Just a Woman

Women secretly run this country Gandhi ji disclosed

to colonising mt. Batten Also

I let the guys flea,
So due to cleaver James Bond action the men caught one of the guys
your husband and so via the men associated with you,
cleaning and the menial tasks the surround child rearing,


...it also means that if you know the owners of chowk, they will publish such trash under the garb of sociological context...;)

Aisha, sorry about your ordeal! Being treated lousy because of one’s physical appearance or physical characteristics is a terrible thing and unfortunately happens too often all over the world, including in the subcontinent. In that respect, I see not much difference on either side of the border. Life is not idyllic – one takes small steps at a time and tries to continue to make a difference over the long run! A people do not change their nature overnight. But it is important not to compromise on the method – therefore, it may have been counterproductive to use the tools of mob-hysteria (which is at the root of many problems) even though it was for a goal that appeared highly important at the time because of the personal nature of the affront. But oh well, life goes on! :)

PS: I hope you go buy a new purse! :)

i salute you aisha! sometimes registering our protest has to be enough because there really isn`t much else we can do about it.

Shame on Pakistani Men.
What a terrible thing to do to a woman like yourself. If this would have happened in Punjab there would have been upheavel.
Why do you have to bring jinnah into this?

In a time like this..one must ask..``what would Gandhiji do?``...think about it aisha..think hard and long about Gandhiji

#2 by khamy1 on May 29, 2007 10:22am PT

stop questioning the value of a san jose state education..

Despite the spelling mistakes, this was a nice essay. Good for you, for taking a stand. Eve teasing exists everywhere, in some form or another. In new york, I once witnessed a desi hot dog stand vendor teasing a white woman walking by. The funny thing is, she smiled and teased him back while going along her way. The guy stood there speechless. Guess he didn`t see that one coming.

If I ever have a daughter, I`m planning to enroll her in self-defense classes as well as how to use a firearm.

I`ve said before slapping is useless, kick the mothafucka in the balls as hard as you can, do your part in making sure the sob never procreates.

That`s a nice article. Agree with Che. I`ve a toddler and she is already doing karate class.

She thinks she is joan of arc and shakespeare rolled in one.

segregation/purdah leads to all kinds of deviant and perverse behaviors: this misbehavior of women is one.

desis can`t beat europeans-so they pick on women to feel better.

usually these eunuchs work in bunch; at least in india, they get thrashed.

it should read misbehavior TOWARDS women

Ms. Sarwari,

I’m sorry to read that you were harassed by two louts. Good for you that you raised a stink.

However, I note that your article contains the following phrases:

“monologue on the tirade of woman’s mobility”
“who appeared to have camaraderie with each other”
“daring proximity”
“he grabbed the lad with his neck”
“he broke into a fit of ass-whopping of the lad”
“understandably a misjudgment that should not get you in so much trouble for”

in addition to perhaps a score of other grammatical errors and incongruities.

Your habitually turgid, ungrammatical and malapropism-ridden prose will do nothing to advance your cause. In places it comes across as comic, which was surely not your intention here.

It’s a pity that these faults mar your otherwise good article. You have described with sensitivity and insight both the tumult of your own feelings and the way you perceived the attitudes of the other actors in this sorry drama. You clearly had something worth saying; it deserved to be said better.

``Understanding full well that chauvinists thrive on women’s passivity, I learned to give in to my indignity and forgo the fight of telling random men off.``
I did not understand this line.Can you explain please, aisha?

#11kaura

segregation/purdah leads to all kinds of deviant and perverse behaviors: this misbehavior of women is one.

That is like saying joto dosh nando ghosh ...tranlation ALL the faults of the world is due to Ghosh

There is no eveteasing in Saudi Arabia or even in afghanistan

``(He thinks I am Syed), he broke into a fit of ass-whopping of the lad, where he asserted who exactly ``
How one knows without oneself calling one ..is it written on the forhead?

Can some writer here please take this drivel and turn it into something readable?

Vaisey, congratulations to chowk for publishing an 8th grade essay.

is ass-whopping a euphemism for dancing peshawar style or does the author mean ``ass-whupping``?

The problem with a majority of the stories and articles here, is that though the ideas are grand in theory, the implementation suffers. There is no method to the writing - it`s almost as if you`re focusing too much on all that you want to talk about, and less on how you`re saying it. So in effect, you`re not doing enough to reel in the reader`s attention and the mind wanders. At least, mine did.

Also, your tenses varied - stick to either the present or the past - yours were all over the place. And that`s just one of the many, many grammatical errors that plagues this piece.

Hmm...later.

Aisha, did the guy try a “Savile Row-suited gigolo kind of charm” on you?

You are young and attractive, my aunt who is like 80-year old was walking home from Bazaar and guy in his 20s offered to give her a ride (when she told me this, I congratulated her on her good looks)… we, my friend, are a society with pent up sexual frustrations. When there is segregation of sexes at a young and impressionable age, it is no wonder that we produce morons like that guy. There are tons more where he came from.

I don`t know why readers here are judging the piece on the basis of a few grammatical errors...this is a great article. It brings out a woman`s perspective effectively as she denounces the actions of sick, frustrated, insecure men in a closed society like ours.

I like the satirical tone of the piece...the ability to invoke laughter while pointing out serious flaws in a system/culture is an accomplishment not easy to achieve in writing.

A well written piece - an enjoyable thought-provoking read, Aisha. :)

#13 by AlephNull on May 29, 2007 4:23pm PT

oh lay off already...what`s she going to do with good grammar and half-decent composition anyway once the ninja chix take over?

Witness for the Prosecution

“Darling, you are making a racket on that keyboard.”

“Don’t you talk to me! I am so mad I could break it.”

“What happened?”

“I was walking up the stairs from the parking lot, late for my board meeting,…”

“And…”

“I was shoving my car keys in that darn ancient purse – because you were too cheap to buy the nice one we saw at Islamabad Macy’s the other day!”

“I just asked you to wait till Saturday, when it would have gone on sale! So what happened?”

“Well, these two men who appeared to be hugging each other were coming down.”

“And…”

“And the ugly guy with glasses greeted me with strange familiarity and boldness.”

“What EXACTLY did he say?!”

“I can not utter THAT! The kids may overhear us!”

“That bad?!”

“Look, I am used to the whistling, the smirks, the humming of latest Bollywood songs…”

“Of course, you are! I mean of course, you are – tough!”

“…or even a religious proclamation of how great God is! This sort of thing, however has me stop and take notice.”

“Of course!”

