Allama Iqbal- Is he still relevant?

Folio,

Thanks for your concern addressed to pew-research... Unlike yourself, Pew research suffers from deep seated insecurities about India. (A proud Indian would never take pride in 1 billion strong India over taking 80 million strong Germany in consumption in 2025). The best thing to do is ignore such people.

Considering as Naqshi says the majority is satisfied with food, clothing & shelter & would be happy to be left alone, democracy doesnt have that much to recommend it (except for the alternative!) Heard a guy recently who has studied the wisdom of the collective on the internet & came to the conclusion that the collective is generally stupid.
Its not elitism to note this just realism.
Democracy certainly does not confer some magical moral authority on a people as many have come to believe.

Pew,

U cant wait for a couple of days till the subjet/article is discussed? Are u a one-trick pony or an illiterate who cant read the text and context of the article?

Re: # 14 Folio
I like cutting to the chase. Thanks

Re: # 15

Pew, U have a point but the context is not right. Hope I am clearer.

Yasser, U can ignore anybody u dont like. Btw, is this article dedicated to Sadna (coz written as a response to Sadna`s posers)?

Anyway u are less raucous here.

Here are some additional pictures to add more context:




and

YLH:
This all that matters:



and


Lahore protestors burning the Danish flag after cartoons were published in Jyllands Posten

and


Protesters in Lahore burn the Union Jack.
Photo: AP

Iqbal`s poetry (lofty words, but mediocre ideas) is as irrelevant as the Constitution of Pakistan. Got my point?
Now, go and make your life a bit more useful
CIAO

more importantly, is jinnah relevant?

Reward for killing

ISLAMABAD: Pakistani traders on Thursday announced a reward of Rs 10 million for anyone who beheads Salman Rushdie, following Britain’s decision to award the novelist a knighthood. The announcement came during a protest by 200 traders at Aabpara market, Islamabad, an AFP photographer said. “We will give Rs 10 million to anyone who beheads Rushdie,” the secretary general of the Islamabad traders association, Ajmal Baluch, told the cheering crowd. He also called on Islamic countries to boycott British products in protest at the honour to Rushdie, the author of The Satanic Verses. afp

New Rushdie protests after Britain defends award

ISLAMABAD (AFP) - Muslim anger flared Thursday after Britain defended Salman Rushdie’s knighthood, with fresh protests against the novelist and Pakistani clerics bestowing a title on Osama bin Laden in response.

Hundreds of demonstrators took to the streets in Indian Kashmir and Pakistan, while Indonesia, the world’s most populous Muslim nation, criticised the timing of the honour. ...

The Pakistani Ulema Council, a private body that claims to be the biggest of its kind in the country with 2,000 scholars, said it had given Al-Qaeda chief Bin Laden its “highest title for a Muslim warrior.”

“We are pleased to award the title of Saifullah (sword of Allah) to Osama bin Laden after the British government’s decision to bestow the title of ‘Sir’ on blasphemer Rushdie,” council chairman Maulana Tahir Ashrafi told AFP.

Bin Laden has been blamed for the September 11, 2001 attacks on New York and Washington that killed nearly 3,000 people. He is widely believed to be hiding on the Pakistan-Afghanistan border.

Later Afzal Sahi — the speaker of the Punjab province assembly and a member of the Pakistan Muslim League party that backs President Pervez Musharraf — said during a debate that he would obey his duty as a Muslim to murder Rushdie. “If this man comes in front of me I will definitely kill him,” he said.

Manto: a helpful tip...stay away from KFC tomorrow....

Yasser,

I think this discussion is incomplete without an analysis of Iqbal`s concept of Khudi. This concept is equally applicable to an individual as to a nation. In Asrar-e-Khudi, he has described the various stages of a person graduating to higher levels of self-realization and self-perfection. These stages suggest that the self-conscious and conscientious individual/nation is essentially an ``evolutionary`` creature.

This evolutionary nature of Khudi lends itself to application in democracy, governance, religious reconstruction. Because these are evolutionary in nature too.

