Just a Woman

#125

that has got to be the biggest bakwaas i have heard in a long time. since when did dressing in shalwar kameez dupatta or churidaar pijama kurta dupatta stop being a ``careful`` way of dressing? Women get chased on the street, men treat a dupatta as if it were nothing. It is not just the woman who has to be careful for now social norms and restrictions and what not. . .women who behave properly with decorum get chased on the street.

Re: # 126
That is exactly the point, in the South Asian communities, a woman cannot be too careful about these thingsl

The subcontinent has a long way to go before men stop seeing women as sex objects. Due to social norms and restrictions which forbid familiarity between the sexes, the average male is usually so frustrated that proximity to a member of the opposite sex often brings out the libidinous in him. For now it is the woman has to be careful how she dresses and moves so as not to attract unwarranted attention form the male species.

PS: I suppose the global tribute is global because Sonia Gandhi is italian.

I am a bit surprised that some people want us to accept things about Gandhi when this article has nothing to do with the freak.

I mean surely if Gandhi is such a great guy... YLH or AFS accepting him as such or nor accepting him as such shouldn`t matter...

#121

My dear, do not get too impressed or unduly influenced by the antics of either Ana or `Zana acts! :)

I need all the supporters I can salvage from this crowd!

So, before you become a dal-badloo - remember, who REALLY loves you!

And don`t worry about Ana - she is ``immune`` to my ``charms``!

After all, I am....

...Just A Man!

(I KNEW there was a way to tie this above gobble-d-gook to the topic at hand!) :) :)

`#119 by bjkumar on June 4, 2007 8:40pm PT
Jo kahee gayee na mujh se
Wo zamana - keh raha hai
Ki fasana - ban gayee hai
Meri baat - chalte, chalte! `

wah ustad wah....kya baat kahi hai. aaj ka din ban gaya!!!!!!

#118 Devkant

Jo kahee gayee na mujh se
Wo zamana - keh raha hai
Ki fasana - ban gayee hai
Meri baat - chalte, chalte!

`#115 by bjkumar on June 4, 2007 7:31pm PT
A new, global tribute to Gandhi `

OUCH!!!! praising gandhi on the thread of mrs. wanna be jinnah.

bj, you are in for some serious verbal diarrhea on gandhi and jinnah from the husband wife combo. don`t tell me u weren`t warned!!!!!

#116 Ana

Ms. Ana, I use terms like ``Ms.`` and ``Ma`m`` as terms of respect. It is true that in the past I have called you with the more informal ``Ana``. However, that was then - when you were a regular denizen of this here insane asylum! :)

Since then, you have made a firm decision to absent yourself except for guest appearances - like the current one. Therefore, it is only fair that you should be accorded all the courtesies due a guest! I hope you understand.

More important, I need to know your response to #114.

Thank you.

Beejay,

If I failed to do so the other time, let me make myself clear: If I enjoy using my Spanish with those who speak Spanish, it should not be taken as patronizing to those of you who do not speak it. It is no different from us speaking our languages to one another in the presence of those who do not understand NOT because we are taking on a patronizing attitude, but because we are comfortable with it.

And if you have forgotten, let me remind you. I go by ana here. Not Ms. Ana, not lady, or anything else. If I wanted to be addressed in any other way, I would have indicated that by my nick here. No one else may think so when you address them as Ms. whoever, but I do find your constant use of that patronizing, especially when I have asked you before to refrain from doing so.

I have never really left Chowk, but thanks for the welcome all the same. It is healthier not to grace my presence here on a continual basis.

#37 Hamidm2

[ please feel free to post all the ...pictures you want ]

Sorry, my dear - an onslaught of janitorial duties made me overlook your post. As always, your wish must be considered my command. However, since a picture is worth a thousand words (or so) - I would like to instead post the following recent news item which ought to invigorate, stimulate, and perhaps even titillate you! :)

---

A new, global tribute to Gandhi
5 Jun, 2007 l 0045 hrs IST
TIMES NEWS NETWORK
NEW DELHI: Brand Gandhi is about to get bigger on the global stage. As many as 114 UN member-countries joined hands on Monday to support India`s resolution to declare Mahatma Gandhi`s birthday on October 2 as the `International Day of Non-Violence`.

The move to get the international community to pay tribute to Gandhi`s ideology was a follow-up to the Satyagraha conference organised by the Congress early this year and a subsequent campaign launched by the government.

Speaking at the conference, titled ‘Peace, Non-Violence and Empowerment — Gandhian Philosophy in the 21st Century’, Congress president Sonia Gandhi had called for steps to get the Mahatma’s birthday marked as the International Day of Non-Violence.

Anand Sharma, minister of state for external affairs who was Sonia’s point person for the conference, welcomed the outpouring of global support to the campaign. ‘‘It’s great to see the global response to the declaration adopted at the Satyagraha conference.’’

Sharma, who was confident that the resolution would be adopted at the UN, said it also reflected the respect Gandhi commands universally and the enduring relevance of his philosophy.

After a resolution was adopted at the Satyagraha meet, Sonia wrote to UN secretary general Ban Ki-Moon requesting him to make it a UN declaration. It was followed up by a similar request by PM Manmohan Singh to the UN chief and letters by the two to president of UN General Assembly Sheikha Haya Rashed Al Khalifa.

Singh and Sonia also wrote to several world leaders, including Nelson Mandela, British PM Tony Blair, Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva, Spain’s PM Jose Luis Rodriguez and South African President Thabo Mbeki to secure support.

#113 (add-on)

A side issue, I hope you had an opportunity to read my i-log Star over Bethlehem, (especially its footnote) which was posted on December 25, 2006.

Do let me know if you missed it - so I can repost it on my interactor`s page.

Thank you.

#112 Ms. Ana

Kindly do not make light of my very real, sincere, and warm regards for you - of which I have never made any secret over the past two years, if only in my own peculiar way.

I am not now nor ever have been patronizing to you in this nick or any other! In fact, if I remember accurately, it was YOU who once assumed that particular attitude by trying to impress simple janitorial people with your vast knowledge of the Spanish language.

I am sure you will reconsider your positions on such matters by the time you make your next visit to these hallowed halls of chowk...

...perhaps sometime within the next six months, based on your recent track record?!

Thank you.

