Month of the Gun

Another masterpiece from our psuedo leftist journalist. I am at times amazed at the way simple things are given a complicated and yet plausible twist:

"It is just a party that came about at a time of great ethnic paranoia characterised by a persecution complex that was ripe during the Zia era. It will always have a violent streak if and when it sees a situation where it finds its turf being attacked by other mostly Punjab and Pukhtun based groups."

I wonder what Pukhtun or Punjabi group was threatening the turf of MQM on 12th May and secondly dont you think twenty years is a long time, I mean long enough to grow out of this persecution complex!

A party presently formed around a cult of personality today can not have a violent streak of the sort Mr Paracha is trying to rationalize and justify

And by the way NFP what did u expect Aitzaz Ahsan to say when he spoke on that conference. May be something like that " You know people although so many people have been killed today but really Zia regime is responsible for that as 20 years ago it created this air of ethnic paranoia. Today therefore all of us should condemn Zia regime and forgive MQM. It is not all fascist as it represents 70% of population of Karachi. I agree with Musharraf that there is no need for judicial inquiry as we already know that Zia regime is responsible for that."

Zeena, a question for you. Why do sometimes some Pakistanis switch to using Bharat and Bharati for India and Indians?

Sure, that`s a very beautiful name, and people might choose to use it all the time, but does it connote something bad or undesirable in Pakistan? Like, arjun uses the term ``Paki?`` :)

Imran Khan with all his honesty........in the making of a great leader..........Listen

From the board of Pakistan tehreek-e-Insaf.com

[[[i came across an audio tape recorded on 1987, in which altaf of mqm says: ``mahajiro! aslah kharido aslah, tv vcr chhoro, aslah kharido``. mqm is first organization of its kind in pakistan, which started its activities on the basis of smuggled arms. thousands and thousands of pakistanis have been killed by the terrorists of this organization. mqm`s terrorists are trained in bharat by bharti army. the same bharti army once trained mukti bahini of east pakistan. i read a news story in an old news paper of 1987, in which a pashto speaking muslim was ziped with iron belts and then blown up alive by throwing petrol and then fire. innocent poor pashtoon was requesting: `` please kill me with gun, but please do not blow me up`` mqm`s terrorists were laghing and taunting at the cry of that pashtoon. just imagine the scene in your dreams. mqm has killed thousands and thousands of innocent muslims like that. this is just one single example. any pakistani who believes in quran and our innocent prophet (pbuh) will always hate this terrorist mqm. mqm has purchased millions of dollars of armory from afghan war lords in 1980s. but underground members of zia`s govt like aslam baig and pervaiz musharraf provided full support to this terrorist organization. they had organized fake fights between panjabis,sindhis,pashtoons and urdu speaking community just to strengthen terrorist mqm. whenever see a mqm member just remember these events. these members represent those terrorists,who have unromovable spots of blood on their faces. just always remember it. if you support mqm, it means you support killers, murderers, and remember our prophet (pbuh) never support murderers. please choose the prophet`s way(pbuh). thank you.]]]]
www.tehreek-e-insaaf.com

#179 by cliftonbridge,


Why ... Thank you ... :)

70%=Share in GDP, revenue, geniuses, productivity, knowledge ...zee you have looked into your soul and come up with honesty. I feel like a mother cat watching a kitten open its eyes for the first time, and i am proud.

I just thought of an appropriate name for the groupies of the Machhar Q Movement:

The ``70% Club``

Whereas:

Groupies=tazeen etc.

70%=Share in GDP, revenue, geniuses, productivity, knowledge, cheap jeans, kali shaklein, tit-less wonders, spindly legs etc... etc ...

:~)

awww thanks ...much love salim :)

Re: # 174


Imagine misogyny and stupidity in ONE person and that too in gigantic proportions ....

thats UNFORGIVEABLE

Cliftonbridge # 169 {``4. I think its shameful that Imran Khan has nothing to say about the constant bomb blasts and attacks on OUR ARMY in the NWFP/baluchistan. Clearly he has little interest in bringing anyone else to ``justice`` except a secular urdu speaker who isnt seduced by the CJ monkey. How predictable of Mr woman hating mullah shagging dancing girl for the MMA opportunist. WHere was his fucking sense of justice when he couldnt get out of bed to help pass the women`s protection bill?

At least the MQM guys are man enough to keep their violence directed at other men with guns. Not like the pansy wife beating sister shagging confederacy of dunces that are ``the opposition``. ``}

Clifton,
WOW! :)
You have put the ``liberal democrat`` hypocrite in his place. This bigoted, racist masquerades as a champion of ``democracy`` and ``egalitarianism,`` while he denies basic human rights and inalienable right to citizenship to 300,000 ``stranded`` Pakistanis, just because they will add to the number of Urdu-speaking Mohajirs in Karachi. This man hates all of us Urdu-speakers and needs to be exposed as thoroughly as you had done in your post. Please do me a favor, never never accept a burqa. We need our better halves to lead our people out of ignorance, delusion, illiteracy, and sheer stupidity. Thanks. It`s time we had an Altafa Behen for leader. :)

:) you see zee on this one we cant agree because i dont really care about people`s passports although truth be told altaf could def. conduct himself better in many ways. On the other hand misogyny and stupidity are irredeemable.

;) at 171 172 and 170

#169 by cliftonbridge,

Clifton, at-least that ``woman hating mullah shagging`` guy never gave a damn about acquiring a Brit citizenship over a Pakistani one even having studied and lived there most of his life and despite having married a top-class gori, while a ``baji loving sindhi shagging`` pir I`ve heard of who after having driven cabs in NY and an interlude of leadery/thuggery in Pakistan went to UK on the pretext of asylum and when the Brit Government got fed-up with thousands of parasite-status-seekers gave up and gave everyone amnesty, he proudly waved his second-class brit passport on primetime TELEVISION !!!

Have you read a book called Of Mice and Men ... ?

:~)

Well said clifton. Not a squeak comes from Imran Khan regarding any acts of violence against women, not a squeak. He goes around acting so bold, but this man is the biggest coward. All his politics is done while sitting on the laps of mullah politicians or Taleban supporters in the ISI. He`s loud mouth sissy.

Re: # 169

clifton-ka-pull

Aapnay tho bilkul hee nanga karkay mara hai....dil khush kitha jinaab

Jee rukh.

Cliftonbridge # 169

HaHaHa

Even your `opposition` on this board - zee sahib, tahmed, HP - must be turning into diehard fans:

Mr woman hating mullah shagging dancing girl for the MMA opportunist....

Pansy wife beating sister shagging confederacy of dunces .....

