The General vs. the Judge

Re: # 416

Dear tahmed32,

If u will be kind enough to allow me the opportunity to respond, it will be greatly appreciated. Purpose is not to blow holes in your argument but to state the other point of view.

{And the proof of this is in the fact that there has not been any mqm-like panjabi ethnic party even as a minority party}

Punjab is the majority by default thus has no need to remind others of its status. Pakistan has had its share of ethnic parties since inception which is not mentioned by yourself or the general interactors painting Mqm as the Only ethnic party. ANP is and has always been a Pathan nationalist/ethnic party, PPP used to play their Sindh card back in the eighties-nineties, NS PML used the Jaag Punjaabi Jaag mantra against PPP (Sindhi) back in 1988 and Balochistan political scene has always been dominated by nationalist/ethnic parties.

{On the other hand, and as I noted earlier, panjabis (or pathans or baluch) are not exactly shaking with fear of mqm either.... If there has been no backlash against mohajirs in Lahore after the slaughter of May 12...}

Why this jingoistic rhetoric? Does the Ghandasa need to be raised everytime a minority challenges the majority? What kind of backlash in Lahore are u talking about? Is this a threat to those settled urdu speaking Lahoris? Some clarification will help. By the way, when Pak soldiers are being killed by Wana militants, whu dont u express the same sentiments for your/our pathan brethren?

{ethnic fascism of mqm (which was created by zia to counter the popularity of PPP I believe).}

Ethnic fascism? What Pathan Anp and Baloch ethnic parties practice that is national politics? Clearly, your writings on Mqm betray some deep seated or conditioned hatred which makes it rascist because the same rancour is not seen for other ethnic people. As mentioned above, why do u not express the same sentiments for the Pathan nationalists killing Pak soldiers and their supporters in the tribal and frontier belt?

And please, Zia did not create Mqm to counter the popularity of PPP simply because PPP never had a popular base in Karachi or Hyderabad, if there was any political party to lose because of Mqm it was primarily JI followed by JUP, both parties were supporters of Zia.

{Brave Pakistanis inside Pakistan are speaking out for democracy.}

Where do these brave Pakistanis vanish when state terrorism is practiced on the citizens of Karachi, Hyderabad, Balochistan? Where do these brave citizens find refuge when Naseer Lulla Baber is hailed as a national hero? How does this bravery evaporate when confronted by the Lal Masjid/Taliban terrorism?

{since these are merely my personal views as someone who wishes nothing more than to see all Pakistanis (regardless of ethnicity) prosper in a democratic nation that is at peace with itself, with its neighbors and with the rest of the world}

Nice words, wud sound better if some fairness, objectivity is expressed in real terms. Classic example would be this recent episode involving Mqm and CJ visit to Karachi. I do not support what Mqm did nor do I condone their actions BUT for the love of god cannot understand the reaction of Punjab and Frontier. For 12years, Karachi/Hyderabad were burning with state sponsored terrorism and never, never did anyone from Frontier or Punjab stage such a vehement opposition being expressed post May 12. For the last atleast two years, Taliban or Pathan rebellion is raging on the western border, but not once has any political leader (Imran Khan et al) expressed the same anguish as being displayed against Mqm. More than six hundred pak soldiers have been killed on the western border, yet that does not draw even whisper of condemnation by JI, JUI, ANP, PTI etc tec. Is this not classic racial bigotry?

Let me conclude by saying, Pakistan is a state that comprises of 160MM citizens of diverse religious and ethnic backgrounds the earlier we start respecting each other the better.

Re: # 416

This read was like coming from heart. I think this the opinion and emotions of all Pakistanis today. We need to unite, there is no good in staying apart on the basis of issues which are completely non issues. We have common enemies and they don`t belong to one ethnic group, they all belong to same bloodsucking group. We have to rise against them ... united.

My humble opinion is that what is halal and haram in Islam is quite obvious and as an individual we must strive to adopt what is halal and refrain from haram as much as possible. Let me say that thru my very limited knowledge of Islam i am of the opinion that a true Islamic state (which doesnt exist) will not concern itself with who is sleeping with who or what in the privacy of their home, they shouldnt even raid the house out of mere suspicion AS LONG AS THe ACT DOESNT BECOME THE SOURCE OF CORRUPTION for THE SOCIETY AT LARGE.

zeemax,

as i said i dont approve of it religiously or morally but i dont think i have to right to tell others how they choose to live as long as they dont harm others. if i had children i would obviously try to bring them up as good muslims and tell them such things are prohibited. if when they reached adulthood and lived under their own roofs i would hope they wouldnt do such stuff but if they did i would let my personal objections be known. that is not the same as saying it shouldnt be legally allowed between consenting adults.

because from a human rights pov there is no argument against it. yes we can use religious arguments but what if the person is non religious?

Re: # 414

naqshbandi,

......... you are all right ! ...........even though organized religion is the biggest curse that has plagued mankind, all religious people are not rotten to the core like the wahabis here .......... thanks for restoring my faith (partially) .......

....... now, if you will accept ahmedis as muslims and lift the ban on bacon and whiskey, i will convert to naqshbandism, or whatever it is that you practice ............

