India-Iran Ties

Just to clarify some factual and historical issues raised by a few - like haideri and faruk.

Shias form over 20% of India`s Muslims which is a large amount considering that in Pakistan they are only 15% and overall in the Muslim world too they form 15% of the total Muslim population.

Regarding the `historical ties` between India`s Shias and Iran please read up on the extremely close ties between the South Indian Sultanates - like Bahmani, Golconda and others -with the Persian empires. Many of these rulers were Shia and very often the Persian King intervened on their behalf with whoever was the North Indian Muslim ruler of the time, whether the Khaljis, Tughlaqs, Lodhis or the Mughals. Also the entire dynasty of Oudh (Awadh) was Shia and they had close ties with the Persian emperors. Remember whenever there was a decline in power of the main ruling dynasty or empire numerous small kingdoms came up and they all appealed to other rulers/empires to help them.

Re: # 17

chennai,

It sounds like wishful thinking on your part but ground realities are quite different on both sides of the border. We drawing-room scholars can deduce our own conclusions but realty is there to stay for quite a long time. The abstraction in my comment is intentional :)

Thanks,

haideri

Re:#11 by Salim_Chauhan

Salim, your interact sums up the dismal state of affairs in Pakistan. Muslims in India, who some years ago were envious of their relatives in Pakistan are today happy with their choice of having stayed back in India and living in a democracy rather than being called ``refugees`` had they gone to Pakistan.

Strategic thinking in India is provided by some cool dudes, not all in Govt. service and inclusive of some of Islam`s most renowned scholars from the Deobandh stream.

I guess you know who I mean...........

Rest later.

#8, arjun you cannopt be more wrong re: Neocons and Iran. According to Neo-Con Realpolitik, Iran is a natural ally and is part of the crescent (no shit) of INdia, IRan, Turkey and Israel containing Wahabi Sunni Islam. It is the natural order of things and the only thing standing in the way of this is the Ahmedenijad types in Iran who are the last remnants of the Islamic Revolution generation...sooner or late they will lose to the young people of Iran. Time is simply not on their side.

Re: # 12

Former Persian mercenaries

#12 A Lie {``whats Kizilbash?``}

A big party in Kizl`s house.

Manto is Agha Khani .....????

whats Kizilbash?

#9 chennai {``India would be much better off maintining and building a strategic relationship with Iran & Afghanistan.``}

Chennai,
It appears that some very cool and rational strategic thinkers are formulating Indian policies. I have always advocated that India adopt the role of a protector of moderate Islam. India has the second largest Muslim population in the world and is home to some of Islam`s better accomplishments - Ajmer, Lucknow, Taj Mahal, Delhi, Hyderabad, etc..

By categorizing Pakistan as the hotbed of Sunni Wahaboobi extremism and home to JeM, JI, JUI, Tally Ban, Alkayda, and other nefarious outfits, India can gain the sympathy and friendship of BOTH Shiites and moderate Muslims like Turks, the Central Asian ``Stans,`` Tunisia, and much of Africa. The trick is to present Pakistan as a second tier client of the US (through Soodi Arabia) and a first tier puppet in the war on terrorism. Pakistan is too deeply mired in its own internal ethnic fratricide to pay any attention to strategy. Sad, but all of this is true.

Re: # 6

Hi,

``Iran opened its Consulates in places where there`s a sizable Shia community. For example Iran is the first country to open its Consulate in Hyderabad. The concern of Iran is the Irani settlers, local Shia population and the Persian script that was being used there.``

Most of the Irani settlers came to Hyderabad after the Shah`s downfall. This is more of a recent event. Opening couple of “Khana-i-Furhang” does not necessary mean historic relations. Persian history is my “Ghar kee Laundee”…:)

Thanks,

haideri

India would be much better off maintining and building a strategic relationship with Iran & Afghanistan.

Traditionally we have had strong ties with these two countries and if US analysts are to be believed, these two countries would probably be our neighbours by 2012.

I was in Hyderabad a few days ago and had gone to Hotel Paradise for lunch. The place was packed with foreigners of whom there was a large Iranian contingent, enjoying Hyderabadi Biryani & Nihari........

The pipeline isn`t a good idea. The neocon chutiyas are going to start something with iran before dubya goes back to crawford for good..you just watch...hitlery and barry hussein will get on the bomb iran bandwagon so fast it`ll make your head spin...they`ll couch in some salable terms like limited tactical operations or some shit like that..which is code for air strikes...

