What Lies Beneath: Dispatch from the Frontlines of the Burqa Brigades

http://www.cbc.ca/national/blog/video/internationalus/eyewitness_account.html

Fawzia - Thank you for the tour of Lal Masjid.

It's sad when Pakistani citizens die for no reason. I feel sorry for the young people who were brain washed in the Lal Masjid. Moreover I also feel they were used by Musharraf for political mileage- to show the world what could happen to Pakistan if not for him; it's not true of course because most Pakistanis are simply fed up with this fundamentalist nonsense. The problem is that when a dictator like Musharraf tries to impose order and demand respect for the law, people look and laugh at the clown. Not for his bad English, silly posturing and ignorant remarks but also beacuse of his lack of credibility. After all Musharraf seized power by disrespecting the laws and constitution of Pakistan- if he can break laws why should the common citizens follow it- Monkey see and monkey do. That's why we need a return to a functioning democracy- good or bad it is our destiny!

Re: # 660

Indian door is wide open for you...why wait?

haideri

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If our neighbors are macacas, then why is there a lower species of monkeys driving the bus that is called Pakistan?

Parvaiz Musharraf`s stupidity in this premature assault on the Lal Masjid and the ensuing massacre of numerous men, women, and children explains the lack of strategic or tactical thinking in Pakistan`s military and civilian leadership. This also helps explain why the Paki Army has NEVER won a war - even against an enemy who was practically beaten by its own lack of preparedness (1965 war).

Which stupid general would allow his forces to be trapped a thousand miles away while fighting a superior force and a rebellious local population?

Which stupid general would abandon his attacking troops in enemy-held territory and not provide them air cover while the enemy blasted them with full air superiority?

Which stupid leader would unleash his/her own armed forces against his/her own fellow-citizens in a prolonged war costing thousands of lives and years of patriotism?

The Paki Army has killed far more Bengalis, Pathans, Mohajirs, Baluchis, and even Sindhis than the Indian Army. It has now even started to kill fellow Punjabis.

Pakistan is often compared to Israel - both being born of religious motivation. How many Israelis or Jews has the IDF killed in its 60 year history?

Re: # 657

bubba

You say:

``Why in the world were the fundamentalists anti-China?``

Why should they not? When: Firstly, the Chinese are the self-confessed `Kafirs`, and secondly, it was the abduction of Chinese women which lead to the military operation against Fundoo terrorists, using the Lal Masjid like Lal Qillah.

In the words of Allama Iqbal:

``Paasban mil gae Kahbe ko sanam khane se``

It is perhaps the `Kufars` of China who can now save us Muslims of Pakistan from the onslaught of Fundoo terrorists.

This burqa thing! I was in Dubai recently, in the Ibn Batuta Mall ( The period architecture is fabulous), a mother in full burqa had a child with her. She let the child out of the pram to play, and as all children do, the child periodically ran into the lap of her mother for security
Since the mother was the only one in burqa and she had her attention on the child, it was fine. It just set me thinking, if there were a couple of score mothers all covered from head to toe, and their children with them, how would the children identify their mothers in a crowd of black veils?

For once it appears that Pakistanis would not be regarded as extremists in the international community. If Musharraf would only continue this cleansing of extremists strategy, from all parts of Pakistan, he would be considered as Pakistan`s ``Ata Turk``. He must stop playing the fence strategy and work with forces of modernity to bring Pakistan into the 21 century. Lot of foreign capital is just waiting for Pakistan to clean up it`s mess. One such capital inflow would be from China, waiting to expand its manufacturing base in Pakistan. Why in the world were the fundamentalists anti-China?

#652 by tahmed32

...What is arrogant about saying that lal masjid is a police action along the lines of Waco, Texas?

Waco Texas was handled by one of many US Govt agencies called the Alcohol & Tobacco Bureau, not even the Police, let alone the US Military or paramilitary. This one was commanded by no less than the Corps Commander Rawalpindi, the entire 111 Brigade was deployed, as well as SSG. Was it a Police action?