And if you have decided to grace us with your visits on a more frequent basis - let me take the opportunity to say - welcome back home!

Which was precisely my point, if I failed to make it.

Thank you for being so patronizing.

Re: # 112

Hehehehe...bihari ke le li. Go back to UP, beej. Nobody wuvs you here!

#110 Ms. Ana

The quote can only be considered ``apt`` if it is meant to draw attention to the irony of that statement when compared with the prevailing sad reality narrated in Ms. Aisha`s own animated style.

Thank you.

I think the Jinnah quote is rather apt here personally. I don`t get why people are asking what it has to do with the rest of the article. The quote by our Quaid regarding women in Pakistan is a progressive one when you look at it. (I am not going for any arguments regarding Jinnah here) The attitude of these men, as well as the ones where Aisha works on the other hand, is far from it. And it is sad the way this is minimized by some, because it is minimizing attitudes that give way to idiots running after women khhule `aam maiN, and attacking them. This unfortunately has been a distasteful part of life in Lahore (and throughout Pakistan) for far too long.

it`sme420

Look at yourself first why did that boy misbehave with you and why did he not do this thing with anyother girl?

You`re mom wasn`t in town you fucking git. Is that clear now? Get back to your wifebeating now...

`#106 by itsme5588 on June 3, 2007 10:06pm PT
In this context, I give you an example of one person that he used to write articles and her wife used to give positive comments by different names against her articles even used to fight with the others like you. I am sure you got my point. You are favouring her and giving hot remarks, may be you are the same. `

dude,....get ur head examined. thats all.

What can one say to people like itsme5588... apparently now how Pakistani working women dress (loose shalwar kameez with dopatta) is ``obscene``. The answer according to these fools is for women to sit at home...

Maybe he should try sending his burqah clad sisters and mothers... and see if they don`t get harrassed... these people have no shame.

Ref 104 & 105:

Thanks for your comments as these reflect someone`s personality. In this context, I give you an example of one person that he used to write articles and her wife used to give positive comments by different names against her articles even used to fight with the others like you. I am sure you got my point. You are favouring her and giving hot remarks, may be you are the same.

Anyhow, keep commenting but should be positive.

`#103 by itsme5588 on June 3, 2007 2:58am PT
I have a suggestion for you that you cant change all boys but yourself. Look at yourself first why did that boy misbehave with you and why did he not do this thing with anyother girl? It means, there is some mistake at your end, you need to improve yourself. If you cant do this, you dont have a right to publish this long article. `

while i am no admirer of aisha or any of her works, but that does not mean that anyone has the right to take liberties with her.

what you wrote above shows that you are a typical MCB most commonly found in india and pakistan.

Aisha your statement is misleading me on some points. This is possible that some bad guys tease some girls but keep in mind that a boy cant dare to touch/tease the girl unless she gives her an opportunity. This opportunity may be in the sense of obscene dressing, looking continuously at boys means to invite the boys in any sense etc. These are some examples due to which a boy is encouraged to misbehave the girl. I dont know who are you, hows your dressing, hows your attitude etc. but you can avoid such types of difficulties if you change yourself first.

I have a suggestion for you that you cant change all boys but yourself. Look at yourself first why did that boy misbehave with you and why did he not do this thing with anyother girl? It means, there is some mistake at your end, you need to improve yourself. If you cant do this, you dont have a right to publish this long article.

I am just beleiving on the fact which you have mentioned, may be you have hidden some realities. I mean this is one aspect of your picture. Anyway try to change yourself, I am sure you will not face this thing again.

Imran
Khi

Re: # 103
People like you should be castrated

Aisha - Thank you for sharing your experience. I believe that there is no right or wrong how a woman responds to these types of incidents. And only the person IN THE situation is the best judge of the kind of response she needs to give. One person may like to take the hooligans to task. The other person may completely ignore the nasty fellows. None of the readers can provide any suggestion in that regard.

On a different note: I am a little unclear on the following:

[The Colonel said that it is hard for these guys to differentiate between the “type” of women they see. Some women hold men’s hand in the parking lot. What he meant to say was, this was a simple case of miscalculation. ]

Was this Colonel in his senses when he uttered the above? This sounds real silly.

Burpinder,

It is Pakistan`s Islamised form of cultural lag called Caste system... and the Syeds are like the top Brahmins...

``You are in Pakistan, I am in US, and so you dont have any advantage of ``daring proximity`` to carry out your revenge against me.``

Malik99, the self styled anti-imperialist, is hiding in the comforts of the US and citing it as a wall against revenge from the ``slave of the west``. Rest assure, I am not the kind of person who riles up mobs... but apparently whoever you meet in Pakistan, when you visit, you make a point to declare that you intend to bash my head against pavement... (because you don`t agree with what I have to write!) ..

Next time just contact me (yasser.hamdani@gmail.com) because I`d like to see how you do that.

Re: # 97

Manto - That was sweet :)

Re: # 98

zahra,

That is like the 10th time you have used the word `sweet` when it is not warranted lately! Are you looking for a shohar by showcasing your `non-sultaan-raahi` side?

kaka is impressed already.. May you be blessed with a shohar!

#93 Samankhan

[BJ 007]

No ma`m!

Ham ek, hamarey gyarah!

Buss! :)

[What is sadder is that the security guard got riled up only because he assumed that Aisha was a syed...]- #87

manto...
do the syeds have a horn on their heads or noor coming out of their ears that even jahil security guards can differentiate a syed from a bhangi...please explain...

Re: # 95

Can somebody please tell me what the fuck a Syed is?

manto # 87 ``So your pathetic little attempt to use this to attack me as usual is unnecessary and wrong``

Dear Manto, I was merely making a point, not attacking you! Now please dont use this as an excuse to stir up a chowk mob against me. You are in Pakistan, I am in US, and so you dont have any advantage of ``daring proximity`` to carry out your revenge against me.

#92
Whats this?! Do ankhein, barah haath?!

LOL!!


What next?
BJ 007??!!

#88 Samankhan

Yes, ma`m! The list of the even dozen is:

BeeJay=bjkumar=Stan=Beej=CD_Lion=Delta_High=Beej.=BJK=bjkumar.=bj2=BJ003=BJ004

Most of the nicks besides ``bjkumar`` are currently banned.

