Imran Khan's Politics

#370 by Folio,

His II wife (cousin) was some Rana & there are no Muslim Ranas in UP

Haha .. abey c***ya, I don`t think I need to go further. LoL

GanduZee-in-Chief,

>>These types (anti-Pak & pro-Bharat) first attempted at complete control of federal bureaucracy through the CSS system, installed in key positions by Liaqat Ali Khan<<

Is that the same Liaqat Ali Khan who showed clenched fist to India and preferred that Pak`d dump all the jute in Bay of Bengal than sell it to India? If Liaqat was pro-Bharat why he sided with Jinnah and became instrumental in Jinnah`s homecoming?

Saharanpur was on the border of East Punjab. His II wife (cousin) was some Rana & there are no Muslim Ranas in UP. So Liaqat was a Punjabi himself. He settled in Saharanpur for his legal practice (sic).

Sleem is right. Ur hate is irrational.

Ppl become contrite when then see no future for them. This is prononced more in the articles of Ghazi Salahuddin (Editor of the News - Jang Group) who of course is another prominent mohajir.

After the killings of May 12, in which all of Pakistan (except for the PPP) have come out accusing the MQM as the perpetrators of the mayhem and carnage that was done. The constant threat (even till this day) by those who belong to this urban terrorist group is just amazing.

First, it is the MQM who came out with blatant threats, to disallow the peaceful demonstration in support of the Chief Justice. These were people of the legal community, and by definition the educated elite. The question to ask is: are there no mohajir in the legal profession?

How did the MQM consider this call for receiving the CJ as a demonstration against them? Is it because they are also a minor part of the Federal government? Or is it because Musharraf, being a mohajir, it somehow relates to ``anti-mohajir`` demonstration?

Of course this was probably the biggest political blunder for Alt-F, who can never transform from being an activist terror monger to being a wise political leader. Is it because of his lack of political ability to lead a city of multi-ethnic city?

Is terror the only choice left for mohajirs of Karachi?

The process of diminution regarding the killings of May 12, where over 40 people were killed unnecessarily, is now underway and the only option left for these spin doctors. MQM starts the killings, and somehow this should be forgotten. Of course, they have claimed on this site, that no one has supported Alt-F. How can they? After all, they must show pseudo semblance of decency. They are after all mohajirs, a so-called educated class.

Then, they have developed other types of spin. Why did Imran Khan not come out against earlier killings in the NWFP region by the Pakistan military? Well, the same question can be asked of the MQM.

The spin-doctors may not realize that for Pakistan in general, this is the best opportunity to get to Alt-F legally in his adopted country. By getting his British citizenship revoked and possibly deported to Pakistan may be the best event yet for the downtrodden mohajir community of Karachi, that he so miserably failed to represent.

Some have wondered that Alt-F is the only person that can lead the mohajirs of Karachi. That may be. If some mohajirs want to follow such a person with his group of urban guerrillas then it is their choice. However, in a multi-ethnic society such as Karachi, these urban terrorist must not be allowed to usurp the political rights of other people. The so-called writ of state that Musharraf has been harping on for so long should be applied to the biggest city in Pakistan. Killers must be apprehended, and brought to justice.

Re: # 355

PM,

You said: {Actaully, Arif, that would only be wrong if indeed one could imagine the MQM sans AH.} That is the gist of your query.

I agree with you, then again dear friend, he is the glue that keeps the party together. Ideally speaking, I wud like to have a much more liberal and democratic Mqm, an Mqm that not only allows dissent, it promotes tolerance towards other viewpoints. Any normal person wud prefer to have moderate ideas, peace and tranquility, but what to do, the entire country is plagued by meglomaniacal fanatics. Take AH out of the equation, who do u think will replace him? Mullah Omer, Qazi Hussein, Imran Khan, LJ, SSP etc etc. In simple terms, AH is not an isolated event or a freak of nature, he is after all the end-result of Pakistan`s fanatical militant policies that promoted violence, religious extremism and disenfranchised minorities. As they say, u reap what u sow.

