Burqa Vaganza – A Satirical Backlash

Urstruly#256:

You are right that life for us all, particularly Muslims, changed after 9/11 and Bush`s bull-headed response to it and it has deeply affected multiculturalism in western societies. I would only add that as far as the radicalisation of Muslims, especially the youth, is concerned, 9/11 was not the only reason. It started earlier with the infusion of petrodollars by the Saudis, who provided generous funds for the construction of mosques but insisted on appointing the imams that agreed with their own brand of harsh, uncompromising Islam. I remember a time when we had no masjid in Ottawa and desi muslims will meet in common places where someone from the community would lead the prayer. In the UK, Pakistani Muslims were served by maulvis imported from India and Pakistan who preached islam to which people were used to. But with the coming in of these new Imams, parents were not able to pass on their own version of the soft, sufi-infused islam which was replaced by the more puritan brand espoused by the Saudis.

Multiculturalism in Canada was succeeding and expanding but here too there has been a setback. It is partly because we immigrants have brought our old baggages - Kashmir, Srilankan Eelam, Khalistan, Palestine, etc. with us and turned Canada into a battleground for our old battles. This is naturally resented by the natives. Islam is getting a bad name here also because of the activities of some extremists who have issued death threats and attacked Muslims who do not agree with them. The backlash is particularly harsh in Quebec, which is behaving more like France in this respect.

kaalchakra #304 Please dont sit on the sidelines. We need thinking people like you on chowk!! We have enough of the other kind. What do you think of my post #299, for example?

teshah #301 I am of the same (per your view of the world) ``caste`` as mukhtaran mail, i.e. a gujjar. Unlike you, I am not a dangar. And unlike you, I was raised in the finest muslim tradition, and taught not to look up to any individual and not to look down on any individual on account of his or her socio-economic status.

Individuals like you need a good thrashing, and are not fit to walk on the same ground as mukhtaran mai.

Raw, Khurran, Rahul, tahmed32 ji

Interesting discussion.

Hope you don`t reach the unsettling conclusion that the state (particularly democratic state) is nothing but the will of the majority clearly prevailing over that of the minority......or worse, that unless such injustice is clearly embraced as the only meaningful and real form of justice, there can be no state and no democracy...

Will follow your arguments, from the sides lines.

HisExcellency/Dost-Mittar: ``There is a fundamental difference of opinion between EU and Turkish army. Europeans want Turkey to establish a democracy first......France that don`t want a large Muslim population in EU.``

...There are a couple of things one needs to take into account, when analyzing the behavior of Generals in any country.....Specifically in countries with large militaries........

.....People tend to analyze the behavior of Generals using the same techniques as they use to analyze the behavior of civilians......This is where they make their error.......Military training, in any country, requires a significant amount of brainwashing..........It is very difficiult to get people to risk their lives, without first being brainwashed.......Having gone through this brainwashing, I can speak from experience.......

........In the USA cadets are taken at the age of 17 or so..........In Pakistan, at the age of 15.......From that point onwards, they are disconnected from society........They are broken down pschologically and then rebuilt again.........There life, religion, environment etc. is all military........If you dig deep enough, you will notice that all military men generally have a low opinion of the civilians.......Some, as in Pakistan, display it through coups, others, as in USA do it through living room conversations........

........Hence when a General makes a decision, he does so, based on the training he received as a teenager.........Being cut-off from civil society his whole life, and having a low opinion of civilians to begin with, he is always over-confident of his decision making abilities and patriotism.......I am quite sure Musharraf genuninely wants to do well for Pakistan and actually believes he knows best.........When in fact, his vision and exposure are quite limited.......

Someone informed me that in Turkey cadets are taken at the age of 12!.......If that is the case, then they must be totally brainwashed.........Their brainwashing seems to be on the line of secularism and westernization...........We had some Turkish officers in Pakistan on exchange postings.........I always found their behavior to be quite hilarious.......They couldn`t speak English well, yet wanted to behave totally like Americans.......As if they had just stepped out of the USA.........And they were about as far away from religion, as one can imagine.......

So, I don`t think the decisions of the Turkish generals (much like the decisions of their Pakistani counterparts) are based on a deep political analysis of EU etc., or a deep philosophical analysis of secularism etc...........They are based on what they were taught as young kids and the environment in which they have grown up.........

dost-mittar #: `` I have recently become a member of Ottawa`s South Indian Cultural Association.``

I am touring South India, at the moment........Interesting place.........