Sincerely,
BJ Kumar

#82 bjkumar

I must say your post has some how stirred me - though busy preparing news abstracts for the day my mind is wandering in search of topics to write about!
Thank you for the appreciation and encouragement.

A little confusion here:
I`ve been away from Chowk for quite a long time now and I am wondering if you are THE BEEJAY?!

Regards,
Saman Khan

Malik99,

I think the Jinnah quote was an apt juxtaposition to the Col`s quote. So your pathetic little attempt to use this to attack me as usual is unnecessary and wrong. I suggest that you kindly take off the blinkers that you wear and look at stuff on its merit.

The issues highlighted here are manifold and disturbing and only one of them has anything to do with harrassment the author felt:

1. The frustrations of a society deprived of entertainment which forces men to resort to such behavior.. and it is not simple eve-teasing when two men feel confident enough to physically threaten a woman walking alone in a parking lot/basement. It really has little to with anything but a power trip that these men would have felt.

2. On another website, this article got comments like ``What were you wearing?`` Let us put aside the fact that there is nothing provocative about a loose shalwar kameez and a dopatta which is what most Pakistani working women, including Aisha, wear... is there any justification for men to feel empowered enough to go up to and physically threaten a woman even if she was something provocative?

3. Security Guards are not a mob. What is sadder is that the security guard got riled up only because he assumed that Aisha was a syed... this is absolutely the bottomless pit of a sick society based on caste and false honor.

4. And the worst part in the whole thing was this:

The Colonel said that it is hard for these guys to differentiate between the “type” of women they see. Some women hold men’s hand in the parking lot. What he meant to say was, this was a simple case of miscalculation. You lady, are a married woman, with kids, I know your boss, your husband and so via the men associated with you, you deserve respect and I’ll punish these men accordingly.


BJKumar`s 23 does capture this in a unique dialogue ... but it has also trivialised these very serious issues.

#84 by burpinder on May 30, 2007 8:27pm PT

gandhi boinking his neices is almost like mo boinking his child bride...

so gandhi is almost like mo...

This story is wrong at so many levels:
- Invoking the Qaid`s name in vain (isn`t that blasphemy or sumfn?)
- Quoting Gandhi`s sexual peccadilloes in a blatant attempt to tittilate/ provoke
- Good cop-worse cop game played by the Hamdanis (or is it the Hamdani-Sarwaris?)
- Unfairly appealing to chowkie ladeez latent feminism

In fact the only good thing about this is the fact that it inspired BJ to come up with #23.

Anyway am done here.

A story that starts with a quote from Jinnah should at least live upto certain expectations. Once I got over the hurdle of understanding what actually transpired, I found myself feeling bad for the guy who got badly beaten by the colonel, especially since I could not make out the severity of his crime. Beating of a human being by stirring up a mob is a serious thing and I am sure author would not have undertaken this step had she been living in US. This mob justice is prevalent in Pakistan, as evidenced by May 12 events in Karachi, and unfortunately even educated folks like author are not immune from that.

So in the end we have a guy with possibly broken bones for a crime that did not seem to endanger author at anytime. Eve teasing in public places around the world a is a nuisance at best, and very rarely a personal threat. If this can lead someone to stir a mob, then what to say about more serious issues!

On a side note - it is quite clear that author is trying hard to match her husband`s love for Jinnah and hatred for Gandhi by out-doing him in quoting Jinnah and bashing Gandhi. But it appears to be as unnatural and as misplaced as the quote in the beginning of the story. For a successful marital relationship, it is not necessary that husband and wife must be of the same strong opinions on same topics. In fact wife could have a passion for painting and husband could have a passion for, say, Jinnah and they could still live a blissful life.

No one can now reverse freedom of press, says Najam Sethi

By Khalid Hasan

WASHINGTON: Najam Sethi, editor of Daily Times, told a meeting here on Tuesday that no government will be able to take away the freedom that the media has won for itself in Pakistan through its long struggle.

He was speaking at a meeting organised by the Heritage Foundation to discuss the current judicial and political crisis in Pakistan. Shuja Nawaz, author of ‘Crossed Swords,’ a book on the Pakistan Army, and Hassan Abbas, a Boston-based Pakistani academic and author, also addressed the meeting.

Sethi provided the audience that included several South Asia experts with a detailed account of how the crisis had developed and why it was necessary to resolve it sooner rather than later so that the situation does not turn into one of chaos. He said the MQM, which had received a “green light” from the president to block the chief justice from addressing the Karachi bar, is the biggest loser today, especially in the Punjab where it was trying to set itself up. It is clear by now that the president, despite being advised by some to withdraw the reference made to the Supreme Judicial Council (SJC), is not going to do so. Benazir Bhutto is not going to return as she is scared of what the court cases against her might produce. She also has fears about her physical safety. Nawaz Sharif is primarily interested in Gen Pervez Musharraf’s removal from the scene. He said if the chief justice is restored, it will not suit the government, and if he is not restored, the crisis will be prolonged. However, if Gen Musharraf makes a deal with the PPP, it can work. There is still time, although it is running out fast. The window of opportunity is going to close before long. If Gen Musharraf decides to impose martial law, as he has once indicated by referring to “extra-constitutional” steps, it will result in “political anarchy”.

Sethi felt that an arrangement between the civilian politicians and Gen Musharraf is necessary to restore order. He said the war on terror cannot be carried on by a fully democratic government, nor will it be possible to proceed with the peace process with India, as an alienated army will see to it that both are blocked. Similarly, the progress made on women’s rights and other civil society initiatives by the Musharraf regime will be put on hold if not reversed. A fully democratic government will be susceptible to the influence of conservative clerics and right-wing elements. There will be pressure on the government for further “Islamisation”. He warned that if Gen Musharraf is ousted, there will emerge 20 centres of power, all clamouring for a piece of the pie. He said Gen Musharraf should see the wisdom and advisability of playing a “transitional” role in bringing about an understanding between the civil and military establishments.

Lisa Curtis, head of the South Asia programme at the Heritage Centre, who moderated the discussion, said that the United States should encourage Gen Musharraf to bring in a secular, democratic order in Pakistan. She felt that if Gen Musharraf continues to act in an autocratic way, it will be bad for the US, no less than for Pakistan.

