The General vs. the Judge

#401 by abu_safwaan,

Again point taken, but I suppose you`re pointing to the brother/sister marriage photo I posted to Naqshbandi. In response he said he supported it. Are you talking about that?

If that`s the case, I suggest you go back and read Naqshbandi`s response and then tell me whether I should consider him even as much a Muslim as hamidm2 is.

Zee,
I am now fully convinced that you are neither a racist nor a hypocrite. Your problem is one of size - a small brain and too much inferiority complex. You mask it by appearing to be racist, but then your small brain exposes you to be a simpleton - a PAINDOO. The Punju part just augments the problem. Khuda Hafiz. :)

#399 Zeemax {``Again, you`re lying! This hindoo 786 was talking about me and not tahmed32. Besides I`ve never heard tahmed32 use such vocabulary either.``}

Zee,
Yaar, kiss pagal ullu se qismat takraai he :)

Listen, fool - I never intended for ``this guy`` to refer to you. I was referring to Chacha Chaar Sau Bees, to whom the original #385 from rf786 was addressed. Also, I said: ``This guy knows only vocabulary that associated ``Maa di, Payn di`` with anatomical references such as ``bund, phuddi, and lun.``

``KNOWS`` is not the same as ``TALKS.``
I am not trying to fool you, just trying to set the record straight. Personally, I don`t care if I offend your sorry ass or the charlatan`s.

Zee, you are still a PAINDOO.

Re: # 398
Bhai sahab condemn MQM all you want, but when you ``spread love`` for all UPites that includes me and my family that has nothing but contempt for MQM, however we have no qualms about our heritage and especially you have much more responsibility since you are the dayi of Islam on this website. Saleem, tahmed can afford to sling mud at each other because they are not carrying that flag, you however shouldnt be posting nauseating photographs in retaliation. I am all for putting people in place when they disrespect our Religion and our prophet (PBUH) thats why i am usualyy the first one to remind hamidm and the veggies of their sorry existance but for individuals with whom we have differences of opinion in masail but our aqeedah is the same, we should and must practice caution. Aaap donnoo hazratt jabb ayk doosray kii maan behan karr rahayy hottay hein aapka kya qayall hayy kayy kalay, naheef, badsoorat, badboodar RSS madrasi kaysayy shadyanayy bajatayy hongay. Brayeyy meharbanii let people come from their moral and religious teachings you should struggle to follow yours.

Re: # 336

Zeena beti:

Very thoughtful and honest answers. I look forward to reading more of what you write. Hopefully, you will never make my belief that ``God is the imagination of Human Mind`` and issue between us.

Good luck

#397 by Salim_Chauhan,

Again, you`re lying! This hindoo 786 was talking about me and not tahmed32. Besides I`ve never heard tahmed32 use such vocabulary either.

You`re indeed a shameless liar and a manipulator for your nefarious agendas .. !!!

#392 by abu_safwaan,

Ok. Point taken. But only because of the last para which is indeed noble.

However, to present my defence, even Khalid Bin Waleed`s ass was hauled in by Abu Bakr when it was reported he had killed Malik bin Nuweir, an apostate who had actually turned Muslim. Blood money was paid out of State Treasury as a compromise after a long debate where Umar was actually in favour of harsh punishment for the commander in chief of his own armies, and whom Muhammad himself had titled as Saif-u-Allah (Sword of God). All that fuss for a `single` apostate who had turned back and unjustly killed.

The point is, the sword of a Muslim cannot unjustly fall on the neck of another Muslim. MQM killed 48 Muslims unjustly on 12 May, therefore my criticism upon their supporters.

#393 Zeemax {``ahmed is right. You`re a shameless liar. I have never used the vocabulary you are attributing to me i.e. :

>i>This guy knows only vocabulary that associated ``Maa di, Payn di`` with anatomical references such as ``bund, phuddi, and lun.``

Show me a single post even on UP where I have used this language. On the contrary it is you people who use it quite liberally ... !``}

Paindoo,
Relax! Cool Down. My #388 was referring to rf786`s #385,l which was in response to Chacha Chaar Sau Bees` #381. ``This guy`` I was referring to is Chacha Chaar Sau Bees.

