What Next After Karachi’s Carnage?
Pervez Hoodbhoy May 16, 2007
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#906 Posted by PM on May 25, 2007 10:55:42 pm
re. abu_safwaan #901:
``...Ayan Hirsi Ali, Wafa Sultan, Salamn rushdie, all these opportunists couldnt get immigration on their talents alone, they actually had to sell their sole to the devil and they gleefully obliged. Anyone who thinks that any of the above characters have a shred of originality or credibility needs to get there head out of the sand.``
Not sure about Ayan Hirsi Ali or Wafa Sultan, but if your think that Rushdie NEEDED to write the Satanic Verses to buy himself some notches up the totem pole of respectability in literary circles-- by virtue of it`s supposed anti-Islam undertones, no less-- well, thanks for that little insight into where you`re coming from.
``...Ayan Hirsi Ali, Wafa Sultan, Salamn rushdie, all these opportunists couldnt get immigration on their talents alone, they actually had to sell their sole to the devil and they gleefully obliged. Anyone who thinks that any of the above characters have a shred of originality or credibility needs to get there head out of the sand.``
Not sure about Ayan Hirsi Ali or Wafa Sultan, but if your think that Rushdie NEEDED to write the Satanic Verses to buy himself some notches up the totem pole of respectability in literary circles-- by virtue of it`s supposed anti-Islam undertones, no less-- well, thanks for that little insight into where you`re coming from.
#908 Posted by abu_safwaan on May 25, 2007 11:03:50 pm
Re: # 906
And considering salman Rushdie as a modern day tolosty or shakespere just because his writings have according to you ``supposed`` anti islamic undertones--well, thanks for that little insight into where you`re coming from.
And considering salman Rushdie as a modern day tolosty or shakespere just because his writings have according to you ``supposed`` anti islamic undertones--well, thanks for that little insight into where you`re coming from.
#904 Posted by ZahraJ on May 25, 2007 10:49:39 pm
#901 - A trashy and repugnant fellow like you need not comment on my posts. Go to hell and die of shame there. People like you deserve to be slapped with Surah Lahab. Get lost!!!
#905 Posted by abu_safwaan on May 25, 2007 10:52:41 pm
Re: # 904
hahahahahahahahaha..OK..will do.. do grow a brain however whenever u get a moment from telling us all how athletic your 180lbs 5`2 structure is.
hahahahahahahahaha..OK..will do.. do grow a brain however whenever u get a moment from telling us all how athletic your 180lbs 5`2 structure is.
#903 Posted by PM on May 25, 2007 10:49:06 pm
re. tahmed #884
``anyway, i am just an old man rambling on... ``
Hardly!
sattar #various
Hi. I read your reply addressing my questions but, well, it was a Friday night, if you know what I mean. From what I remember thinking, :-), there are some minor questions I have to follow up, but that`ll havta wait till after the weekend.
Without wishing to comment on the religious persuasions or beliefs of your detractors here, I`d like to add that I do find their reaction to your posts strange (or maybe telling) and sometimes plain ridiculuos (-- not to mention disgusting every now and again!). How anyone can accuse you of unsulting Prophet Muhammed is, IMHO, beyond reason, but, in my experience, a good indicator all the same of the level of viscerality attached to the defense of certain `keystone` beliefs.
``anyway, i am just an old man rambling on... ``
Hardly!
sattar #various
Hi. I read your reply addressing my questions but, well, it was a Friday night, if you know what I mean. From what I remember thinking, :-), there are some minor questions I have to follow up, but that`ll havta wait till after the weekend.
Without wishing to comment on the religious persuasions or beliefs of your detractors here, I`d like to add that I do find their reaction to your posts strange (or maybe telling) and sometimes plain ridiculuos (-- not to mention disgusting every now and again!). How anyone can accuse you of unsulting Prophet Muhammed is, IMHO, beyond reason, but, in my experience, a good indicator all the same of the level of viscerality attached to the defense of certain `keystone` beliefs.