#409 Tahmed32 {``As I said, this ``stranded pakistan`` is the only issue you can find when I told you to back your daily rantings about ``cha cha char so bees`` the ``panjoo racist`` etc. about me. And, being the only straw you could find, you are trying to stretch it to the max by saying I am ``vehemently`` opposed - the fact is that this is a minor side issue on chowk, and out of the thousands of posts I have written you would be challenged to find even one where i bring up the issue other than in correcting you periodically when you start parroting it.``}

Tahmed Sahib,
I stand behind my allegation that by being vehemently opposed to the repatriation of ``stranded`` Pakistanis in BD you send a very strong and personal message to all of us Urdu speaking Mohajirs. Because you obviously don`t have any real animosity against all of those 300,000 unfortunate people, your lack of compassion is driven by your prejudice and hatred against the Urdu-speaking Mohajirs of Karachi and Hyderabad. In your own words, you don`t want to add to our numbers in Pakistan and for this dubious display of Muslim brotherhood, you want us to be grateful and loyal Pakistanis? We may be all ``Biharis, Muttarwas, Panahguzeers, HindustaaNRas, and paan-chewing bhayyas,`` but we are NOT stupid. Please acknowledge your own personal hatred and may Allah forgive you for your hypocrisy.

On the issue of fresh air, time off from Chowk, and other tangential suggestions, please don`t be such a busybody. I don`t care how you waste your time and request you to mind your own business. My use of multiple nicks was necessitated by the former Chowk management`s nepotism when they used to ban me totally just because certain influential people did not like my retaliations. Regardless, that problem is now solved and I am content to be myself. Thanks for your concern. I wish you had similar concern for the welfare of unfortunate Pakistanis who are shamelessly prevented from coming to their own country by a myopic government and a racist majority.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

Thanks for the great article, its objectivity, honesty and sheer bravery must be commended as always. The second last paragraph says it ALL. Pakistan is being bought and sold, but the money isn`t going to its people. The grand posturing politicians are just angry that they aren`t getting it. The Army has it and won`t let it go. It is all about who gets the money for selling to corporate interests. The joke is that the money will buy off a few people in their lifetime and ultimately go to Corporations. The real money will always go to the great Corporations and ultimately to their governments. Those who died in the streets of my country are the true unsung heroes of anti-globalization. Alas, who will write their story, who will carry their burden?

I hope that the solution you propose takes place, otherwise the dream of a sovereign and independent country will die with us.

zeemax: sorry, i used up all my chowk time on #409 below. :-(
will be back later to see the posts you addressed to me and may get back with a response.

#383 salimchauhan: you write ``When you vehemently oppose the repatriation of legitimate Pakistani citizens to their own country, you send a strong message.``

As I said, this ``stranded pakistan`` is the only issue you can find when I told you to back your daily rantings about ``cha cha char so bees`` the ``panjoo racist`` etc. about me. And, being the only straw you could find, you are trying to stretch it to the max by saying I am ``vehemently`` opposed - the fact is that this is a minor side issue on chowk, and out of the thousands of posts I have written you would be challenged to find even one where i bring up the issue other than in correcting you periodically when you start parroting it. And as i said, i am prepared to discuss it with any reasonable person on chowk if they have any questions on where I am coming from here which is nothing more than stating the obvious implications of mqms ghoonda-like behavior.

So, dont hide behind this issue that you have conveniently made up The facts of your hatred for me are as I stated in my previous post.

I see that while not writing pure abuse (as per your earlier post) this time you are merely calling me as a ``lazy old man`` while remaining quiet on the other issues I pointed out to you. Whether I am lazy or energetic you dont know, and as for my age - I consider that to be a plus even though coming from you it was no doubt meant as an insult. Because you see age as a sign of weakness, and like a classic bully you are on the lookout for any sign of weakness in anyone. Just as you see being female a weakness, and so routinely write such lewd ridicule of individual females who - as one female chowkie who happens to be part-mohajir put it - consider you a ``chowk cancer``.

Anyway, whil being quiet on the suggestion I gave you in my previous post it would be you to your advantage to reflect upon it. Last time I gave you advice (i.e. to end you stupid habit of using multiple nicks since you were fooling no one) you actually took it and have been better off since I think. That of course was when I was one of the few remaining chowkies who exchanged friendly posts with you. What I am suggesting now in my post below (to forget chowk for a minute and get some fresh air) may be harder to do, but rest assured it is meant in the same sincerity (not hypocrisy) as the earlier advice. Unless you enjoy being considered a ``chowk cancer`` by virtually all female posters (with the notable exception of zeena) and enjoy the ``chhittar parades`` I mentioned earlier that you periodically receive from otherwise perfectly friendly male posters (indian and pakistani alike) who on Chowk Unplugged. Now you can get mad at me for stating the obvious, and start trying to save face before a group of faceless people on chowk, or you can reflect on this, since you are not totally stupid.

A SHAMEFUL CHAPTER IN THE HISTORY OF NA PAK FOUJ - Affidevit of Chief Justice Iftekhar M. Chowdry.

Read and weep.

http://daily.urdupoint.com/todayNewsLive.php?news_id=31338&featured=1&cat_id=2