#35 Samankhan

My dear, while you are here, let me interject! I encourage you to write more often - you REALLY need to!

Your ``Advantage, Men`` and ``So Long Farewell`` - the two that I have read - were my absolute favorites!

In school it was the usual my daddy`s bigger then your daddy, here in Chowk it`s upgraded to my country is then your country,my religion is better then your religion etc etc! Can`t we grow up and have decent,healthy discussions!

Oh my! These interacts are resembling petty playground squabbles.

#78 by Zeena on May 30, 2007 1:30pm PT
arjun2
joo are berry berry phoor, and hangry, phleezzz, gooo eattttt, some heenggg daalllll with Indian currryyyyyy...clean youuuu ishtodiooooapanetmeent , too much shmeel ijj making yooooooo retard...........LOL


Xena Dahling,

Are u alright??

arjun2
joo are berry berry phoor, and hangry, phleezzz, gooo eattttt, some heenggg daalllll with Indian currryyyyyy...clean youuuu ishtodiooooapanetmeent , too much shmeel ijj making yooooooo retard...........LOL

#75 arjun2
You completely lost your mind....LOL

Go, take a brak from this ranting and raving againts Pakistanis 24/7 on chowk.....refresh yourself with some good Indian food....like musala doosua from Bombay chaattyy house in edison......

and then come back with more cut and paste against pakistanis at least for the next 48 hours non stop........hahahah

retard.....trying to be gora with Indian skin....

Aisha Jee:
You were brave in dealing with this man. I commend you.
However, did you not take law in your hand by asking that chokwidar to beat that person. He also has rights for proper hearing in the courthouse. Remember that he is innocent till proven guilty by the court.

#74 by Zeena on May 30, 2007 12:17pm PT


retard: why do you need english genes to speak(or write) half-decent english...assuming you`re not descended from goats, which one of your parents gave you - or should I say rent you - the genes that give you the ability to wear western clothes??

#70 by arjun2
[[you could be subject of whole book]]

Wow!!!

So, you pay your complete attention to me 24/7 and have started writing whole book on me.....
Thanks

BTW, you did not answer my question...Who is gora among your mom and dad? From where did you hire your English genes?

Queenie,

>>Alright if you must show off your social position try doing in a soceity..<<<

If u dont know she runs/edits a e-magazine by name www.naseeb.com

For them (Pakistanis), leaving the country and going abroad is naseeb.

#18 by chaltahai on May 29, 2007 5:18pm PT
is ass-whopping a euphemism for dancing peshawar style or does the author mean ``ass-whupping``?


Actually both of you are wrong. It`s ass whooping, not whopping or whupping.

what the heck has gandhi and jinnah got to do with line maroaing women?

Take it in your stride and get on with life. Alright if you must show off your social position try doing in a soceity where feudalism is not fashionable. In pakistan you took the law into your hands.

If this the way educated folk behave, taking the law into their own hands, why the heck do you complain when you get shot by the nafia and the army. Show your strenght and hit back. What a spineless act and so very unlawful.

And you want sympathies! Alright you got it, pity in bucketfuls for the foolish manner in which the law was made an ass.

#61 by Zeena on May 30, 2007 6:37am PT


Am I the topic of this article?or, my bad English is the topic of this article?


You could be the subject of a whole book: The downside of inbreeding.

So someone made a pass at Aisha..and that resulted in Jinnah and gandhi rantings in her article and subsequently. There seems to be something deeply sexually pathological in this.

[[[double standards...?

Started by khamy1 on May 30, 2007 5:10am PT

...it`s funny to see chowk publishing the aisha sarwari`s article depicting the everyday harassment of a female in pakistan while women are insulted,abused and called dirtiest names on a daily basis on chowk... [[[champions of chowk in the art of hurting, insulting and abusing females are]]]:... zeemax, the defender of the faith and salim chauhan, the chameleon who is really a chooha...what do you think about such double standards ]]]]

khamy sahib

This is your thread on un plugged .....
Exactly, why do you have double standards for yourself?
Why do you have a selective morality?

Yes, it is really funny that you pick on others,but, forget about your own abusive gaalis...
Yes, indeed.....you`re champion in this ART of hurting,insulting and abusing females (stranger females on internet who disagree with you)..........

What do you think about your own double standards? or you are unable to think at all.......

PS:- Excellent points raised by you,BUT, ONLY if you practice what you preach..........nothing more to say....

Regards

this picture is better

this is what happening if not prpoperly musalnaam. Mrs Hamdani, you need to be sure you create good musalmaan country in pakistan. join the ladies in islamabad and protest. we musalmaans from hunoodstan shouting.

nothing can change unless deep deep culture is unrooted.gandhi was a philanderrer and eve teaser. tell what was he, teasing eves or being teased by woman

#63 yep! it was started off in #6, and taken up later on....I am sure a few more of this and you are guaranteed 1000! What was Manto`s record?

khamy sahib
Have you ever thought about your own family females being harrassed by men? the way you harrassed stranger females on chowk 24/7?

But, I guess your family females are used to of being harrassed by you...so, they don`t know the difference, poor ladies.

If, an abuser and harrasser like you can abuse stranger ladies on chowk or on other web sites like desibukbuk.com, I am sure you must be abusing your family @ home.......

But, again, I don`t know , if, you consider your family females as females or males......

aisha sarwari...
... i guarantee 500 interacts to your article...you can thank me later...;)

#60 by khamy1 on May 30, 2007 6:34am PT
[but, in USA I have never ever experienced any kind of public harrasment myself and I have been living in USA since I was in my teens.] #51

...this happens to women only... ;) ]]

khamy sahib

So, I am not woman....exaclty..this is called cyber harrasement...
Thank you, you gave me a proof. My case is closed.

How about your mother?Is she a woman or man?

And still you and your shamelessness...

[[#50 by arjun2 on May 30, 2007 6:06am PT
Zeena: Mrs Manto should thank you...your rants in your really really bad English makes her column look like it was written by a professor of English...]]]

arjun

Am I the topic of this article?or, my bad English is the topic of this article?
Decide...

Why don`t you write something in your excellent English on front page?and then we will appreciate your English language skills per se.....

You are here on chowk 24/7 with cut and paste and with your vilest abuse against Pakistanis.....

