The General vs. the Judge

Haha ... Echoboom is the limit .... (views exclusively of the author :)

May 28, 2007

How the Westoxicated Pakis were enslaved..

....`` I can`r read & write Urdu, I can`t cook Biryaani..Nihaari, I enjoy behaving westernish , kanjarR like, Im professional, I like goraa Ishtyle but hate Islamic laws...Is that not proof sufficient proof that I am maadrate, can cook Raushan-khayali-PuulaaOs, and maaadren, & like a snake molted my Desi Skin culture & religion?

But why O why they still mistake me for a Desi & a muslim?

Maybe I`ll act more KanjarR..only then they`ll know I am a graduate of MIT``

......................musings of a Desi woman caught in a Neuronal & hormonal Time-Warp.

#415 by abu_safwaan

AS LONG AS THe ACT DOESNT BECOME THE SOURCE OF CORRUPTION for THE SOCIETY AT LARGE.

Mohtarim, that`s exactly what I`m saying. If such acts are legalised (just as in gay marriages), then these no longer remain a taboo and result in societal decay.


#414 by Naqshbandi

...i would hope they wouldnt do such stuff but if they did i would let my personal objections be known. that is not the same as saying it shouldnt be legally allowed between consenting adults....because from a human rights pov there is no argument against it. yes we can use religious arguments but what if the person is non religious?

Sir, I salute you. You`re a true Sufi. As hamidm2 cheers your joining his ranks in #418 ... I intone in unison with you both:

MAULA HOOOOOOOOO !!!

Re: # 414

naqshbandi,

......... you are all right ! ...........even though organized religion is the biggest curse that has plagued mankind, all religious people are not rotten to the core like the wahabis here .......... thanks for restoring my faith (partially) .......

....... now, if you will accept ahmedis as muslims and lift the ban on bacon and whiskey, i will convert to naqshbandism, or whatever it is that you practice ............

Re: # 416

This read was like coming from heart. I think this the opinion and emotions of all Pakistanis today. We need to unite, there is no good in staying apart on the basis of issues which are completely non issues. We have common enemies and they don`t belong to one ethnic group, they all belong to same bloodsucking group. We have to rise against them ... united.

SalimChauhan: My ``compassion`` or lack thereof on the ``stranded pakistani`` issue does not matter one bit in real life, since Pakistan government policies are not set based on what some chowk poster writes. And by the same token, my views send a ``strong message`` to no one, and in fact you are the only chowk poster who has been brought this up.

And to repeat myself, I think I am merely stating the obvious that mqm`s violence and making of ethnic issues in the 1980`s reduced sympathies for the ``stranded pakistanis`` among many people. I recall behram mentioning this to you as well, so this is not exactly an outrageous conclusion. So, please dont see what I think is a perfectly reasonable conclusion as being ``lack of compassion``, although we can simply agree to disagree since it is not unreasonable for people to arrive at different conclusions based on the same set of facts.

And you have no basis for calling panjabis as being racist either: The proof of this is in the fact is that Musharraf`s overthrow of Nawaz Sharif was welcomed in the panjab and made possible by non-muhajir (panjabi/pathan) generals. The proof of this is in the election of Sindhis BB and ZAB with great popular support in the panjab. The proof of this is in the fact that thousands of ``muhajirs`` have left karachi and live peacefully in Lahore and Rawalpindi throughout the 1980`s, 1990`s and to this day. If people have turned against musharraf now, it is not because of his ethnicity but because he made the same mistake Nawaz Sharif made that started the path to his removal - he sought to gain absolute power, and tried to over-ride the authority of the Supreme Court. And the proof of this is in the fact that there has not been any mqm-like panjabi ethnic party even as a minority party. And the proof of this is in the fact that many panjabis speak urdu with the same ease as they do panjabi. I could go on, but if this is not enough to make you realize how wrong you are in terming panjabis as racist nothing will.

On the other hand, and as I noted earlier, panjabis (or pathans or baluch) are not exactly shaking with fear of mqm either. Musharraf is beholden to non-mohajirs for his power, which is based on a large military. If there has been no backlash against mohajirs in Lahore after the slaughter of May 12, it is not because of fear of mqm - rather it is because there is zero concern of mqm on the part of anyone other than those unfortunate enough to be living in karachi/hyderabad.

