In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the Earth

Come to think of it ... this guy is really the average Chowk Shamimists` DREAM!

#361 by zeemax,

In fact there was still another one named Yusuf Kazzab (liar) something. I saw him in court in I think year 2000 in Lahore. He too had a sizable group supporting him with lots of security and stuff. So there`s no end to these guys. Heard he died in jail a few years ago. :)

The Muslims living in England can be of great help in finding this report from British India Library. The same library lends books and records over the internet, a paid service, but their cataloguing is horrible and most of the material is not scanned yet. I was researching for an article on the the masacre of Muslims during partition and I found it better, and cheaper, to go to England rather find material over the internet.

Re: # 360

Echo - Thanks for the links. God bless you. It would be great service to Muslim cause if an authentic copy of ``Report of Parliamentary Commission `The Arrival of British Empire in India` `` could be found. We can then drive the final nail in the coffin of this nuisance.

Zeena,

Khuram is right there have been many claimants to being Mehdi, Issa etc. Following is one more (a recent one) and the picture is proof his face appears on the moon. Not only that, it appears on the Hajr-e-Aswad as well and his organisation lays claim to the stone (though not on the moon I guess).



Only reason why Mr. Gohar Shahi couldn`t rake up as much following as Mirza was because British rule had unfortunately ended by the 1980s and no one to give them jobs.

Enjoy! www.goharshahi.com

Zeena:

thanks for asking.

Here , I think this would be sufficient for now. Notice that it is some of the stature of Maulana Abul Hasan Nadvi .

Very informative indeed.!
The second one is just a chronological list.
Qadianism - A Critical Study by Maulana Abul Hasan Ali Nadvi

Mirza Ghulam Qadiani - his life at a glance

Ok I try to tell what I know. Neither Sattar knows anything of his religion and nor mind of zeena is free of confusions.

Ahmediyat (or Qadiyaniat or Mirzaiat) is not any new religion. There is mention in Islamic scriptures that an Imam Mehdi shall come in Muslims. It is also mentioned in Islamic scriptures that Hazrat Issa shall again appear among Muslims.

Throughout Islamic history, many individuals have claimed to be that ``Imam Mehdi``. For example a ``popular`` Imam Mehdi emerged in Muslim India in the 14th century AD. He launched a ``fundamentalist`` type movement which is known as ``Mehdawi Movement``. This movement had started in the period of Lodhy Rulers and finally ended in the hands of Islam Shah Suri i.e. son of Sher Shah Suri.

Similarly Mirza Ghulam Ahmed also came up with the claim of being ``Imam Mehdi``. His claim is complicated because he has the claim of being ``Imam Mehdi`` and ``Issa`` who was to appear in Muslams, as well.

In order to legitimize his claim of being both ``Imam Mehdi`` and ``Issa`` at the same time, Mirza Sahib has interpreted Islamic scriptures in a certain way. For example he has interpreted Quranic description about Hazrat Issa in such way as to show that Hazrat Issa died a normal death and the ``Issa`` to be appeared among Muslims has only symbolic meanings.

And since Mirza Sahib has the claim of being ``Issa`` as well,, so he also faced the problem of popular Muslim belief of ``Khatam-e-Nabuwat``. In this connection, Mirza Sahib has interpreted ``Khatam-e-Nabuwat`` in such such way which is different from its popular meanings. But honestly speaking, that interpretation is not whole unique because some other prominent Muslim scholars also have interpreted it in that way.

Anyways, as I said that many individuals have claimed to be ``Imam Mehdi`` in Muslim history and many of them made many followers as well. Mirza, by far is one such ``Imam Mehdi`` who has made greatest number of followers so far, and throughout the world.

Ahmedies actually consider themselves to be true Muslims because in their minds, they believe in the true Imam Mehdi as per the instructions of Islam.

So these are the facts about Ahmediyat. Sattar seems to be ignorant of these things so I cannot say that you ppl can conform these things from him.

Regards!

zeemax
Yes, you are right.......we can`t call it a new religion....then what is it?

Well, I guess I have to google through internet....which I hardly have time for...