Wah wah, remind me never to be on your wrong side :)

Tahmed says
``Far more dangerous than the ethnic fascism of mqm are the forces of islamic fascism in Pakistan. Fascism and militarism go hand in hand, and the best antidote to fascism is assertion of the basic rights of all individuals``

1.yes i agree Tahmed. But at this point there are only two parties that can come to power in karachi MQM or IJI and only a fool would tell you different. Now maybe you see why the MQM fascism gets overlooked. For want of a better option.

2. I do also condemn ethnic chauvanism and ofcourse ethnic violence. The only reason why people still vote for an ethnic party in karachi is because realistically urdu speakers have been discriminated as an ethnicity (quota system for eg) which makes them kind of interested in not being left out which is what happens when other ethnicities rise to power.

3. There is a lot of needless intolerance in Pakistan some criticisms of MQM are genuine as are some defences of the MQM. The idea that MQM is blameless is wrong and the idea that MQM must go is even worse. They need to clean house and they need to stay. Because 7 million urdu speakers in karachi are not going anywhere and they are not represented by anyone else (except the fundo`s who make up the pathetic IJI).

4. I think its shameful that Imran Khan has nothing to say about the constant bomb blasts and attacks on OUR ARMY in the NWFP/baluchistan. Clearly he has little interest in bringing anyone else to ``justice`` except a secular urdu speaker who isnt seduced by the CJ monkey. How predictable of Mr woman hating mullah shagging dancing girl for the MMA opportunist. WHere was his fucking sense of justice when he couldnt get out of bed to help pass the women`s protection bill?

At least the MQM guys are man enough to keep their violence directed at other men with guns. Not like the pansy wife beating sister shagging confederacy of dunces that are ``the opposition``.

#167 by Salim_Chauhan,

Excellent. Is that all you`ve got left to say? Just abuse?

What Edhi is saying that even randis give him donations but karachiites don`t.

#166 Zeemux quoting Eidhi {``Mujhe to RANDI bhi chanda deti he ... 90 fi sad chanda punjab se haasil hota he.``}

Zeemax,
You didn`t tell us that 90% of the donations come from your sister. That does NOT mean that ALL of Punjab is generous.

#165 by Salim_Chauhan/ some other nonsense by baji tazeen:

Abey ... is this your generosity?


(From last week`s Daily Jang Sunday Magazine)

In case you can`t read Urdu, what this great karachiwalla Edhi is saying is that 90% of his donations come from Punjab and the Punjabis are very big-hearted donors, and when he`s told that Punjab is a big nation, he tells them that fine you`re a small nation but at-least donate that much according to that ratio ....

Now go and tell me Abdus Sattar Edhi is lying ...

You altaphi bhayyas and bajis are all liars, rodents and miscellaneous types of criminals and pests. All you do is hijack Edhi ambulances to transport arms and kill his drivers.

Zeemax #160 {``Tazeen,

I must admit I am thoroughly disappointed firstly by your blind communalism and secondly by your sheer ignorance. I thought you were an informed journalist. Now it appears you`re just another ignorant clown on Chowk of the likes of Salim Chauhan, rf786 and hassauriwala etc. ``}

Zeemux,
So, if, as Urdu-speaking Mohajirs, we differ from your racist, bigoted, and unjustified Paindoo behavior, we are all ``ignorant clowns?`` I am proud to be in the company of informed and patriotic people like Tazeen, Bismillah Bhai, and Hassauriwala. As long as you are in the opposite camp, I think we will prevail. Just your name is enough. :)

Tazeen #154 {``Every Ramazan trainload of beggers come to Karachi to beg from Punjab as we are the most generous people in Pakistan (remember who donated most during the 2005 earthquake, definitely not the punjos from lahore). ``}

Tazeen,
Very well said. While Urdu-speaking people normally do not brag about our generosity, this fact has to be hammered into the thick skulls of these Paindoos. Good job.
Although, Karachiites cannot behave differently due to our altruistic nature, the next time we need to conserve our contributions and be a bit more selective - why give aid to people who hate us, why nourish people who, when they get healthy, want to kill us or worse, become suicide bombers in our cities? Our charity is better spent on helping the poor, unfortunate stranded Pakistanis in Bangladesh. My wife and I spent many days and sent a lot of money and goods for the earthquake relief. After seeing the Punju behavior here on Chowk, I will never repeat that mistake. From now on, I care only for Urdu-speaking Mohajirs.

#161 by rf786,

The question was posed to this ahmaq tazeen. You have already been beaten down in your ignorant claim-rants.

But I suspect it isn`t tazeen`s fault she believes nonsense like that. These are the kind of lies that feed the communalism of altafi bhayyas and bajis.

[[[#153 by Tazeen on June 6, 2007 4:09am PT
Re: # 137

I hate tribal, clan-based and ethnic politics ]]]]

Tazeen
Oh, so you are another MQM waalii......What`s MQM? MQM is another mafia, killing innocent Pakistani Karachiits on the streets like yazeed...And their dirty and brutal politics is the only one that you love......

Yes, it shows from your retarded interactions.............you and your mqm hate every Pakistani..........just think about it......but, you won`t.........

b/c thinking is NOT allowed in MQM.....just killing innocent Pakistanis (who are NOT mqm) is allowed....

Your MQM is totally based on ehnicity, Mohajir movement, your MQM is totally based on clan-based(mohajir-based)..............and then Mafia based.....

Your MQM is fascist and fundamentalist butchers and still you hate everything else which is Pakistani.....

This is a perfect example of double standards...........
Your altaf is a psychopath killer and still you hate other Pakistanis.......

Sorry, you are contradicting your own self....

MQM is totally clan-based and ethnic based fascist party.......Just think about it.

But, sorry thinking is not allowed in MQM, only butchring innocent Pakistani Karachiits(who are not MQM`s clan) is allowed..............

Supporting MQM for it`s clan-based and ethnic based politics is OK for you.............wawawa

supporting mqm for killing innocent Pakistani Karachiits is OK for you......wawawawa

Re: # 160

{You say ``Karachi generates 70 per cent of the GDP``. I say you`re lying and the entire three provinces combined do not produce as much as Punjab. Where did you get this figure? I thought I had finished beating people down on stats}

Abay chal yahan sey, on the contraire Mr dumbass, u have been exposed thoroughly and proven wrong categorically. So shove off and leave this high emperor drama shrama as they wud say, buzz off.

Tazeen,

I must admit I am thoroughly disappointed firstly by your blind communalism and secondly by your sheer ignorance. I thought you were an informed journalist. Now it appears you`re just another ignorant clown on Chowk of the likes of Salim Chauhan, rf786 and hassauriwala etc.

You say ``Karachi generates 70 per cent of the GDP``. I say you`re lying and the entire three provinces combined do not produce as much as Punjab. Where did you get this figure? I thought I had finished beating people down on stats and now you start ...

Please defend your statement and prove me wrong ...