Re: # 353 & 355

PM,

Ref to IK refusal or inability to accept democratic principles.

Yaar this is very easy, democracy ``is government by the people in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.`` In the phrase of Abraham Lincoln, democracy is a government ``of the people, by the people, and for the people.`` In IK case, it is him and only him, he has failed to build a political party that is supported BY the People, OF the people and FOR the people is only ONE man. PTI has evolved around ONE person and his personna, this resembles a authoritarian polity more than a political setup that depends upon a group of people with similar politcal aims and equal opportunity to participate.

Some of the pillars or disciplines of democracy are ``Equality before the law``, ``Minority Rights``, ``Guarantee of basic human rights`` and ``Values of tolerance, pragmatism, cooperation, and compromise``.

IK used May 12th as an excuse to raise his political profile, destabilize Musharraf`s regime by fanning ethnic differences using Mqm/AH as the punching bag/bogey. That my dear friend is inexcusable and violates all of the above disciplines. Had IK taken the cause of 700+solidiers killed in Wana area and all those innocent ppl killed by those crazy fundos with the same vigour then he wud have shown impartiality and objectivity, but that was not to because of ethnic pride and political ambition. Loyalty to ethnic roots has compromised IK ability to be objective and fair thus violating all of the basic principles of democracy.

{Arif`s logic (or lack thereof) when it comes to the issue of the May 12 deaths is similarly disturbing. Even if we subtract the 13 claimed by the MQM as their own (Gee, that must prove they weren`t the instigators!!) you`re left with a figure, as of May 15, of 35-- not 29-- others. That Arif can claim, without an iota of evidence, that ``most of these 33 were innocent bystanders``, is again simply befuddling, if not alarming.}

Bhai, I have given u a number of 13 ppl kiled that belonged to Mqm, show me something for the other parties. All I have heard or read till now are blanket statements, 42 killed by mqm with no details to which party these victims belonged. Till date, ppl are regurgigating the same propaganda, 42 killed by Mqm ignoring the reality that of those killed there were 13 Mqm victims, there is no remorse or demand for justice when it comes to mqm. Why this demonization PM? This is called discrimination and is blatantly practiced and IK is guilty of the same, he has not once condemned killings of Mqm workers.

{That MQM supporters here can deny that the party/group has more than a mere `rogue element`; or that its politics have always included fear-induction and very organised extortionism thru (mainly) bhatta collection, arm-twisting, and organized crime such as, chiefly, mobile-phone and vehicle ``snatchings`` is all more than a little disturbing for the ordinary Karachi resident like myself. (Ordinary in the sense of having no friends in high and/or low places). }

That is not tue, most of those who stand up for mohajir issues are as much repelled by this thuggery as anyone else. Where we differ is the way this issue is slanted and used to demonize and rationalize atrocities committed against mohajirs or residents of Karachi/Hyderabad. Another point, we have magnifying glasses looking for mobile phone snatchers on Karachi yet there is complete silence when it comes to right wing religious fascists trampling all basic human rights. This is called duplicity and that is the problem.


{Well, of course the MQM was a platform for the Mohajirs to address genuine grievances against the `others`, and is what gives it staying power, well beyond that utility. But anyone seeking legitamacy, or trying to sell acceptability, of the party on these grounds alone would to well to remember the origins of the Nazi Party circa 1930s-- or indeed of any popular uprising led by a Great Leaders-- be it from Cuba, Zimbabwe, or Uganda. Admittedly, and thankfully, the power of the MQM/Altaf hasn`t quite reached such proportions, but it might just be a matter of time, at least within the ambit of Karachi, if otherwise sane folks continue defending its actions and politics, spinning certain events, and ignoring certain inherent relationships, as exhibited here.}

Yaar, this German example applies more to the likes of Imran Khan, Hameed Gul who claim to be of aryan origin. These poor dark skinned mohajirs happen to be a minority that is trying to survive this tsunami tidal wave of religious extremism propagated by the great white hope. If the criticism is of AH then it is correct, but then again meray bhai, which other political party has any popular political base? BB-PPP, NS-PML, IK-PTI. Only difference btw them and AH is their social/financial background. Three major parties are dependent upon rich tyrants who can buy their way whereas AH belongs to a below average income family, Azizabad citizen with no money or familial power base of his own thus the dependence on violence. Both are wrong.

