Whence Then is Evil?

#66:

Just so there is no confusion, sending invitation cards to deity ``foolish`` was a normative statement, stating that the religious serials added to the BJP votes was a descriptive statement.

kaalchakra:


I am sure that you know the difference between Normative and Descriptive statements.

dm sahib

With all pleasure, call anyone foolish you wish to, and they would call you foolish back. That`s what joy of life, and Indian freedom, is all about. Since we don`t have true knowledge, this foolishness fest is very very precious. Let`s celebrate all our foolish gods and goddesses; and live and laugh with them, at them; making sure they get due respect, but never get too big for their godly boots.

And hopefully, you don`t mean you would rather have people ignorant so long as they don`t vote BJP (if there is any coneection between the two at all).۔۔۔ this is rank communalism of the worst sort.

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beej

Then we would be truly left with nothing.

bjkumar:

``In particular, those who pooh-pooh the Ramayana and the Mahabharata are the cowardly lot. There are many good values to be learned from those Books.``

That`s not me. I love Ramayana and Mahabharat. In my childhood, I never missed RamLila and tears swelled in my eyes when I would see Ram crying over his unconscious wounded brother , Lakshman and cheered for Hanuman when he carried the whole mountain to bring Lakshman back to life.

I also feel that these two epics are a masterpiece in literature and equal or better than any other epic produced by any other civilization. And I haven`t even seen many episodes of the serial.

But I do believe that those two serials did add to the vote-bank of the BJP.

#60 Circle of Time

[I don`t get this Nehruvian desire to rid India of all foolishness. What would we have left to celebrate]

You would have the LEFT to celebrate.

kaal:

I have no problem with people`s foolishness (and I wouldn`t have gone to India for that particular wedding even if I had received the invitation in time). But foolishness is still foolishness and Nehruvians don`t have a copyright in calling it that.

The wholesale negation of ancient Indian holy books by the Indian pinkos is a matter of absolute shame and disgrace – especially in view of the fact that they reserve such negation to Books of Indian origin only – and virtually pee in their pants when it comes to extrapolating the same criticism to religion at large, including any large elephants in the room! Highly hypocritical!

In particular, those who pooh-pooh the Ramayana and the Mahabharata are the cowardly lot. There are many good values to be learned from those Books.

Such books do not try to tell you what to do but in their stories there are morals to draw for an individual who is willing to exercise his/her judgment. There are the examples of both good and evil – it is up to individuals to pick what examples they wish to emulate.

There are acts of selflessness as in case of Bharata. One could emulate those.

But there will always be some individuals who would rather follow Bhima’s example and drink their own brothers’ blood! :(

dm sahib, this is what I don`t get. What difference does it make? How about if I start sending out invitations to dogs (I often do)?

What happened in the case was sheer inefficiency, mismanagement, or just chance that the card did you reach you. If they had planned their foolishness well, they would not have been late in sending you the card.

Don`t people have a right to be as foolish as they want so long as they don`t hurt you and expect you to be as foolish?

I don`t get this Nehruvian desire to rid India of all foolishness. What would we have left to celebrate?

kaalchakra:

When did this tradition of delivering invitation cards to the deity start? Before or after the invention of printed invitation cards?

hmm eng-lightenment is not a bad word......

re: dost-mittar # 55

May such jaahilpana increase din doona raat chaugana :)

Seriously, I have a mind to buy a few ramayana/mahabharata video/dvd series sets and gift them to friends with kids.

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If simply knowing your own tradition is jaahilpana, then down with all engligtenment and all knowledge.

hamidm:

I should have added. The nouveau-religiosity among Hindus, especially among the younger folks, is in part due to television. In particular, the two serials - Ramayana and Mahabharat - inculcated a new sense of pride (bigotry?) among Hindus and probably contributed significantly to the vote bank of the BJP. So, people may still not know about their Vedas but they do so about Ramayana and Mahabharat. Also, I have noticed that TV serials and Bollywood are really into religious rituals, which seems to be having their influence; recently I did not receive an wedding invitation until it was too late, apparently, there is a new custom in India whereby the first invitation has to be hand-delivered to your favourite deity (Vaishno Devi in that particular case). Yes, Farzana, we too have our share of Jaahils - Ek dhoondo hazaar miltay hain!

Masadi,

You cannot create a coherent argument without throwing in jargons and indulging in ad-hominems.

If you have a GUTS theory that you think has been revealed in the message then tell us how, than trying to abuse Gill Saheb and others.

Till then we can only laugh at your self conceited `knowledge` about your ``truths``.

``you have yet to understand strong arguments for the proof of existence of god.``

I have already provided atleast 50 `proofs` for existence of God on the Chowk on other boards - and all of them were `good` enough for any looney who wants to buttress his faith through `proofs`.

The issue of ``faith`` versus ``reason`` has been the centre of debate in christian theology since ages and the only honourable solution for those who want to keep their faith is by not indulging in sophistry. One can understanding God and his message only through the language of ``metaphors`` as Gill Saheb rightly suggests and not through ``science``.

Theology and spirituality can never be a ``science`` and hence trying to construct ``proofs`` is a futile excercise.

It`s an essay - of whatever quality - about God, and we can`t discuss it without calling one another a-holes, idiots, super-idiots, feeling offended, being guilty, making others guilty, throwing petty tantrums etc etc. :)

God does have a strong effect on some people.

#37 by hamidm2:

You have got a few things wrong. Perhaps you should hang out with Muslims too occasionally and you will find to your utter surprise that they aren`t burping some ayat into their beards after saying Alhamdollilah following the tequila shot. For a people with rather well-defined jawlines it is a pity that they choose to cover their chins, isn`t it? But then we assume they all do so.

Your query has been answered by all the nice, liberal Hindus here. This `karma` business is such a fright. It isn`t, as DMji suggests, all about taking responsibility for your actions. It is about sowing what you reaped in the last birth. So, your friends at the bar were probably amnesiacs in their last birth and forgot all about their religion in this one. Besides, reciting something by rote does not constitute religiosity. It is about how you have internalised your conditioning.

I don`t understand this: why is it okay if a Hindu believes in rituals and passes it off as religion but a Muslim doing a bit of bending and stretching is considered `jaahil`? Only because the Muslims have one book and the Hindus have like four Vedas, a few epics, and the Upanishads and Bhagwad Gita? That is a hell of a lot of written material to go through to call a religion a ``way of life``.

If some Muslims behave like idiots it is because they have not got those choices.

If, as Anil says, simply saying I am a Hindu is enough, then why do many Muslims who say `I am a Muslim` have to go through racial profiling? Two goddamn Indian doctors are suspected in the UK failed bombings and it becomes an issue about 160 million Indian Muslims. I know, I know, this is seen as more whining from IMs...but isn`t it `evil` (to return to the subject being discussed)?

Re. your # 13:

[fv,

``Can evil transform into goodness at some point in time?`` ......... of course - haven`t you heard the saying ``she is so bad, she is good !``]

Unfortunately, I have got to hear more often that she is so bad she couldn`t get any worse!

Be well...
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PS to the one who is concerned: One does not degrade oneself by where one is but what one is and how one conducts oneself. I am okay; it is indeed the power of my will that makes me do what I do. Thanks for the suggestion, though.