Fox off!

The PS at the end of #74 is directed to pepe le pew, not HP, btw.

HP #71 but did you realize that all US officials dealing with Pakistan are new to Pakistan? i didnt. This has nothing to do with pov.

While commenting on politics, one should at least try to understand who is saying what and where they come from.

I think this is the wrong focus. The focus should be in what is being said explicitly and what additional info is being unintentionally provided. E.g. - see #73 below from this freak with the pompous nick of pewresearch. Does his post tell me anything new? Not really. We all know Pakistan is going through a period of political instability and sure someone somewhere will reach the meaningless conclusion that it is a ``failed state``. So this freak tells me nothing new about Pakistan. He does tell me a lot about himself unintentionally: That there are freaks on chowk who live in a dream world of Pakistan being a failed state (as in case of this freak), or of all goras converting to Islam (the pipedream of that other freak, echoboom). But even that is nothing new any more.

So, without knowing ``who is saying what and where they come from``, one can still tell a lot just by reading what someone wrote. Thus, coming back to ahmed rashid, I found him his article to be focussed on facts rather than conjecture, and for these facts to ring true (i.e. be internally consistent as well as consistent with other info you are already aware of. Hope you see what I mean.

PS: I used your post as an example like one would refer to a lab specimen, so dont try to use the above reference to you to try and start a pompous ``discussion`` with me as you keep trying to do. My precious chowk time is not meant to be wasted on a self-important Pakistan-hating indivdiual like you.

Congratulations, Pakis!
You guys just missed making the Top 10 of the 2007 Failed States Index by the thickness of the hair on your beards. You ranked 12, outclassing Sudan, Zimbabwe and Chad, but bested by North Korea, Bangladesh (rank 16) and Myanmar! A few more years of El Presidente Musharraf may take you over the top (if you know what I mean!)

India was ranked 110.

Interviews conducted in selected parts of Karachi aren`t exactly the best way of gauging public opinion in a city with more than 10 million souls. The same question will evoke a different answer in Sohrab Goth shopping markets, than in Azizabad, Boat Basin and Malir.

Secondly, people are maturer than most generals and pseudo-intellectuals would like us to believe. The human mind is capable of receiving thousands of images/soundbytes every day, and deciding which ones to ``store`` and which ones to ``delete``.

Media should be allowed to cover the truth, even if the coverage appears raw and insensitive to a few. At least that prevents conspiracy theories and vicious rumours from spreading.

Tahmed,

``HP - Please dont make generalizations like ``nothing moves in Pakistan unless the US says so``.

The context was clear. It was about politics and regime change in Pakistan.

I wrote about Cheney`s connection with Musharaf on June 11th and Rashid wrote that on the 15th. So what was the secret or new information he revealed?

Dr. Aysha had to leave Pakistan for documenting known facts about the Pak army. Rashid writes much more about the Pak army`s involvement with Taliban and as I understand, he is still in Pakistan.
His articles in various publications and his books represent a certain pov which is associated with the CIA and the State dept pov in Pakistani affairs.

While commenting on politics, one should at least try to understand who is saying what and where they come from. I said it before and I will say it again Rashid is carrying water for the CIA.

There are many in Pakistan who have lived on CIA`s dole and that include many Generals and journalists in the past and some may be now.

rf/HP: I dont know much about ahmed rashid, and that does not matter since it is the article that I found informative and quite credible. So, I agree with rf that HP is out of line in his uncalled for personal attacks on rashid.

HP - Please dont make generalizations like ``nothing moves in Pakistan unless the US says so``. An entire mountain moved in Chagai due to explosion of nuclear bombs built by Pakistan over a period of decades despite strong US opposition. By pointing to the US, you are merely taking responsibility for the internal political mess in Pakistan as well the mullah violence in Afghanistan and Kashmi away from where it properly belongs - the Pakistani military generals.

Re: # 68

HP,

This is not the first time Ahmed Rashid has criticized the current setup, he has always been a vocal opponent to the administrations duplicity. I fail to understand why you take offence to his opinion afterall thats what u have been parroting is nt it?

In your opinion Ahmed Rashid is a parrot and stenographer, thats your prerogative but in my opinion thats one solitary, negligible opinion of a demented meglomaniac.

#66 by rf786

I don’t blame you for your lack of knowledge. Ahmed Rashid has been carrying water for the US State dept and the CIA for a long time. There is nothing he writes which is hidden or is news for people who understand and follow the game that is played in our part of the world.

This is a known fact that the Pak army has special relationship with the Pentagon. State dept or the CIA have very little input in what goes on in Pakistan. At times Pakistan becomes the soccer ball when CIA, state dept and the Pentagon collide with each other in establishing US foreign policy goals. There is no denying that Pakistan army and musharaf were supported by both Rumsfeld and Cheney during the last six or seven years. Even before that, it was pentagon which always kept its communication and good relations with Pakistan going even during the darkest days of Pakistan-US relations in the 90s. Since Rumsfeld is now gone, Cheney is Pakistan army’s main supporter in the US establishment. So what Ahmed Rashid wrote is not something new. He is just stating the obvious.

Watch the recent proceedings in Pakistan and realize how little control Pakistanis have over their own country. Richard Boucher, The CIA-State dept guy goes to Pakistan and attempted to impress upon the Pakistan politicians that US supports change in Pakistan. Musharaf refuses to meet him. Immediately, Negroponte shows up. He is Cheney’s man and Musharaf is glad to meet him. His visit is followed by Admiral Fallen to reassure the Pak army that the Pentagon will not let the army down in the proposed new set up in Pakistan. CIA and the State dept take offense and Condi summons Pak foreign minister to Washington and he is already there.