#902 Posted by PM on May 25, 2007 10:47:57 pm
re. tahmed #884
``anyway, i am just an old man rambling on... ``
Hardly!
sattar #various
Hi. I read your reply addressing my questions but, well, it was a Friday night, if you know what I mean. From what I remember thinking, :-), there are some minor questions I have to follow up, but that`ll havta wait till after the weekend.
Without wishing to comment on the religious persuasions or beliefs of your detractors here, I`d like to add that I do find their reaction to your posts strange (or maybe telling) and sometimes plain ridiculuos (-- not to mention disgusting every now and again!). How anyone can accuse you of unsulting Prophet Muhammed is, IMHO, beyond reason, but, in my experience, a good indicator all the same of the level of viscerality attached to the defense of certain `keystone` beliefs.
``anyway, i am just an old man rambling on... ``
Hardly!
sattar #various
Hi. I read your reply addressing my questions but, well, it was a Friday night, if you know what I mean. From what I remember thinking, :-), there are some minor questions I have to follow up, but that`ll havta wait till after the weekend.
Without wishing to comment on the religious persuasions or beliefs of your detractors here, I`d like to add that I do find their reaction to your posts strange (or maybe telling) and sometimes plain ridiculuos (-- not to mention disgusting every now and again!). How anyone can accuse you of unsulting Prophet Muhammed is, IMHO, beyond reason, but, in my experience, a good indicator all the same of the level of viscerality attached to the defense of certain `keystone` beliefs.
#900 Posted by ZahraJ on May 25, 2007 9:31:55 pm
Very interesting perspective on the missing introspection among the Muslims. I am sure brother Masadi will be amused to read the following.
How to End `Islamophobia`
By TAWFIK HAMID
May 25, 2007; Page A15
WSJ Online
Islamic organizations regularly accuse non-Muslims of ``Islamophobia,`` a fear and disdain for everything Islamic. On May 17, this accusation bubbled up again as foreign ministers from the Organization of the Islamic Conference called Islamophobia ``the worst form of terrorism.`` These ministers also warned, according to the Arab News, that this form of discrimination would cause millions of Muslims in Western countries, ``many of whom were already underprivileged,`` to be ``further alienated.``
In America, perhaps the most conspicuous organization to persistently accuse opponents of Islamophobia is the Council of American Islamic Relations. CAIR has taken up the legal case of the ``Flying Imams,`` the six individuals who were pulled from a US Airways flight in Minneapolis this past November after engaging in suspicious behavior before takeoff. Not long ago, CAIR filed a ``John Doe`` lawsuit that would have made passengers liable for ``malicious`` complaints about suspicious Muslim passengers.
In an interview at the time, CAIR spokesman Nihad Awad accused Rep. Peter King (R., N.Y.) of being an ``extremist`` who ``encourages Islamophobia`` for pointing out what most people would think is obvious, that such a lawsuit would have a chilling effect on passengers who witnessed alarming activity and wished to report it. We can only assume that Mr. Awad believes flyers should passively remain in a state of fear as they travel and submissively risk their lives. In this case, Congress is acting appropriately and considering passing a law sponsored by Mr. King that would grant passengers immunity from such lawsuits.
It may seem bizarre, but Islamic reformers are not immune to the charge of ``Islamophobia`` either. For 20 years, I have preached a reformed interpretation of Islam that teaches peace and respects human rights. I have consistently spoken out -- with dozens of other Muslim and Arab reformers -- against the mistreatment of women, gays and religious minorities in the Islamic world. We have pointed out the violent teachings of Salafism and the imperative of Westerners to protect themselves against it.
Yet according to CAIR`s Michigan spokeswoman, Zeinab Chami, I am ``the latest weapon in the Islamophobe arsenal.`` If standing against the violent edicts of Shariah law is ``Islamophobic,`` then I will treat her accusation as a badge of honor.
Muslims must ask what prompts this ``phobia`` in the first place. When we in the West examine the worldwide atrocities perpetrated daily in the name of Islam, it is vital to question if we -- Muslims -- should lay the blame on others for Islamophobia or if we should first look hard at ourselves.