And they wonder why we call them PAINDOO? :)

#391 by aquaris,

No doubt aquaris. You`re right. It is a fact that when the trains full of Urdu-Speaking Mohajirs were arriving at Lahore, Punjabis were there standing with picks and shovels and telling them ``Aggey jao ... Pakistan aggey hai``. Sindhis not only did no such thing, but rather gave them their prime port city... all in the name of Pakistan.

But I blame the Sindhi feudal leadership for always being involved in deal-making and letting things come to the head that they have, where Sindhis are not even a part of the equation in the conflict, nor a leg of the stool on which the solution rests. It is Sindhis` land, but everyone else but Sindhis are the major pieces on the chessboard.

Suspended CJ accuses Musharraf in new affidavit
The high-profile case of Pakistan`s suspended Chief Justice took a dramatic turn on Tuesday after the jurist accused President Pervez Musharraf, Premier Shaukat Aziz and chiefs of intelligence agencies of physically restraining him from leaving the Presidential office for over five hours on March 9 when he declined to resign.

As arguments on suspended judge Iftikhar M Chaudhry`s petition questioning the Presidential reference accusing him of misconduct and misuse of authority drew to a close after two weeks of hearing, the jurist sprang a surprise by filing an affidavit alleging that he was confined for over five hours at Musharraf`s camp office in Rawalpindi during which he was pressured to quit.

The petition is being heard by a 13-member full bench of the Pakistan Supreme Court.

Giving for the first time his side of the account of the day of his suspension, Chaudhry said he was ``grilled`` for over five hours by Musharraf, Aziz and Director Generals of ISI, Military Intelligence (MI) and Intelligence Bureau (IB) and was physically restrained from leaving the Army house in Rawalpindi, which is the President`s temporary office.

Chaudhry`s affidavit was filed by his lead counsel, Aitezaz Ahesan, after he concluded his arguments on the judge`s main petition before the bench challenging the Presidential reference.

The new allegations are expected to trigger a fresh furore against the Musharraf regime as the lawyers` organisations and opposition parties have mounted a biggest-ever offensive against the military-backed government for ill-treating the Chief Justice.

In his affidavit, Chaudhry claimed Musharraf insisted that he should resign. Musharraf also said that in case of his resignation, he would ``accommodate`` him.

Musharraf also said in case of his refusal to resign, Chaudhry will have to face the reference, ``which could be a bigger embarrassment`` for the suspended judge, the jurist alleged.

Chaudhry ``finally and more resolutely said `I wouldn`t resign and would face any reference since I am innocent; I have not violated any code of conduct or any law, rule or regulation; I believe that I am myself the guardian of law. I strongly believe in God who will help me`

``This ignited the fury`` of Musharraf who ``stood up angrily and left the room along with his MS (Military Secretary), COS (Chief of Staff) and the Prime Minister of Pakistan, saying that others would show evidence`` to him, Chaudhry`s affidavit said.

Chaudhry alleged that he was ``illegally and unlawfully restrained from performing his constitutional functions as a judge of this Honourable Court and as Chief Justice of Pakistan`` and sent on compulsory leave by Musharraf for his refusal to resign.

He also gave graphic details of what happened to him when he went to see Musharraf on March 9 and the subsequent events during which he was allegedly confined to his house, manhandled by police when he along with his wife tried to walk to the apex court to attend a hearing by the Supreme Judicial Council (SJC).

Chaudhry said on March 9 he went to meet Musharraf after disposing of cases in the court. His petition, however, was silent whether he went to see the President on his own or was summoned. Musharraf has already said Chaudhry came to see him on his own.

After five minutes of Chaudhry`s arrival at the President`s camp office, Musharraf ``wearing his Military Uniform came into the room along with his MS and ADC,`` the affidavit said. As soon as the military ruler took his seat, ``a number of TV cameramen and photographers were also ushered into the room. They took several pictures and made movie footage.``

It said initially the discussions focussed on SAARC Law Conference, SAARC Chief Justices` meet in Karachi, which was subsequently cancelled, and the concluding session of the Golden Jubilee ceremony of the Supreme Court.