Just a few weeks ago both General Ihsan ul Haque, the chairman of the joint chiefs and Ehsan Saleem Hayat, the army`s vice chief of staff, were in Washington and they spent time with Negroponte and Cheney.

“According to the ex-Pakistani official, both men were recently in Washington, sounding out senior officials: ``They didn`t come to Washington for a Burger King meal.`` A State Department official confirms that ul-Haq met in May with Deputy Secretary of State John Negroponte, but could not say the same for Hayat.”

Here is my post on this issue on another blog:

Nothing moves in Pakistan w/o the US approval, especially of Pentagon.

CIA and the State dept are going after Musharaf for sometime now but he always had Pentagon’s support and that is what matters in the current Pakistan. CIA or the State dept, no matter what they say about Musharaf, will not be able to remove him.

Musharaf lost his biggest ally Rumsfeld. Cheney is still there but it seems that Gates is not really interested in Musharaf. So we may see some change.

However, they still have to find a solution as to how to transfer power.

Ehsan ul-Haq, the chairman of the joint chiefs is unimportant. He cannot replace Musharaf. Number 2 man in Pakistan is Ehsan Saleem Hayat, the army`s vice chief of staff. But as long as he is the deputy, he will not be able to remove Musharaf.

The best option is to force Musharaf to not run for the post of President again and resign his Chief of the Army Staff position thus allowing the current Vice Chief to strike a deal with the politicians, especially Benazir Bhutto and her allies.
Posted by: HP
Date: June 11, 2007 11:10 PM

Ahmed Rashid is a parrot and a stenographer.

Reproduced under is the article that the AH editors of CHOWK censored as they have censored many of my previous articles. These idiot editors on Chowk of which the major one is Mohammad Gill (the writer of pseudo-plagiarized BS), have mastered, like the US media, the art of drowning relevant discussion by either outright censorship or bombardment with BS. Read the article under and judge for yourselves whether it should have been published or not:

FACTIONALISM, SOCIAL MOVEMENT STRUCUTRE AND SOCIAL CHANGE by M. Asadi

Re: # 65

tahmed32

Ahmed Rashid to me is the best authority on Afghanistan, tribal areas and central Asian politics. When Ahmed Rashid speaks he has experience, contacts and political insight that many others lack, it was his books that exposed the taliban and Al Qaeda when many writers and intellectuals were hailing Taliban as the only solution. Thanku for posting his article, greatly appreciated.

Bells are ringing for Musharraf who lost support of the influential secular intellectuals who defended his takeover hoping for a change to be utterly disappointed.

Brilliant, informative article in the Washington Post by Pakistani journalist Ahmed Rashid.

Musharraf`s Double Game to Cling to Power

Excerpts:

Game 1: The Musharraf-Cheney Connection

...Current and past US Officials tell me that Pakistan policy is essentially being run from Cheney`s office. The vice president, they say, is close to Musharraf and refuses to brook any U.S. criticism of him. This all fits; in recent months, I`m told, Pakistani opposition politicians visiting Washington have been ushered in to meet Cheney`s aides, rather than taken to the State Department.

With Cheney in charge and Rice in eclipse, rumblings of alarm can be heard at the Defense Department and the CIA. While neither agency is usually directly concerned with decision-making on Pakistan, both boast officers with far greater expertise than the White House and State Department crew. These officers, many of whom have served in Islamabad or Kabul, understand the double game that Musharraf has played -- helping the United States go after al-Qaeda while letting his intelligence services help the Taliban claw their way back in Afghanistan. The Pentagon and the CIA have been privately expressing concern about the lack of an alternative to blind support for Musharraf. Ironically, both departments have historically supported military rulers in Pakistan. They seem to have learned their lesson. ...

Game 2: The Musharraf-Mullah Connection

the Taliban and al-Qaeda are now deeply entrenched in the tribal border belt adjacent to Afghanistan. These groups gained political legitimacy last year when Musharraf signed a series of dubious peace deals with the Pakistani Taliban. They are now coming down from the mountains to spread their radical ideology in towns and cities by burning down DVD and TV shops, insisting that young men grow beards, forcibly recruiting schoolboys for the jihad and terrifying girls so that they won`t attend school. The military has refused to put a brake on their extremism.

Musharraf promised the international community that he would purge pro-Taliban elements from his security services and convinced the Bush administration that his philosophy of ``enlightened moderation`` was the only way to fend off Islamic extremism. But Pakistan today is the center of global Islamic terrorism, with Osama bin Laden and Taliban leader Mohammad Omar probably living here.

Instead of confronting this threat, the army has focused on keeping Musharraf in power -- negotiating with extremists, letting radical Islamic students set up a base in Islamabad and so forth. Meanwhile, to spook the West into continuing to support him, Musharraf continues to grossly exaggerate the strength of the Islamic parties that he warns might take over his nuclear-armed country. In fact, the United States would be far safer if it pushed for a truly representative Pakistani government that could marginalize the jihadists, rather than placing all its eggs in Musharraf`s basket.

Nadeem, have you switched to Khabarnama on PTV as the most authentic news source? The graphic content on public television channels should be moderated, but censorship beyond that steps on the freedom of expression. Ultimately, given all choices, the viewers need to make the call on what they want to watch. The state of affairs in Pakistan is not ``normal`` these days and that is reflected in the media (both local and international). Unfortunately, it just seems to be getting worse, as Musharraf is trying to cling to power by all means while his honeymoon with the US is approaching its logical end.

WHO THE GUCK ASKED FOR YOUR OPINION

I really resent NaPak Fauj selling out our country to foreigners. Chief election commissioner should be telling all this to people of Pakistan, take them into confidence, instead of masters of fouji mafioso who are on cia payroll.