PM,

I resent your unprovoked jabs at me. I just wanted to make that clear.

As for painting mohajirs with a wide brush, this isn`t the case as I have clarified many times though you may have missed it.

I however reiterate, without any ambiguity or hesitation, that MQM and its supporters / voters are ALL anti-State kind of people whose main loyalties lie with bharat. This is without exception. They do not share the national agenda by far.

These types first attempted at complete control of federal bureaucracy through the CSS system, installed in key positions by Liaqat Ali Khan, as well as of the Govt/Semi-Govt Corporations through nepotism, cronyism and clannishness.

I clearly remember the advice of an experienced well-wisher when I started my professional career in a semi-Government Corporation, to ``Be careful of the `choti yey```.

Though I dismissed that advice being a `liberal type` then, in time I found it to be very well-founded indeed.

Now they want absolute and unfettered control of at-least Karachi even though they`re in a minority (i.e. MQM types) even in Karachi, and Karachi is a part of the province of Sindh .

The majority of mohajirs are indeed patriotic people, but they don`t support MQM.

I hope my position is now clear.

#347 by cliftonbridge,

The issue is an angry and alienated urban middle class (which doesnt exist in these huge numbers outside of karachi). If the surrounding areas of karachi were not so heavily feudal (enemy to the socialist and feminist) and if they were economically similar then i can bet my life this wouldnt be an issue.

HuH? You appear to be getting more and more incoherent with every post. So you`re angry that `surrounding areas of karachi` (i.e.rural sindh) is feudal. What`s that got to do with you? They don`t impose Karo Kari or tribla jirgas in Karachi do they? Did you kill 48 people in preventing CJ entering Karachi to turn Karachi`s surroundings into `urban middle class`?

While you`re at it, also ask your machhar brothers who claim others were armed too on May 12 that how many bodies in the streets had guns lying alongside, or how many weapons the Edhi Ambulance driver had who was murdered in cold-blood ...

Now please answer the following question which you have been studiously avoiding:

If the ``Respondents had a higher socioeconomic status than the national average``, what`re they complaining about?????

#362 =reply

I suggest making ralph nader the president. Those dissenting please show me the alternative :) Doesnt work quite like that - we have three choice Mush Bush and BB so pick your poison. As sad as the above may be they all beats the pants off Mullah Imran Talibanist.

i apologize for not labelling this correctly on a prior post. This was amnesty internationals summation re. the shia persecution : (oh and there are no equivalent suggestions made re. non muhajirs in karachi or the muhajir dissenters)


Sindh Health Minister Ahsan Ahmed said more than 2000 doctors have applied in the past one year to leave because of the security situation and the economic crisis. Since 1994, seventy-seven doctors have been murdered. Of them more than 50 have been killed in the last five years. In 2000, eight doctors were killed. Last year, seven doctors lost their lives. And already this year, six doctors have fallen victim, according to PMA figures

we suggest :
Acknowledging the difficult legacy of sectarian strife the new government has inherited;
Urging the government to make a public statement that sectarian violence, including killings of doctors and nurses, will no longer be tolerated under the new government;
Calling on the government to immediately establish an impartial and thorough investigation into threats of violence and killings of health professionals; to bring the perpetrators to justice; and to allocate more resources to the police for this purpose;
Urging the government to provide protection to health professionals and their families if they request if following threats of violence towards them.

Hi everyone,

AKA Khan, you have said what i wanted to say for a long time..........