“I asked him for clarification, and he went on to make generally trivial chit-chat about his friend giving me a call later.”

“The nerve of the creep! Let me sue him!”

“You think I have the rest of eternity available for court justice? With YOU as my lawyer?!”

“But you can not let this thing just slide! Chauvinists thrive on women’s passivity.”

“Look, I have learned to give in to my indignity and forgo the fight too often. These creeps are too quick and so opportunistic and they hide so well under the folds of a society that is so, so, so…”

“So what?”

“So sickly South Asian!”

“Like us?!”

“Everyday is a battle! This partially segregated society – in which a woman has no identity – either she is a mother or she is a whore!”

“But you always said – it’s nothing! It’s not worth the fight!”

“I did. But the truth is – it’s very bloody and it wounds me each time and it leaves its mark every time it happens!”

“I am sorry!”

“So I fought back. I called for two guards directing traffic. The morons did not budge because they didn’t have orders!”

“Incredible!”

“The guys fled, but I went to give those pedestal guards a piece of my mind.”

“You did?!”

“I hated it! I could hear myself becoming a whiny, powerless, nagging woman. But what else could I do?”

“Not much!”

“I hated it – because I cherish the image of a strong woman and here I was trying to gather men – old men, young men, men with family values, men who believe women need protection and those who just wanted to watch a show from the other side – to catch the “honor-less” folk. As if I were an ablaa naari of Hindustan! A damsel in distress!”

“Did they catch them?”

“Like James Bond! They caught one. I proceeded to talk to him and he became a local Punjabi Sultan Rahi…”

“Meaning…”

“He was almost beating his baboon chest, mouth foaming action and all. He asked me who the hell I was to tell him anything, that I should shut up and know my place.”

“The nerve!”

“I told him to talk in English after he learned the language, and that I was now going to make him regret what he just did.”

“You didn’t slap him, or something!”

“Thanks to his daring proximity the thought did come to mind, but….”

“But…”

“I was scared of him. Scared by his nerve in front of a crowd of armed guards! I didn’t want to test which gender has the greater knack for violence, man or woman.”

“Did anyone help you?”

“Mr. Pathan, the chief security guard. He arrived on the scene with his 3 inch by 6 inch mustache folded towards the edges in a circle loop. He beat the crap out of the guy all the way to the second floor – to the colonel’s office.”

“What did the colonel say?”

“He said it is hard for these guys to differentiate between the “type” of women they see!”

“Why are you looking at me like that?!!”

“It was like he was saying – you, lady, are a married woman, with kids, I know your boss, your husband and so via the men associated with you, you deserve respect and I’ll punish these men accordingly.”

“Forget that – OUCH! So, did he punish him?”

“Already the guy was a lamb, apologizing profusely after he heard the word “jail”. I asked him what he was sorry for, and it was quiet clear he was sorry about landing in the crap that he found himself in, not for the harm caused to me.”

“What did the other men do?”

“Men, after all have to protect other men! They were saying – it was harmless, understandably a misjudgment that should not get him in so much trouble. One can get into trouble for theft, murder and burglary but hey, this was only a woman!”

“They said that?!”

“Not in words – but they said it sure enough! As if it is more natural for a woman to clean shoes than it is for a man! That it is in women’s nature, the cooking, cleaning and the menial tasks of child rearing, the huge ones that need emotional strength of an elephant, business intelligence of a working woman and spiritual stability and nurturing forgiveness! All this time, no one asked us what WE want to do.”

“What did you do?”

“I told him – Colonel Saab, I want him and his friend to know, that sometimes you can pick on the wrong woman, a pissed off one! Can you do that please?”

“What did he say?”

“He placed his cigar on the ashtray and sighed.”

“Darn!”

“It got me SO mad – all I could think of was to get home and start banging this keyboard!”

“Glad it’s the keyboard you hit and not me! But darling, you know life is tough! However, we can handle it!”

“You don’t say! What do you think I was doing if not being tough – going to that office all by myself – while you were too busy defending Pakistan from Indians on that darn web site!”

“Darling, we sometimes have to make sacrifices – the women more than the men! No nation can rise to the height of glory unless the women are side by side with the men.”

“Don’t use those lines on me! I know how to take care of me. Now go cook me some food!”

“Relax darling, it was probably nothing personal! The guy was just a pathan…”

“And…”

“And you are just a woman….OUCH!!”

“Dafa ho jao yahan se, raxas kaminay!”

“Can I at least proof-read your write-up for typos…. OUCH!! OUCH!! OUCH!”

So let me get this straight...somebody ``greeted you with strange familiarity and boldness``...why be coy? What exactly did he say?

``I asked for a clarification from him, and he went on to make generally trivial chit-chat about his friend giving me a call later.``

Errrr.....he asked out on a date (on behalf of his friend)? THAT`S what got you in such a tizzy?

And pardon me if I read it wrong, but your Bond-girl antics resulted in the wrong person (the guy who`s part in the ``crime`` was restricted to ``laughing about it and didn’t tell his friend to take a break``) being ass-whopped, whatever that is, and subjected to ``kicking, shoving and slaps`` while his friend, the one you had the problem with, was blissfully unaware of all this.

It seems to me that at the end of it all, YOU were the one who came out the better for it- not only did you get your apology (proxy hee sahee) but you had the entire might of the parking lot security force standing behind you in your quest for justice. Though- pardon this simple soul- the alleged crime is still not clear in my feeble mind.

Next time you attempt to appeal to chowk`s righteous indignation and garner a few smpathy votes for yourself, can you please ease off on the Jinnah quotes, the pop psychology/social commentary (``chauvinists thrive on women’s passivity`` and my favourite, ``mother-whore dichotomy``), the attempts at humour, etc? Just tell the story in all its detail and allow us to make up our own minds about how badly you were treated.

And yes, those fat books you see with ``Oxford``, ``Webster`` etc. written across them in the bookstore/ Those are called DICTIONARIES. Get one, willya.

Re: # 23

LOL. Dear BJ, I have been incredibly rude to you in the past for various reasons but this one deserves a bow. Or two. Please take them.

Burpy

#13 by ANull

The “unholyshitonthefaceandinthemouth” a-hole is back as grammar Nazi now. This ahole couple of years ago was a self styled intellectual. It did not take long to take the juice out of that balloon. Heheheheh…..

There was a time when this ahole was at least attempting to impress some turds, now he is down to finding grammatical errors.

“unholyshitonthefaceandinthemouth” a-hole, how about you write something here for us to judge how you present your ideas w/o any grammatical errors? Why pick on others, why not show your mettle right here?

