The General vs. the Judge

Re: # 355

Pee-max

No need to splash your family album on the net, by the way u look so chuuuuute in the photograph.....

Now why dont u just respond to the Fatwa like a good wahabi.

#354 by rf786,

Sure. It was issued precisely keeping the rights of hindoos like you in mind :)

Re: # 353

Do u agree with this fatwa:

Al Azhar scholar favours adult breastfeeding

Daily Times Monitor

LAHORE: A fatwa by an Islamic scholar permitting women to breastfeed adults with whom they work has led to his suspension this month from al-Azhar University in Cairo, the world’s leading Sunni university, reports The Australian.

Izzat Atiyaa had issued the fatwa as a way around the prohibition in Islamic religious law against a woman working in private premises with a man who was not her close relative, says the report in The Australian. Breastfeeding, he argued, would create a familial relationship under Islamic law.

Dr Atiyaa explained to the Egyptian newspaper al-Watani al-Yawm that: “A man and a woman who are alone together are not (necessarily) having sex but this possibility exists and breastfeeding provides a solution to this problem (by) transforming the bestial relationship between two people into a religious relationship based on (religious) duties.”

In Islamic tradition, breastfeeding at infancy establishes a degree of familial relationship between nurse and child even if there is no biological relationship. Dr Atiyaa argued in his fatwa that if an adult male was nursed by a female co-worker it would likewise establish a familial bond that would permit them to work side by side without raising suspicion of illicit sex.

Dr Atiyaa headed al-Azhar University’s department dealing with hadith. He said he had based his ruling on one such tradition according to which, at the Prophet’s (peace be upon him) order, a man named Salem was breastfed by the wife of another disciple.
“The fact that the hadith regarding the breastfeeding of an adult is inconceivable to the mind does not make it invalid,” Dr Atiyaa said, in defending his ruling. “Rejecting it is tantamount to questioning the Prophet’s (pbuh) tradition.”

Naqshbandi,

...i dont know how it is the states business if female X and female Y want to get it on?

Same reason as this, i.e. legal sanction.


A German brother and sister who live as a couple and have four children are going to Germany`s highest court to try to legalize their relationship.

``This law is out of date and it breaches the couple`s civil rights ...`` Lawyer Endrik Wilhelm

Do you agree?

Re: # 350

naqshbandi,

..... the wahabis, deobandis and other `real` muslims are giving good muslims like you a bad name - is it possible to get them excommunicated or something ? .........

btw regarding something hamidm said in one of his earlier posts and also something my own reading has shown too which puzzles me: why is it that most people in the entertainment industry are shias?

re: 347

what is wrong with a bit of sapphic love if that is what they want to do? there´re places people PAY to go and see that stuff so it cant be all bad, can it? on a serious note i dont know how it is the states business if female X and female Y want to get it on?

it is well documented in both the Mughal Harems and those of the Ottomans and i am sure it was true during Abbasid and Umayyad times too. so what is the problem the wahabis have if they do it in private?

you should read oranges are not the only fruit!

Excuse my ignorance but isnt it true that the people who gave up the most during partition are those who left their homes in India and migrated to Pakistan? And I speak as a Punjabi although I dont think where your from is relevant. isnt everyone supposed to just be pakistani?

seeing the punjabi vs mohajir hatred on here has opened up my eyes and saddens me too. kind of puts the whole islam is a unifying theory into doubt doesnt it?

Re: # 347

zeemax,

........ this is so sad, it breaks my heart ........... on the other hand there is some good news :

``ISLAMABAD: The Supreme Court on Monday directed pop singer Abrarul Haq to omit the name ‘Parveen’ from his song ‘Parveen tu Bari Namkeen’ and not use such names in his lyrics in future. He was ordered to present an amended version of the song before the court within two weeks. ``

............. pakistan has been saved !

My daily pic for the pride and joy of hamidm2:




Enlightened moderation on the march in Pakistan !!!

frau sadna banned from fp ?

......... well, that is news to me - i thought she had entered a rss ashram for a refresher course run by goebbel`s grandson ...........

........... anyway, even though i think that she deserves to be sent to guantanamo as zeemax`s handmaiden, this ban is unfair and i would request chowk staff to lift it immediatley .......

......... on the other hand, zeena beti should be banned from chowk for her own protection until she comes of age ....... this is no place for an impressionable and innocent young person like her where she can be easliy led astray by charlatans like urstruly, zeemax and echoboom......... how would the chowk staff feel if she ended up as an intern at jamia hafsa, or entered the harem of some sixty year old jhadi, or - god forbid - became a suicide bomber .......... there is also the question of legal liability ..........

#zeena, #tahmed32

Thank you for standing up for the freedom of expression! :)

#312 by hamidm2

......... but i am surprised at your hatred for the mohajirs - i guess you have enough bile to spread around .............

I`m not against Urdu Speaking People (whom you call mohajirs ... I don`t). I`m against mutarwas. These are the people of mainly UP descent from the dregs of Urdu Speaking society who ride around three-a-bike and snatch mobile phones from ladies` hands on traffic crossings.

