In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the Earth

Re:#46 GT,

how was this process arrived at?

Re: # 47

khurram:

No idea, boss.

Unless, scientists have verifiable quantative data to backup their claim that there exists no God, shouldn`t they keep their mouths shut. Isn`t it the scientific rational method? But fact of the matter is that it is not science that denies the existence of God but it is the athesits who use the crutches of science to rationalize their own religion and dogma. That is quite pathetic because while they have not a shred of evidence to prove their religion to be true the evidence to prove that God exists lies in every subatomic particle to the vast exapanse of universe. Their existence is the proof that God exists. Perhaps the most pathetic and irrational absurdity is the claim that the universe came into existence by itself.

Macdonald Corp. claims that over 16 billion of their burgers have been eaten by human beings but there has not been a single reporting of a burger eating a human being. If the whole universe can come into existence by itself then sometimes a burger should eat a man too for a change. And if Darwin`s theory is true then shouldn`t burger evolve defense mechanism by now to prevent being eaten up? If atomic dust can turn into humanity and living beings by itsef then why this rule doen`t apply to burgers. By the way food poisoning is not a defence mechanism of burgers, ok?

To help move the discussion further along, here are some quotes. First few from Philosophers about Scientists, then the other way around:

Part 1.

“The true function of philosophy is to educate us in the principles of reasoning and not to put an end to further reasoning by the introduction of fixed conclusions.” (Gorge Lewes)

“Science is what you know. Philosophy is what you don`t know.” (Bertrand Russell)

“It requires a very unusual mind to undertake the analysis of the obvious.” (Alfred Whitehead).


Part 2.

“I would not think that philosophy and reason themselves will be man`s guide in the foreseeable future; however, they will remain the most beautiful sanctuary they have always been for the select few.” (Einstein)

“Science is practical Philosophy” (René Descartes)

“Science is a series of judgments, revised without ceasing.” Pierre Emile Duclaux


and my favorite one:

“The man of science is a poor philosopher”. (Einstein)

#26 by ranjit

Virtue is only important if you want a good life. The best life you can have – get the most out of the brief existence you have on this planet. This goes back to basically the question – why the heck am I here? You can define it differently as our rationality would allow it, you can live a life on a different basis then being virtuous. But it would be unnatural, because every species no matter what, wishes to propagate itself and it does so by doing the best it can for itself. It is an effort towards betterment. So, virtue is driving towards the ideal, the ultimate good.

Interwoven with this is the concept of Love. Which my guru (Plato) defines as the path that connects the temporal with the eternal. Right from when a young man like yourself carves out his name with his beloved’s on a tree trunk “Ranjit and Aishwarya” for ever, it is the expression - the longing for eternity. He is looking for permanence.

In this quest we are always trying to seek the highest level of relative truth that we can achieve. Truth being the top, numero uno of all virtues. Hitler, my friend! Violated this principle and paid the price for it. He lied and lied continuously to the point of delusion and self delusion. The trouble with myth and myth based societies is that although within the myth there are grains of truth which tend to help a society but are no match to a systematic methodical system based upon verifiable truths, of concepts and predictable results, which order the truth to a much higher level and the results are obvious. The societies become much more virtuous then those still wrestling with their mythical demons.

Re: # 49

urstruly;

let me turn this around : Unless, theologians have verifiable data (of any kind) to backup their claim that God exists, shouldn`t they keep their mouths shut``

I just cant believe that some people in this day and age believe in this Adam and Eve Nonsense. I am glad that you are coming out of the closet in that respect.

It also exposes the notion that the basis of people who believe in this logic have lied upon for the last 3000 yrs or so.

Eastern Religion`s philosphy, though not perfect at least accepts that the Nature is God.

Those who say that they know when was World created; consider them foolish.

-Guru Nanak

Re: # 50
[and my favorite one:

“The man of science is a poor philosopher”. (Einstein)]

Kulharee,

You are misquoting here. To the best of my recollection, the quote is taken from an article by Einstein titled “Physics and Reality”. He didn’t claim that the man of science was a poor philosopher. He was actually examining the claim and the entire sentence went something like “it is usually said that the man of science is a poor philosopher”. I think in the same passage, Einstein actually maintained that the physicists cannot surrender to the philosopher the foundations of a new theory because the physicist is the one, not the philosopher, who fully knows the problems of the existing theory.

I can get you the exact quote later.

Rafi

Re: # 49
[Macdonald Corp. claims that over 16 billion of their burgers have been eaten by human beings but there has not been a single reporting of a burger eating a human being. If the whole universe can come into existence by itself then sometimes a burger should eat a man too for a change. And if Darwin`s theory is true then shouldn`t burger evolve defense mechanism by now to prevent being eaten up?]

Urstruly,

You are demonstrating very poor understanding of Darwin’s theory. Atomic dust turning into anything living has nothing to do with Darwin. A very friendly suggestion: read Darwin and then you can mount an informed campaign against his theory.

Take care,

Rafi

Re: # 54

Thanks Rafi for clarifying, I just like the quote irregardless of his position on Physics or Philosophy.. he also said, he wished he was a Plumber..

Re: # 52 by hamidm2:

Hamid:

``Unless, theologians have verifiable data.....``

I am sorry to say this but Urstruly has provided enough verifiable data. I add one more:

``hamidm2 exists and therefore God exists.``

Yes, you have my permission to use this on Mrs. hamidm2.

Re: # 57
``hamidm2 exists and therefore God exists.``

And God exists therefore a super-God exists and super-God exists therefore a super-duper God exists .... and so on and so forth.

Re: # 58 by rafi_aamer

Rafi sahib,

Please do not get excited. Believe me, Hamid will thank me for the line. The Mrs. and his liver has restrained him from many of God`s good creations.

Regards.

Re: # 55

Au contraire, I subscribe to the theory of evolution and so does millions of Muslims. The theory is taught in every Muslim country in every school, college, and university and no where it is an issue as much as it is in the Bible belt of USA. The epitome of conservatism in Pakistan, Dr. Israr Ahmad (a medical Dr. by profession) subscribes to it and delivers lecture.

The issue is not with the theory of evolution; the issue is with the atheists who use it to `prove`` that first the universe came into existence by itself and then it started evolving by itself. So my question was, why don`t burgers evolve into growing teeth by themselves and start eating people.

Re: # 59

GT,

.......... actually mrs hamidm is convinced that i am living proof of satan`s existence ........ i like satan and if i was a religious man i would worship Him .........

Re: # 58

dear rafi....someone sent me a quotation today that i thought you might like

`acceptance without proof is the fundamental characteristic of religion, rejection without

proof is the fundamental characteristic of science` gary zukav

affectionately sohail