Suggested topic: Dhoti and its benefits in rural Kerala. Heheheh….

Re: # 23

BJ man...you rock...

I have been a fan of your follow-up articles since you wrote ``Ya Allah Tera Shukar hay`` ...about a year ago...

This one is equally good...if not better...

I really enjoyed it.

Cheers
Ahmad Hayat

A woman writes an article on the indecent behaviour she had to face from men.

All that the men who managed to read it could make out were grammatical errors and typos.

But I don`t blame them.

That`s them. Men. Or rather, desi- men.

And thats exactly how far they can go.

Wonder when we will have more of women security guards.

And when desi-women will learn to tease back.

Cant help remembering the instances when I have seen gora men hold back ther sons telling them``let the lady pass``.

Thats culture. A different one.

Aisha, Here is a quote from Angelika Schaser`s study of the patriotic German women`s movement in the `Second Reich`.

Male-only nation

Practically every new nation that was founded denied women citizenship rights, specifically the suffrage that was allotted to males, always with an apparatus of gendered `role` allotments. I take most of my examples here from the Kaiserreich (Germany 1871-1918), because that`s what I`m studying - but also because it is a fascinating example in itself.

In Imperial Germany, as Schaser puts it, ``the nation-state was composed of male individuals``. Only men had the right to vote and bear arms, men were in executive control of the family, men had superior education. Women belonged to the world principally through the family, while men accessed the world through a variety of vital channels. The ‘natural’ boundaries for women were drawn around the three ‘K’s – Kinder, Kuche, Kirche (children, kitchen and church). Under the Civil Legal Code (initially elaborated in the 1870s, but finally made law in 1896), married women had no say in child’s education, and all property or money in marriage became the husband’s responsibility.

The code states: ``the husband takes the decisions in all matters affecting married life``. The practice of abortion carried a 5 year sentence, and woman suspected of prostitution had to undergo examination by the ‘Morals Police’ (Sittenpolizei), while male clients faced no such humiliation. The state placed the full responsibility of the consequences of sexual interaction on women, while apportioning the full ownership of its benefits to men. Aside from that, the prohibition on abortion can be seen as an effort to exert strict control over the reproduction of society. This, of course, is not unknown: in the Soviet Union, which was the first country to legalize abortion in 1920, abortion was outlawed again in 1936, at the height of the mass deaths from famine and repression, and only legalised again in 1955. ``

In Israel, as Yural-Davis - herself an Israeli dissident - points out, abortion rights are severely restricted and rather controversial with the right-wing, in part because of the `racial` or - to put it more euphemistically - `demographic` struggle with Palestine.

She also recalls that females who chose sterility were upbraided by for inviting ``national death`` and ``race suicide`` by one Theodore Roosevelt (this at a time when the United States government was practicing a crude form of eugenics). `Race`, of course, with its trope of extended family, of blood-lines and originary human communities, of purity and decadence, is the sina qua none of a highly gendered nationalism.”


As we clearly see that the problems that women in our part of the world face are not so uncommon. The liberal West was not any different just 100 years ago. If you allow me to add, women still get teased in the west. The difference is that now they don’t have to call the cops for help but they can, if they so desire, respond back as aggressively as they can.

I think this an important subject and despite some moron picking on the grammar here, the importance of your point is not diminished in any way.

Let me ask you a question: With the way the society is in Pakistan and elsewhere where women are easy picking, you may have encountered this male behavior on many occasions, can you consistently sustained the approach you took in this particular incident?

Dear Aisha Sarwari

Excellent! article so far on front page....
Bravo!
I must admit you took a really bold and first step to a very important issue for Pakistani women......
Aisha sista
The step that you have taken to expose the harassment of Pakistani women on the streets is the big step to end this harassment for women folks....you deserve a great appreciation for NOT putting up with this d for speaking up for your right to take you as an equal Pakistani citizen, not just a weak woman....

Yes, sadly, Pakistani women have to face such kind of harassment in their daily lives and they are expected to put up with such harassment wit dignity...and people have accepted such harassment the part and parcel of their society.....they have accepted as such abuse and harassment as the norm of society......that`s so unfortunate.

I must admit, I have always faced such situations in Pakistan, but, in USA have never experienced such harassment....In Pakistan, I can`t even think about going out in public alone without anyone.....
On the contrary, in USA I always travel alone.....never faced anything like that......and sad thing is , it is Pakistan where they remind and preach women to be subdued and submissive, in USA nobody tells women to be submissive or subdued, they do what they want to do without any danger of being harassed.......

You know why?B/c of strict law enforcement policies....

When I am in Pakistan, I always tell others,``Please, don`t remind me who I am , where I can go and where I can`t, what I can wear and what I can`t, stop patronizing my life with your unnecessary reminder for me , how to carry myself,how to stand,how to talk, how to look in my own homeland? without feeling at home.....
I do not tell these Pakistani men to respect me as their own family females,but, to take me as an equal human being and as an equal Pakistani citizen who can roam in the bazaars just like Pakistani men without any threatening environment and why not? Every Pakistani lady is as much a Pakistani citizen as any gentleman is? And My question to these Pakistani men is, `` listen, we Pakistani ladies just wish to roam around without the four walls of our homes just to feel free,that doesn`t mean we wish to be seen or we wish to be visible for men.....Just think about it.

The same society takes these men breaking every kinds of norms as norms,but, when any woman even tries to hang out in the streets of Pakistan, the same woman is considered ,``rebellious, Bit*h``etc, etc....

Pakistani society`s perspective needs to be educated about taking women as some objects of desire....they should be treated with dignity and respect, not like puppets.....

Let me tell you about my own experiences in Pakistan, I have had been harassed there no matter which dresses I wear.....whether I wear Jeans,shalwar kameez, chaddar, dupatta......I felt the same threatening environment for women out there on the streets......

Trust me, one day I even tried to wear burqa,but, I felt the samething......So, my whole point is, it has got nothing to do with dresses..........Whole society`s concept about taking women as objects need to be changed......and also strict law enforcements needs to be implemented.....

And that`s the reality and cruel reality.....

Pakistanis need to be mentally educated regarding this sad situation....

Stop street violence against Pakistani women....

Readers,

Don`t bother to read the original article where you will need to decipher all the cliches and ungrammatical English and all. Just read post #23 for the actual episode narrated by Aisha Sarwari ji.


# 23, bjkumar Saheb,

Are you a script writer or something? You can expect some Bollywood producer come knocking at your door any time. Nice!

