Abrar Akbar May 20, 2007
#12 Posted by Urstruly on May 21, 2007 8:42:29 am
Re: # 11
Your assertion is incorrect. Today, the whole nation stands shoulder to shoulder with the lawyers and Chief Justice Iftekhar Chowdry in their battle for an independent judiciary and a rule of constitutional law in this country. The nation has sacrificed 42 martyrs to show that it is silent no more. The CJ of Pakistan has stood his ground and showed that he cannot be bought, intimidated or pushed back. The lawyers have stood their ground as well. The martial law and dictatorship has lowered itself to intimidate people of Pakistan with full force and fury of naked and brutal state machinery along with its fascist goons and allies.
The author of this article is telling rest of the judiciary, especially, justices of supreme court to grow some spine, like CJ. If one man can prove himself to be the David (pbuh) in front of Goliath then so can they. Fouji dictatorship has lost on all accounts already - morally, legally, and politically - so why do they (judges of supreme court) choose to remain with loosers?
We are silent no more.
Your assertion is incorrect. Today, the whole nation stands shoulder to shoulder with the lawyers and Chief Justice Iftekhar Chowdry in their battle for an independent judiciary and a rule of constitutional law in this country. The nation has sacrificed 42 martyrs to show that it is silent no more. The CJ of Pakistan has stood his ground and showed that he cannot be bought, intimidated or pushed back. The lawyers have stood their ground as well. The martial law and dictatorship has lowered itself to intimidate people of Pakistan with full force and fury of naked and brutal state machinery along with its fascist goons and allies.
The author of this article is telling rest of the judiciary, especially, justices of supreme court to grow some spine, like CJ. If one man can prove himself to be the David (pbuh) in front of Goliath then so can they. Fouji dictatorship has lost on all accounts already - morally, legally, and politically - so why do they (judges of supreme court) choose to remain with loosers?
We are silent no more.
#11 Posted by RitaVeda on May 21, 2007 7:45:14 am
It is always easy to tell somebody else to confront the high and mighty, while one remaing himself or herself in a safe corner. The writer, who is a citizen of Pakistan tries to pass the buck to judges, putting their everything including their life, career and familes, at stake. He, or those who support him on Chowk, do not like to leave their comfortable homes and facilities to register their protest aganist General Musharaff! Dear Sir, judiciary is an institution comprising people of this country. When 150 million people chose to remain silient over military take overs and Generals rule, why and how 13 judges will chose to stand up? You need to think it again.
#10 Posted by jzaki on May 21, 2007 7:42:01 am
Re: # 5
Hi Zeemax,
While I agree to the point that Judiciary may not be thinking the way this article asks it to, yet I find it difficult to accept your point regarding PCO. Assuming that all judges refuse to take oath on PCO, a dictator may have the power to fire all of them. The question is, would he like to do so in the face of internal & particularly external pressure.
I`d like to relate it to the freedom of media claims. Do you believe that media is free in this government`s rule because the rulers are so ``enlightened``? It is so because today, they couldn`t control it in the same manner as it was done in 1977 even if they wanted to. The recent details on President`s meeting with Queue league support this view.
It is very much a question of personal ambitions, aspirations and ethics when a judge accepts to take a new oath under PCO or writes down a decision that affects the whole nation. Saying that it is an attempt to save the ``system`` in plainly absurd. Had any of those savior decisions been able to restrain the dictators, NO! So, such decisions actually saved the people`s jobs who penned them down. (and even those jobs didn`t last long in some cases) In fact, this is the point in this article. Rise above saving your job, save the nation!
The argument that had there been all new judges, we might not have this opportunity today is also strange. All the current men are PCO judges and we cannot say that the new ones would not have reacted in such a situation in the same manner.
Your response is more of an excuse for all the decisions that the nation has suffered till this day.
Mr. Akbar: Wonderful piece of writing. I sincerely hope that it reaches its intended audience!
Take Care.
Hi Zeemax,
While I agree to the point that Judiciary may not be thinking the way this article asks it to, yet I find it difficult to accept your point regarding PCO. Assuming that all judges refuse to take oath on PCO, a dictator may have the power to fire all of them. The question is, would he like to do so in the face of internal & particularly external pressure.
I`d like to relate it to the freedom of media claims. Do you believe that media is free in this government`s rule because the rulers are so ``enlightened``? It is so because today, they couldn`t control it in the same manner as it was done in 1977 even if they wanted to. The recent details on President`s meeting with Queue league support this view.
It is very much a question of personal ambitions, aspirations and ethics when a judge accepts to take a new oath under PCO or writes down a decision that affects the whole nation. Saying that it is an attempt to save the ``system`` in plainly absurd. Had any of those savior decisions been able to restrain the dictators, NO! So, such decisions actually saved the people`s jobs who penned them down. (and even those jobs didn`t last long in some cases) In fact, this is the point in this article. Rise above saving your job, save the nation!