According to a recent Pew Global Attitudes survey, ``younger Muslims in the U.S. are much more likely than older Muslim Americans to say that suicide bombing in the defense of Islam can be at least sometimes justified.`` About one out of every four American Muslims under 30 think suicide bombing in defense of Islam is justified in at least some circumstances. Twenty-eight percent believe that Muslims did not carry out the 9/11 attacks and 32% declined to answer that question.
While the survey has been represented in the media as proof of moderation among American Muslims, the actual results should yield the opposite conclusion. If, as the Pew study estimates, there are 2.35 million Muslims in America, that means there are a substantial number of people in the U.S. who think suicide bombing is sometimes justified. Similarly, if 5% of American Muslims support al Qaeda, that`s more than 100,000 people.
To bring an end to Islamophobia, we must employ a holistic approach that treats the core of the disease. It will not suffice to merely suppress the symptoms. It is imperative to adopt new Islamic teachings that do not allow killing apostates (Redda Law). Islamic authorities must provide mainstream Islamic books that forbid polygamy and beating women. Accepted Islamic doctrine should take a strong stand against slavery and the raping of female war prisoners, as happens in Darfur under the explicit canons of Shariah (``Ma Malakat Aimanikum``). Muslims should teach, everywhere and universally, that a woman`s testimony in court counts as much as a man`s, that women should not be punished if they marry whom they please or dress as they wish.
We Muslims should publicly show our strong disapproval for the growing number of attacks by Muslims against other faiths and against other Muslims. Let us not even dwell on 9/11, Madrid, London, Bali and countless other scenes of carnage. It has been estimated that of the two million refugees fleeing Islamic terror in Iraq, 40% are Christian, and many of them seek a haven in Lebanon, where the Christian population itself has declined by 60%. Even in Turkey, Islamists recently found it necessary to slit the throats of three Christians for publishing Bibles.
Of course, Islamist attacks are not limited to Christians and Jews. Why do we hear no Muslim condemnation of the ongoing slaughter of Buddhists in Thailand by Islamic groups? Why was there silence over the Mumbai train bombings which took the lives of over 200 Hindus in 2006? We must not forget that innocent Muslims, too, are suffering. Indeed, the most common murderers of Muslims are, and have always been, other Muslims. Where is the Muslim outcry over the Sunni-Shiite violence in Iraq?
Islamophobia could end when masses of Muslims demonstrate in the streets against videos displaying innocent people being beheaded with the same vigor we employ against airlines, Israel and cartoons of Muhammad. It might cease when Muslims unambiguously and publicly insist that Shariah law should have no binding legal status in free, democratic societies.
It is well past time that Muslims cease using the charge of ``Islamophobia`` as a tool to intimidate and blackmail those who speak up against suspicious passengers and against those who rightly criticize current Islamic practices and preachings. Instead, Muslims must engage in honest and humble introspection. Muslims should -- must -- develop strategies to rescue our religion by combating the tyranny of Salafi Islam and its dreadful consequences. Among more important outcomes, this will also put an end to so-called Islamophobia.
Dr. Hamid, a onetime member of Jemaah Islamiya, an Islamist terrorist group, is a medical doctor and Muslim reformer living in the West.
How to End `Islamophobia`
By TAWFIK HAMID
May 25, 2007; Page A15
WSJ Online
Islamic organizations regularly accuse non-Muslims of ``Islamophobia,`` a fear and disdain for everything Islamic. On May 17, this accusation bubbled up again as foreign ministers from the Organization of the Islamic Conference called Islamophobia ``the worst form of terrorism.`` These ministers also warned, according to the Arab News, that this form of discrimination would cause millions of Muslims in Western countries, ``many of whom were already underprivileged,`` to be ``further alienated.``
In America, perhaps the most conspicuous organization to persistently accuse opponents of Islamophobia is the Council of American Islamic Relations. CAIR has taken up the legal case of the ``Flying Imams,`` the six individuals who were pulled from a US Airways flight in Minneapolis this past November after engaging in suspicious behavior before takeoff. Not long ago, CAIR filed a ``John Doe`` lawsuit that would have made passengers liable for ``malicious`` complaints about suspicious Muslim passengers.