Samar

Dear HP,

I am reasonably sure that self styled English professors from India like Alephnull can probably not utter a single sentence in the English language without making an utter fool of themselves (and when they do survive that it is usually because the accent is so utterly incomprehensible to the other person) ... hence the anal retentiveness when it comes to grammar... it is a deep-rooted colonial complex really or maybe something even deeper, a sense of insecurity because this fellow often boasts about ``backpacking through Europe``. The primary purpose of language is communication and as far as communication goes the article has made its points well.

On another thought, there may be a case for Alephnull to go and correct the homies when they say ``it don`t`` instead of ``it doesn`t``... but there I suspect, A`null has complexes of another kind.

Yaraan, I was not trying to distract from the seriousness of the issue at hand, just thought a bit of humor will do us good - at Yasser`s expense, too (hey, what are the ``worse half``s for?!)

Its a nice article highlighting as to what actually we as a women living in society like ours have to face.

But the thing is what is the solution to this problem??

Is there any solution at all???

revolutionization of the patriarchal mindset is the only way out, i guess.

#23 bjkumar

OUCH! OUCH! OUCH!

Indeed!!

http://blanknoiseproject.blogspot.com/
This is an org in India dedicated to empowering women and educating men about eve teasing.
It has done good work in recent years.
As Shandana has said, raising a voice through all means possible is a part of the solution.
Aisha, if you dont mind, do submit your writeup to the Blank Noise Project as well.
Thanks.

Re: # 23

bj,

....... that was really funny ! ......... enjoyed it (as always)...... please feel free to post all the homoerotic pictures you want - you have redeemed yourself (again) !

...it`s funny to see chowk publishing the said article depicting the everyday harassment of a female in pakistan whie women are insulted, called dirtiest na,es on a daily basis on chowk and no one gives a damn untill the reciver of the sexual insults is chowk`s ex editor who took a longer than expected hiatus for unknown reasons and has not been since...thank god for small mercies...the champions of chowk in the art of hurting, insulting and abusing females are: drum roll please... zeemax, the defender of the faith and salim chauhan, the chameleon...but chowk thinks it`s kosher then it must be...

aisha,

........ the first thing that strikes you when you land in pakistan is the relative absence of women in public and the unblinking stares of men focussed on the few brave souls who dare to venture out ........... as somone said earlier, this sexual frustration is the result of the segregation of sexes at a very young age ........ i have noticed a marked difference in attitude between my nephews who go to co-ed schools and those who go to all boys schools - the boys who go to co-ed schools tend to be more comfortable, polite and `civilized` around women ........ i feel sorry for the poor boys who grow up thinking that women are beings from another planet - they tend to behave like uncouth `dangars` ..........

....... next time use mace instead of relying on the guards ........

i was walking behind a middle aged man and his son in a park in karachi the other day. the kid must have been about eight or nine, and they were discussing the physical merits and demerits of the women who passed them. the kid would make a comment, the father would praise him if he thought it was graphic enough or gently correct him and add to it if he felt it was weak. they were walking quite slowly, but since my ears were already burning and their idiocy was doing for my heartrate what jogging only aspires to do, i adjusted my pace and stayed behind them till they left.

does this only happen in pakistan? in america last month a man came up to me on the street and said `shall i compare thee to a summers day?`. at a security checkpoint a guard held out his tray and said `belt, keys, phone number`.

over the years i have learnt that the best way to avoid men practising their lines on you is to look really pissed off, like super `i`m going to chop off your testicles and make kapuras` pissed off. the only completely effective way to avoid men practising their lines on you is to die.

i am working on a slightly less permanent alternative.

people who are attacking the author about typos and grammar...why? there have been lots of other articles on fp with poor editing, why no super focus on those?

Re: # 6

Gandhi would obviously not have such carnal desires to one-up on women because he keeps perversion in the family, the nieces absorb his desires so then he can appear in parking lots as a clean guy who supports women`s suffrage movement.

Gandhi:

This is why I am not in favor of giving Muslims equal rights. They tease me and I find it very uncomfortable despite the salt enemas administered in me every morning by the ashram staff.

A few moments ago, I was walking up the stairs from Mountbatten`s living room, late for a personal high-level meeting with my nieces, shoving my stick ahead of my ancient knees, while two Muslims who appeared to have camaraderie with each other were coming down. As they possessed me, the uglier guy with glasses greeted me with Assalamualaikum, App keysey hain Bapu!``

I was used to the cow eating, the talk of equality, the humming of Allama Iqbal songs or even a religious proclamation of how great God is, this sort of thing, however had me stop and take notice. I asked for a clarification from the Muslaman, and he went on to make generally trivial chit-chat about how my friend Nehru was upstairs doing it with Edwina.

Understanding full well that Muslamans thrive on Hindu passivity, I learned to give in to my indignity and forgo the fight of telling random Muslims off. Sometimes even when I want to fight back, their timing is too perfect and their precision that of a seasoned actor on Broadaway. Before I can feel the stab of inferiority and their power to communicate a stark message, they are gone, under the folds of a society that is so sickly corrupted by all this talk of separate electorates. Everyday it is a battle, but I trivialize the over-muslimization of a grossly mixed society whose religion doesn`t believe in a Hindu dominance over Muslims. It’s nothing, I say, not worth it. But the truth is its very bloody and it wounds me each time and it leaves its mark every time it happens.

So this time, I fought back. I called for two British guards who were guarding Mountbatten`s palace. New at their job, they refused to budge because they didn’t have “orders” to move from the spot that both of them were designated on to stand. I couldn’t believe it. This was no time for colonialism. Exasperated from all the hunger strikes, but still somewhat in control, I let the Muslim flee. I walked up to the guards and told them if they slapped me I would turn the other cheek. I could hear myself becoming a whiny powerless nagging old man and I realized then that this was my true calling.

By then enough Hindu men, old men, young men, men with Bhramin values, men who believe our religious values need protection had gathered to catch the “honor-less” folk. They asked me to identify the Muslim. I found myself increasingly being part of a large Mahabharat drama – I loved this too.

Gandhi in The Handmaid’s Tale
Aisha Sarwari
October 4, 2005


Gandhi’s Anti-Feminist opinions

“My idea is to get these women to spin yarn.” MK Gandhi

I’m glad that no woman leader, at least not of international stature, has awarded their inspiration to M.K Gandhi known to the devout as The Mahatma, for it is because of these saintly Ayatollahs that women are not at the top of world affairs.