This article lacks depth and maturity.Period.

The Chowk Staff should know better than to allow the ridiculous exchange of pictures. Pointless really.

This article lacks depth and maturity.Period.

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zeemax #636 What is arrogant about saying that lal masjid is a police action along the lines of Waco, Texas? I think I am merely being accurate with respect to this specific episode.

On the other hand, if you wish to consider lal masjid as being part of a broader war between Islamists and the nations of the world, ), then you are right. Lal masjid would under that definition be considered one minor battle in a broader war.

But then - the people of Pakistan, by not supporting the lal masjid maulvis and in fact treating them as jokes and criticizing musharraf for allowing them to carry on their mischief for so long and not acting sooner, have spoken louder than any words on which side they stand in this broader war!! This then provides yet more visible proof (in addition to their humiliating defeats in elections to maulvis in Pakistan) on the lack of support for Islamists in Pakistan. Who in his right mind is going to support a movement that calls essentially for giving up the right to vote in favor of a would-be khalifa?

Mantolives #641 {``All of you can hope, pray and wish for whatever doomsday scenario but Pakistan has come out on top. ``}

Manto Bhai,
I love the way you can spin every hemorrhoid into a beauty spot. :)

Let`s see:

Falling down is good because it teaches children to walk carefully.
Failing in exams is good, because students learn to try harder.
Getting raped is good experience, because it prepares you for the eventual gang rape.
Breaking up is good because all is fair in love and war.
Getting fired is good, because you have to look for a new job and better opportunities.
Divorce is good, because living in hell on earth is worse.
Massacres are good because they alleviate over population.
Stealing is good because you learn to work more efficiently.
Dying is good because you go back to your Creator (not to mention the houries).
The collapse of Pakistan is great, because we will be able to rebuild a much better country.

Durrani, a former ISI chief said:
{``Regardless of their ideology, when the government kills people it creates a reaction,`` }

That is the essence of Dictator Mushy`s fallacy. Let`s see what it does for his phalussy? *-) If the effect of this pyrrhic victory lasts longer than 4 hours, then it`s Mushy who got fucked.

Re: # 645

Yasser:

You know that I support you.

I would like to believe that Pakistan came out stronger. You may need to convert this into Pakistan`s victory.

Last thing I hope that democrats in Pakistan now do is support perpetuation of Military rule.

I would love to read what Benazir Bhutto had to say, where can I get it?

#641 mantolives {``All of you can hope, pray and wish for whatever doomsday scenario but Pakistan has come out on top. ``}

Manto Bhai,
The void of sagacity in our military leaders is understandable, but you should know better. Pakistanis were told that the loss of East Pakistan was a blessing in disguise and that with a more ``homogenous`` Pakistan and without the albatross of Bengalis, the country would fare better.
I love the spin you ``liberal`` elitists put on every setback. At this rate of tragedies, we are bound to be the leading nation of Asia if not the whole world pretty damn soon.

Quoting Bezamir Bhutto about peace, compromise, or sound judgment is a non-starter. With her own record of murdering Karachiites, including her own dear brother, she is the last person to talk about what`s good for Pakistan. I seriously think that she is on a vengeance spree against all Pakis for the murder of her father.

#645 by Mantolives on July 10, 2007 10:48am PT


Absolutely.


Strongeris a relative term...If you wash your hands after you take a dip in a tub of shit, you are technically cleaner than when you were in the tub...

anil #637 {`` No matter how one looks at it, Pakistan lost today.``}

Anil,
You are absolutely right, brother.

And I feel this way when I am a confirmed secular, anti-Mullah, anti-Sharia, anti-Hudood, anti-Madrassa, anti-bearded fundos, anti-Hijab, and pro-massage, pro-Hiram Andy, and pro-mini Sari person.