Aparna

The links between ancient India and Persia are millenia old not just centuries and predate Islam. Also a lot of what is Pakistan now was once part of the Persian empire.

Many Indian scholars emphasize the need for India to engage with neighbors with whom one has historic ties and economic potential in order to balance Eurocentrism or a Westward orientation. Relations with Iran fits these demands for an Indian foreign policy that is not subservient to western nations.

Well said, i hope the IPI thing goes through and India tells the US where to go.

#1 by haideri on May 30, 2007 1:56pm PT
``Shia minority has historically maintained very close links with Iran``

Aparna, where are you getting your facts from? The above is not true at all.

Dear Haidari,

Iran opened its Consulates in places where there`s a sizable Shia community. For example Iran is the first country to open its Consulate in Hyderabad. The concern of Iran is the Irani settlers, local Shia population and the Persian script that was being used there.

So it`s not unusual abt this practice of Iran maintaning relations with Shias or India opening Indian Consulates, in say a place where there are sizable Indian community.

{``Whenever India and Persia felt threatened by the far off Ottomans or other rulers they would come together .... Though the major Muslim empires in India were led by Sunni Muslims many of the smaller kingdoms in south India were either led by Shia kings or had very close ties to Persia.
...Strategically, the worsening crisis in Afghanistan has brought India and Iran closer. During the 1990s both India and Iran supported different factions of the anti-Taliban Northern Alliance as they feared a Pakistan-based Sunni-Pashtun regime in Afghanistan.

India and Iran also share worries over the rise in Pakistan of extremist Sunni radical groups, often splinter groups or allies of the Taliban and the Al Qaeda. .``}

Aparna,
Very good article about a very important subject. Of course, Pakistanis have never been accused of strategic thinking - because frankly, Pakistan, in typical Paindoo fashion, usually pulls its strategy du jour out of its ass.

You are right about the connection between the Shia kingdoms of the Deccan and Safavid Iran. In fact, it was this alliance that irritated Aurangzeb so much that he invaded Bijapur, Goldconda, and Ahmadnagar - a victory that resulted in the decline of the Mughal Empire. One minor connection, Aparna. The Ottomans and Mughals were close allies - both being Sunni and of Turkic origins. In fact, the Ottomans sent a naval armada to defeat the Portuguese who were preying on Mughal transports to Arabia for the Haj. Actually, at that time, Safavid Iran felt sandwiched between the two Sunni empires.

You are right about the strong bond between Iran and India`s Shia community - especially in Lucknow. I have seen Iranian tourists in Lucknow and they told me that Lucknow ranks at the top of Iranian Shia itineraries outside Iran after the ones in Iraq.

Zina Owl Hack ruined Pakistan`s relationship with Iran, which had reached its zenith under the Shah. Due to his extremist Sunni views, this military dictator became Wahaboobi Soodi Arabia`s pawn at the expense of Pakistani Shias and the friendship with Iran. Pakistan, under Zina Owl Hack, following Soodi Arabia`s petrodollar-driven insistence, basically supported the Iraq and the Gulf Arab states against Iran.

What happens with Pakistan playing US puppet and India playing the Iranian card to counter Pakistan`s Soodi connection will be an interesting addition to the ``Great Game.``

Thanks for writing about this interesting development.

Aparna,
I agree with haideri that you are wrong about “India has a large Shia minority and this Shia minority has historically maintained very close links with Iran.”

Regards,

Faruk

Re: # 2

GT, please don`t confuse Agha Khaniz with mainstream Shiaz from Iran...they are two different beasts supported by two different ideologies and socio/political system. Agha Khaniz are big into charity but mainstream Shiaz are not. Ethnically I am Kizilbash and know quite a bit about that part of the world.

Thanks,

haideri

Re: # 1 by haideri:

Haideri,

This has nothing to do with the article but pertains to your querry. I remember reading somewhere (I shall try to get the reference if I can) that Iranian charities (and this is big time in Iran, just google) are to a significant extent funded by money comming from India and Pakistan! This is not a new phenomenon. There is historical evidence of funding from India (Awadh) for restoration work in Karbalah (now in Iraq). The point that I am trying to make is that sections of the Shia community are very much into charity and their outreach is global. So, yes, though common Abdul may not know how to spell Iran - there are community links.

``Shia minority has historically maintained very close links with Iran``

Aparna, where are you getting your facts from? The above is not true at all.

haideri