Saintly men are the most irresponsible of talkers, the most skilled illusionists. Even years after his death, Gandhi looms on San Francisco’s pier 42 as a statue of truth, sponsored by Pepsi Co. He is known to the world as a leader of the independence movement of India. He’s known as a frail man who led thousands to fight the British using the original method of non-violence. He’s a great story, but out of all his unpalatable myths I find the one about his “emancipator of women” most offensive.

Gandhi was the embodiment of traditionalism, religion and patriarchy all rolled into one. I say if you want to confine a woman, give her the role of cooking, label it sacred and her indispensable from the skill of its preparation and Viola! - There you have a society where men can reign supreme. This is of course my personal opinion but I am sure no non-chef woman will appreciate that Gandhi describes cooking as an obligation that all women must fulfill. Describing Hindu festivities he says, “The ladies are making preparations for the approaching grand day, by cooking and baking sweets, cakes, etc., for, in India, women of the highest class would not mind cooking. In fact, it is an accomplishment which every lady is supposed to possess.” (1)

Excuse my pettiness. I personally detest cooking as a women-only job. But I also find men referring to their likes and dislikes using women as a standard of honor, in extreme bad taste. An impartial reading of The Collected Works of Mahatma Gandhi has references of women being compared to methods of taxation, to market forces and to political systems.

So ingrained in his mind was the concept of the “fallen woman” as a woman who uses her sexuality by choice, that he talked of the concept with international correspondents during interviews. He says, “The condition of England at present is pitiable. I pray to God that India may never be in that plight. That which you consider to be the Mother of Parliaments is like a sterile woman and a prostitute. Both these are harsh terms, but exactly fit the case.” (2)

Margret Atwood novel, The Handmaids’s Tale, talks of a dystopia in a world without feminism. In it she outlines the most distinguishing feature of a totalitarian patriarchy to be an obsession with a woman’s ovaries to be viable. These societies want babies for the purpose of indoctrination and control. It is perhaps for this reason that Gandhi got a respectable member ousted from the London Vegetarian society, because he was advocating for birth control.

Gandhi continued about the British system of the time: “That Parliament has not yet, of its own accord, done a single good thing. Hence I have compared it to a sterile woman. The natural condition of that Parliament is such that, without outside pressure, it can do nothing. It is like a prostitute because it is under the control of ministers who change from time to time. Today it is under Mr. Asquith, tomorrow it may be under Mr. Balfour.” (3)

The second most defining characteristic from Atwood’s novel was the concept of anarchy resulting from a woman’s choice to select a partner for sex, because it puts pressure on men to compete for women, by bring to par their standards for women, rather than the other way round. Using Islamic Feminist, Fatima Mernessi’s argument- how chauvinists chose to deal with the fear was to debase a prostitute and define her in the most sinful state that the divine’s wrath is on.

Gandhi’s general opinion about women was very low. Not only did he objectify women by using statements that call to “cling to the old Indian civilization even as a child clings to the mother`s breast,” he shed all egalitarianism and insisted that “the care of children and the upkeep of the house is quiet enough to fully engage her energy.” (4)

When speaking of women Gandhi was often patronizing and authoritarian. To Gandhi the “good Indian woman” was epitomized by Sita, Draupadi, and Damyanti.

He’s often quoted saying that women made “too much noise,” that they didn’t observe “purdah,” nor did they know how to assemble near him with propriety. It is “difficult to “interest them in everyday topics,” because of their “extravagant and hypocritical” nature. They always, “gossip and are too found of their jewelry to part with it.” Women, he said don’t have organizational skills and must be “guided” by men. (5)

Another defining symbolism that the people in Atwood’s novel took to was “veiling” and propriety. Talking was prohibited, and possession of personal assets was treated a crime as bad as sedition. Of course in Gilerd, Atwood’s fictional account of the state, men were in charge of women.

However, Gandhi was a clever man, for every crude comment against women, he had 10 that supported women to go out and campaign, suggesting empowerment.

Gandhi prompted women to “defy” their husbands if they have to and step outside the house in the greater national movement, because women had natural “traits” and a “traditional role” which they could use in the great “battle to gain access in the temples of the untouchables whose numbers were needed. (6)

To get to the bottom of it, Gandhi’s double standard in the case of his wife’s political activism against the Marriage Act of 1913 in South Africa is telling.

After calling women to disobey for the cause, Gandhi was later apprehensive. When Kasturba, his wife led women against the Act, he said he “lacked confidence” in her abilities. He clarified, “If at the last moment they flinched, their prominence might seriously damage the cause they sought to advance. (7)

It was finally decided to let the “ladies” proceed with their plan but under no circumstance were they to divulge their names until they were “safely” in jail. Thus their men could be “saved from embarrassment if the women failed.” (8)

After they returned from jail, Gandhi urged them to be the same “patient and dutiful women that India has produced for centuries.” (9)

The Handmaid’s Tale, the centeral character, Offerd, was expected to be “patient and dutiful” moreover, she was forbidden to work/slave outside her household, though it may have been perfectly ok for her to do so inside. Similarly, Gandhi’s ideal society was unlike the European society, which he called an irreligious society:

“This civilization is irreligion, and it has taken such a hold on the people in Europe who are in it appear to be half mad. They lack real physical strength or courage. They keep up their energy by intoxication. They can hardly be happy in solitude. Women, who should be the queens of households, wander in the streets or they slave away in factories. For the sake of a pittance, half a million women in England alone are labouring under in factories or similar institutions. This awful fact is one of the causes of the daily growing suffragette movement.”

This statement also shows a clear lack of comprehension of the processes that a society must follow to develop and allocate resources equitably.

Some may argue that Gandhi’s personal character should be reviewed rather than his flawed statements. Fair enough: Shall we move on to how he treated his wife?

First of all, he didn’t think he needed her input on his vow of celibacy or the decision to have no more children. Certainly, even women from that era would not settle for an agreement so skewed in power. “It became my conviction that procreation and the consequent care of children were inconsistent with public service.” (10)

He had a lifelong conviction that most religious clergy have. That women were sexual beings, that they tempted, that men lusted when they saw them and that they were an indulging temptation that were diametrically opposed to a God that demanded suffering and extreme self-control.

“To be fair to my wife, I must say that she was never the temptress. It was therefore the easiest thing for me to take the vow of brahmacharya , if only I willed it.” (11)

It surprises me to no end, that MK. Gandhi is praised for spirituality but he never understood its basic fact that, the soul is developed only though interaction with the material, and not in isolation of it.