Re: # 642


``Can you honestly say, that today, Pakistan became stronger?``

Absolutely. Without a doubt. I know the religious bigots from our side and Indians like to think otherwise... but I think a clear message has been sent.

I suggest you try following what Benazir Bhutto just said in her interview... instead of listening to the nay sayers and prophets of doom that lurk on these boards.

#641 by Mantolives on July 10, 2007 10:32am PT


but PakistanMushy has come out on top.


there...fixed it..

didn`t I tell you`all that mushy isn`t going anywhere and when it comes to a choice between what allah wants and what amrika wants, we all know who wins....

#637 by anil,

that either respond to every whim of the west, or east ( = China) as many are now pointing.

That is the next tragedy which has occurred. It is widely believed China advocated a Tiananmen Square solution. But what people forget is that in the Chinese mindset, crushing a few hundred or thousand citizens holds little meaning. The People`s Liberation Army is a ruthless killer in their own country but the population accepts that because it was the same PLA which brought them out of serfdom. Besides, the Chinese identity is homogeneous.

Not so in case of Pakistan. The army is not seen as a benefactor but an oppressor, and the national identity is split.

Re: # 641

No Yasser, it does not.

Can you honestly say, that today, Pakistan became stronger?

The resolve among those who want extreme certainly grew stronger. Please study the parallel with Vietnam. The battle there was also between two ideologues, communism (= fundamentalist), and the U.S. Throughout its stay, the U.S. kept propping up one general or the other, proclaiming one sham election or the other as validity of a democratic government or the other. Almost a generation after the Vietnam war, Vietnamese realize that they would have been better off choosing a democratic and market driven economy.

Mistakes are also made by humans, Yasser.

Re: # 637

This is just another analysis which builds on the thesis that Pakistan is about to be talibanised. There was popular outcry against the Mullahs and the Lal Mosque.

All of you can hope, pray and wish for whatever doomsday scenario but Pakistan has come out on top.

Manto...don`t despair...Pakiland is #1 globally in the M&J list...that`s mullahs and jihadis list..

India 2nd in global M&A deal rankings


India has been ranked second in the global M&A deals this year so far in the Asia-Pacific region, with a total outbound deal value of $13.5 billion, a latest report says.

According to data complied by global consultancy firm Dealogic, Australia tops the Asia-Pacific cross-border outflow with over 125 deals worth $30 billion, followed by India with a total of 74 foreign acquisitions in the current year so far.

Some of the significant outbound cross-border deals include Suzlon Energy`s [Get Quote] acquisition of REpower for $1.7 billion, Vijay Mallya-led United Spirits [Get Quote] buying out Whyte & Mackay for $1.11 billion, Tata Power [Get Quote] picking up stake in two Indonesian firms and Essar Group`s purchase of Canadian Algoma Steel for about $1.55 billion.

India`s cross-border M&A deal value has more than doubled this year from about $5 billion in the same period in last year, the report said.

#634 by Mantolives on July 10, 2007 10:16am PT


Mahatma Ghazi Amar ho gaye!


Uh-oh...does this mean that the 72 virgins he gets will be his grand-neices?

#606 by zeemax on July 10, 2007 9:24am PT


aww....peemax has his knickers in a twist....good thing he`s wearing a burkha..

tell me: what happens to the dead ninja chix? do they become one of the virgins due the Haroon soldier? or do they get 72 male virgins?

Musharraff lost his mind to play this out right at front and center. No matter how one looks at it, Pakistan lost today. This game played out in the open only strengthens that today the gap between two ends of Pakistani spectrum. Time will prove that Pakistan has thus become more unstable. The U.S. support to South Vietnam’s generals did not result in victory for South Vietnam, if anything; South Vietnam simply disappeared into communist North Vietnam. Even today, the scenes of the flight of boat people, fall of Saigon are quite vivid in my memory.

