,

Rafi

Re: # 56

Faruk,

I am not sure how did the agencies manage the jihadi elements. By putting them out of business or asking them to lie low for the time being? Only time will tell.

Rafi

rafi_ammer sahib, do you have any information about Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh? Has he been hanged yet, or how that case might be progressing?

#58 by rafi_aamer,

I`m glad you noticed that.

Unresolved issues are the progress of `Islamic Democracy` onwards following Muhammad`s death and the revolt of Ansaar against the Muhajareen, pacified by the Companions (Abu Bakr/Umar/Abu Ubaidah) as a priority (instead of crushing them or turning against them) before even burying Muhammad who was left unburied, to attend to the crisis because it was more important than burying Muhammad, for the unity of Muslims; and the bowing to people`s will which prevailed throughout the first four`s reign which resulted in three out of the four being assassinated by common men while without a single personal guard around to prevent the people`s verdict upon them being carried out.

Has anyone seen a bigger `democracy` than that?

If you first absorb the above, we may continue.

Rgds.

#60 by kaalchakra,

Lemme butt in to answer this question.

Omar Saeed Sheikh was convicted of murdering Daniel Pearl and sentenced to death in Hyderabad jail which was still to be carried out. In the meantime, the americans got Khalid Sheikh Muhammad to confess (amongst the 45 or so confessions) that he had personally beheaded Daniel Pearl.

At that, Omar Saeed Sheikh`s defence has lodged an appeal that since another man has confessed to the crime, Omar Saeed is wrongly accused and convicted and must be exonerated and acquitted.

They`ll win. There can be no further argument.

The blunders go on and the Jihad moves on ... and with a Lincoln`s Inn graduate back in the force!

So there :)

Re: # 60

Omar Sheikh hasn`t been hanged yet. His case is on appeal. After Khalid Sheikh Muhammad`s alleged confession (alleged because KSM hasn`t been tried yet for his crimes and may never go thru an open court trial), the case has taken a new dimension because, earlier, the government of Pakistan had named Omar Sheikh for killing Daniel Pearle. The last I heard, Omar`s lawyer was preparing to file a new appeal based on reports from Pentagon about KSM`s confession.

Re: # 61

I will try my best to absorb what you wrote though I can`t promise a success in that :)

Thanks.

Rafi