“The other thing which is equally harmful is sexual vice. Both are poison. A snake-bite is a lesser poison than these two, because the former merely destroys the body but the latter destroy body, mind and soul.” (12)

Gandhi was a carnal being, who instead of committing to self-improvement, decided to Band Aid his jealous boyfriend issues though religion, and also gaining some international fame as a result. He’s probably the only global figure who commands awe and respect dispite doing his own plumbing and not having sex for ages.

“I had absolutely no reason to suspect my wife`s fidelity, but jealousy does not wait for reasons. I must needs be for ever on the look-out regarding her movements, and therefore she could not go anywhere without my permission. I wanted to make my wife an ideal wife. My ambition was to make her live a pure life.” (13)

The idea of women’s independence was not acceptable to Gandhi, says also Anup Taneja who researched the topic, unlike my opinion piece here. The question to ask is if the world can afford to accept an icon who rejected half of humanity’s values, and was willing to lock them up in the four walls of “evil traditions.”

Yasser,

>>English professors from India<<

That`s a wrong expression. It should always be `Professor of English from India` because English also connote ethnicity. This is the most common mistake committed even by teachers who teach English in India (No ENGLISH teacher, btw).

We may accpet these phrases under Indianisms.............

Aisha

As Shandana said registering a protest is sometimes the best thing to do. My friends big sister was going to Sadiqabad on a bus with her mum when this moron sitting behind them kept trying to touch her through the seat, when she told aunty, auntyji kicked up a fuss `tere kaar ma pehn nai eh?` sort of stuff, everyone else beat the guy up and threw him off the bus...

its amazing how other men beat these guys up when a women raises her voice but dont say anything otherwise... those men should be shamed publicly by the girl and watch how all the other guys beat them up!!!

Aisha,

Anti-women is different from anit-feminism. Gandhi was not anti-women like ur closet mullah & mullis (JH babes).

[[38 by khamy1 on May 30, 2007 5:05am PT
...it`s funny to see chowk publishing the said article depicting the everyday harassment of a female in pakistan whie women are insulted, called dirtiest na,es on a daily basis on chowk and no one gives a damn untill the reciver of the sexual insults is chowk`s ex editor who took a longer than expected hiatus for unknown reasons and has not been since...thank god for]]]]

khamkhwa sahib

Look who`s talking?
And what about yourself? How can you criticise others when you are yourself champion and king of harrasment for me and for Farzana Versey?

You are #1 abuser and sucker of this site.

You are always on un plugged to harrass me with your abusive gaalis......

Now go back to un plugged and start same harrassment for me.

Calling me with differnt abusive names, calling Farzana Versey with the highest gaalis possible, here on chowk and then on desibukbuk.com.........that is the way your life revolves.......

Even though I requested you million times politely to stop cyber harrasing me on chowk( unfortunately which you have been doing for the last few years) and will continue to do so........you come up with same shamelessness and do not stop.


So, since you have started this discussion here(Thanks to Aisha`s boldness), why not start from you?

Mr.khamhwa

When will you stop harrasing me?

#41 by aisha_sarwari on May 30, 2007 5:23am PT

Is it something ur prophet whose desires wre absorbed by an under-age tot by name Aisha?

#39 by hamidm2 on May 30, 2007 5:06am PT

[[[[- the boys who go to co-ed schools tend to be more comfortable, polite and `civilized` around women ........ i feel sorry for the
the poor boys who grow up thinking that women are beings from another planet - they tend to behave like uncouth `dangars` .......... ]]]]

hamdim2 sahib
Wawawa....
And what about yourself?

Since I have been posting on chowk front page, you are constantly harrasing me for reasons unknown. What`s the reason of your ,``uncouth online behaviour``?

#38 by khamy1
khamy sahib

You also come up with dozens of multiple nicks and then start your 24/7 harrasment for me on un plugged............

And then you have all the nerves to criticise others......

Zeena: Mrs Manto should thank you...your rants in your really really bad English makes her column look like it was written by a professor of English...

Re:#40 by Shandana
[[does this only happen in pakistan? in america last month a man came up to me on the street and said `shall i compare thee to a summers day?`. at a security checkpoint a guard held out his tray and said `belt, keys, phone number`.]]

No it can happen anywhere in the world....but, in USA I have never ever
experienced any kind of public harrasment myself and I have been living in USA since I was in my teens.

And the main reason is strict law enforcement.....
I have been traveling a lot all by myself......

Aisha,

U are a woman of guile. I dont if u got this from ur husband or was it inherited from ur parents.

This site shud promote amity btw India and Paistan, not HATE.

#44 by ally on May 30, 2007 5:46am PT


auntyji kicked up a fuss `tere kaar ma pehn nai eh?


The retort to that would be: hai to, par itni sexy nahi...

sad. sad that you have men who cannot behave. sad that people have to go through this ordeal. Maybe next time you will be chaparoned (sp???????) by your husband (the guy who is cooking - thanks BJ #23) 8-() (hey just kidding)

But as shandana says in #40 happens everywhere - but conetxt and nature is different.

If we removed the notion of ``segretation of sexes `` from our minds how different would our reaction be to the same. Would we react any differently to the guard who asked for ``key, wallet, and phone number``? Or is it that somehow, we feel that the people of our skin colour should know their place just we know our place when the same is done in the west? Who knows? It would be an interesting angle ...

nevertheless sympathies are due to you...and a very good stand you ahev taken. A blow on womens behalf....next time shoot the guy in his goolies......

#32 by Mantolives on May 30, 2007 2:25am PT



I am reasonably sure that self styled English professors from India like Alephnull can probably not utter a single sentence in the English language without making an utter fool of themselves


Wow...so many grammatical errors in what, I`m sure, was meant to be the perfect retort...

Ivy league standards ain`t what they used to be...

Alephnull, where the depth (ala #13).......you are becoming finite and countable friend - cannot happen to cantors. Or are you just an imposter?

#52 by Folio on May 30, 2007 6:07am PT
Aisha,

U are a woman of guile. I dont know if u got this from ur husband or was it inherited from ur parents.

This site shud promote amity btw India and Pakistan, not HATE.

Re: # 6 he would have suggested present your other cheek to them....rather ask them to repeat themselves and go into a trance.....chaltahai you are one hell of a devious burger ;)

zeena devi...various.

arz kiya hai...:

voh baat saray fasaney mein jis ka zikr na tha
voh baat un ko bahut na-gwaar guzri hai

[but, in USA I have never ever experienced any kind of public harrasment myself and I have been living in USA since I was in my teens.] #51

...this happens to women only... ;)

[[#50 by arjun2 on May 30, 2007 6:06am PT
Zeena: Mrs Manto should thank you...your rants in your really really bad English makes her column look like it was written by a professor of English...]]]

arjun

Am I the topic of this article?or, my bad English is the topic of this article?
Decide...