I know you are English Gora(white man from India) with English genes flushing all around your body morphology...........
Tell me who was gora in your family?Your mom or your dad?

I am not gora sahib, and that`s the reason my English language is poor.

[but, in USA I have never ever experienced any kind of public harrasment myself and I have been living in USA since I was in my teens.] #51

...this happens to women only... ;)

zeena devi...various.

arz kiya hai...:

voh baat saray fasaney mein jis ka zikr na tha
voh baat un ko bahut na-gwaar guzri hai

#52 by Folio on May 30, 2007 6:07am PT
Aisha,

U are a woman of guile. I dont know if u got this from ur husband or was it inherited from ur parents.

This site shud promote amity btw India and Pakistan, not HATE.

Alephnull, where the depth (ala #13).......you are becoming finite and countable friend - cannot happen to cantors. Or are you just an imposter?

#32 by Mantolives on May 30, 2007 2:25am PT



I am reasonably sure that self styled English professors from India like Alephnull can probably not utter a single sentence in the English language without making an utter fool of themselves


Wow...so many grammatical errors in what, I`m sure, was meant to be the perfect retort...

Ivy league standards ain`t what they used to be...

sad. sad that you have men who cannot behave. sad that people have to go through this ordeal. Maybe next time you will be chaparoned (sp???????) by your husband (the guy who is cooking - thanks BJ #23) 8-() (hey just kidding)

But as shandana says in #40 happens everywhere - but conetxt and nature is different.

If we removed the notion of ``segretation of sexes `` from our minds how different would our reaction be to the same. Would we react any differently to the guard who asked for ``key, wallet, and phone number``? Or is it that somehow, we feel that the people of our skin colour should know their place just we know our place when the same is done in the west? Who knows? It would be an interesting angle ...

nevertheless sympathies are due to you...and a very good stand you ahev taken. A blow on womens behalf....next time shoot the guy in his goolies......

#44 by ally on May 30, 2007 5:46am PT


auntyji kicked up a fuss `tere kaar ma pehn nai eh?


The retort to that would be: hai to, par itni sexy nahi...

Aisha,

U are a woman of guile. I dont if u got this from ur husband or was it inherited from ur parents.

This site shud promote amity btw India and Paistan, not HATE.

Re:#40 by Shandana
[[does this only happen in pakistan? in america last month a man came up to me on the street and said `shall i compare thee to a summers day?`. at a security checkpoint a guard held out his tray and said `belt, keys, phone number`.]]

No it can happen anywhere in the world....but, in USA I have never ever
experienced any kind of public harrasment myself and I have been living in USA since I was in my teens.

And the main reason is strict law enforcement.....
I have been traveling a lot all by myself......

Zeena: Mrs Manto should thank you...your rants in your really really bad English makes her column look like it was written by a professor of English...

#38 by khamy1
khamy sahib

You also come up with dozens of multiple nicks and then start your 24/7 harrasment for me on un plugged............

And then you have all the nerves to criticise others......

#39 by hamidm2 on May 30, 2007 5:06am PT

[[[[- the boys who go to co-ed schools tend to be more comfortable, polite and `civilized` around women ........ i feel sorry for the
the poor boys who grow up thinking that women are beings from another planet - they tend to behave like uncouth `dangars` .......... ]]]]

hamdim2 sahib
Wawawa....
And what about yourself?

Since I have been posting on chowk front page, you are constantly harrasing me for reasons unknown. What`s the reason of your ,``uncouth online behaviour``?

#41 by aisha_sarwari on May 30, 2007 5:23am PT

Is it something ur prophet whose desires wre absorbed by an under-age tot by name Aisha?

[[38 by khamy1 on May 30, 2007 5:05am PT
...it`s funny to see chowk publishing the said article depicting the everyday harassment of a female in pakistan whie women are insulted, called dirtiest na,es on a daily basis on chowk and no one gives a damn untill the reciver of the sexual insults is chowk`s ex editor who took a longer than expected hiatus for unknown reasons and has not been since...thank god for]]]]

khamkhwa sahib

Look who`s talking?
And what about yourself? How can you criticise others when you are yourself champion and king of harrasment for me and for Farzana Versey?

You are #1 abuser and sucker of this site.

You are always on un plugged to harrass me with your abusive gaalis......

Now go back to un plugged and start same harrassment for me.

Calling me with differnt abusive names, calling Farzana Versey with the highest gaalis possible, here on chowk and then on desibukbuk.com.........that is the way your life revolves.......

Even though I requested you million times politely to stop cyber harrasing me on chowk( unfortunately which you have been doing for the last few years) and will continue to do so........you come up with same shamelessness and do not stop.


So, since you have started this discussion here(Thanks to Aisha`s boldness), why not start from you?

Mr.khamhwa

When will you stop harrasing me?

Aisha,

Anti-women is different from anit-feminism. Gandhi was not anti-women like ur closet mullah & mullis (JH babes).

Aisha

As Shandana said registering a protest is sometimes the best thing to do. My friends big sister was going to Sadiqabad on a bus with her mum when this moron sitting behind them kept trying to touch her through the seat, when she told aunty, auntyji kicked up a fuss `tere kaar ma pehn nai eh?` sort of stuff, everyone else beat the guy up and threw him off the bus...

its amazing how other men beat these guys up when a women raises her voice but dont say anything otherwise... those men should be shamed publicly by the girl and watch how all the other guys beat them up!!!

Re: # 44

True!

Yasser,

>>English professors from India<<

That`s a wrong expression. It should always be `Professor of English from India` because English also connote ethnicity. This is the most common mistake committed even by teachers who teach English in India (No ENGLISH teacher, btw).

We may accpet these phrases under Indianisms.............

Re: # 43

Point taken.

Gandhi in The Handmaid’s Tale
Aisha Sarwari
October 4, 2005


Gandhi’s Anti-Feminist opinions

“My idea is to get these women to spin yarn.” MK Gandhi

I’m glad that no woman leader, at least not of international stature, has awarded their inspiration to M.K Gandhi known to the devout as The Mahatma, for it is because of these saintly Ayatollahs that women are not at the top of world affairs.