Re: # 154

where were u all this time? As I was reading your post, title music for Bonanza was getting louder and louder, and yes Iam that old, then again this was a great post...............thanks

Re: # 156

can you contact me via email ... its on my profile

Re: # 156

if i had that much farigh time, i would rather watch Salman Khan strutting his stuff, not the born-again-after-sowing-my-wild-oats-mullah Imran Khan.


PS: Unlike some other people who live off chowk, I have to earn my living by honest work.

Don`t worry Tazeen, Jesus, I mean, Imran Khan will save us all. As zeena says, ``just listen.`` In that case, may as well listen to Gen. Hamid Gul too. ;) And, of course, you too can surf Ytube looking for some more Immy speechs.

Re: # 40

spoken like a true democrat that you are

Re: # 28

the response is late as i was away from chowk.
Yes, it indeed is an acquired taste. After all, where else in Pakistan could I have lived my entire life and still would not have been groped, molested and mauled in some way or the other. I drove from work as late as 3.00 am after putting the newspaper to print and was never hassled, I covered political rallies but was never pinched in the ass in the crowd of 100,000, but every time I go to say Lahore or Faisalabad, I get pinched and get to hear the most X-rated comments. The only time my purse was snatched was in .... Rawalpindii during the govt of Bharee mandate nawaz shareef.

If Karachi is so bad then why is it the single most migrated city in Pakistan, why dont people go and start living in Sialkot or Multan? Everyday, more and more people come to Karachi from NWFP and Punjab, why dont they go to Lahore.

Every Ramazan trainload of beggers come to Karachi to beg from Punjab as we are the most generous people in Pakistan (remember who donated most during the 2005 earthquake, definitely not the punjos from lahore).

Yes, we have bijli breakdowns and that is because of the bijli stealing and land grabbing people who come from the north and wreak havoc with the limited civic amenities. We on the other hand, buy land and build houses and pay property taxes, water taxes and additional taxes on electricity to feed the begger from the North.

Yes, we are the ones who are feeding the poor from Punjab and NWFP who run away from their own lands as the rich and powerful there colonize their own people.

We are the only city with a sizeable and educated middle class, living here is indeed and acquired taste ....


bandar kiya janay adrak ka sawad

Re: # 137

I hate tribal, clan-based and ethnic politics (its so last century) and could never understood the almost god-like power Altaf Hussein wielded (remember how he made his followers stop smoking and how he encouraged boys to marry girls raped by Pathan men in 1980s) over the most educated and metropolitan group of people in Pakistan, until now. This almost pathological hatred emanating from the non-Urdu speaking intelligentsia spearheaded by that moron Imran Khan (thought he can never be classified as intelligent) against every Urdu speaking individual (irrespective of their political affiliations) is the reason why educated and intelligent people chose MQM over every other party. It gave them a sense of belonging to a city, a province where they were refugees, even after 40 years. The way OUR generation claims Karachi to be our city, our parents could never and still don’t own this place despite living all their lives here. I dont see anyone from my generation saying the we are mohajirs, we are Karachiites and most of all, we are NOT apologetic about not beings sons and daughters of the soil; we take pride in making the soil ours, by sheer tenacity, attitude and doggedness. In some way or the other, MQM is responsible for bringing about that change.

It is the audacity with which we Karachiites proclaim that this is our city does hit a raw nerve or two. Maybe the idea that this city belongs to the people who contribute to it rather than the colonists from the North who loot and plunder (Karachi generates 70 per cent of the GDP and what do we get in return ???), is hard to accept for the people who use and abuse the city but never really cared.

NFP was right on money when he said that if MQM is fascist, then all the people who have voted them into assemblies again and again are fascist. Politics of ostracism are passé, but as we, Pakistanis, have never learned from the past mistakes (see what happened when Int. community ostracized Taleban), we will continue to do so.

About the deaths of thousands of Karachiites in 1980s and 1990s, I saw Fauzia Wahab (PPP`s information secretary) on TV the other day and she refused point blank that those deaths were something akin to ethnic cleansing and said that all those who died were terrorists, when the host Mujahid Barelvi asked about the children who died, she first refused to believe that children died but later reluctantly relented and said, there may have been a couple of casualties but it was all ``collateral damage`` for a greater cause. Looks like someone is impressed with good ol` Madeline Albright and her love for the term ``collateral damage.``

God Bless the City of lights and the people (all people) who it belong to.

I think I have ranted enough for the day.

Re: # 151

This man can only take Pakistan back to the stone ages ... thank God he is too stupid to make any real difference in Politics.

Only this man can save Pakistan...Listen (part111)

Only this man can save pakistan..Listen(part11)

Only this man can save pakistan..Listen
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5930487182973309034&q=5930487182973309034

Nadeem F. Paracha: ``If the MQM is fascist, then I am afraid so is at least 70% of Karachi`s population.``

It seems Mr.Paracha, who prides himself on his Marxist roots, has never heard of the Gramscian concept of hegemony, where the dominant class or group `not only justifies and maintains its dominance, but manages to win the active consent of those over whom it rules, by presenting its interests as the interests of all.`

The electoral victory of a certain party does not necessitate its ideological consonance with its electorate. It could just as well mean that it has managed to convince its electorate, mostly through rhetorical inculcation of a false consciousness (call it the persecution complex or paranoia), that it operates to their interests.

The comments of people like cliftonbridge (`Many people in karachi feel that MQM is the only thing stopping karachi from being kandahar``) reinforce this point..The MQM has succeeded in presenting itself to many as the only progressive force in Sindh..even if it does have a heinous terroristic record..I lived in Karachi during the worst years of MQM-related violence and have witnessed the ideologues of the mafia capitalise on the destitution of the structurally oppressed and fuel a tradition of regressive hatred..

One can only hope that the current crisis will serve to shatter, at the very least, the illusion of the `progressiveness` of an ethno-fascist mafia as the only bulwark against radical extremist Islam...(are those really the only alternatives we have left?)

Then again, thats just me..

aquaris #146 {`` Does the CJ of a country, or for that matter, any person of a country, has the right to visit any city of this so called god forsaken country....?? `` ``}

Tahmed32 #143 {``The issue is that on May 12 mqm ghoondas suppressed the right to peaceful assembly and attacked and killed people in the process.``}

Gentlemen,
You are both confusing the real issue. Does any jurisdiction have a right to bar certain people from visiting an area if there presence has the potential for inciting violence and rioting?
Even in the US, the federal government can bar people from entering the US. The Governor of NY State can stop Americans from coming to NY and even the Mayor of NYC can prohibit ``peaceful`` assembly if that assembly is not authorized, people are armed with guns and automatics weapons while assembling ``peacefully.``
The Sindh government had told the CJ not to come to Sindh. The PPI, PPP, ANP, JI demonstrators were anything but ``peaceful,`` as evidenced by their own success in shooting a dozen or more MQM ``ghoondas.``
Please be a bit more rational. Not a glass being broken in Abbotabad or Lahore is no excuse for justifyiing inicindiary speeches in Karachi - it`s a separate city with its own problems.
It`s like saying that there should be no protection for women who get gang-raped in Punjab because after all there are plenty of women in Karachi, and they don`t get gang-raped - except when Punjabi Rangers are in town.