Why don`t you write something in your excellent English on front page?and then we will appreciate your English language skills per se.....

You are here on chowk 24/7 with cut and paste and with your vilest abuse against Pakistanis.....

I know you are English Gora(white man from India) with English genes flushing all around your body morphology...........
Tell me who was gora in your family?Your mom or your dad?

I am not gora sahib, and that`s the reason my English language is poor.

#60 by khamy1 on May 30, 2007 6:34am PT
[but, in USA I have never ever experienced any kind of public harrasment myself and I have been living in USA since I was in my teens.] #51

...this happens to women only... ;) ]]

khamy sahib

So, I am not woman....exaclty..this is called cyber harrasement...
Thank you, you gave me a proof. My case is closed.

How about your mother?Is she a woman or man?

And still you and your shamelessness...

aisha sarwari...
... i guarantee 500 interacts to your article...you can thank me later...;)

khamy sahib
Have you ever thought about your own family females being harrassed by men? the way you harrassed stranger females on chowk 24/7?

But, I guess your family females are used to of being harrassed by you...so, they don`t know the difference, poor ladies.

If, an abuser and harrasser like you can abuse stranger ladies on chowk or on other web sites like desibukbuk.com, I am sure you must be abusing your family @ home.......

But, again, I don`t know , if, you consider your family females as females or males......

#63 yep! it was started off in #6, and taken up later on....I am sure a few more of this and you are guaranteed 1000! What was Manto`s record?

this is what happening if not prpoperly musalnaam. Mrs Hamdani, you need to be sure you create good musalmaan country in pakistan. join the ladies in islamabad and protest. we musalmaans from hunoodstan shouting.

nothing can change unless deep deep culture is unrooted.gandhi was a philanderrer and eve teaser. tell what was he, teasing eves or being teased by woman

this picture is better

[[[double standards...?

Started by khamy1 on May 30, 2007 5:10am PT

...it`s funny to see chowk publishing the aisha sarwari`s article depicting the everyday harassment of a female in pakistan while women are insulted,abused and called dirtiest names on a daily basis on chowk... [[[champions of chowk in the art of hurting, insulting and abusing females are]]]:... zeemax, the defender of the faith and salim chauhan, the chameleon who is really a chooha...what do you think about such double standards ]]]]

khamy sahib

This is your thread on un plugged .....
Exactly, why do you have double standards for yourself?
Why do you have a selective morality?

Yes, it is really funny that you pick on others,but, forget about your own abusive gaalis...
Yes, indeed.....you`re champion in this ART of hurting,insulting and abusing females (stranger females on internet who disagree with you)..........

What do you think about your own double standards? or you are unable to think at all.......

PS:- Excellent points raised by you,BUT, ONLY if you practice what you preach..........nothing more to say....

Regards

So someone made a pass at Aisha..and that resulted in Jinnah and gandhi rantings in her article and subsequently. There seems to be something deeply sexually pathological in this.

#61 by Zeena on May 30, 2007 6:37am PT


Am I the topic of this article?or, my bad English is the topic of this article?


You could be the subject of a whole book: The downside of inbreeding.

what the heck has gandhi and jinnah got to do with line maroaing women?

Take it in your stride and get on with life. Alright if you must show off your social position try doing in a soceity where feudalism is not fashionable. In pakistan you took the law into your hands.

If this the way educated folk behave, taking the law into their own hands, why the heck do you complain when you get shot by the nafia and the army. Show your strenght and hit back. What a spineless act and so very unlawful.

And you want sympathies! Alright you got it, pity in bucketfuls for the foolish manner in which the law was made an ass.

#18 by chaltahai on May 29, 2007 5:18pm PT
is ass-whopping a euphemism for dancing peshawar style or does the author mean ``ass-whupping``?


Actually both of you are wrong. It`s ass whooping, not whopping or whupping.

Queenie,

>>Alright if you must show off your social position try doing in a soceity..<<<

If u dont know she runs/edits a e-magazine by name www.naseeb.com

For them (Pakistanis), leaving the country and going abroad is naseeb.

#70 by arjun2
[[you could be subject of whole book]]

Wow!!!

So, you pay your complete attention to me 24/7 and have started writing whole book on me.....
Thanks

BTW, you did not answer my question...Who is gora among your mom and dad? From where did you hire your English genes?

#74 by Zeena on May 30, 2007 12:17pm PT


retard: why do you need english genes to speak(or write) half-decent english...assuming you`re not descended from goats, which one of your parents gave you - or should I say rent you - the genes that give you the ability to wear western clothes??

Aisha Jee:
You were brave in dealing with this man. I commend you.
However, did you not take law in your hand by asking that chokwidar to beat that person. He also has rights for proper hearing in the courthouse. Remember that he is innocent till proven guilty by the court.

#75 arjun2
You completely lost your mind....LOL

Go, take a brak from this ranting and raving againts Pakistanis 24/7 on chowk.....refresh yourself with some good Indian food....like musala doosua from Bombay chaattyy house in edison......

and then come back with more cut and paste against pakistanis at least for the next 48 hours non stop........hahahah

retard.....trying to be gora with Indian skin....

arjun2
joo are berry berry phoor, and hangry, phleezzz, gooo eattttt, some heenggg daalllll with Indian currryyyyyy...clean youuuu ishtodiooooapanetmeent , too much shmeel ijj making yooooooo retard...........LOL

#78 by Zeena on May 30, 2007 1:30pm PT
arjun2
joo are berry berry phoor, and hangry, phleezzz, gooo eattttt, some heenggg daalllll with Indian currryyyyyy...clean youuuu ishtodiooooapanetmeent , too much shmeel ijj making yooooooo retard...........LOL


Xena Dahling,

Are u alright??

Oh my! These interacts are resembling petty playground squabbles.

In school it was the usual my daddy`s bigger then your daddy, here in Chowk it`s upgraded to my country is then your country,my religion is better then your religion etc etc! Can`t we grow up and have decent,healthy discussions!

#35 Samankhan

My dear, while you are here, let me interject! I encourage you to write more often - you REALLY need to!

Your ``Advantage, Men`` and ``So Long Farewell`` - the two that I have read - were my absolute favorites!