Saintly men are the most irresponsible of talkers, the most skilled illusionists. Even years after his death, Gandhi looms on San Francisco’s pier 42 as a statue of truth, sponsored by Pepsi Co. He is known to the world as a leader of the independence movement of India. He’s known as a frail man who led thousands to fight the British using the original method of non-violence. He’s a great story, but out of all his unpalatable myths I find the one about his “emancipator of women” most offensive.

Gandhi was the embodiment of traditionalism, religion and patriarchy all rolled into one. I say if you want to confine a woman, give her the role of cooking, label it sacred and her indispensable from the skill of its preparation and Viola! - There you have a society where men can reign supreme. This is of course my personal opinion but I am sure no non-chef woman will appreciate that Gandhi describes cooking as an obligation that all women must fulfill. Describing Hindu festivities he says, “The ladies are making preparations for the approaching grand day, by cooking and baking sweets, cakes, etc., for, in India, women of the highest class would not mind cooking. In fact, it is an accomplishment which every lady is supposed to possess.” (1)

Excuse my pettiness. I personally detest cooking as a women-only job. But I also find men referring to their likes and dislikes using women as a standard of honor, in extreme bad taste. An impartial reading of The Collected Works of Mahatma Gandhi has references of women being compared to methods of taxation, to market forces and to political systems.

So ingrained in his mind was the concept of the “fallen woman” as a woman who uses her sexuality by choice, that he talked of the concept with international correspondents during interviews. He says, “The condition of England at present is pitiable. I pray to God that India may never be in that plight. That which you consider to be the Mother of Parliaments is like a sterile woman and a prostitute. Both these are harsh terms, but exactly fit the case.” (2)

Margret Atwood novel, The Handmaids’s Tale, talks of a dystopia in a world without feminism. In it she outlines the most distinguishing feature of a totalitarian patriarchy to be an obsession with a woman’s ovaries to be viable. These societies want babies for the purpose of indoctrination and control. It is perhaps for this reason that Gandhi got a respectable member ousted from the London Vegetarian society, because he was advocating for birth control.

Gandhi continued about the British system of the time: “That Parliament has not yet, of its own accord, done a single good thing. Hence I have compared it to a sterile woman. The natural condition of that Parliament is such that, without outside pressure, it can do nothing. It is like a prostitute because it is under the control of ministers who change from time to time. Today it is under Mr. Asquith, tomorrow it may be under Mr. Balfour.” (3)

The second most defining characteristic from Atwood’s novel was the concept of anarchy resulting from a woman’s choice to select a partner for sex, because it puts pressure on men to compete for women, by bring to par their standards for women, rather than the other way round. Using Islamic Feminist, Fatima Mernessi’s argument- how chauvinists chose to deal with the fear was to debase a prostitute and define her in the most sinful state that the divine’s wrath is on.

Gandhi’s general opinion about women was very low. Not only did he objectify women by using statements that call to “cling to the old Indian civilization even as a child clings to the mother`s breast,” he shed all egalitarianism and insisted that “the care of children and the upkeep of the house is quiet enough to fully engage her energy.” (4)

When speaking of women Gandhi was often patronizing and authoritarian. To Gandhi the “good Indian woman” was epitomized by Sita, Draupadi, and Damyanti.

He’s often quoted saying that women made “too much noise,” that they didn’t observe “purdah,” nor did they know how to assemble near him with propriety. It is “difficult to “interest them in everyday topics,” because of their “extravagant and hypocritical” nature. They always, “gossip and are too found of their jewelry to part with it.” Women, he said don’t have organizational skills and must be “guided” by men. (5)

Another defining symbolism that the people in Atwood’s novel took to was “veiling” and propriety. Talking was prohibited, and possession of personal assets was treated a crime as bad as sedition. Of course in Gilerd, Atwood’s fictional account of the state, men were in charge of women.

However, Gandhi was a clever man, for every crude comment against women, he had 10 that supported women to go out and campaign, suggesting empowerment.

Gandhi prompted women to “defy” their husbands if they have to and step outside the house in the greater national movement, because women had natural “traits” and a “traditional role” which they could use in the great “battle to gain access in the temples of the untouchables whose numbers were needed. (6)

To get to the bottom of it, Gandhi’s double standard in the case of his wife’s political activism against the Marriage Act of 1913 in South Africa is telling.

After calling women to disobey for the cause, Gandhi was later apprehensive. When Kasturba, his wife led women against the Act, he said he “lacked confidence” in her abilities. He clarified, “If at the last moment they flinched, their prominence might seriously damage the cause they sought to advance. (7)

It was finally decided to let the “ladies” proceed with their plan but under no circumstance were they to divulge their names until they were “safely” in jail. Thus their men could be “saved from embarrassment if the women failed.” (8)

After they returned from jail, Gandhi urged them to be the same “patient and dutiful women that India has produced for centuries.” (9)

The Handmaid’s Tale, the centeral character, Offerd, was expected to be “patient and dutiful” moreover, she was forbidden to work/slave outside her household, though it may have been perfectly ok for her to do so inside. Similarly, Gandhi’s ideal society was unlike the European society, which he called an irreligious society:

“This civilization is irreligion, and it has taken such a hold on the people in Europe who are in it appear to be half mad. They lack real physical strength or courage. They keep up their energy by intoxication. They can hardly be happy in solitude. Women, who should be the queens of households, wander in the streets or they slave away in factories. For the sake of a pittance, half a million women in England alone are labouring under in factories or similar institutions. This awful fact is one of the causes of the daily growing suffragette movement.”

This statement also shows a clear lack of comprehension of the processes that a society must follow to develop and allocate resources equitably.

Some may argue that Gandhi’s personal character should be reviewed rather than his flawed statements. Fair enough: Shall we move on to how he treated his wife?

First of all, he didn’t think he needed her input on his vow of celibacy or the decision to have no more children. Certainly, even women from that era would not settle for an agreement so skewed in power. “It became my conviction that procreation and the consequent care of children were inconsistent with public service.” (10)

He had a lifelong conviction that most religious clergy have. That women were sexual beings, that they tempted, that men lusted when they saw them and that they were an indulging temptation that were diametrically opposed to a God that demanded suffering and extreme self-control.