#356 by Zeena,

Dear Zeena, I can`t make head or tail of it either so I`m not the best person to ask. Maybe sattar will tell you its essential teachings if there are any.

Actually calling it a `new religion` is giving a bad name to things like scientology and stuff.

Regards

zeemax sahib

Canm you explain the concept of Mirzaii religion? I am still not clear about the whole concept of this new religion.....

sattar sahib aka aishaM sahiba

You think that all of us Muslim Pakistanis are wrong and Non Muslim mirzaiis are right.......

Well, this shows where you coming from....extremely prejudiced and narrowminded......just think about it....

echoboom sahib

Why Mirza kept on insisting that Quran is wrong and only he is right? Why Mirza wished to change the whole concept of Quran? I don`t get it. explain.

[[[#327 by sattar2 on May 2, 2007 8:37am PT

zeena (#320),

I have a nick? Are you feeling alright? Perhaps 5-time-daily head-banging is taking its toll on you. ]]

aishaM sahiba aka sattar2 sahib

I thought you are only confused and clueless, but, after reading this post I am feeling sorry on your state of mind.......

Who banged the head? ofcourse you when you do not believe in Islam and God(Almighty)..When you start promoting your own religion here and try to convince us that we are wrong , our faith is wrong, our belief in one God(Almighty) is wrong, Jesus Christ (PBUH) was wrong.......

Yes, you and your non Muslim religion is only right.......What a rationality......LOL

# 348 sattar

But all Muslims are not unanimous on these beliefs. What you are telling,, mostly are the beliefs of uneducated or less educated Muslims. There are enlightened segments in Muslims who take these things in allegorical sense.

Many Muslims even do not believe that Issa is still alive in heavens. I think Sir Syed Ahmed Khan is a prominent example. And I do not think that Mr. Muhammad Gill (author) also believe in it. You can confirm from him.

Whereas many writings of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Sahib are simply the appeal to superstitional fears of common people. Whether or not he was right in the case of Muhammadi Beghum,,, but he did harrass her and her family by his terrible ``predictions`` about her and her family. Ahmadiya Jamaat often projects many rigth predictions of Mirza Sahib. Do you not think that belief is such minor predictions are also superstitional in nature...???

Many of the Muslims had joined Ahmedia Jamaat at the time when plague broke out in Punjab and Mirza Sahib manipulated the fears of common people by his predictions that who will die of plague and who will not. Was not it appeal to superstitional beliefs of common people...???

Looking forward for explanations.

Regards!

hamidm (#351),

I could speculate, and it will surely enrage ullema …

Allah’s prophets and believers have always faced extreme opposition from disbelievers. Quran attests to this in several places. So it’s nothing new ... same same :-)

Conversely, perhaps it is because Ahmadis have challenged ullema on their own turf, over bread and butter issues. They have refused to negotiate with ullema and matched them verse for verse, hadith for hadith, reason for reason. In short, ullema risk losing their grip on politics and their halwa is on the line. Hence their resentment against Ahmadi-Muslims …

Heck, I think I’ll remain an Ahmadi just to annoy the mullah …

BTW, do download echo’s audio clips (#330) if you get to it. It was a riot listening to a fuming punjabi cussing and berating the caller …

Re: # 350

sattar,

.... i wonder why these folks get so worked up if you call yourself a muslim ? ....... i consider myself a muslim and i have some serious doubts about al-lah, his daughters, and his prophet (pbuh and his camel) ....... but they don`t seem to be all that upset with me .... what is it about you ahmedi muslims that riles them so and gets them to foam at the mouth ?

echo,

In other words, Urstruly does not think your source is credible enough, and is therefore stepping away from it - just a hunch. Basically he is telling you to get a life and to stop posting from some lame web-site. It makes the ummah look bad!

... I agree …

+++

Urstruly, c’mon be a pal. Don’t get so worked up if I consider myself a Muslim. You need to move on. Or your Issa could descend from clouds and decide this matter. But what is he waiting for …??

I have my faith in Islam, and you have yours. I fail to see your problem.

[... btw, no one called anyone “children of prostitutes”. As usual, your translation is incorrect and self-serving. But hey, if the shoe fits :-) ]