After that Musharraf said a complaint against Chaudhry had been received by him from a Judge of Peshawar High Court.

``Chaudhry replied that it was not based on true facts as his case had been decided by a two-member bench and that attempts were being made to maliciously involve the other member of the Bench as well,`` according to the affidavit. On this, Musharraf said there were a few more complaints against Chaudhry as well. ``After saying so, he directed his staff to call the other persons.``

On the direction of Musharraf, ``the `other persons` entered the room. They included the Prime Minster, DG MI, DG ISI, DG IB, COS and another official. All officials (except DG, IB and COS) were in uniform,`` Chaudhry`s petition said.

Musharraf ``started reading from small pieces of paper with notes on them which he had in his hand. There was no single consolidated document. The allegations which were being put ... had been taken from the contents of a notorious letter written by Naeem Bukhari with absolutely no substance in them.``

Bukhari, a lawyer and journalist wrote the letter to Chaudhry before March 9 making several allegations and challenged him to prosecute him under contempt of court but Chaudhry said he ignored it.

Chaudhry refuted the charges as ``being baseless and engineered to defame him personally and the judiciary as a whole,`` the affidavit said, adding he ``promptly denied the veracity and credibility of these allegations as well.``

After this, the petition said Musharraf accused him of obtaining cars, including a Mercedes, from the Supreme Court for his family which Chaudhry said he vehemently denied.

Then Musharraf charged him with interfering in the affairs of the Lahore High Court and not heeding to most of its recommendations.

The meeting continued for not more than 30 minutes.

After Musharraf left, ``The DG MI, DG ISI and DG IB remained behind and continued to sit with`` Chaudhry, the affidavit said, adding they did not show the judge a single piece of evidence. ``In fact, no official except DG ISI had some documents with him but he also did not show anything.``

During the hearing on Tuesday, Ahsan alleged in the apex court today that Musharraf held ``personal malice`` against Chaudhry and wanted him removed from office.

He charged that Musharraf wanted to ``humble, humiliate and subjugate`` the top jurist.

Musharraf`s prime concern was not properly investigating the charges against Chaudhry, ``but just to remove the Chief Justice from his office,`` Ahsan claimed. ``This is the personal malice I`m alleging.... The malice is of the President.``

He said he would provide evidence of ``malice`` later in his arguments.

``If the President had acted constitutionally, he should have been a post office,`` Ahsan said, meaning it was Musharraf`s role to merely convey information.

......it`s one step forward but 2 steps backward 4 MQM.

#388 by Salim_Chauhan,

tahmed is right. You`re a shameless liar. I have never used the vocabulary you are attributing to me i.e. :

>i>This guy knows only vocabulary that associated ``Maa di, Payn di`` with anatomical references such as ``bund, phuddi, and lun.``

Show me a single post even on UP where I have used this language. On the contrary it is you people who use it quite liberally ... !

Aap tamam Ashab ka masla yeah hayy kay harr aadmii apnii lobby ka mauqaff istadlal sayy dohrata rehta hayy, Allah kayy bandoon kabhii dimag khulla rakh karr taasub ka chashma uttarr karr haq bhii kaha karoo.

Baatt kya horahii thii naqshbandii koo moqqa milla unhoon nayy kaha acha moqaa hayy Wahabiyoon koo latarr doo, hazratt yahan mauzoo-e-guftugoo thaa whabiyatt kii abtarii or barelwiyatt ka turahe-imtiaz? Can you be any pettier?

Zeemax you do more harm to the cause of Islam for the audience of this site when you speak from both side of your mouth. How can someone with an understanding of Islam can utter such vile and filth for another Muslim just so he can pander to his pind`s political shortsightedness. UP wallaoon kayy barayy mein phool jharnayy sayy pehlayy, apnayy girayban mein jhank liya karein, kaysayy kaysayy lala-0-gul aapkayy soobayy nayy iss mulk to nawazayy hein jiskii badulat hamm iss izzat-afza muqam parr dunya kayy samnayy kharayy hein.