How deeply these fundamentalists are rooted in Pakistani society, compared to the military rule, or the form of democracy Pakistani military wants to bring in, is the most important question.

Can military create a populist alternative?

No doubt, Pakistani army may have played Kargil in the city center of Islamabad, and this time won it too. What is the cost? It certainly cannot be measured in terms of human lives lost alone, I am not sure anyone is counting its cost to Pakistan. Only a couple of days earlier, in response to Zeemax, I had written that Musharraff should escort these mullahs out FATA or somewhere, which is where one of the decisive battles against fundamentalist terrorism will be fought. This would have been a prudent strategy.

I suppose, sanity goes out of the window when two ideologues settle their scores. I cannot believe that Musharraff or Pakistan is so weak that either respond to every whim of the west, or east ( = China) as many are now pointing.

Isn’t there anything called Pakistani interest, Pakistani dream, or Pakistani identity? I do wonder.

#629 by tahmed32,

Your arrogance sends shudders down my spine. You can`t even see a war when it`s in front of your eyes.

#626 by tahmed32,

tahmed, look. Are you aware of all the terms negotiated last night? It was agreed with the delegation that everyone inside would be given safe passage to wherever they wanted to go EXCEPT Abdul Rashid who would be placed under house-arrest in his native Rojhan Jamali, Dera Ghazi Khan, and the due course of law would be followed. Ghazi had agreed to the due course of law for himself as well as screening of the rest for any proclaimed offenders, but had insisted on the rest being let go free.

Musharraf changed that to safe passage for ONLY Abdul Rashid and not the rest. This, he rejected and hung up the phone saying the talks were over. There were some minor points changed as well like it was agreed the Jamia would be handed over to the federation of madrassas, which was changed to the Auqaf Deptt of the Govt.

There was a press conference of the Ulema delegation today headed by the 80 years old Mufti Rafi Usmani who had arrived in a wheelchair from NY just for this. He blamed the Govt for sabotaging the talks and said all of Jamia Hafsa were `Shaheeds`.

Google.com please.

Mahatma Ghazi Amar ho gaye!

Dear Bilal Bhai, another message for you and your dad ....

%^&* YOU BOTH

Please tell your a*(&^^% of a bemedaled, spectacled, election-hungry, wardi framosh, bloodthirsty, authoritarian, egotistical, stupid, violent, canine rearing, c&^#%^&*(%$, madar f^%$#@^, feline slurping, bush-whacking, bush ass kissing, Laura`s Bush m*%$^&^$, b^%$#@& of a military dictator, that many of us Urdu-speaking Mohajirs are very upset with his murderous behavior.

What was his rush? Was he really paying for his goons by the hour?

He could have waited this whole thing out, but no! The a&^%*($ had to prove that his election could last no more than four hours.

I hope that Lady Flatulance gets her free ticket to Islamabad and f&^%$ in your face as she bites the tentacles off your bloody father.

Just tell the Muttarwa m&^%$&^%$ never to bring his black ass to Karachi again - we will shove the corrupt CJ up his pompous a%^.

Re: # 628

I think you have lost the plot..........Moroni saab......Pls do take care of your health.......If need be we can sponsor you to a hospital in India........anyway the prognosis will happen after you have been given ``shock therapy``........no..no Dont put your fingers into that electric socket......thats not shock therapy........moroni sahib........thats electrocution MORON..........

Re: # 613

{The war of Independence is not over}

Totally agreed, Muslims war of independence against religious extremism, tyranny and fascism is not over, it has just started.

Re: # 613

History is replete with forgotten names, Rashid Pajee will be just another name added to that list. Fact is, these dumbass religious extremist have yet to demonstrate any political vision or foresight, all they can do is express hatred and act the victim, that doesnt help.

As for the funeral, every person is entitled to their final rites, enjoy.

#627 zeemax: this was hardly a war. more of a police action of the Waco, Texas kind, except at a larger scale.

#625 chennai: so the best you can do to back your evaluation that I am a moron is to point to a typo. duh!