We need to give Imran a chance.... For those who are against this, please identify options..

thanks

Amer Khan
Sydney, Australia

Karachi has a sad history of violence. I can`t understand how the political attacks of the MQM against its opponents (muhajirs more than non muhiajirs) is in the same league as blowing up mosques and kidnapping innocent nonpolitical citizens like doctors.
How can you make the case that the nonsecularists in karachi are peaceful or even ``more peaceful``?

Oh and dont misunderstand my amnesty international quotes i am not saying MQM`s violence is justified because they are always being attacked. I am trying to explain that the political violence of the past is way more complex than just `MQM are terrorists`` which is intellectually dishonest and unfair. As far as I know there are no muhajir spin doctors ruling amnesty international.

Oh and re. the MQM crackdown amnesty international had the following things to say, and then the Sind Govt had a rebuttal and amnesty rebutted that too :

The government`s tampering with the evidence, i.e. removing the entries of at least 36 killed in lists of killings covering a four-month period, casts doubt on the validity of the record itself and in a broader sense the government`s attitude of impartiality and commitment to respect for the rule of law.

Amnesty International is constrained to conclude that the responses it has received from the Government of Pakistan are entirely unsatisfactory: they show no real commitment to end human rights abuses and violations in Karachi.

In its statement, Amnesty International had enumerated several human rights violations allegedly perpetrated by law enforcement personnel. These included reported arbitrary arrests of family members of wanted MQM members, reports of torture, of lack of access of political prisoners to lawyers and of ``disappearance`` of prisoners in custody. Amnesty International had called on the government to bring such violations to an end and to establish inquiries into all reported instances of human rights violations with a view to bringing perpetrators of human rights violations to justice.

The Sindh government sent a letter claiming that ``Amnesty International`s statement is mostly based on newspaper reports comprised of press releases issued by MQM Altaf group``. It is standard practice of Altaf group to issue press release of any alleged incident in Karachi, in a most subjective manner, and then to ensure that it is published in Karachi press verbatim. ... The press releases issued by Altaf group are based on rhetoric, misstatements, concoctions and fabrications ... It appears that AI has been influenced by such concocted propaganda material of Altaf group.``

Amnesty International responded saying it ``never bases its statements merely on newspaper reports; it has received communications directly from victims and victims` families, from lawyers and human rights groups and has verified these in Pakistan itself``

PM you are suggesting we cant take the violence of the MQM versus the peace of a misogynist/non secular party? I am literally dumfounded by the suggestion that the nonsecularists in karachi are peaceful. Please read over the foll. news reports and amnesty internationals impartial report on karachi`s ethnic violence :


In the early part of the new millennium, the names of Shia doctors and lawyers were listed on anonymously paid-for newspaper ads; these were, in fact, assassination hitlists - those listed were systematically assassinated by extremist Salafist and Deobandi groups as part of an effort to ethnically cleanse the nation of its Shia notables

In the last 30 days, three more doctors have been killed in Karachi in sectarian-related violence, taking the figure of doctors killed in sectarian violence in the city over the last two years to 68.

TFT has learnt that over a dozen doctors are in the process of shutting down their clinics and moving abroad while many more are seriously thinking of moving out.
2001

More than 60 people have been killed and hundreds wounded. While the city has been hit by bloodletting between Shiite- and Sunni-based groups before, the latest round is the worst in recent years.
2004

The first recorded outbreak of violence was in 1963 in the rural Sindh town of Khairpur, some 450 kilometers (280 miles) northeast of Karachi, where over 150 Shiites were killed in a mob attack.

It spread to Karachi in 1978. Over the next six years hundreds of Shiites and Sunnis were killed and scores of mosques were burnt to the ground.

Tensions were inflamed by events in Pakistan`s neighbours.

``Sectarian militancy in Pakistan further rose with the Islamic revolution in Iran, followed by the rise of the Taliban in Afghanistan,`` said Jamil Ysuuf, former chief of Karachi`s Citizen-Police Liason Committee.

After killing Shiite leaders, most of the extremist Sunni militants took refuge in Afghanistan under the Taliban.

In retaliation Shiite militant group Sipah-e-Mohammad started targetting Sunni extremist leaders.