#331 by bjkumar

Here are Ms. Sadna`s comments! {.. Punjabis .. fought jihad in Afghanistan and Kashmir. NWFP`ers are still fighting jihad in Afghanistan .. Meanwhile Sindhis .. jirga justice .. Everyone .. gangs up against the Balochis who like to launch rocket attacks even in the best of times... all are without towels.

This is one of the weirdest arguments I`ve ever heard coming from sadna. It must have been in one of her weaker moments.

What she`s postulating is that the sitting Government of Sindh is engaged in Jihad, or insurgency, or jirga justice which is justified because Punjabis, Sindhis, Balochis, Pathans do it too and therefore all are without towels.

But I thought all these things were done against governments by disaffected people and not against the people by disaffected governments.

There is no parallel. Neither can I think of any such precedence elsewhere.

Since Ms. sadna is quarantined from FP, perhaps you would like to comment :~)

Re: # 340

{These very souls fought pitched battles in mainland India to achieve Pakistan. The successive generations didnt integrate well in Pakistan excpet a handful of elites.}

Successive generations who are settled in Punjab have integrated well, only problem appears to be in Karachi Hyderabad where by default they have become the majority or form a considerable portion of demographics. The question u have raised regarding integration of mohajirs into Pakistan is an integral issue that answers many of the problems plagueing this nation of 160mm souls.

Mohajirs of Karachi (majority population and various leaderships) have never ever raised the slogan to separate their homeland or regret their coming to Pakistan. No matter what people may say about stupid allegations about Jinnahpur another invention of the state to demonize the victim, it is a historical fact that mohajirs have always supported the concept of Pakistan from inception till date.

Sindh:
If there was an integration issue it was with Sindhis starting with JM Syed struggle for Sindhi rights (Sindhu Desh) as early as the sixeties, then back in the Eighties when that moron Zia ul Haq decided to obliterate PPP (Sindhi led leadership).

Baluchistan:
Baluchistan is dominated by tribal customs and some tribe or the other has had a problem with Pakistan since inception. Baloch insurrection continues to this date in the form of Bugti, Mengal and Murree demand for a separate Balochistan.

East Pakistan (Bengal):
Chapter of history.

Frontier (Sarhad):
Pathans have generally been supportive of Pakistan but they too have had their share of Pukhtoonistan freedom fighters albeit a minority but sufficient enough to worry the state of Pakistan ie the Punjabi establishment.

Mqm (Mohajir):
Mohajirs may be the majority in Karachi and near to majority in Hyderabad, they are still a minority in Sindh and Pakistani nation context. Therefore for them to demand separation would be suicidal and absurd. This is nothing but state propaganda that has developed into popular mythology with no evidence to back this allegation, the only reason why this idea was floated was to hide state sponsored terrorism and human right violations. Like the Punjabis, mohajirs also have their fortunes tied to the survival of Pakistan and this bond has always been used or misused by Sindhi nationalist against Mohajirs. So its damned if u r and damned if u r not.

Then u can very rightly ask, why so much violence in Karachi? Well for that u have to understand the origins of violence in the state of Pakistan. Till the seventies, Karachi was known as the city of lights, free society, liberal and very moderate. There was no overt violence except for the occassional shia-sunni divide and rare pathan (Gohar Ayub) show of force, Karachi enjoyed period of peace and harmony. Then came Zia LuL Haq and along with him came his Jihad and Karachi was transformed from a business oriented, peace loving, party city to a major hub for terrorists and smuggling of arms. Educational institutions of Karachi had never seen revolvers all of a suden JI led thunder squads were carrying KKK, revolvers and Karachi was flushed with a free flow of arms. Pitched battles for control of Karachi educational institutions were fought btw IJT thunder squad and nationalist (lefties) forces that constituted of Pathan+Baloch+Sindhi quota base students. It was in this environment where violence originated and its sad people forget the genesis of this violence.

While right and left clashed for power, mohajir or Urdu speaking students were being constantly harrassed, ridiculed and sidelined. Those who joined Jamiat found refuge but were also discriminated when it came to admissions in professional colleges or state jobs raising their level of frustration. This was the birthmark of APMSO, where studnents from different institutions of Karachi decided enough was enough and launch a struggle. All this crap about Zia creating Mqm against PPP is BS and popular propaganda. Had the state taken a few steps to ease the suffering for mohajir students, stemmed the flow of Afghan refugees into Karachi and allowed the stranded biharis back into Pakistan, there wud have been no Mqm or anything like that.

In brief, responsibility for integration lies with the state particularly for their minorities who develope sense of alienation and the state of Pakistan has demonstrated their inability or ineptitude in this regard on more than one occassion and more than one ethnic minority or majority (Bengal). On the contrary, it has been the state that has fanned ethnic divides for their short term gains at the cost of further alienating their people.

seamlessly.