#623 by tahmed32,

Yes they could have stayed out of range, but certainly you don`t fight wars out of range. When Col. Haroon came in their sights, they killed him. I`m not denying Col. Haroon`s bravery, but I won`t call him shaheed.

#622 zeemax: agreed - but a conjecture based on solid facts. namely, that after more than 20 people getting killed, mullah rashid faced death by hanging as his only viable option. If he didnt care about his own life, he should have cared for the lives of those among his former followers who would have gotten out of this alive if he had allowed them to leave.

Not really moroni,

the froth coming out of our mouth is enough to ``electrocute you``

What you posted last was ``620`` moroni........the earlier post was ``612``

you gotta stop this froth ``shocking`` you.......if you are capable of that........

#621 by cliftonbridge,

It is true because Abdul Rashid said this. As we know now, he didn`t tell a single lie either before or during the whole episode.

As for the army, yes I agree. They did prolong it expecting a wholesale surrender, which never came.

#618 zeemax: The fact that you cannot deny is that Col Haroon was killed and two of his officers wounded. They could easily have stayed out of the view of anyone holed up inside the mosque.

#616 by tahmed32,

This is a mere conjecture. The way he conducted himself since the entire 8 days does not indicate that at all.

Re: # 618

how do you know this Zee? you dont. Either way, its certainly true that the army tried to minimize loss of life and thereby put themselves in harms way.

chennai #619 ``you run a high risk of being ``shocked`` into submission...........``

are you threatening me, you twit?

Re: # 612

``#620 chennai: so, sitting before your keyboard, you see me frothing and foaming? Do you see any saffron elephants floating in mid-air as well?


Not really bcause ``620`` as you call it has not happened......Guess the froth is going into the monitor as well now........

Take care........you run a high risk of being ``shocked`` into submission...........

#611 by tahmed32,

Yes the Government story is he was killed laying explosives at the boundary wall. That is BS. He was killed by a sniper while sticking his head out of the APC top inspecting the situation.

If you believe a lieutenant colonel would be out laying explosives personally, you must be quite mad.

cliftonbridge #304 Greetings. Let us hope hamidm will re-evaluate his thinking. :-)

zeemax: mullah rashid knew that he would be hanged if caught, given the number of lives lost during the standoff. so, he merely caused additional lives to be lost in trying to stave off the inevitable. hardly the actions of a ``ghazi``!!

contd ... #606

Kindly note that S.O.B running away instead of helping his colleague. The caption read that he died as well later.

Watch closely:

TAhmed is totally right , individuals from the pakistani army have put themselves in harms way to protect even those opposed to them. Those people are the true patriots , muslims, humanists.

Hamidm your concept of guilt is a little too wide. If stupidity is the only sin then you`d be right, but a lot of these people have never hurt a fly and now they are dead. Thats nothing to celebrate.

From echoboom

#599 by rf786
``
Besides, the Governor of Punjab, civil and military officials including high officials of Army, Navy and Air Force were also present in the prayer.``

Haaaa Haaaa Haaaa.
They were on duty..and they were getting paid while pocketin savaab on the side.

Just wait to see how the Cantonment & colony canines will muzzle Muslims from offering prayers for the Ghazi-Shaheed ( are you even aware of the powderkeg this name carries now?)..but the inheritors of the legacy of the Britto Baboons have been doing such stuff since 1857.

The war of Independence is not over.

Kanjaroons will not be be given respite to live with their westoxicated minds.

#620 chennai: so, sitting before your keyboard, you see me frothing and foaming? Do you see any saffron elephants floating in mid-air as well?

#608 hamidm. disagreeing with you does not make someone an idiot.

You think those women and children`s lives were not worth risking lives of Pakistani soldiers to save. I think they were, for the simple reason that at the time of the standaoff they were victims. This may seem a fine distinction to you - but this is what the rule of law is all about, i.e. due process. Think about it, and we can then talk.