In an interview at the time, CAIR spokesman Nihad Awad accused Rep. Peter King (R., N.Y.) of being an ``extremist`` who ``encourages Islamophobia`` for pointing out what most people would think is obvious, that such a lawsuit would have a chilling effect on passengers who witnessed alarming activity and wished to report it. We can only assume that Mr. Awad believes flyers should passively remain in a state of fear as they travel and submissively risk their lives. In this case, Congress is acting appropriately and considering passing a law sponsored by Mr. King that would grant passengers immunity from such lawsuits.
It may seem bizarre, but Islamic reformers are not immune to the charge of ``Islamophobia`` either. For 20 years, I have preached a reformed interpretation of Islam that teaches peace and respects human rights. I have consistently spoken out -- with dozens of other Muslim and Arab reformers -- against the mistreatment of women, gays and religious minorities in the Islamic world. We have pointed out the violent teachings of Salafism and the imperative of Westerners to protect themselves against it.
Yet according to CAIR`s Michigan spokeswoman, Zeinab Chami, I am ``the latest weapon in the Islamophobe arsenal.`` If standing against the violent edicts of Shariah law is ``Islamophobic,`` then I will treat her accusation as a badge of honor.
Muslims must ask what prompts this ``phobia`` in the first place. When we in the West examine the worldwide atrocities perpetrated daily in the name of Islam, it is vital to question if we -- Muslims -- should lay the blame on others for Islamophobia or if we should first look hard at ourselves.
According to a recent Pew Global Attitudes survey, ``younger Muslims in the U.S. are much more likely than older Muslim Americans to say that suicide bombing in the defense of Islam can be at least sometimes justified.`` About one out of every four American Muslims under 30 think suicide bombing in defense of Islam is justified in at least some circumstances. Twenty-eight percent believe that Muslims did not carry out the 9/11 attacks and 32% declined to answer that question.
While the survey has been represented in the media as proof of moderation among American Muslims, the actual results should yield the opposite conclusion. If, as the Pew study estimates, there are 2.35 million Muslims in America, that means there are a substantial number of people in the U.S. who think suicide bombing is sometimes justified. Similarly, if 5% of American Muslims support al Qaeda, that`s more than 100,000 people.
To bring an end to Islamophobia, we must employ a holistic approach that treats the core of the disease. It will not suffice to merely suppress the symptoms. It is imperative to adopt new Islamic teachings that do not allow killing apostates (Redda Law). Islamic authorities must provide mainstream Islamic books that forbid polygamy and beating women. Accepted Islamic doctrine should take a strong stand against slavery and the raping of female war prisoners, as happens in Darfur under the explicit canons of Shariah (``Ma Malakat Aimanikum``). Muslims should teach, everywhere and universally, that a woman`s testimony in court counts as much as a man`s, that women should not be punished if they marry whom they please or dress as they wish.
We Muslims should publicly show our strong disapproval for the growing number of attacks by Muslims against other faiths and against other Muslims. Let us not even dwell on 9/11, Madrid, London, Bali and countless other scenes of carnage. It has been estimated that of the two million refugees fleeing Islamic terror in Iraq, 40% are Christian, and many of them seek a haven in Lebanon, where the Christian population itself has declined by 60%. Even in Turkey, Islamists recently found it necessary to slit the throats of three Christians for publishing Bibles.
Of course, Islamist attacks are not limited to Christians and Jews. Why do we hear no Muslim condemnation of the ongoing slaughter of Buddhists in Thailand by Islamic groups? Why was there silence over the Mumbai train bombings which took the lives of over 200 Hindus in 2006? We must not forget that innocent Muslims, too, are suffering. Indeed, the most common murderers of Muslims are, and have always been, other Muslims. Where is the Muslim outcry over the Sunni-Shiite violence in Iraq?
