Re:#273 by ranjit`

Ranjit, its become very evident that Pakistan is going to collapse; the question is 2020 or earlier. The scenario that would emerge then is;

1) The states of Punjab, Sind, NW Province & Baluchistan once again form a loose confederation not different from the erstwhile Pakistan with more equitable distribution of power.

2) Punjab & Sind join India, NW Province joins Afghanistan & Baluchistan goes to Iran giving a cultural & linguistic linkup.

As to India not wanting a border with Afghanistan & Iran, traditionally India has been close friends of both countries and these ties would get cemented further.

The only area of concern is getting the populance of Punjab & Sind to understand the fundamentals of living in a Democratic setup as compared to an Islamic one and their obligations vis a vis their rights.

This solution is the most pragmatic one which provides lasting peace & economic prosperity for India.

Tehmed 32 # 200

Dear Tehmed Bhai

I think there is some miscumminacation because of my hurried post.

Let me say it in detail. MQM should not have carried out its rally on the day CJP was visiting Karachi. It could always do it on the next day. Doing it on the same day (and with bad intentions) was its big almost inexcusable mistake.

Agreed, I am hard on the Punjabis. There are good & bad Punjabis. Being a Punjabi myself, give me the privilege to excessively criticise this majority. It is the Majority group which should always be more self-critical & like all bigger goups, should compromise more for the other smaller groups.

regards

NHK

Re:haji#204
[..It is however really difficult to criticize U.S. due to its political/economic influence and hence the cheap solution is to criticize Pakistan (which is only the effect and not the cause)
Criticism to Pakistan is most-welcome but it should be kept in mind that the bigger problem lies with the non-democratic roots of the country which have been totally supported by U.S. the only superpower in the world.
I hope that Indian readers reeading this interact would agree to this analysis and would comment on it... ]

Ahmed sahib, let me take a crack at this. India`s foreign policy is based on its own rational self-interest. What constitutes that self-interest? First of all, India has a vested interest in keeping Pakistan united. That may sound counter intuitive given all the rhetoric of the past. However, India has no interest in having an active border with Afghanistan, Iran or Central Asia. It is far less stressful to manage a border with Pakistan, except perhaps in Kashmir LOC, but even that is under control now. So Pakistan is an excellent buffer against the muslim world that used to invade India all the time in the past. Secondly India has no interest in seeing a neighboring region of 150 million people to be in chaos and anarchy. If Pakistan`s fails as a state and it becomes like Afghanistan in terms of warlordism, it would be a nightmare of astronomical proportions for India due to the spillover effects.

Thirdly India`s singular focus has shifted to its economy since the nineties. Its just not interested in changing political borders any more. Its main focus is to get rich and ensure a better life for its citizens. Economic activity requires a low risk environment so that investment can pour in and people can prosper. That is exactly what is happening. From a political point of view, the main focus in India is to carry all its population forward in terms of benefiting from the economic boom. You will notice the big controversies in terms of extending reservations to backward caste people in IITs and top insitutes, where the government is literally doubling the seats to give backward caste people a chance to get into the game.

You are right that the urdu speaking elite in Pakistan in conjunction with the punjabi feudals have created an oligarchy that rules Pakistan with an iron fist with the full backing of the US. The original aim of this oligarchy was the conquest of India itself to recreate past muslim rule. The UP muslims had this slogan - ``Haas ke liya Pakistan, lar ke lenge Hindustan``. They used to boast about raising the Paki flag on the Red Fort in Delhi. Hence the maniacal urge to match India on every issue since 1947. However, India smartly put this to rest in 1971 by neatly severing Pakistan. The residual Pakistan didnt have the strength to take on India. Adoption of nukes by India sealed this matter completely, as Pakistan saw that it was impossible to harm India any more. Although Pakistan tried very hard via the Kashmir jihad and Kargil to militarily defeat India, it failed and has now given up on that option.

While India has deftly negated the Pak elites imperial ambitions, it has also made sure not to destroy Pakistan completely since it serves a critical role in its western border as I mentioned above. Now as far as the US is concerned, India has always kept relations with the US at a commercial level, rather than at a geo-strategic level. US has a lousy track record with third world countries with whom it sets up geo-strategic alliances. Typically it results in interference in internal matters stemming from arrogance and lack of sensitivity about the partner for e.g. in Iran in the fifties or Pakistan. India is clever enough to understand how the Americans operate and has deliberately chosen not to get into bed with them. Look at how India is willing to walk away from the civilian nuclear deal since the US wants to interfere in India`s defense sector. Therefore, India`s hands-off relationship with the US, doesnt provide it with the access and the leverage needed to change US policy towards Pakistan. Even today, India doesnt have the level of access to the CIA or NSA personnel, that Pakistan has on a routine basis.

