Letter from Pakistan

#21 by Mantolives on June 27, 2007 3:26am PT


Remember democracy means... rule of all the people


I`ll have to call BS on that....democracy doesn`t mean you only do things that everyone agrees on....It is, to a large extent, the will of the majority....if the majority vote one way, there`s a good chance the policies of the elected government will go that way...

If the majority of brits reject sharia then the will of the pakislamofascists shouldn`t matter....

masadi-college-peon: mian, tujhe samosay laynay bhejja thha, aur tu gaaliaN bak raha hai.

EastmWest, Ejaz Haroon,

I am not going to go into what is democratic and legally what is one man one vote.

Allow me to say this though... it was precisely the failure of the Muslim Majority of Pakistan to apply the principle on which Pakistan was based (i.e. ``No permanent majority by sheer number should be allowed to dictate to a permanent minority``) that caused the inequity in Pakistan.

The basic issue ``objectives resolution`` in 1949 was passed by 50-10 or something like that with all non-muslims voting against it... had the ``majority is authority`` principle been abandoned in favor of the principle that any law affecting a minority would have to have the approval of the majority of that minority .... Pakistan would not have had the issues it has in form of objectives resolution and the constitution of 1973.

Remember democracy means... rule of all the people... not some of the people or most of the people- when speaking in terms of permanent majorities and minorities conception.
By your logic... one could argue that all federal principles are a negation of one person one vote...

In #19 read << and for that he blames the people that are being choked to death to `breathe``. >>>

as

<< and for that he aks the people that are being choked to death and unable to breathe to `breathe``. >>>

Tahmed writes <<< Like any other government, it will work with the de facto government in a given country. >>>

Look how easily he exempts his masters from any and all blame as if they are subservient to the whatever the de-facto government happens to be, in other words he say that the US government with over 1000 (secret and revealed) military bases around the globe, its military interventions, its long history of support of dictators of all kinds, (long lists as well as recently declassified CIA documents are available aplenty for all to see), its domination of international institutions like the WTO and the World Bank that in fact determines lives and deaths that occur in country-wide economies, means absolutely nothing to this a-hole.

The fact is that America is not a- country it is the-country in the current setup and its elite determine affairs for all strategically important points (of which one happens to be our area) in the globe, not only that they ensure that their hegemony is not threatened by local wannabes so they employ all kinds of tactics from media ownership, manufacturing crisis, to outright wars in the case of Iraq to determine international affiars. Excusing all of that by saying that they are merely looking after their own constituency- also major BS, given the poverty, lack of nutrition, functional illiteracy and lack of health care among the millions in the US even as the profits of the corporations that sit in political directorates, as well as wealth ownership of the top one percent has sky rocketed.

The Pakistan military has a very long history of working for and with the Americans to facilitate whatever the desire of the US elite happens to be at the time in the region, and while doing so it has received the blessings of the Americans and helped it pervert and stunt the growth of democratic institutions in this country. The Blame lies firmly and squarely with the Americans and with their occupation force in Pakistan, strategically named the Pakistan Army and indigenously staffed for just such deception purposes.

Of course tahmed as an unconditional worshipper of the US elite and their perverted policies including the carnage in Iraq and the colonization of our people in the past by the British is expected to act in this deceptive, hypocritical, immoral manner by trying to excuse US barbarism in this area by employing nonsense arguments about `personal responsibility` and what not, as if he means well. This snake, sob, wants to perpetuate US over lordship in this area and for that he blames the people that are being choked to death to `breathe``. How can they when the higher immorals have created a structure that defaults to harming the indigenous at the expense of enriching themselves...

This is an incredibly stupid concept. Noone else is to blame for the fact that Pakistani society is at this point based on social injustice whether it is feudalism or everyday misogyny. Literacy and improved economics will fix that. Or maybe we should write sweet letters to america asking them to stop supporting Pakistani govt`s altogether till some Govt roots out all Pakistans social evils first?
Removing Mush is not the issue and yes i was distributing sweets and i dont regret it, after the cyclic assaults of BB and NS it was a relief to finally have a person who wasnt a cheap hooker in office. If he had left after 3 years he would have been a national hero. However power corrupts and he has in many ways neglected to be the change we wanted to see in our world. Also since he is a moderate in an increasingly polar world he will likely be out soon. But this cycle of unstable democracies and military coups is going to continue till society itself evolves.
As for ``america`` your naivete is touching. I suggest you read some Noam Chomsky to get a good idea of how the country who is rightly lauded for the best internal system of social justice has never reflected that in its foreign policy and isnt about to start. There are many unique and beautiful things about the US but its international agenda is as beautiful as the MMA`s internal agenda.