#137

The issue is not , whether some party has a mandate or not.

the issue is more serious, and that is.

`` Does the CJ of a country, or for that matter, any person of a country, has the right to visit any city of this so called god forsaken country....?? ``

If This Party has a electoral mandate, and in their own claims, absolute mandate, then whats the ` Paranoia ``.....??.....??

On a side note, this `` CJ `` has continued to visit every nook and corner of the country,
again a 15 hours marathon to visit `` Abbotabad ``....

and so far, nor a single Glass has been broken, anywhere in the country....!!

Except, in Karachi, where the insecure, paranoid response, of a FASCIST party based of CULT worship, rather then anything else, killing 42 People....!!

...and the worse part is, the paranoid response , want to JUSTIFY the Killings...!!

Amazing, how low can you get...!!...??

``but at least I got to do my usual sincere bak-bak,`` lol.
ana,its always a pleasure.

#139 zeemax: you write ``the very democrats who`re clamoring for democracy now hanged one elected PM and exiled two``

General Zia hanged Bhutto and General Musharraf exiled Nawaz Sharif and Benazir dares not come back to face criminal charges. And in case of Bhutto, it was the religious parties that started the street demonstrations claiming the elections were rigged that gave Zia the pretext to take over. So, religious parties, not ``democrats`` (i.e. the mainstream parties).

you write ``democracy is finished in this country for good. ``

Time will tell. I wont make any counter-predictions since I am not capable of seeing the future so well as you do, but I can say for sure that there are plenty of reasons to be optimistic (the great positive example provided by India next door, the increasing middle class, the major strides made by democracies in the past 100 years).

you write ``Still, they (elected prime ministers) performed to the best of their ability. All were patriotic Pakistanis. ``

Their abilities were obviously limited. And remember my point - even the elected prime ministers in Pakistan demonstrated a lack of respect for democratic behavior that almost rivalled that of the generals. Look at India - Lal Bahadur Shastri was a 5 foot man that Pakistanis used to joke about, compared to the 6 foot something Ayub Khan. Yet, it is Shastri who in retrospect was the giant, and it was Ayub who was the midget.

So, your post does not really provide an answer to the question I had - why are we Pakistanis cursed with self-important individuals who have no respect for democratic norms, no respect for their fellow citizens? Perhaps hamidm or someone else smarter than me knows. All I can do is shake my head and say ``yeh ganga ram ki samajh may na aaai``. :-(

#137 cliftonbridge: ``why dont people accept MQM`s huge democratic mandate in karachi? ``

This is not the issue. The issue is that on May 12 mqm ghoondas suppressed the right to peaceful assembly and attacked and killed people in the process. No democratic mandate is large enough to give any party the right to do this.

You are right that mqm is not alone in its fascism, but far from excusing it, it makes it all the more damaging to all Pakistanis, muhajirs and non-muhajirs. Far more dangerous than the ethnic fascism of mqm are the forces of islamic fascism in Pakistan. Fascism and militarism go hand in hand, and the best antidote to fascism is assertion of the basic rights of all individuals.

Ultimately, all Pakistanis - military and non-military, muhajir and non-muhajir - will be better off if the basic rights to peaceful assembly and free speech and habeas corpus and the right to vote for public officials (including the President) are respected in Pakistan. There are no doubt many members of mqm and of the religious parties who are fine human beings and well-meaning people: but as they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Or as the urdu saying goes: bewaqoof dost say aqalmand dushman behtar hai.

#131 Zeemax {``That`s why I advocate that all it needs for MQM to be completely eliminated is a few RPG`s up their dark behinds``}

Zee,
That is exactly the kind of boasting that causes earthquakes that cause mudslides that cause even the lightest of behinds to turn dark. Allah doesn`t like this kind of talk.. but you already know that being a wonderful momin of a Muslim. :)

Cliftonbridge #137 {``...but if democracy is such a good thing then why dont people accept MQM`s huge democratic mandate in karachi? does that not sound like like hypocracy?
...untill imran finds his balls on that one he is noone to point fingers at Karachi for essentially doing the same thing - telling other people whose values we reject to stuff their criticism, because we arent buying it. ``}

Clifton,
As I always said, Clifton is the heart of Karachi. Way to go, o gallant one!

#122 Kulharee ji, I thought it might be only a joke, but at least I got to do my usual sincere bak-bak, haaN ke naeeN??! And sometimes half-Punjabis are better than some pukka pooray ones. Excluding you, of course. :) (and just in case this should for some silly reason bring out the brickbats, I am a Punjaban, which might bring out the brickbats anyways. Hai hai.)

#136 by tahmed32,

tahmed, the answer is simple, and no rocket science. It is what you`ve heard before many times. Democracy needs time to mature. Once derailed, it`s very tough to put back on track. Elected PMs are not perfect, no one is, but they can be voted out. Generals cannot be voted out. They have to be pushed out at great cost to the country.

That`s the irony which noone understood and the very democrats who`re clamoring for democracy now hanged one elected PM and exiled two. No one is saying they didn`t have flaws, but you also need to take into account under what circumstances they survived and under what pressures and for how long compared with the military in the entire history of this country. Still, they performed to the best of their ability. All were patriotic Pakistanis.

Now as it stands, again mark my words my friend, democracy is finished in this country for good. Now there`ll be something else which I can`t exactly identify right now. Maybe another sham parliament for a little while, maybe civil war and anarchy for a while, but after that, there will be an Islamic revolution. There`s just no other way.

Rgds

Re: # 137
Cliffy way to go :)

tahmed ....i dont support the concept of karachi belonging only to urdu speakers or that non MQM supporters have no right to visit ...but if democracy is such a good thing then why dont people accept MQM`s huge democratic mandate in karachi? does that not sound like like hypocracy?
The power of the MQM is a diff. thing to understand unless you are willing to be honest about the prospects of karachi without the MQM ....everyone who favors ethnic misogynist and antisecular ideals has found their whipping boy which only cements support for this party in secular non misogynist (by comparison) cosmopolitan karachi (comparatively) ...it doesnt help that most people attacking the MQM happens to be a fundo/woman/urdu speaking haters. The argument of you are with the terrorists or with us make people in karachi say o.k then in that case we are with the secular terrorists not with the fundo/urdu speaker haters. Is that so diff. to understand?
Many people in karachi feel that MQM is the only thing stopping karachi from being kandahar ....we dont want to live in kandahar. We`ll take karachi with all its madness and violence over that anyday. The people have spoken, like a million times on this one.
Its strange that people who support tribal jirga`s in the NWFP cant accept the mandate of karachi`s democratically elected govt. Try going into NWFP and speaking against their jirga`s, untill imran finds his balls on that one he is noone to point fingers at Karachi for essentially doing the same thing - telling other people whose values we reject to stuff their criticism, because we arent buying it.