``The past two or three years have seen the rise of highly-motivated militants, who are not scared of death and want to become martyrs by killing members of the rival sect,`` police investigator Manzoor Mughal said.

Sunni and Shiite leaders insisted the latest eruption of violence was a bid to provoke the two communities.

``The murder of Shamzai and the bomb blast at Shiite mosque are part of this conspiracy and we will foil it,`` Mufti Mohammad Jamil, a spokesman for the Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam party told AFP.

More than 4,000 people have been killed in Sunni-Shiite violence since the mid 1980s

KARACHI (AFP) - Sectarian blood-letting in the troubled Pakistani city of Karachi has reached its worst level for two decades as extremists fight back against a renewed campaign to hunt them down, analysts have said.

An apparent suicide attack on a mosque used by Pakistan`s minority Shiite Muslim community during evening prayers Monday was the latest in a bloody spiral of attacks. It killed 19 people and wounded more than two dozen.

Five deadly attacks in Karachi have claimed 46 lives in less than a month, confirming the crowded port city`s reputation as one of the world`s most dangerous cities.

Forty-two of the dead were Shiites. One victim was a senior cleric from the rival Sunni majority.

Police in the Pakistani city of Karachi have fired tear gas at thousands of angry mourners after an attack on a Shia mosque killed at least 20.
Trouble erupted after funeral prayers for 14 of those killed in Monday`s attack, which officials believe was a sectarian suicide bombing
2004

Sindh Health Minister Ahsan Ahmed said more than 2000 doctors have applied in the past one year to leave because of the security situation and the economic crisis. Since 1994, seventy-seven doctors have been murdered. Of them more than 50 have been killed in the last five years. In 2000, eight doctors were killed. Last year, seven doctors lost their lives. And already this year, six doctors have fallen victim, according to PMA figures

Introducing yourself in your professional capacity and/or as a member of Amnesty International;
Acknowledging the difficult legacy of sectarian strife the new government has inherited;
Urging the government to make a public statement that sectarian violence, including killings of doctors and nurses, will no longer be tolerated under the new government;
Calling on the government to immediately establish an impartial and thorough investigation into threats of violence and killings of health professionals; to bring the perpetrators to justice; and to allocate more resources to the police for this purpose;
Urging the government to provide protection to health professionals and their families if they request if following threats of violence towards them.

#353 PM {``That you, Salim, should try to spin this as an instance of the kindly Mohajirs preventing a possible riot by the opposition parties (yeah, right, we know how many lives were lost in the CJ`s processions all over Pakistan to date!!) ... ``}

PM Sahib,
If the PPI (Pukhtoon Punjab Ittehaad), PTI, and all the other forms of P were rallying to receive the CJ in their ``democratic`` right of ``freedom of assembly and speech,`` why were they armed with guns? There are photographs depicting many of these ``peaceful`` rioters armed while ``rallying.`` How were they able to shoot back and kill so many of their assailants? I guess they went looking for a gunfight and a gunfight found them. :)

#353 pM {``re. #335: Urstruly
I was more than intrigued to read the following:

``I must remind you that Punjab is the only province that has unanimoulsy passed resolution through its assembly stressing on federal government to import stranded pakistanis; as a matter of fact the Punjabi prime minister NS is the only PM that even secured funding from Saudi Arabia to help accomodate those Pakistanis. ``

Sadly, Salim`s response, or non-response to the above is starting to become a pattern. ``}

PM Sahib and Maulana Urstruly,
Great! Let`s give a medal to the Punjab Provincial Assembly and ask them to follow up on their unanimous resolution - or is that too pusillanimous? What happened to the funding that Besharif secured? On second thought, please don`t tell me.

How many ``stranded pakistanis`` have been brought back since the unanimous resolution and who is stopping the rest from coming home?

Nek kaam meN der kyon lagrahi he?

re. #354:
Arif,
Thanks for the compliments. Needless to say, I feel likewise.
`look forward to your responses tomorrow.