While it was not Col Haroon`s duty to put his own life in danger in trying to save those women and children (he could have ordered his men to do that), the fact that he did so brings honor to him and honor to Pakistan.

Re: # 605

Dear tahmed.........you are in serious need of professional help... pronto......your have started foaming & frothing from your mouth....help for you is available gratis in CLUB GITMO.........You got to make a reservation there right away.....you fit the profile of their members ditto.........

Re: # 577

Hamid Maadrate

((((ideologues like philosopher and zeemax are devoid of humanity and like their messiah, abdul rashid ghazi, they love death more than most people love life )))))

where was this huminity and dukh dard bhari dialogue baazi when you uttrered this stinking gao-muttar?l;

from #280 hamid

((((i think it is time to drop a 20,000 pound bomb on the denizens of lal masjid and dispatch them to hell where they can carry on their demented orgy)))))

Re: # 602

tahmed,

you idiot ! ....... i fully agree with you that col haroon lost his life because he was trying to save those miserable lives ......... but it was unnecessary .......... i disagree with your contention that those lives were `innocent` .......... those women and children were not ionnocent bystanders or `human shields` - they were active participants in the mad mullah`s enterprise ..........

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#597 by arjun2,

Yaar they didn`t go begging like this:

chennai #601: Look at your face in the mirror to answer your question about what is a pandit-hate. Read your posts on chowk to see why you are a pandit-hate.

As for skipping medicine, I have been skipping your posts, not my medicine. And muy medicine happens to be a multivitamin, not lithium which is what I have been prescribing to your uncle Jay Thakeray and your cousin Arjun monkeyman and other pakistan-obsessed freaks who come to chowk every day to tell us why they couldnt care less about Pakistan.

Are thief`s who rob people of thoughts based on some idealogy any different that thief`s who rob people of wealth? Both seem to be thiefs, except for some it is OK to steal some people`s belief`s and way of living.

#588 by hamidm2,

Well ... that reminds me of Lt General (Retd) Javed Nasir`s GEO interview who when asked re his future plans, said he was preparing for the grave because that`s where the real life starts.

So you`re right again.

hamidm #596 Reason you find it hard to believe that Col Haroon put his life in danger to save innocent lives is because you dont value those lives. Sure - those lal hafsa women stepped way out of line when they kidnapped, intimidated and branded those helpless women as ``prostitutes``. Perhaps some of the children will grow up to be criminals. Nevertheless, at the time of the standoff, these women and children were victims. So, Col Haroon and his men did the right thing, and by going above and beyond the call of duty lived up to the finest traditions of the Pakistani military regardless of what one thinks of military rule.

Re: # 595

What the hell is ``pandit hates``.........I think you have been skipping not only your medicines but also various posts here.........Pls do rectify that, if possible........

Islam zinda hota hai hur karbala ke baad?

yeah tell that to OBL Taliban and other sunni supremists. Amazing how the jihadophrenics can always unite for about 5 secs conning people into thinking they are in any way a uniform movement.

Funeral prayer of Lt. Col. Haroon Islam offered in Lahore
Updated at 2040 PST
LAHORE: The funeral prayer of Shaheed Lt. Col. Haroon Islam of Pakistan Army’s special services group, who was killed in the Lal Masjid operation, has been offered in Ayub Stadium, located in Lahore Cantt. Area. He will be laid in the graveyard of the martyrs of 3 Sindh Regiment.

Besides, the Governor of Punjab, civil and military officials including high officials of Army, Navy and Air Force were also present in the prayer.

Ghazi killed in operation silence: Reports
Updated at 1855 PST
ISLAMABAD: The deputy chief of Lal mosque Abdul Rasheed Ghazi has been killed in operation silence lunched against the militants holed up in the Lal mosque, the Interior ministry sources said on Tuesday.