The argument that had there been all new judges, we might not have this opportunity today is also strange. All the current men are PCO judges and we cannot say that the new ones would not have reacted in such a situation in the same manner.
Your response is more of an excuse for all the decisions that the nation has suffered till this day.
Mr. Akbar: Wonderful piece of writing. I sincerely hope that it reaches its intended audience!
Take Care.
#9 Posted by Kulharee on May 21, 2007 7:35:31 am
What this article expresses is that there is not a single sane, honorable, moral and principled person left in Pakistan. Every sector of this godforsaken nation (military, judiciary, prostitution, politicians, clergy, academia, and entertainment, to name only a few) has been reduced to a puppet show for the entire world to see and laugh at the expense of 80 million illiterate Shia and Sunni Muslims of one of the most corrupt nations in the world.
What began in 1923 is showing it’s outcome now. What else did you expect?
What began in 1923 is showing it’s outcome now. What else did you expect?
#8 Posted by rf786 on May 21, 2007 7:26:36 am
Sincere, passionate, idealistic and beacon of hope.
Only one question: For a totalitarian state such as Pakistan where military is the central authority, what happens when the centre of axis is removed? Who fills in the vacum? Lal Masjid or another army general savior?
If General Musharraf actions are questionable to say the least, then the honorable CJ has also acted in a manner that violates the dignity of the office.
Basically. the people of Pakistan have been screwed over twice, once when the army general sacked the CJ and second time when the CJ in his capacity as the sitting CJ decided to be the leader of opposition.
Thanks to both of these gentlemen and their idiotic supporters, Pakistani ppl have lost all trust in the judicial system and Pakistan is being pushed ever so closer to a state of anarchy where writ of law is completly discredited.
Only one question: For a totalitarian state such as Pakistan where military is the central authority, what happens when the centre of axis is removed? Who fills in the vacum? Lal Masjid or another army general savior?
If General Musharraf actions are questionable to say the least, then the honorable CJ has also acted in a manner that violates the dignity of the office.
Basically. the people of Pakistan have been screwed over twice, once when the army general sacked the CJ and second time when the CJ in his capacity as the sitting CJ decided to be the leader of opposition.
Thanks to both of these gentlemen and their idiotic supporters, Pakistani ppl have lost all trust in the judicial system and Pakistan is being pushed ever so closer to a state of anarchy where writ of law is completly discredited.
#7 Posted by muqaddam on May 21, 2007 5:12:08 am
A sincere appeal obviously made by somebody of sound mind and with a lot of love for democracy, will it reach the judges and will they seize the moment and accelerate the permanent consignment of the fattened-on-public-money arrogant faujis to the barracks, that`s the question.
#6 Posted by samar1982 on May 21, 2007 4:35:25 am
Re: # 5,
`...this is not how the judiciary thinks, nor will it act against Musharraf in a decisive manner. It will look for a middle solution.`
That`s 100% again! Because this, even thinking, would require courage and stealth which has deserted Pakis from the day one. And judges and lawyers are the most corrupt and selfish people all over the world. So...
Samar
`...this is not how the judiciary thinks, nor will it act against Musharraf in a decisive manner. It will look for a middle solution.`
That`s 100% again! Because this, even thinking, would require courage and stealth which has deserted Pakis from the day one. And judges and lawyers are the most corrupt and selfish people all over the world. So...
Samar
#5 Posted by zeemax on May 21, 2007 4:21:46 am
The article correctly expresses the sentiments of most people in Pakistan, but this is not how the judiciary thinks, nor will it act against Musharraf in a decisive manner. It will look for a middle solution.
The judiciary is always aware of the consequences of moving against a military strongman. Not because of personal risks to themselves of such an action, but the risks to the country because even though the judiciary may give the correct judgment `and let the heavens fall` in the words of a great judge, the problem is that the heavens may actually fall when it`s the Pakistan Army that one is dealing with. The judiciary has no means of enforcing its judgments, and it`s the military which has the guns.
Justice Munir of the `law of necessity` fame also did what he did for the above reason. His judgment carried the provision that all laws promulgated by the Martial Law regime must be eventually ratified by an elected assembly. Little could he do though if such an assembly was never allowed to exist.
Same thing with the ZAB case. Even though the judges knew he couldn`t be executed under the law, they had to do it because otherwise Zia would have thrown out the entire judiciary and executed ZAB anyway.
Same thing with the taking of oath under PCO. If the judges didn`t take that oath, including Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhary, Musharraf was prepared to fire all of them (as he did with the ones who refused) and hire new judges in their place, and then today`s opportunity for the restoration of Judiciary`s power would not have arisen.
So it`s a complicated matter. Judges of superior judiciary have to walk a very tight rope. They have to try as far as possible to ensure survival of the judiciary against the military`s guns, and are compelled to compromise on principle for that larger objective, while hoping for a chance to rectify at some future point.