Re: # 1 YLH

``...Pakistan is evolving and will soon be a functioning democracy ..``
I would like to take this to the next level: are you willing to bet real money on that happening? You pick a time limit and the amount of money you are willing to bet. If you are willing to wager USD 1000 on Pakistan becoming a `functioning` democracy (i.e. freely elected legislature and PM, army back in the barracks, etc.) within 2 years (my yardstick for `soon`), I will be interested.

Imran sahib: Why dont you place responsibility where it belongs - on a military dictator who seeks to remain in power by hook or by crook?

As for this trite notion that I have heard ad infinitum from my fellow Pakistanis - namely, that American people are ignorant: that is all it is. The average American may not know where Mian Channu is, or even where Lahore is. The average American may not know who Jinnah is, and may even be unaware of the religion of Pakistan (the dental assistant cleaning my teeth a few weeks back asked me if it is buddhism).

But that simply means that the average American is infinitely more knowledgeable than the average Pakistani in things that really matter. Thus, the average American plumber, doctor, dental assistant, historian, physicist, police officer, military soldier, politician, farmer, movie producer, priest, civil engineer etc. knows his job much better than the average Pakistani in the same line of work. The average military general in the US knows that his job is to protect the Constition, not overthrow it. The average cop knows that his job is to help the citizen, not bully him for cash.

Instead of complaining about the lack of interest of Americans in Pakistan, we Pakistanis would be better served berating the lack of interest of Pakistanis in America.

As for the US government working with Musharraf: the US government, like any other government, is responsible primarily to the welfare of its own constitutency. Like any other government, it will work with the de facto government in a given country. These are the hard realities that we Pakistanis need to understand, rather than taking the easy route of blaming others for problems created by our own internal weaknesses.

``
If you look at our checkered history, the American Government has always supported Military dictatorships in Pakistan. These dictators have been instrumental in stunting the growth of democracy in our country. ``

Wrong again. The only dictatorship the US government has supported was the Ayub one. Neither Zia nor Musharraf had US support at the time of taking power.

Dude, it was not Americans but Pakistanis themselves who were dancing on the street when Musharraf took power. The US only supported the General in 2001. The General had enjoyed high popularity ratings in Pakistan much prior to that.

Re: # 8: I agree completely, Pakistan needs to fix its own problems. As you rightly pointed out, the genesis of Pakistan created inequities between its Muslim citizens and those holding other religious beliefs.

To paraphrase George Washington: ``Nations do not have permanent allies, they only have permament interests``.

I too hate to see my tax dollars go to pakistan to be siphoned off by Musharraf`s countless Generals, Admirals, and Air Marshals who do nothing all day except remit the money back to New York so it can sit in their little billion-dollar nest egg. A pox on these war criminals who butchered so many innocent men, women and children in Bangladesh.

Dear Imran sir, I think respect and equity is earned not deserved. that goes for people more than anything else. when you don;t care for your own lives, others wouldn`t step up to care for yours either

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I know the letter is well intentioned but I do not think it will have any effect on the conscience of an ordinary American. The fact of the matter is that there is a general consensus among the US population that what American government does to other countries, especially third world countries - the murder the mayhem and all works - is what puts food on the table. So there is a tacit as well as explicit approval by the American population of American government`s genocidal policies. The election of Bush the second time, even when the defeat in Iraq and Afghanistan was written on the wall at the time is the proof of this thesis.

I order to calm the voices of their conscience some Americans hide behind their religious prejudices. As a matter of fact a large part of Chritian religious nuts sincerely believe that by causing genocide and mayhem elsewhere in the world they would cause the second coming of Jesus Christ (pbuh) who supposedly would descend on earth and congratulate all Christians for creating genocides and wars around the world; and would take them to heaven in reward.

The godless capitalists on the other hand see the rest of the world only in terms of the equation of profit and loss. They don`t give a shit to the value of human life. They would rather sell their mothers if price is right.

The rest of Americans are so called gays, liberals, and beer belly over-weight under achievers whose greatest worry in life is the bear and pussy at the end of the weekend (if they are not already in jail). Most of them would not even be able to name their senator if their life depended upon it, what to talk about voting and political process. The affluent ones in this segment are more concerned about issues like whether Tom and Jerry would make good parents if they adopted a Congolese child or could Thelma sell her eggs to Louise or not. So the political awareness of this segment of society, which is about 70% of the population, is at the levels of baboons and lemurs.

So, only people who are left to run America are of only two kinds - Christian religious nuts and godless capitalists. So here we are..between devil and deep sea.

mildly interesting though reads a lot like manto`s ``letters to uncle sam``.

#6

arjun..you say it like it is and so true. Having been around Pakistanis in the States they are a sad sorry lot perpetually justifying their failed state and blaming everyone from Hinjews to Americans to heck even Afghans.

Pakistan was created against democratic principles ie ``One man one vote``. No different from white South Africans insisting on their own country because ther self-serving interest would be swallowed whole.

Considering how much US aid is siphoned to Pakistan is utterly inability to show anything for it rests with itself.