So, if you accept the fact that there is neither fear nor hatred for mohajirs on the part of non-mohajirs of pakistan, you need to see who benefits from this use of mqm to prevent the chief justice from speaking in the same peaceful manner in karachi as he had done a few days earlier in Lahore. It is certainly not the mohajir community, certainly not the ``stranded pakistanis``, and of course not the rest of pakistan either.

Democracy is the only way to go for Pakistan. Military rule has brought it nothing but fascism in one form or another - fascism of the kind promoted by religious parties (who have benefitted tremendously from military rule, and who have failed miserably in elections whenver Pakistanis have been given the chance to vote) or the ethnic fascism of mqm (which was created by zia to counter the popularity of PPP I believe).

Brave Pakistanis inside Pakistan are speaking out for democracy. Perhaps musharraf will realize the wisdom of permitting free and fair elections for president, perhaps he will not. And God only knows where all this will lead to. But now is the time for mohajirs to either stand up and be counted as being among those who stood up against continued military rule, or to be among those who committed the carnage of May 12 to help a misguided military ruler suppress the basic right to free speech and peaceful assembly that the chief justice was asserting that day.

You can agree or disagree with what I have written above, since these are merely my personal views as someone who wishes nothing more than to see all Pakistanis (regardless of ethnicity) prosper in a democratic nation that is at peace with itself, with its neighbors and with the rest of the world. I am not running for any elections (not even on chowk!!), so these are my sincere opinions and there is no hypocrisy in what I say.

Also, on a matter of lesser national importance (!), I hope you will think again about the other questions I raised about not picking on female posters on unplugged or on ``panjus`` who have done you no harm, and which (as I mentioned) is ultimately in our own interest. You may not like my repeating this, but as I said, I am not running for any popularity contests on chowk. :-)

PS: sorry all for a lengthy post. took me an hour to write this, so i will not be writing any posts, or at least such lengthy ones, in the near future. I did think that instead of all of us mindlessly taking the cue from May 12 and engaging in mohajir vs non-mohajir arguments, stop to think of the wisdom behind engaging in such arguments. This is a time for all Pakistanis (and indeed, all people of the subcontinent particularly India) to unite and pray for a constructive resolution of the current crisis that Pakistan is going though without further bloodshed.

My humble opinion is that what is halal and haram in Islam is quite obvious and as an individual we must strive to adopt what is halal and refrain from haram as much as possible. Let me say that thru my very limited knowledge of Islam i am of the opinion that a true Islamic state (which doesnt exist) will not concern itself with who is sleeping with who or what in the privacy of their home, they shouldnt even raid the house out of mere suspicion AS LONG AS THe ACT DOESNT BECOME THE SOURCE OF CORRUPTION for THE SOCIETY AT LARGE.

zeemax,

as i said i dont approve of it religiously or morally but i dont think i have to right to tell others how they choose to live as long as they dont harm others. if i had children i would obviously try to bring them up as good muslims and tell them such things are prohibited. if when they reached adulthood and lived under their own roofs i would hope they wouldnt do such stuff but if they did i would let my personal objections be known. that is not the same as saying it shouldnt be legally allowed between consenting adults.

because from a human rights pov there is no argument against it. yes we can use religious arguments but what if the person is non religious?

#409 Tahmed32 {``As I said, this ``stranded pakistan`` is the only issue you can find when I told you to back your daily rantings about ``cha cha char so bees`` the ``panjoo racist`` etc. about me. And, being the only straw you could find, you are trying to stretch it to the max by saying I am ``vehemently`` opposed - the fact is that this is a minor side issue on chowk, and out of the thousands of posts I have written you would be challenged to find even one where i bring up the issue other than in correcting you periodically when you start parroting it.``}

Tahmed Sahib,
I stand behind my allegation that by being vehemently opposed to the repatriation of ``stranded`` Pakistanis in BD you send a very strong and personal message to all of us Urdu speaking Mohajirs. Because you obviously don`t have any real animosity against all of those 300,000 unfortunate people, your lack of compassion is driven by your prejudice and hatred against the Urdu-speaking Mohajirs of Karachi and Hyderabad. In your own words, you don`t want to add to our numbers in Pakistan and for this dubious display of Muslim brotherhood, you want us to be grateful and loyal Pakistanis? We may be all ``Biharis, Muttarwas, Panahguzeers, HindustaaNRas, and paan-chewing bhayyas,`` but we are NOT stupid. Please acknowledge your own personal hatred and may Allah forgive you for your hypocrisy.