Zeemax #134 you write you gentlemen have always hated democratically elected premiers and never given democracy a chance by constant nitpicking on any warts they may have had

Nawaz Sharif may have been elected democratically, but he proved unable of understanding the fundamental importance of democratic checks and balances and became arrogant and started thinking of himself as some kind of a king. And so he, among other things, he had a confrontation with the Chief Justice Supreme Court that was as damaging to Pakistan as Musharraf`s confrontation.

Nawaz Sharif was like the fool who uses a saw to cut of the very branch he is sitting on - namely, democratic institutions.

And that is why his removal was welcomed. If Musharraf had then done what he promised he would do, namely step aside and permit elections, he would have gone down in history as a truly great man.

Instead, Musharraf has fallen into the same trap as Nawaz Sharif - he has let power get to his head. And so is destined to go down in history as another one in a succession of selfish rulers in Pakistan.

The question to ask is: Is it mere coincidence that in Pakistan we have had a succession of dysfunctional leaders? or is the problem rooted in our culture (i.e. the ``VIP Complex``, glorification of ``warrior kings``) or the result of an unfortunate wrong turn that was taken early in our history when the Constitent Assembly was dissolved or when Ayub did the first military coup, or the result of the special status given to the military in Pakistan as a result of the confrontation with India. I dont know what the answer is.

Since you are so smart that you could tell from day 1 what the rest of us could not see, perhaps yo know the answer to the above question.

Not to be all gloom and doom: I think that Pakistani people have shown a level of courage and spirit that gives one hope that one day, hopefully this time around, they will finally break this stranglehold of dictators and become a normal, civilized country. Pakistani people deserve nothing less that people in any other country in the world, be it the US or UK or India.

Why are you so full of yourself?

``The social and political dynamics of Karachi can never be understood with certain political constants that make up the political theories applied in the understanding of the politics of the rest of Pakistan... It is just a party that came about at a time of great ethnic paranoia characterised by a persecution complex that was ripe during the Zia era. ``

Do you really talk like that in person? What a loser.

#133 by tahmed32,

I wish you would go back to October 1999 and read the interacts on `He had No Choice` by Bilal Musharraf. Many still here were cheering the military coup at that time while I was saying it was a great setback and musharraf would eventually be dragged in the streets. Other than me as I recall, there was just a `single` interactor who agreed with me amongst more than 1200 interacts and that was someone called `RoohiAD` who was shouting ``Go Mutarraf Go.``

It was all so predictable but you gentlemen have always hated democratically elected premiers and never given democracy a chance by constant nitpicking on any warts they may have had, .. so ... time to contemplate on your follies.

As it stands, the largest cable news network in Pakistan i.e. GEO News has been shut down just for broadcasting the CJ seminar in the Supreme Court building where army was criticised.

and of course, the all important right to vote for the head of state was taken away 8 years ago. History will not forgive or forget this outrage.

#130 in other words, per dawn, `` The ordinance introduced on Monday gives the Pakistan Electronic Media Regulatory Authority (PEMRA) power to revoke a broadcaster`s license without referring the case to a complaints council``

Another shameful step towards stealing the basic rights of all Pakistanis so musharraf can cling to power for yet another ``five more years``. The right of peaceful assembly was taken away in the May 12 bloodbath, and the rights of free speech and of a free press are now readily taken away.

#129 by NothingNess,

Great post. Thanks.

That`s why I advocate that all it needs for MQM to be completely eliminated is a few RPG`s up their dark behinds. If the most underprivileged and deprived area like Lyari in Karachi is not under some `persecution complex`, these goondas of MQM need to be thrown in the Lyari nadi.

Musharraf promulgates PEMRA amended ordinance 2007

ISLAMABAD: President General Pervez Musharraf on Monday promulgated the amended Pakistan Electronic Media Regulatory Authority (PEMRA) ordinance 2007.

Under the amended PEMRA Ordinance 2007, the PEMRA has been given powers to seal any building where it believes the illegal transmission is aired.

The PEMRA also has the power to cancel the license of any TV channel and can forfeit the broadcasting equipment for the said reason.

The Ordinance called the Pakistan Electronic Media Regulatory Authority (Amendment) Ordinance, 2007, shall come into force at once.

Following is the text of the Ordinance: Ordinance No. XXVI of 2007. An ORDINANCE, to further amend the Pakistan Electronic Media Regulatory Authority Ordinance, 2002.

WHEREAS it is expedient to further to amend the Pakistan Media Regulatory Authority Ordinance, 2002 (XIII of 2002), for the purposes here in after appearing; AND WHEREAS the National Assembly is not in session and circumstances exist which render it necessary to take immediate action; NOW, THEREFORE, in the exercise of the powers conferred by clause (1) of Article 89 of the Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, the President is pleased to make and promulgate the following Ordinance:-1. Short title, extent and commencement:

(1) This Ordinance may be called the Pakistan Electronic Media Regulatory Authority (Amendment) Ordinance, 2007. (2) It shall come into force at once.

2. Amendment of section 2, Ordinance XIII of 2002:- In the Pakistan Electronic Media Regulatory Authority Ordinance, 2002 (XIII of 2002),Hereunder referred to as the said Ordinance, in section 2,- (a) in clause (ha) for the letters ``DTH`` the letters and commas ``DTH, IPTV, Mobile TV`` shall be substituted; and (b) for clause (j) the following shall be substituted, namely:- (j)-- ``Frequency`` means the frequency of the electromagnetic waves measured in Hertz and used for transmission;``.

3. Amendment of section 4, Ordinance XIII of 2002.- In the said Ordinance,in section 4, sub-section (3) shall be omitted.
4. Amendment of section 20, Ordinance XIII of 2002.- In the said Ordinance, in section 20, in clause (d), after the word ``rules`` the words ``and regulations`` shall be inserted.
5. Amendment of section 23, Ordinance XIII of 2002. In the said Ordinance, in section 23, in sub-section (2) in the proviso, for the word ``fare`` the word ``Fair`` shall be substituted.
6. Amendment of Section 25, Ordinance XIII of 2002.- In the said Ordinance ,in section 25, in claus e(d), after the word ``organization`` the words`` including any foreign non-governmental organization`` shall be added.
7. Amendment of section 27, Ordinance XIII of 2002.- In the said Ordinance ,in section 27,- (a) for the word ``therefore,`` the word ``there for`` shall be substituted; and (b) after the word ``operator`` the words ``or owner`` shall be inserted.

7. Amendment of section 28, Ordinance XIII of 2002.- In the said Ordinance,in section 28, in the marginal note, of the section for the word ``of`` the word``by`` shall be substituted.