Re: # 227

GT

Mastoies did provide a platform to Mai Mukhtaran in the shape of the village punchayat (A veritable democratic People`s Court) at Meerwala which proved to be a spring board for her to make her a `hero` and darling of the West. What more do you want for a low-caste illiterate woman?
I wonder what a media fraud can do in the West!

Urstruly Bhai,

Aapnay Rauf Kulasra ka jo article agar iss suboot kayy torr parr paysh kiya thaa kay Rauf Sahab kaa yeah istadlal kay koi aurat agar apna moonh kala kartii hayy too uskay bhai, baap, shauhar yeah santa clause ko automatically koi haq muhaya hojata hayy kayy wohh uskayy ``Totay totayy `` karday, or isska talluq kissii torr Islam yeah tehzeeb kayy kiisii zawiyayy sayy bhii hayy too barayeyy meharbani zara wazahatt farmadijyayy.

You are one of the few people that speak as a spokesperson for Islam and when you post an article which in essence opposes murder of women for their lewd behavior and you some how ``fly a joke`` about that then it creates enormous confusion not only about your own views but it solidifies the rhetoric that Islam some how justifies this abhoric behavior of murder of women by their relatives, I could care less about your personal views but i have a major problem if you are saying that Islam as a religion agress with this vigilantiism or any vigilantiism for that matter.

#298 On the question of using force to promote the underlying principles of a state: The question is - what is ultimately in the best interests of mankind? Forget God, gods, and the Supreme National Interest.

The best interests of mankind is in steady scientific and economic progress. Scientific progress is what has taken mankind out of caves, away from eating berries. Instead of being chased and eaten by tigers, mankind has put tigers behind bars. All this is taken for granted. All this is the result of scientific and economic progress. Looking at how far we have come, look forward to how far we can go - eternal life is something serious biologists consider to be a question of time; control over the vast resources of the solar system is a question of a couple of centuries; and so forth.

These goals are best met through peace and scientific and economic progress - something only democratic societies, where rights of the individual are respected, provide. Any ideologies that stand in the way - fascism, communism, or at a more trivial level, the empty howling and attacks on innocent people by islamist-jahils - are mere hurdles to this path and are addressed as needed (through a major war as in case of nazism, or through simple police actions as is being done with islamist-jahils).

Hope this clarifies. :-)

Re: # 296
``Should they be defended by force if they no longer represent that consensus? ``
But any such consensus that is antithetical to the definition of a state can only be exerted by force (the state,by definition, would not provide a process to change its definition)so in turn it has to be defended by force

Re: # 294
Amazing, that’s bradfordistan

Churchill and enoch powell must be weeping in their graves, the whole city has surrendered to islam.

“we shall not flag or fail. We shall go on to the end, we shall fight in France, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our Island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender” Churchill

Raw_Dust,

No, I am sorry, I don`t get it. And, I don`t think you are getting what I am saying.

As I said in #263, where do these underlying principles come from? Why should a state be formed on certain principles and not others? Isn`t it because they represent the consensus of the population? Should they be defended by force if they no longer represent that consensus?

khurram:
Yes, to constitutional amendments.

NO to the principles on which the State and constitution is founded upon which in the case of Islamist Democracy is the source of sovereignty belongs to Allah and ultimate source of Law = Quran. That will NEVER be up for any kind of amendments. Get it?

#282 by echoboom on May 8, 2007 11:56am PT
``MiZzGaaN toa khole! Shehr ko Sailaab lay gayaa``....Meer Taqi Meer.
tr:
Open your eyes! the Entire City has been swept away!


CLICK.
Islam Youngest Muslim Reverts.

.........................................
Let Arjun learn somthing may be he will revert... revese psychology..he harps about Brits inspite ..of the fact i have first hand experience of living U.K

Re: # 285 by echoboom:

Boom,

That article is very refreshing ....at least for me. Now I have some empirical justification for my beliefs. Thanks once again. And you are absolutely right in admonishing people like me who theorize (or should I say fantasize) without having much idea about reality.

291
yaar your profile-picture made me write that post. It was supposed to be in good humour, if not humorous.