On the issue of fresh air, time off from Chowk, and other tangential suggestions, please don`t be such a busybody. I don`t care how you waste your time and request you to mind your own business. My use of multiple nicks was necessitated by the former Chowk management`s nepotism when they used to ban me totally just because certain influential people did not like my retaliations. Regardless, that problem is now solved and I am content to be myself. Thanks for your concern. I wish you had similar concern for the welfare of unfortunate Pakistanis who are shamelessly prevented from coming to their own country by a myopic government and a racist majority.

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Thanks for the great article, its objectivity, honesty and sheer bravery must be commended as always. The second last paragraph says it ALL. Pakistan is being bought and sold, but the money isn`t going to its people. The grand posturing politicians are just angry that they aren`t getting it. The Army has it and won`t let it go. It is all about who gets the money for selling to corporate interests. The joke is that the money will buy off a few people in their lifetime and ultimately go to Corporations. The real money will always go to the great Corporations and ultimately to their governments. Those who died in the streets of my country are the true unsung heroes of anti-globalization. Alas, who will write their story, who will carry their burden?

I hope that the solution you propose takes place, otherwise the dream of a sovereign and independent country will die with us.

zeemax: sorry, i used up all my chowk time on #409 below. :-(
will be back later to see the posts you addressed to me and may get back with a response.

#383 salimchauhan: you write ``When you vehemently oppose the repatriation of legitimate Pakistani citizens to their own country, you send a strong message.``

As I said, this ``stranded pakistan`` is the only issue you can find when I told you to back your daily rantings about ``cha cha char so bees`` the ``panjoo racist`` etc. about me. And, being the only straw you could find, you are trying to stretch it to the max by saying I am ``vehemently`` opposed - the fact is that this is a minor side issue on chowk, and out of the thousands of posts I have written you would be challenged to find even one where i bring up the issue other than in correcting you periodically when you start parroting it. And as i said, i am prepared to discuss it with any reasonable person on chowk if they have any questions on where I am coming from here which is nothing more than stating the obvious implications of mqms ghoonda-like behavior.

So, dont hide behind this issue that you have conveniently made up The facts of your hatred for me are as I stated in my previous post.

I see that while not writing pure abuse (as per your earlier post) this time you are merely calling me as a ``lazy old man`` while remaining quiet on the other issues I pointed out to you. Whether I am lazy or energetic you dont know, and as for my age - I consider that to be a plus even though coming from you it was no doubt meant as an insult. Because you see age as a sign of weakness, and like a classic bully you are on the lookout for any sign of weakness in anyone. Just as you see being female a weakness, and so routinely write such lewd ridicule of individual females who - as one female chowkie who happens to be part-mohajir put it - consider you a ``chowk cancer``.

Anyway, whil being quiet on the suggestion I gave you in my previous post it would be you to your advantage to reflect upon it. Last time I gave you advice (i.e. to end you stupid habit of using multiple nicks since you were fooling no one) you actually took it and have been better off since I think. That of course was when I was one of the few remaining chowkies who exchanged friendly posts with you. What I am suggesting now in my post below (to forget chowk for a minute and get some fresh air) may be harder to do, but rest assured it is meant in the same sincerity (not hypocrisy) as the earlier advice. Unless you enjoy being considered a ``chowk cancer`` by virtually all female posters (with the notable exception of zeena) and enjoy the ``chhittar parades`` I mentioned earlier that you periodically receive from otherwise perfectly friendly male posters (indian and pakistani alike) who on Chowk Unplugged. Now you can get mad at me for stating the obvious, and start trying to save face before a group of faceless people on chowk, or you can reflect on this, since you are not totally stupid.

A SHAMEFUL CHAPTER IN THE HISTORY OF NA PAK FOUJ - Affidevit of Chief Justice Iftekhar M. Chowdry.

Read and weep.

http://daily.urdupoint.com/todayNewsLive.php?news_id=31338&featured=1&cat_id=2