Yarr saleem Bhai koii khuda kaa naam layta hayy banda. Bhai ajeeb ibham ka shikarr hoo aap. Pehlay yeah faysla karoo kayy aapp logg chahtayy kya hoo, poori qaum ayk ajeeb maqmasayy ka shikar hay. Kya hamara mustaqbil Pakistan kayy saath hayy? Yeahh ham mein itna tappar hayy orr uskayy saath kya waqaii khi, hyderabad ki aksaryat apna mustaqbil pakistan sayy alag karnayy kii rawadarr bhii hay? Mayra qayal hayy kayy in donoo sawaloon ka jawab nafii mein hay. Hamein bahysiyat-e-qaum jamhoriyat pasandoon kayy haath mazboot karnayy chahyein. Khudara yeah bibi or mian kay chakkarr sayy niklein, ham apnayy shehroon mein aksaryat hein, hamein jamhoriyat raas aatii hayy. Mulk mein hawa daykhein kiss taraf kii chall rahii hayy. Hamein jamhoriyaatt suit kartii hay, yanii kayy kiss qadarr jahalatt or beygheyrati kii baatt hayy kayy jiss fauj kayy haathh abb tak rangeen hein hamari galiyoon mein behnayy walay qoon sayy, woh fauj joo zara barabar qayall nahii karayy gii phirr wohii barbariyat dohranayy mein, aapp ussii fauj kayy haath mazboot kar rahay hein? ussii fauj kay saath hambistarii karnayy parr na sirf yeah kayy muzir hein balkayy ``shah sayy barh karr shah kayy wafadar`` mexican auratoon kii tarahh barh charh karr brawl mein apnayy ``man`` kaa diffa bhii kar rahayy hein? Kuch aqal kayy naqun lijyayy hazrat. Aaap yaqqeen janiyayy MQM ko iss daffah vote sirf or sirf mustafa kamal ki wajjah sayy parnayy wala hay, mayra shehar bohat vibrant hayy yeah sheikhupura ka koii gaoon nahii hayy naa hii MQM hamarii chaudhryy hay, jiss izzat sayy sar parr bithaya thaa, doodh mein makhii kii tarah sayy nikal bahar kiya jayega MQM ko khi ki siyasat say apnay vote ki taqat say agar MQM nay apna jabirana rawwaya nahii badla.

Can`t help it.

But Sindh Kissee kay Bap ki jageer naheen hey.

Na hi kissi ki Maan ko Jaheez meen Milla thaa.



47 meen Sir akhoon per bithaya tha....to 2007 meen uska difa Bhi ker sektey heen...

tahmed32,

But give thought to my suggestion to become a spokesman for mqm.

I would much rather become a spokesman for the MQM `bajis` whom I heard were in regular supply to Pir Sahib every night for his blessings when he was here ... dunno about now ... :)

#342 by rf786 on May 29, 2007 1:43am PT

Thanks 4 the elaborate post explaining various issues in Pakistan. The details on the birth of MQM are new to me (hither to unknown).

I dont blame u agin 4 pointing out Zia 4 this mess.

What`s the way out????????? That`s the trillion Rupee question.

Sometimes I feel that this argumenst cyclical.

Aasif,

I know u are a pleasant liberal but not `that` liberal.

I can see the diff btw u and zeemax. He wants them to be beheaded but u want them let go. My view is that as a society we shud no way condone the act nor punish them by death. I dont know how to put it but I dont apporve of such relations.

Saleem,

Confrontation and conflict rocks the very boat called Pakistan. There`s a middle way i.e peace. Even if we take MQM as a ruling party, they need a willing constuency even if they are Punjabi. If Punjabis are incorrigible, then it`s a different case.

Like it or not, it one step forward but 2 steps backward 4 MQM. As a ruling party MQM ought to be more responsible in articulating abt the violence perpetrated by PPP and ANP. If a dog bites us we cant bite it back. That`s the major diff btw a law breaker and a law upholder. By resorting to violence, MQM joined the ranks of the law breakers.