A story that starts with a quote from Jinnah should at least live upto certain expectations. Once I got over the hurdle of understanding what actually transpired, I found myself feeling bad for the guy who got badly beaten by the colonel, especially since I could not make out the severity of his crime. Beating of a human being by stirring up a mob is a serious thing and I am sure author would not have undertaken this step had she been living in US. This mob justice is prevalent in Pakistan, as evidenced by May 12 events in Karachi, and unfortunately even educated folks like author are not immune from that.

So in the end we have a guy with possibly broken bones for a crime that did not seem to endanger author at anytime. Eve teasing in public places around the world a is a nuisance at best, and very rarely a personal threat. If this can lead someone to stir a mob, then what to say about more serious issues!

On a side note - it is quite clear that author is trying hard to match her husband`s love for Jinnah and hatred for Gandhi by out-doing him in quoting Jinnah and bashing Gandhi. But it appears to be as unnatural and as misplaced as the quote in the beginning of the story. For a successful marital relationship, it is not necessary that husband and wife must be of the same strong opinions on same topics. In fact wife could have a passion for painting and husband could have a passion for, say, Jinnah and they could still live a blissful life.

This story is wrong at so many levels:
- Invoking the Qaid`s name in vain (isn`t that blasphemy or sumfn?)
- Quoting Gandhi`s sexual peccadilloes in a blatant attempt to tittilate/ provoke
- Good cop-worse cop game played by the Hamdanis (or is it the Hamdani-Sarwaris?)
- Unfairly appealing to chowkie ladeez latent feminism

In fact the only good thing about this is the fact that it inspired BJ to come up with #23.

Anyway am done here.

#84 by burpinder on May 30, 2007 8:27pm PT

gandhi boinking his neices is almost like mo boinking his child bride...

so gandhi is almost like mo...

Re: # 23

This is fucking awesome. BJ, you are usually a shitty writer but this one is pure gold.

Malik99,

I think the Jinnah quote was an apt juxtaposition to the Col`s quote. So your pathetic little attempt to use this to attack me as usual is unnecessary and wrong. I suggest that you kindly take off the blinkers that you wear and look at stuff on its merit.

The issues highlighted here are manifold and disturbing and only one of them has anything to do with harrassment the author felt:

1. The frustrations of a society deprived of entertainment which forces men to resort to such behavior.. and it is not simple eve-teasing when two men feel confident enough to physically threaten a woman walking alone in a parking lot/basement. It really has little to with anything but a power trip that these men would have felt.

2. On another website, this article got comments like ``What were you wearing?`` Let us put aside the fact that there is nothing provocative about a loose shalwar kameez and a dopatta which is what most Pakistani working women, including Aisha, wear... is there any justification for men to feel empowered enough to go up to and physically threaten a woman even if she was something provocative?

3. Security Guards are not a mob. What is sadder is that the security guard got riled up only because he assumed that Aisha was a syed... this is absolutely the bottomless pit of a sick society based on caste and false honor.

4. And the worst part in the whole thing was this:

The Colonel said that it is hard for these guys to differentiate between the “type” of women they see. Some women hold men’s hand in the parking lot. What he meant to say was, this was a simple case of miscalculation. You lady, are a married woman, with kids, I know your boss, your husband and so via the men associated with you, you deserve respect and I’ll punish these men accordingly.


BJKumar`s 23 does capture this in a unique dialogue ... but it has also trivialised these very serious issues.

#82 bjkumar

I must say your post has some how stirred me - though busy preparing news abstracts for the day my mind is wandering in search of topics to write about!
Thank you for the appreciation and encouragement.

A little confusion here:
I`ve been away from Chowk for quite a long time now and I am wondering if you are THE BEEJAY?!

Regards,
Saman Khan

Re: # 44

True!

No one can now reverse freedom of press, says Najam Sethi

By Khalid Hasan

WASHINGTON: Najam Sethi, editor of Daily Times, told a meeting here on Tuesday that no government will be able to take away the freedom that the media has won for itself in Pakistan through its long struggle.

He was speaking at a meeting organised by the Heritage Foundation to discuss the current judicial and political crisis in Pakistan. Shuja Nawaz, author of ‘Crossed Swords,’ a book on the Pakistan Army, and Hassan Abbas, a Boston-based Pakistani academic and author, also addressed the meeting.

Sethi provided the audience that included several South Asia experts with a detailed account of how the crisis had developed and why it was necessary to resolve it sooner rather than later so that the situation does not turn into one of chaos. He said the MQM, which had received a “green light” from the president to block the chief justice from addressing the Karachi bar, is the biggest loser today, especially in the Punjab where it was trying to set itself up. It is clear by now that the president, despite being advised by some to withdraw the reference made to the Supreme Judicial Council (SJC), is not going to do so. Benazir Bhutto is not going to return as she is scared of what the court cases against her might produce. She also has fears about her physical safety. Nawaz Sharif is primarily interested in Gen Pervez Musharraf’s removal from the scene. He said if the chief justice is restored, it will not suit the government, and if he is not restored, the crisis will be prolonged. However, if Gen Musharraf makes a deal with the PPP, it can work. There is still time, although it is running out fast. The window of opportunity is going to close before long. If Gen Musharraf decides to impose martial law, as he has once indicated by referring to “extra-constitutional” steps, it will result in “political anarchy”.

Sethi felt that an arrangement between the civilian politicians and Gen Musharraf is necessary to restore order. He said the war on terror cannot be carried on by a fully democratic government, nor will it be possible to proceed with the peace process with India, as an alienated army will see to it that both are blocked. Similarly, the progress made on women’s rights and other civil society initiatives by the Musharraf regime will be put on hold if not reversed. A fully democratic government will be susceptible to the influence of conservative clerics and right-wing elements. There will be pressure on the government for further “Islamisation”. He warned that if Gen Musharraf is ousted, there will emerge 20 centres of power, all clamouring for a piece of the pie. He said Gen Musharraf should see the wisdom and advisability of playing a “transitional” role in bringing about an understanding between the civil and military establishments.

Lisa Curtis, head of the South Asia programme at the Heritage Centre, who moderated the discussion, said that the United States should encourage Gen Musharraf to bring in a secular, democratic order in Pakistan. She felt that if Gen Musharraf continues to act in an autocratic way, it will be bad for the US, no less than for Pakistan.

Re: # 43

Point taken.

#88 Samankhan

Yes, ma`m! The list of the even dozen is:

BeeJay=bjkumar=Stan=Beej=CD_Lion=Delta_High=Beej.=BJK=bjkumar.=bj2=BJ003=BJ004

Most of the nicks besides ``bjkumar`` are currently banned.