9. Amendment of section 29, Ordinance XIII of 2002,- In the said Ordinance,in section 29,- (a) in sub-section (5), the proviso, for the full stop, at the end, a colon shall be substituted and thereafter the following further proviso shall be added, namely:- ``Provided further that he Authority or the Chairman may seize a broadcast or distribution service equipment or seal the premises which is operating illegally or in contravention of orders passed under section 30.``; and (b) in sub-section (6), for the word ``one`` a word ``ten`` shall be substituted.

10. Amendment of section 30, Ordinance XIII of 2002, - In the said Ordinance, in section 30, - (a) in sub section (1), (i) in clause (b), for the colon, at the end, a full stop shall be substituted; and (ii) the proviso shall be omitted, (b) in sub-section (3) the comma and word ``, suspended`` shall be omitted; and (c) after sub-section (3) following new sub-section shall be added, namely: -``(4) License of a broadcast media may be suspended on any of the grounds specified in sub-section (1), by a duly constituted committee comprising members of the Authority.``


11. Insertion of section 39A, Ordinance XIII of 2002: In the saidO rdinance, after section 39, the following new section shall be inserted, namely: ``39A. Power of the Authority to make regulations:” The Authority may by notification in the official Gazette, make regulations, not inconsistent with this Ordinance and the rules made there under, to provide for all matters for which provisions is necessary or expedient for carrying out the purpose of this Ordinance.``

This is very disappointing coming from someone who is considered to have acute observation, a sense of history and engagement with socio-political realities of the city.

There is something drearily reactive about always trying to prove that the opposite of what everyone else thinks is really correct. It’s an elitist gesture of trumpeting one`s own independence from the (allegedly) common opinions. But at the same time, it reveals a morbid dependence upon the very majority that one pretends to scorn.

NFP is typically, and wilfully, perverse in his analysis and somewhat praise of MQM. Though everyone else from the Left to the Right (if these distinctions are even applicable in Pakistani politics) has denounced the 12 May events as a fascist spectacle. NFP sees this as a continuation or worse a struggle of one ethnic group over another for its survival.

To be sure the article suggests that the current events can be trace back to the very origin of MQM, why it was founded and the locus of its politics. There is a major logical error in the assumption that the current practices or actions of individuals or groups can be trace back to their origin. However something like an ideology originated it always goes under constant change, discontinuities, incorporations, and the `turf` never remains the same; there is always a new playing field, particularly in a city as dynamic as Karachi. Thus there cannot be a casual relation between May 1989 and May 2007.

It is true that IJT was the first student wing of a political party to use guns in academic institutions in Karachi and APMSO was born as a reaction to this kind of fascist and authoritative politics. But less than a decade after its creation MQM virtually had (it still does) the whole city under their control, unchallenged and unrestraint by any ethnic group or religious party. There was no ethnic paranoia, MQM single handedly ruled the city and it had absolute control.

What Atlaf Hussain managed to do effectively was to bring that breed of student politics started by IJT and later adopted by everyone into mainstream politics (remember MQM is one of those political parties which grew out of its student wing (AMPSO) and not the other way around). Needless to say that it had anything to do with ideology (secular/liberal) or principles but everything to do with maintaining domination through every authoritative means available. The result is the politics of intimidation and fear, note how Altaf Hussain is never satirized or mimicked in any of the comedy shows in this supposedly liberal and `free` media and plethora of TV-channels in Pakistan.

The point (imho) underlying this whole account is that we are better off with fascism by/of middle-class, `secular and liberal gun-toting thugs, than Islamic/punjabi/pushtoon religious/ethnic fascism, because `the socio and political dynamics of Karachi` is such that it will always breed paranoia characterised by a persecution complex. `It will always have a violent streak if and when it sees a situation where it finds its turf being attacked` by its rival. Interestingly this whole point undermines the position that you cannot understand the socio-political makeup of Karachi in terms of `political constants`.

Having lived in Liyari (Karachi) all my life and witnessed the whole phenomenon and its effects on the city, I am happy to be on the other side of the fence, to be with the 30%, because the last time I checked some of the 70% supporters of MQM voted for MMA in some of the strong MQM constituencies in 2003 (i.e. Burns Road/Saddar). So may be you are right better to have secular fascism than Islamic fascism. I would on the other hand, like your father go on and vote for PPP again.

#127 by Salim_Chauhan,

Doesn`t sound as good as `Muttervia`. Hey think about it. People may even think you`re somewhere in East Europe ... :)

#125 Zeemax {``Salim_Chauhan,
Salim Bhai, what`re you going to call your new republic? My suggestion is Muttervia !``}

Zee,
No - I think the best name would be ``Anti-Paindoostan.`` :)

Hamidm,

Hmmm ... kaneezes ... yes I support that too. Mutta`s would be too much hassle ... you know lots of reciting of mumbo-jumbo and paperwork I guess, besides there`ll be plenty of the US trained apostasias to choose from :)

Salim_Chauhan,

Salim Bhai, what`re you going to call your new republic? My suggestion is Muttervia !

#101 by rf786 on June 3, 2007 10:55am PT
Re: # 99

Salim,

During the reign of Peter the Great, any Russian nobleman who chose to wear a beard had to pay a special beard tax. Add this to your list of solutions.

ALSO

#104 by hamidm2 on June 3, 2007 11:44am PT
Re: # 99

salim mian,

........ i agree with your brilliant solution, except for one point - the province of potohar should be allowed to make up 50% of the army ........ there is nothing else to do over here - ...all the smart people migrated to india in `47 and the remaining are dumber than their jackasses, and the women have moustaches .......... ``}

Dear Bishmillah Bhai and Hamidum Sahib,
Out of respect for both of your hairy concerns (bearded men and mustachioed women), I have decided to modify my suggested SOLUTION by adding the following:

No Pakistani citizen will be allowed to display ANY facial hair, with the exception of eyebrows and acceptable nasal overflow, unless a predetermined beard and mustache tax has been duly paid. The only exception to this rule will be that Sikh men will be allowed to display their beards as long as they state their height correctly on all government forms without including the turban. Sikh women will be expected to abide by the sans mustache law.

Owing to the lack of anything to do in Potohar, all mules, donkeys, and elephants of the Pakistani cavalry will be replaced by Potohari men, who will at no time constitute more than 50% of such composition.

HAPPY?

its quite sad..nadeem f. paracha`s writings of late have turned into little more than frustrated tirades against what he sees as religious obscurantism..little more than what his `liberal` counterparts that he berated so often are doing..
in his impassioned zeal against all forms of religiousity, he even betrays his own leftist roots, displaying no hint of an unbiased structuralist analysis..


``These guys,`` I tell my father, ``they still don`t know what Karachi is about.``

There is not much, Mr.Paracha, to understand about cold-blooded murder...regardless of whatever pre-dated `persecution complex` it was triggered by..