Islamophobia could end when masses of Muslims demonstrate in the streets against videos displaying innocent people being beheaded with the same vigor we employ against airlines, Israel and cartoons of Muhammad. It might cease when Muslims unambiguously and publicly insist that Shariah law should have no binding legal status in free, democratic societies.
It is well past time that Muslims cease using the charge of ``Islamophobia`` as a tool to intimidate and blackmail those who speak up against suspicious passengers and against those who rightly criticize current Islamic practices and preachings. Instead, Muslims must engage in honest and humble introspection. Muslims should -- must -- develop strategies to rescue our religion by combating the tyranny of Salafi Islam and its dreadful consequences. Among more important outcomes, this will also put an end to so-called Islamophobia.
Dr. Hamid, a onetime member of Jemaah Islamiya, an Islamist terrorist group, is a medical doctor and Muslim reformer living in the West.
#901 Posted by abu_safwaan on May 25, 2007 10:25:06 pm
Re: # 900
Dr. Tawfik Hamid is a favorite of Daniel Pipe`s. He is not alone in his intellectual whoredom, Ayan Hirsi Ali, Wafa Sultan, Salamn rushdie, all these opportunists couldnt get immigration on their talents alone, they actually had to sell their sole to the devil and they gleefully obliged. Anyone who thinks that any of the above characters have a shred of originality or credibility needs to get there head out of the sand. They sell neo-con agenda with an arabic label because supposedly then it sounds credible and the daniel pipes and pat robertsons can sell the dung by saying that ``Look Muslims themselves are saying what an evil their own religion is``. Grow a brain for the love of GOD. Do simple reasearch on any of these jokers from independent resources and you`ll find out that they either were small time criminals who lied on their visa applications to get visit visas of western countries and then over-stayed or washed up authors with dwindling careers and eventually resorted to sensationalism and blatant lies just to get cheap notrierty, thats how they put food on the table so i dont blame them as much as those people who go an extra mile to be complacent and read intellectuality where there is none.
Dr. Tawfik Hamid is a favorite of Daniel Pipe`s. He is not alone in his intellectual whoredom, Ayan Hirsi Ali, Wafa Sultan, Salamn rushdie, all these opportunists couldnt get immigration on their talents alone, they actually had to sell their sole to the devil and they gleefully obliged. Anyone who thinks that any of the above characters have a shred of originality or credibility needs to get there head out of the sand. They sell neo-con agenda with an arabic label because supposedly then it sounds credible and the daniel pipes and pat robertsons can sell the dung by saying that ``Look Muslims themselves are saying what an evil their own religion is``. Grow a brain for the love of GOD. Do simple reasearch on any of these jokers from independent resources and you`ll find out that they either were small time criminals who lied on their visa applications to get visit visas of western countries and then over-stayed or washed up authors with dwindling careers and eventually resorted to sensationalism and blatant lies just to get cheap notrierty, thats how they put food on the table so i dont blame them as much as those people who go an extra mile to be complacent and read intellectuality where there is none.
#899 Posted by Zeena on May 25, 2007 9:28:28 pm
Re:#898 ZahraJ bibi
Alright, so UR calling me low level street urchin...............LOL
Bibi Zahra or begum sahiba
I do not call you names...I do not even interact with you and I do not even discuss about you.B/c the abuser and cyber harraser like you reminds me of a pagal lady who has nothing else to do , other than stalking me from thread to thread................LOL
Gosh, get a life, darling sista...
Honestly, instpite of me telling you millionth times NOT to abuse me....you persistently do......Why? don`t know...what`s your point here?
Bibi ji
How many times have I told you I am not interested,go , find some high class people around on this web site and on other web sites.....You are , too damn boring.............
Alright, I admit I am low class urchin( as per your gaali), I am a bad person, I am every bad thing in this world.............I am schizophrenic.....I am pervert.....(I am every of your gaalis for me)......
You can utter more gaalis for me,if that makes you happy.......
Honestly, I do not get offended b/c now I know your obsession for me is unbelievable.....