“To be fair to my wife, I must say that she was never the temptress. It was therefore the easiest thing for me to take the vow of brahmacharya , if only I willed it.” (11)

It surprises me to no end, that MK. Gandhi is praised for spirituality but he never understood its basic fact that, the soul is developed only though interaction with the material, and not in isolation of it.

“The other thing which is equally harmful is sexual vice. Both are poison. A snake-bite is a lesser poison than these two, because the former merely destroys the body but the latter destroy body, mind and soul.” (12)

Gandhi was a carnal being, who instead of committing to self-improvement, decided to Band Aid his jealous boyfriend issues though religion, and also gaining some international fame as a result. He’s probably the only global figure who commands awe and respect dispite doing his own plumbing and not having sex for ages.

“I had absolutely no reason to suspect my wife`s fidelity, but jealousy does not wait for reasons. I must needs be for ever on the look-out regarding her movements, and therefore she could not go anywhere without my permission. I wanted to make my wife an ideal wife. My ambition was to make her live a pure life.” (13)

The idea of women’s independence was not acceptable to Gandhi, says also Anup Taneja who researched the topic, unlike my opinion piece here. The question to ask is if the world can afford to accept an icon who rejected half of humanity’s values, and was willing to lock them up in the four walls of “evil traditions.”

i was walking behind a middle aged man and his son in a park in karachi the other day. the kid must have been about eight or nine, and they were discussing the physical merits and demerits of the women who passed them. the kid would make a comment, the father would praise him if he thought it was graphic enough or gently correct him and add to it if he felt it was weak. they were walking quite slowly, but since my ears were already burning and their idiocy was doing for my heartrate what jogging only aspires to do, i adjusted my pace and stayed behind them till they left.

does this only happen in pakistan? in america last month a man came up to me on the street and said `shall i compare thee to a summers day?`. at a security checkpoint a guard held out his tray and said `belt, keys, phone number`.

over the years i have learnt that the best way to avoid men practising their lines on you is to look really pissed off, like super `i`m going to chop off your testicles and make kapuras` pissed off. the only completely effective way to avoid men practising their lines on you is to die.

i am working on a slightly less permanent alternative.

people who are attacking the author about typos and grammar...why? there have been lots of other articles on fp with poor editing, why no super focus on those?

aisha,

........ the first thing that strikes you when you land in pakistan is the relative absence of women in public and the unblinking stares of men focussed on the few brave souls who dare to venture out ........... as somone said earlier, this sexual frustration is the result of the segregation of sexes at a very young age ........ i have noticed a marked difference in attitude between my nephews who go to co-ed schools and those who go to all boys schools - the boys who go to co-ed schools tend to be more comfortable, polite and `civilized` around women ........ i feel sorry for the poor boys who grow up thinking that women are beings from another planet - they tend to behave like uncouth `dangars` ..........

....... next time use mace instead of relying on the guards ........

...it`s funny to see chowk publishing the said article depicting the everyday harassment of a female in pakistan whie women are insulted, called dirtiest na,es on a daily basis on chowk and no one gives a damn untill the reciver of the sexual insults is chowk`s ex editor who took a longer than expected hiatus for unknown reasons and has not been since...thank god for small mercies...the champions of chowk in the art of hurting, insulting and abusing females are: drum roll please... zeemax, the defender of the faith and salim chauhan, the chameleon...but chowk thinks it`s kosher then it must be...

http://blanknoiseproject.blogspot.com/
This is an org in India dedicated to empowering women and educating men about eve teasing.
It has done good work in recent years.
As Shandana has said, raising a voice through all means possible is a part of the solution.
Aisha, if you dont mind, do submit your writeup to the Blank Noise Project as well.
Thanks.

#23 bjkumar

OUCH! OUCH! OUCH!

Indeed!!

Its a nice article highlighting as to what actually we as a women living in society like ours have to face.

But the thing is what is the solution to this problem??

Is there any solution at all???

revolutionization of the patriarchal mindset is the only way out, i guess.

Yaraan, I was not trying to distract from the seriousness of the issue at hand, just thought a bit of humor will do us good - at Yasser`s expense, too (hey, what are the ``worse half``s for?!)

Dear HP,

I am reasonably sure that self styled English professors from India like Alephnull can probably not utter a single sentence in the English language without making an utter fool of themselves (and when they do survive that it is usually because the accent is so utterly incomprehensible to the other person) ... hence the anal retentiveness when it comes to grammar... it is a deep-rooted colonial complex really or maybe something even deeper, a sense of insecurity because this fellow often boasts about ``backpacking through Europe``. The primary purpose of language is communication and as far as communication goes the article has made its points well.

On another thought, there may be a case for Alephnull to go and correct the homies when they say ``it don`t`` instead of ``it doesn`t``... but there I suspect, A`null has complexes of another kind.

Dear Aisha Sarwari

Excellent! article so far on front page....
Bravo!
I must admit you took a really bold and first step to a very important issue for Pakistani women......
Aisha sista
The step that you have taken to expose the harassment of Pakistani women on the streets is the big step to end this harassment for women folks....you deserve a great appreciation for NOT putting up with this d for speaking up for your right to take you as an equal Pakistani citizen, not just a weak woman....

Yes, sadly, Pakistani women have to face such kind of harassment in their daily lives and they are expected to put up with such harassment wit dignity...and people have accepted such harassment the part and parcel of their society.....they have accepted as such abuse and harassment as the norm of society......that`s so unfortunate.

I must admit, I have always faced such situations in Pakistan, but, in USA have never experienced such harassment....In Pakistan, I can`t even think about going out in public alone without anyone.....
On the contrary, in USA I always travel alone.....never faced anything like that......and sad thing is , it is Pakistan where they remind and preach women to be subdued and submissive, in USA nobody tells women to be submissive or subdued, they do what they want to do without any danger of being harassed.......

You know why?B/c of strict law enforcement policies....

When I am in Pakistan, I always tell others,``Please, don`t remind me who I am , where I can go and where I can`t, what I can wear and what I can`t, stop patronizing my life with your unnecessary reminder for me , how to carry myself,how to stand,how to talk, how to look in my own homeland? without feeling at home.....
I do not tell these Pakistani men to respect me as their own family females,but, to take me as an equal human being and as an equal Pakistani citizen who can roam in the bazaars just like Pakistani men without any threatening environment and why not? Every Pakistani lady is as much a Pakistani citizen as any gentleman is? And My question to these Pakistani men is, `` listen, we Pakistani ladies just wish to roam around without the four walls of our homes just to feel free,that doesn`t mean we wish to be seen or we wish to be visible for men.....Just think about it.