Therefore, India`s policy to push change in Pakistan is coming via a very Indian route - people to people contact and a concerted peace process. Yes it is cliched and seems not to make bold progress. However, make no mistake. It is actually a grassroots effort to change the dynamics between the two countries - a bottom up process that is democratic in nature. India counts on the fundamental truth that at a people to people level there is little or no animosity between the two people. In fact, the ethnic ties among the people is very strong and it can be leveraged to push for change. By pushing the door further and further it is building a constituency that supports peace. The results are quite encouraging. The same Punjabis who were killing hindus in 1947, are welcoming them to worship at Katas Raj and even opening up old temples. The movement of people and a pickup in trade is slowly creating a constituency in Pakistan that ignores the hate mongers. India has even reached out to the mullahs - witness the visits of Maulana Fazlur Rahman to India several times where he was treated very well. We will see how it all plays out, but in my opinion, India is playing its cards very smartly.

#265 by Zeena on May 13, 2007 2:58pm PT


I just saw an acrobatic Pakistani monkey


Jeez...get away from the mirror already...

#269 ahmedmadani sahib
You stated that Altaf`s family got killed in the past by Army.......Well, does it mean Altaf bahi has to retaliate against Army and instead of retaliating against Mushy, the man got involved with innocent Pakistanis killings?????........

MQM and Mushy are responsible for all the killing sof these innocent Pakistanis......and I am surprised to see insensitivity of some interactors who are trying to disolve this tragedy with, ifs, buts, and lame excuses.......and they are trying to settle down their own scores..........

What if their own families are being brutalized ? Will they say the samething, NO .........

#269 ahmedmadani sahib
Well, I am just reading and hearing news by Pakistani media. And what Pakistani media is telling us, it is obvious that MQM is the main reason that all these innocent pakistanis were killed yesterday.

And trust me, I don`t wish to say any bad words about any Pakistani,unless proven otherwise........

Well,whoever is to be blamed for? we will come to know soon......

By charlie on un plugged...........

[[[Looking at those MQM bastards in Karachi, I think sending rangers in Karachi to control law and order might be the only solution...

The same protests taking place in Lahore resulted in festivity... And same thing in Karachi resulted in dozens of deaths... Only difference between Lahore and Karachi is MQM...]]]

Re: # 263
Zeena... Kindly do not say bad worlds about Altafbhai. He may have used strong hand tactics when he and his people were in dire danger of extermination by Rangers and army under ledership of Nusrullahkhan Babar. Just like Kashimiris are fighting to save themselves. You know very well his blood relatives were slaughtered by army and rangers. Many MQM members were shot to kill not to control but kill. When somebody is attacked Altaf is not Gandhi as muslim is not pacific man. He faught and only problem with retard is he won against BB and NS. He waited for time and moved at great time like a tiger and grabbed power in Sindh and shown BB the worth. Note he is philosopher King and thinks and comments on various things other than politics. He and general are of same race. As mr. Hayat said correctly its all about race. So he ask his people to protect and defend and defeat dismissed CJ who ran away from Karachi when he saw irate Awam shouting against him. His great tactical thinking has PPP total waiting in power hungry. Honestly Altaf can bring peace to subcontinent and general should request his return and hive last fetal blow to BB and NS corrouption. Altaf some people may have done little wrong but he was in war and war general can not have little nicities as he is saving his people.
When MQM people were disfrenchised and PPI was attacking poor Mohajirs he marshalled refugees and gave them strenth and thinking power to fight with bare , hands and knifes and little guns against state army. Just like Moses he delivered poor refugees to promised land of Karachi and urban sindh. One may not like him as he is dark skinned gave his people place to live and die ``Sindh Dharati`` which was denied to these brave people and delivered Karachi and Hyderbad and urban sindh to these hard working people who brought karachi as most modern place in all muslim world and most industrial city, efficient harbour and great wealth producing city working 24 hours for all races. If there were people of his stature amoung sindhis no sindhis or MQM people would have killing as happened as thousands of people were slaughtered in karachi and hyderbad. From time he is supreme leader of Karachi no sindhi is displaced from urban areas, they are allowed to live as brothers and sisters. He is only leader who has called bringing back Biharis. He controls Pakistan and govt he could have brought and no body can stop. But he is not bringing as he wants to win hearts of sindhis and then bring briothers back. That is leadership and not want feel sindhis he is overlord. Lot little leaders and big parties can learn from Altaf bhai. Honestly he is only Quaid is awam after jinnah. He rules karachi and urban sindh by winning hearts of people to whom he delivered respect. Bye everybody and stop writing when you do not know much.
good luck everybody

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People offer prayers for Saturday`s firing
victims during funerals held in Karachi.