The judiciary is always aware of the consequences of moving against a military strongman. Not because of personal risks to themselves of such an action, but the risks to the country because even though the judiciary may give the correct judgment `and let the heavens fall` in the words of a great judge, the problem is that the heavens may actually fall when it`s the Pakistan Army that one is dealing with. The judiciary has no means of enforcing its judgments, and it`s the military which has the guns.
Justice Munir of the `law of necessity` fame also did what he did for the above reason. His judgment carried the provision that all laws promulgated by the Martial Law regime must be eventually ratified by an elected assembly. Little could he do though if such an assembly was never allowed to exist.
Same thing with the ZAB case. Even though the judges knew he couldn`t be executed under the law, they had to do it because otherwise Zia would have thrown out the entire judiciary and executed ZAB anyway.
Same thing with the taking of oath under PCO. If the judges didn`t take that oath, including Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhary, Musharraf was prepared to fire all of them (as he did with the ones who refused) and hire new judges in their place, and then today`s opportunity for the restoration of Judiciary`s power would not have arisen.
So it`s a complicated matter. Judges of superior judiciary have to walk a very tight rope. They have to try as far as possible to ensure survival of the judiciary against the military`s guns, and are compelled to compromise on principle for that larger objective, while hoping for a chance to rectify at some future point.
#4 Posted by Jamesmaxwell on May 21, 2007 1:21:42 am
Now that the people of Pakistan (including the people of Punjab) have shown that they are fed up of being treated like dumb cattle by the generals of Pakistan Army, the judges have a very clear choice: the people or the generals.
#3 Posted by Zeena on May 21, 2007 12:36:41 am
#2 samar sahib
Re:
Thanks,but No thanks...
Yes, we always agree to disagree,but, with grace...
Again to you , your faith and to me mine....Live and let live.
zeena
Re:
Thanks,but No thanks...
Yes, we always agree to disagree,but, with grace...
Again to you , your faith and to me mine....Live and let live.
zeena
#2 Posted by samar1982 on May 20, 2007 11:53:47 pm
Re: # 1, Dear Zeena,
I will not allow myself to lose this chance to agree with you 100%. My one, lifetime opportunity provided by the this great saint to be on your side! So, looking forward to your next greeting.
Samar
I will not allow myself to lose this chance to agree with you 100%. My one, lifetime opportunity provided by the this great saint to be on your side! So, looking forward to your next greeting.
Samar
#1 Posted by Zeena on May 20, 2007 11:32:56 pm
[[[My lords, you have the power, you have the authority, you have the requisite public support, do it. Musharraf, assuming he somehow survives this upheaval, can do absolutely nothing against. Yeah, absolutely nothing. He himself is desperately looking for cover. Come on, tell the world, pen is far, far stronger than LMGs and military boots. Opportunities like this don’t present themselves every day. This is a defining moment for the judiciary, for Pakistan – for all of us. ]]
[[Musharraf’s power is directly proportional to our fear and cowardice. The moment we stand up, his uniform, the mighty GHQ, all of its firepower will melt away. The commendable CJP has shown the way by courageously standing his ground, the rest of us must not now shy away to follow in his footsteps]]....
Dear writer(whoever you`re)
You just won my heart and soul by writing this gem...
Let me admit on an open forum here. I have never ever seen any article like this in the history of chowk.com.
And I congratulate Chowk editors/publishers for publishing such a brilliant timely article...
I was about to lose my hope b/c of some very insensitive and below the belts kind of articles which were written on the current state of an unfortunate country,called Pakistan....
But, after reading this article, my hope is rejuvenated and my trust on chowk staff has emerged again.....
yes, chowk staff, you`re not biased. You are fair enough to judge what to publish...

But, sometimes you just disappoint me for publishing some crap(sorry)..
Anyway....
Dear writer
Congratulations for writing such a piece with all the genuine thoughts and clarity of mind. We need writers like you on front page.
I will come up with my analysis of this situation later as time permits.
Take care
[[Musharraf’s power is directly proportional to our fear and cowardice. The moment we stand up, his uniform, the mighty GHQ, all of its firepower will melt away. The commendable CJP has shown the way by courageously standing his ground, the rest of us must not now shy away to follow in his footsteps]]....
Dear writer(whoever you`re)
You just won my heart and soul by writing this gem...
Let me admit on an open forum here. I have never ever seen any article like this in the history of chowk.com.
And I congratulate Chowk editors/publishers for publishing such a brilliant timely article...
I was about to lose my hope b/c of some very insensitive and below the belts kind of articles which were written on the current state of an unfortunate country,called Pakistan....
But, after reading this article, my hope is rejuvenated and my trust on chowk staff has emerged again.....
yes, chowk staff, you`re not biased. You are fair enough to judge what to publish...

But, sometimes you just disappoint me for publishing some crap(sorry)..
Anyway....
Dear writer
Congratulations for writing such a piece with all the genuine thoughts and clarity of mind. We need writers like you on front page.
I will come up with my analysis of this situation later as time permits.
Take care
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