Jahan-e-taaza ki afkar-e-taaza se hai namood,
Ke Sang-o-Khisht se hotay nahin jahan paida

Endurance and unity are essential for self-actualization because Iqbal believed the Khudi of one individual reinforces the Khudi of others in society. When one person defies a military general for the sake of his principles, others in society also follow suit and thereby validate the defiance of the first person.

Iqbal`s ambivalence toward democracy is understandable. The 1920s and 30s were traumatic for the democracies because of the Great Depression. Dictatorial regimes especially Germany and Japan witnessed unprecedented growth in industrial and military power during this period.

It seems Iqbal couldn`t make up his mind whether he preferred the freedoms of democracy to the economic efficiency of dictatorship, or vice versa. Perhaps if he had lived to see the end of WW2, this choice would have been easier to make for him.

#4 naqshabandi

{Some kind of qualification (maybe an IQ test of some sort with those scoring less than 100 barred) needs to be built in so that ability and not just numbers are taken into account. After all the opinion of 100 morons does not have the same weight as one Einstein but in pure democracy the views of 100 idiots would hold sway. }

this is an interesting idea. what do you think of disenfranchising children of cousin-marriages? or maybe giving them extra votes?

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after all, most people are content with just eating,drinking and fcuking. (Nothing wrong with any of those things per se but not when all your energies are solely devoted to these things and you can do
aught else.)

Iqbal`s poem, ``Jamhuriyat (Democracy)``

the translation from the allama iqbal official website allamaiqbal.com:

Democracy:
By some European sage
This secret was revealed,
Though men endowed with sense,
Keep points like this concealed.

Democracy means a mode
To rule the common man
No doubt, they count the votes,
But conduct do not scan.


Who was this ``European sage`` -- I think Nietzsche.

A muddled essay but an interesting topic. Iqbal is much bigger than Pakistan or any other nation state. His object was Man (and specifically the Muslim Man) and how he can raise Himself to his highest spiritual and material potential.

I don`t think the ideas of such a lofty idealist like Iqbal can be applied to a constitution as his ideas were fluid. However, they --like much else of the greatest work of the greatest thinkers--were certainly what would be termed Elitist in today`s parlance and, personally, I don`t think there`s anything wrong with that. He wanted people to strive towards the highest possible goal: gnosis of Allah (God) whilst simultaneously being great in this worldly life too. In that sense it was a return to the Prophetic message but packaged in poetic language relevant for his age. He wrote mostly in Farsi--and certainly his magnum opus--because he wanted to reach a MUCH larger audience of Muslims than the Urdu speakers alone.

Nietzsche too was an elitist...

Iqbal`s critique of democracy is not without merit--I am a supporter of democracy but I don`t think everyone should be allowed to vote. Most people in most societies--i.e. the common masses are simply too dumb to know what`s good for them and are like sheep and follow whatever their peers say. Some kind of qualification (maybe an IQ test of some sort with those scoring less than 100 barred) needs to be built in so that ability and not just numbers are taken into account. After all the opinion of 100 morons does not have the same weight as one Einstein but in pure democracy the views of 100 idiots would hold sway.

This is a well-balanced and insightful article on Iqbal`s views concerning the issues facing Pakistanis. While not arguing with the conclusion that Iqbalian thought however has the promise and potential of giving Pakistan a higher purpose:, I would say that there are simpler and more direct ways to give Pakistan a higher purpose than the Iqbalist ``pidram sultan bood`` (``father was a king``): that is, to simply accept the basic principles on which the most progressive societies in the world have flourished.

These are first and foremost, the principles of respect for the basic rights of all individuals, particularly the right to elect the national and local political leaders, and the freedom to think and to speak.

No need to seek Iqbal`s or anyone else`s approval for these principles. These principles stand by themselves, and dont need any literary sources or intellectual argments to support them. Although there is no shortage of both, particularly when one looks outside the narrow confines of muslim history or indian history.