Re: # 112

My dear Ana, that was a joke for gods sake. Nadeem is amongst my most favorite Chowkie writers, even though he is only half-Punjabi.

While the corrupt ``leaders`` make powersharing deals ....

Bhutto, in Exile, Talks of Return to Pakistan - New York Times

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan, June 3 — Former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto is stirring up Pakistani politics by quietly talking through intermediaries about a power-sharing deal with the president, Gen. Pervez Musharraf, and suggesting in an interview that she could return to Pakistan before the end of the year.

...the Pakistani people hope for freedom....

As TV Coverage Feeds Protests, Musharraf Reacts - Washington Post

Excerpt:
Every day, Taj Mohammed Abbasi wheels his cart through dusty streets, selling the oranges, guavas and litchis that are the pride of this rural outpost in the shadow of the Himalayan foothills.

But what he`s seen recently on television motivated him this weekend to take to the streets for a different reason: to join a movement with the audacious goal of ousting the military-led government and restoring democracy to Pakistan.

``Watching television, I have become very angry,`` said Abbasi, 33, swatting flies from his cart. ``I am not a political person. I have not been to a lot of rallies. But this time, definitely, I am going.``

Re: # 102
Kaal,I agree that the people you mentined ``salim bro, hamidm2 sahib, zeemax, HP, rf786 `` are really intelligent people(I can guess that by looking at their posts).I will be a fool to doubt their intelligence.I was just expressing my opinion based on our expereinces in India.India suffers from same ills as Pakistan ,but somehow we managed survive because of 1)Strong institutions and 2)Few good people in postion of power.

Thats exactly what Pakistan needs-1)Strong institutions and 2)Few good people in postion of power(this is the MINIMUM requirement)


(Note:This is not a lecture/advice ..just a wish)

Anyway...good advice/wish(however simple and well known) is better than abuses.

Re: # 118

HP

(The army or even the state of Pakistan has no right to indiscriminately attack them. )

Nor does any individual or group of people reserve the right to violate state laws, attack state property, kill army personnel and give sanctaury to foreign terrorists. What u r doing is dancing to the popular pied pipers of this world that include Gen Hameed Gul and his pet poodle Imran Khan. Instead of deploring acts of terrorism by these fringe groups Imran Khan et el have castigated the govt simply because it upsets their local vote bank and plays on anti-western sentiment. Had Mr Khan been a man of integrity he would have condmend the suicide attacks on Pak army (Dargai), Interior Minister (Charsadda), Police officials (Peshawer) and numerous other acts of barbarism that includes beheadings video taped, kidnapping of Chinese engineers, killing of opponents etc etc. Everyday we hear of some new atrocity committed by these crazy fundos, yet it is sweeped under the carpet either under the label of being religious or anti-west, sheer hypocrisy.

ACLU is a wrong analogy simply because these people (wana) have never been treated as anything less nor have they been subjected to ethnic or religious discrimination, on the contrary they have been loyal subjects who were well rewarded during the Afghan jihad and have become accustomed to a fairly prosperous and militant lifestyle. What u forget, this Govt did try to reach some sort of amicable solution with the tribes, but money exchanged hands that led to this slippery slope. Iam not absolving the Govt of its duty to defend its citizens, but simply pointing out the obvious facts that tend to be ignored.

Imran Khan is a political opportnunist with no morals, this can be determined by his complete subservience to the religious right which gave him a drubbing back in 1997 when Masjid louspeakers were used to denounce his playboy lifestyle and jewish relations. Since then IMran Khan has recognized the power Maulvi holds on Pak politics and has chosen to live to fight another day, this is called political opportunism, like it or not.

Finally, HP u have empathy for the wana tribals but yet express no such human instincts for the mutarwas of Karachi/Hyderabad, nice very nice.

#117 by rf786

“Imran Khan has and continues to oppose the operation in Wana where he defends these murderers as freedom fighters and has never condemned or opposed the use of force by these gun-totting killers called taliban.”

I guess it is kind of hard for you to grasp the finer point here.

Just think about this: people living in Wana are Pakistani citizens and despite their political support of the worst of the worst Taliban, they still deserve a better deal. The army or even the state of Pakistan has no right to indiscriminately attack them.

Now this may be a little far fetched analogy but still somewhat pertinent to note that the ACLU fights to defend the right of sometime clearly racist and bigot groups in the US, in an attempt to defend the constitutional right of every group in the US.

I opposed any kind of Talbinization effort in Pakistan but I am NOT willing to cede to the army the right to decide who it should bomb and who it should not.

Before may 12th, I did not read all of Imran’s statement but whatever I read, appeared to show to me that he was not supporting the talibanism widespread in the tribal belt but Imran was challenging the government to not to mistreat Pakistani citizens without going thru the due course of law.

PS. I still like to see Imran`s statements supporting Taliban.

Re: # 115

{Imran Khan was the only national level politician who was vehemently against the military operation in FATA and had vociferously opposed it on every forum. This is why he is the second most popular after Fazl-Ur-Rehman in FATA even though he is not a Pushtoon, and which is why after the altaphi threats to him the tribal Jirga of the Khyber Agency has vowed to protect him with their own armed guard.}

Another case of verbal diarrhea, mental mastrubation that can only produce non-sensical garbage.

Abay Kammee zaath, since that is the only language u r used to,
U have only proved my point, Imran Khan has and continues to oppose the operation in Wana where he defends these murderers as freedom fighters and has never condemned or opposed the use of force by these gun-totting killers called taliban. So what is your point, chuttyia?

Re: # 114

{Muttarwites have 40% of Sindh jobs quota while being 25% of population. How much more do you want eh? 100%?}

Another bout of inflammatory verbal diarrhea. Chronic inflammatory verbal diarrhea can be caused by continued deception, profanities, wahabism and poonzaabi chauvinism.

#106 by rf786 re 105 faheem101

.... Had Imran Khan Niazi any shred of decency, courage and integrity he would have first looked into his own backyard where hundreds (700) of Pak soldiers have been killed by militants ...

I never cease to be amazed by the sheer ignorance of this clown ... or perhaps it is intentionally telling lies to other people who may not be completely aware of the details of Pakistan politics.

Imran Khan was the only national level politician who was vehemently against the military operation in FATA and had vociferously opposed it on every forum. This is why he is the second most popular after Fazl-Ur-Rehman in FATA even though he is not a Pushtoon, and which is why after the altaphi threats to him the tribal Jirga of the Khyber Agency has vowed to protect him with their own armed guard.

Sheesh ... of all the !@#$%^ !

#94 by Salim_Chauhan

...We are the products of the persecution we suffer from....

What nonsense !!! Muttarwites have 40% of Sindh jobs quota while being 25% of population. How much more do you want eh? 100%?