The same society takes these men breaking every kinds of norms as norms,but, when any woman even tries to hang out in the streets of Pakistan, the same woman is considered ,``rebellious, Bit*h``etc, etc....

Pakistani society`s perspective needs to be educated about taking women as some objects of desire....they should be treated with dignity and respect, not like puppets.....

Let me tell you about my own experiences in Pakistan, I have had been harassed there no matter which dresses I wear.....whether I wear Jeans,shalwar kameez, chaddar, dupatta......I felt the same threatening environment for women out there on the streets......

Trust me, one day I even tried to wear burqa,but, I felt the samething......So, my whole point is, it has got nothing to do with dresses..........Whole society`s concept about taking women as objects need to be changed......and also strict law enforcements needs to be implemented.....

And that`s the reality and cruel reality.....

Pakistanis need to be mentally educated regarding this sad situation....

Stop street violence against Pakistani women....

Aisha, Here is a quote from Angelika Schaser`s study of the patriotic German women`s movement in the `Second Reich`.

Male-only nation

Practically every new nation that was founded denied women citizenship rights, specifically the suffrage that was allotted to males, always with an apparatus of gendered `role` allotments. I take most of my examples here from the Kaiserreich (Germany 1871-1918), because that`s what I`m studying - but also because it is a fascinating example in itself.

In Imperial Germany, as Schaser puts it, ``the nation-state was composed of male individuals``. Only men had the right to vote and bear arms, men were in executive control of the family, men had superior education. Women belonged to the world principally through the family, while men accessed the world through a variety of vital channels. The ‘natural’ boundaries for women were drawn around the three ‘K’s – Kinder, Kuche, Kirche (children, kitchen and church). Under the Civil Legal Code (initially elaborated in the 1870s, but finally made law in 1896), married women had no say in child’s education, and all property or money in marriage became the husband’s responsibility.

The code states: ``the husband takes the decisions in all matters affecting married life``. The practice of abortion carried a 5 year sentence, and woman suspected of prostitution had to undergo examination by the ‘Morals Police’ (Sittenpolizei), while male clients faced no such humiliation. The state placed the full responsibility of the consequences of sexual interaction on women, while apportioning the full ownership of its benefits to men. Aside from that, the prohibition on abortion can be seen as an effort to exert strict control over the reproduction of society. This, of course, is not unknown: in the Soviet Union, which was the first country to legalize abortion in 1920, abortion was outlawed again in 1936, at the height of the mass deaths from famine and repression, and only legalised again in 1955. ``

In Israel, as Yural-Davis - herself an Israeli dissident - points out, abortion rights are severely restricted and rather controversial with the right-wing, in part because of the `racial` or - to put it more euphemistically - `demographic` struggle with Palestine.

She also recalls that females who chose sterility were upbraided by for inviting ``national death`` and ``race suicide`` by one Theodore Roosevelt (this at a time when the United States government was practicing a crude form of eugenics). `Race`, of course, with its trope of extended family, of blood-lines and originary human communities, of purity and decadence, is the sina qua none of a highly gendered nationalism.”


As we clearly see that the problems that women in our part of the world face are not so uncommon. The liberal West was not any different just 100 years ago. If you allow me to add, women still get teased in the west. The difference is that now they don’t have to call the cops for help but they can, if they so desire, respond back as aggressively as they can.

I think this an important subject and despite some moron picking on the grammar here, the importance of your point is not diminished in any way.

Let me ask you a question: With the way the society is in Pakistan and elsewhere where women are easy picking, you may have encountered this male behavior on many occasions, can you consistently sustained the approach you took in this particular incident?

A woman writes an article on the indecent behaviour she had to face from men.

All that the men who managed to read it could make out were grammatical errors and typos.

But I don`t blame them.

That`s them. Men. Or rather, desi- men.

And thats exactly how far they can go.

Wonder when we will have more of women security guards.

And when desi-women will learn to tease back.

Cant help remembering the instances when I have seen gora men hold back ther sons telling them``let the lady pass``.

Thats culture. A different one.

#13 by ANull

The “unholyshitonthefaceandinthemouth” a-hole is back as grammar Nazi now. This ahole couple of years ago was a self styled intellectual. It did not take long to take the juice out of that balloon. Heheheheh…..

There was a time when this ahole was at least attempting to impress some turds, now he is down to finding grammatical errors.

“unholyshitonthefaceandinthemouth” a-hole, how about you write something here for us to judge how you present your ideas w/o any grammatical errors? Why pick on others, why not show your mettle right here?

Suggested topic: Dhoti and its benefits in rural Kerala. Heheheh….

So let me get this straight...somebody ``greeted you with strange familiarity and boldness``...why be coy? What exactly did he say?

``I asked for a clarification from him, and he went on to make generally trivial chit-chat about his friend giving me a call later.``

Errrr.....he asked out on a date (on behalf of his friend)? THAT`S what got you in such a tizzy?

And pardon me if I read it wrong, but your Bond-girl antics resulted in the wrong person (the guy who`s part in the ``crime`` was restricted to ``laughing about it and didn’t tell his friend to take a break``) being ass-whopped, whatever that is, and subjected to ``kicking, shoving and slaps`` while his friend, the one you had the problem with, was blissfully unaware of all this.

It seems to me that at the end of it all, YOU were the one who came out the better for it- not only did you get your apology (proxy hee sahee) but you had the entire might of the parking lot security force standing behind you in your quest for justice. Though- pardon this simple soul- the alleged crime is still not clear in my feeble mind.

Next time you attempt to appeal to chowk`s righteous indignation and garner a few smpathy votes for yourself, can you please ease off on the Jinnah quotes, the pop psychology/social commentary (``chauvinists thrive on women’s passivity`` and my favourite, ``mother-whore dichotomy``), the attempts at humour, etc? Just tell the story in all its detail and allow us to make up our own minds about how badly you were treated.

And yes, those fat books you see with ``Oxford``, ``Webster`` etc. written across them in the bookstore/ Those are called DICTIONARIES. Get one, willya.