You can`t help it....I told you in each and every article and even in this article....I am not interested , please, LEAVE ME ALONE...................
Why you`re unable to comprehend this simple English?
Alright, call all your men friends and encourage them to abuse me...........May be your frustrations would get settled down this way.................
I do not consider you my friend, I do not consider you my enemy....You are NOTHING for me.............I do not acknowledge your presence.
So, keep on calling me names...........what difference does it make? Nothing......
And honestly, what you do is stalking...........
Just discuss about this article.....and I am not the topic of this article.............
Thank you.......God(Almighty) bless you and your restless soul...........
Alright, so UR calling me low level street urchin...............LOL
Bibi Zahra or begum sahiba
I do not call you names...I do not even interact with you and I do not even discuss about you.B/c the abuser and cyber harraser like you reminds me of a pagal lady who has nothing else to do , other than stalking me from thread to thread................LOL
Gosh, get a life, darling sista...
Honestly, instpite of me telling you millionth times NOT to abuse me....you persistently do......Why? don`t know...what`s your point here?
Bibi ji
How many times have I told you I am not interested,go , find some high class people around on this web site and on other web sites.....You are , too damn boring.............
Alright, I admit I am low class urchin( as per your gaali), I am a bad person, I am every bad thing in this world.............I am schizophrenic.....I am pervert.....(I am every of your gaalis for me)......
You can utter more gaalis for me,if that makes you happy.......
Honestly, I do not get offended b/c now I know your obsession for me is unbelievable.....
You can`t help it....I told you in each and every article and even in this article....I am not interested , please, LEAVE ME ALONE...................
Why you`re unable to comprehend this simple English?
Alright, call all your men friends and encourage them to abuse me...........May be your frustrations would get settled down this way.................
I do not consider you my friend, I do not consider you my enemy....You are NOTHING for me.............I do not acknowledge your presence.
So, keep on calling me names...........what difference does it make? Nothing......
And honestly, what you do is stalking...........
Just discuss about this article.....and I am not the topic of this article.............
Thank you.......God(Almighty) bless you and your restless soul...........
#896 Posted by tahmed32 on May 25, 2007 6:29:06 pm
hamidm: cant even spell ``wisdom``, thats how bad I am. :-(
#895 Posted by tahmed32 on May 25, 2007 6:28:16 pm
hamidm: if i was trying to start a religion, or in fact do anything more than pass time, chowk (with a tiny but loyal membership thru the years of a couple of dozen souls) would not exactly be the place to shed my pearls of widsom (or foolishness, depending on your point of view). :-)
#892 Posted by sattar2 on May 25, 2007 4:09:17 pm
... of course, I`ll do all that while claiming to be the real Muslim ... and sporting a ``quadiyyani-style`` goatee !!!!
#891 Posted by sattar2 on May 25, 2007 4:04:09 pm
hamidm (#886),
OK, I’ll be the first to admit: go for the biryanni … but don’t make the mistake of leaving behind your contact info! Especially if you find Jehovah’s Witness annoying!
I used to think that Ahamdis rile the ummah the most. Seeing the abuses being hurled at you, I am not so sure. Is it the alcohol? Perhaps I should become an Ahmadi who drinks, while flaunting Israeli money for Ahmadi mosques. That should really annoy abu and Urstruly … no??
#889 Posted by sattar2 on May 25, 2007 3:52:50 pm
abu, zeemax
You guys are an embarrassment to humanity. Filth in your posts says a lot about you, and nothing more. I usually stay away from such pow-wow, but your posts are unbearably nasty. I hope Chowk staff takes notice …
#894 Posted by abu_safwaan on May 25, 2007 5:58:55 pm
Re: # 889
blah blah blahh blah blah.. dont get mad n promise us u`ll share the evidence as u find it cause we all need saving, i would urge for ur sake to not hold ur breath...:)
blah blah blahh blah blah.. dont get mad n promise us u`ll share the evidence as u find it cause we all need saving, i would urge for ur sake to not hold ur breath...:)