#111 cliftonbridge: Imran Khan blew their lid by openly challenging the implicit message of May 12 from mqm/musharraf that Pakistanis now need their permission to enter Karachi.

Nadeem,

This was a good read, thank you for sharing your thoughts.

Unlike Kulharee (who because I`ve been away from Chowk for so long, I can`t readily recognize between ironic and sincere), I see no reason to condole you being half-nonPunjabi, because I think it is great that you have not identified yourself as one or the other but both. Sometimes those born of parents with different ethnicities do tend to emphasize one over the other, but I don`t recall you ever doing that. At first I hesitated while reading ``Even though I am Punjabi on my father`s side`` because at first read it sounded apologetic, but you emphasize being part of a city more than an ethnic group, which is less than what quite a few others have done over the years.

Karachi was always the place I wished I could live. I loved Lahore, but I wished I could live in Karachi because it was on the coast, from what i heard, it sounded as if it was more cosmopolitan. Of course in Lahore, I saw more Punjabis than anyone else, but Karachi was different, to me as a child, more ethnicities. And I never thought that was a bad thing. I still don`t, years later. But of course I never knew what Karachi is all about, and I still don`t. I hope that Karachiites can get beyond the blame game and the name-calling and the violence, but first some of them have to get over their ethnic/religious chest-thumping (and/or hatred) as well as their fear and paranoia, and lust for power (the spoken part from Rasputin is running through my mind!!!) and from what I heard and read about a few weeks ago, that is going to be more than a herculean task. And I don`t think that is never going to be possible, but then sometimes I am overtaken by naive optimism. :)

how has he blown that cover? he got forbidden to visit karachi :) he is going to england not karachi for his political opportunism :)

#109 Imran Khan has demonstrated honesty and courage that the religious parties, BB and Nawaz Sharif have failed to do. The latter have merely tagged along with the CJP in his historic stand against military dictatorship - the former has taken the initiative when he blew the lid off mqm/musharraf`s claim that Karachi was their property and not a Pakistani city where Pakistanis dont need their bloody permission to enter.

Well, my discussion is not just focused on Imran Khan, its focused on what Imran Khan is trying to do and that includes trying to nab a criminal known as Altaf Hussain

Re: # 107

Never said that or implied such, therefore it is irrelevant from our discussion that is focused on a person called Imran Khan, the courageous (LOL).

And Altaf Hussain has been honest, and has no political oppurtunism?

*105faheem101

{The only thing I applaud Imran for is his courage to go and take on Altaf (a criminal) in the courts of England.}

Imran Khan Niazi is an opportunists with no political vision or maturity, courage u talk about is nothing but political opportunism.

Had Imran Khan Niazi any shred of decency, courage and integrity he would have first looked into his own backyard where hundreds (700) of Pak soldiers have been killed by militants who threaten every citizen of Pakistan. Not once has he condemned this carnage on the contrary he is defending these mass murderers as freedom fighters.

Courageous is the man who can be honest with himself and then others, Imran Khan has never been honest with himself or anyone else, his story is one of self aggrandizement thus the ONE man party.

Re: # 88

Salim Sahib, my beef is not with Musharraf. I dont know why you think I am against him, but I just stated the bitter reality, his regime is coming to an end now. Everyone hates him, its very apparent and denying that is just arrogance. And yes, I am no fan of BB, Nawaz or any other policitians you brought up. The only thing I applaud Imran for is his courage to go and take on Altaf (a criminal) in the courts of England.

And yes, I do disagree with you, or economy is still in the shitters and nothing close to being good. But unlike you I wont just play the blame game on a few select people. I blame everyone, including the present regime. They failed and its time for them to get out.

Re: # 99

salim mian,

........ i agree with your brilliant solution, except for one point - the province of potohar should be allowed to make up 50% of the army ........ there is nothing else to do over here - the land is devasted by erosion, there is no water, no industry, all the smart people migrated to india in `47 and the remaining are dumber than their jackasses, and the women have moustaches ..........

....... thank you for your kind consideration

Peace is a great idea. Its worth pointing out that not a single country on the planet has irradicated crime or hatred these are sadly parts of human nature and they just get played out differently in different areas.
The real crime in pakistan is poverty lawlessness misogyny and injustice. Addressing those will address everything else. Recently scotland debated on whether to leave the UK or not...its interesting how their complaints sound just like the NWFP`s or karachi`s, but scotland will not cecede because in the end history counts for less than economics.
For a country only 50 years old pakistan has made some great strides and sadly continued to make a bunch of blunders. We need to work it out thats clear. Just dont expect an answer in one generation, or likely in our lifetimes.
Its worth pointing out that after the 911 attacks loads of americans felt that having attacks in jew populated fag and immigrant loving new york was actually no big deal. Does that make the US a failed country?

Prajiv

Please, consider this a friendly question, because it is NOT meant to run anything you have said down.

Do you think that salim bro, hamidm2 sahib, zeemax, HP, rf786 and many others are not intelligent enough to understand the points you are making? Do we take Pakistanis - no matter how obviously brilliant in every way - as dumb and stupid individuals or what?!!

[Sorry, this question could be asked of any number of Indians insulting Pakistanis by offering trivia for goodly advice when we ourselves can`t live with one another. You just happened to be around at the wrong time! :)]

Re: # 99

Salim,

During the reign of Peter the Great, any Russian nobleman who chose to wear a beard had to pay a special beard tax. Add this to your list of solutions.

#99, Left out Hindus, Jews, and Sikhs (honest mistake):)

``There will be equal rights for women, men, Muslims, non-Muslims, Shias, Sunnis, Ahmedis, Christians, Hindus, Sikhs, and Jews.

SOLUTION:

Pakistan be declared a secular democratic federation of autonomous provinces
There will be fourteen provinces (Punjab/4, Sindh/3, NWFP/3, Baluchistan/2, J&K, and NA)
No province will have a population greater than 20 million
The official and national language will be English
There will be equal rights for women, men, Muslims, non-Muslims, Shias, Sunnis, Ahmedis, Christians
There will be NO religion in politics and no politics in religion
Each province will have its own police force
No province will have a majority in the national armed forces
Regardless of the cause, no government can be in power for more than two months without conducting free, fair, and democratic elections to be validated by the UN

#97 hamidum2 {````I am beyond anger - I am now in solution mode. `` ........ good! ........ let`s do it ........ i am right behind you ! ``}

Hamidum Sahib,
If you don`t mind, will you please walk with me instead of behind me. Nothing personal, but I have heard of your Pathan background, and I just feel more comfortable if you walk WITH me. Thank you.

Re: # 96

salim mian,

``I am beyond anger - I am now in solution mode. `` ........ good! ........ let`s do it ........ i am right behind you !

#95 prajiv {``If a country consists of more than one community and you don`t want to break the country then you should develop some machanism to live peacefully toga