A bullet had hit in a leg of Ghazi during gunfire and he was also asked to surrender after he was injured but he refused and was ultimately killed, some sources said.

Mr. Ghazi was killed in firing by some militants who were hiding along with him when he came out of a bunker and was heading to surrender, the other reports said.

Meanwhile, Interior Secretary Syed Kamal Shah has confirmed that the deputy chief of Lal mosque Abdul Rasheed Ghazi was killed in operation silence lunched against the militants holed up in the Lal mosque.

Ghazi was killed in a bunker as a result of cross firing during the operation silence, he said while talking to Gen News.

The military authorities have also confirmed the death of Abdul Rasheed Ghazi.

Abdul Rashid Ghazi, a militant Islamic cleric who had vowed to die with his students inside an Islamabad mosque rather than surrender to Pakistani forces, once had a relatively moderate lifestyle.

Ghazi, the deputy leader of the Red Mosque, was holed up in a basement with several women and children on Tuesday after troops raided the compound, officials said. At least 58 people have died in the assault.

#572 by zeemax on July 10, 2007 8:12am PT


be more close to the ``ground-realities``


your jihadi buddies and ninja chix sistas are closer the the underground realities...6 ft underground realities...

Re: # 589

tahmed,

``Those women and children and even young men misled by the power-hungry maulvis may have been misled, but that does not make their lives any less precious as that of any other individual on earth. ``

........... i beg to disagree - these people were not misled; nobody came to their homes and forced them to send their children to the madrassa........... they did it because they `believe` in this insidous ideology that tom friedman mentions ............ and no, their lives are not as precious as col haroon`s - he was a fine soldier who did his duty but the loss of his life was unnecessary ........ the women and children he was trying to save will not thank him - as a matter of fact if they had the chance, they would try to kill him ............. he died because the government wanted to limit the political damage ......

chennai: I can ``quibble`` all I want with fellow Pakistanis. However, I have no interest in the views of pandit-hates like you from India, and you are welcome to believe whatever makes you happy. That is no problem for us Pakistanis.

Re: # 592

Thanks for your gesture.......I think more than funds the important thing is to ensure that we have a working mechanism in place for counselling these kids.....

Prakash

Re: # 589

Tahmed......stop quibbling......are you a moron who cannot understand the implications of these forces that were unleashed......and their implications on the kids.......the future citizens of Pakistan.

Re: # 577

Hamidm sahib:

I will sponsor one girl child`s education.

Hamidm

My family is no different. We all pray to different gods, and have fun discussing why each one of us does what he or she does. It`s a complete zoo! :)

Re: # 582

I did not berate our victorious glorious army, I instead send salams for getting us rid of the threat to civilization caused by these 8th, 10th, and 12th graders. And if you insist I can also salute na-pak fouj for putting an end to the ``distraction`` for good, which was getting in the way of the movement for democracy against themselves.

hamidm #561 ``.......... it is a shame and a crime that innocent security forces people had to die because they wanted to save women who will now go out to bear more jihadis, and children who will grow up to become bloody murderers ........... all those miserable lives are not worth one dead pakistani soldier ......... ``

Wrong again.

First, Lt. Col. Haroon ul Islam laid down his life at the head of his men, and attempting to free women and children from the ghoondas hiding behind them. This is in the finest of military traditions. While a tragedy for his family, no doubt, he has also made all true Pakistanis proud. The only shame is that you are unable to see anything postive in Pakistan. I am proud that all Pakistanis - musharraf, religious parties, non-religious parties, ordinary citizens, and above all our brave military soldiers - did their utmost to save those precious lives. We can only pray that these hafsa women and the parents who placed their trust in these maulvis will have learnt something from this episode.

Second, every life is precious as your own. Those women and children and even young men misled by the power-hungry maulvis may have been misled, but that does not make their lives any less precious as that of any other individual on earth.

Re: # 584

zeemax,

... that`s why i suggested that the government should take away these children from their parents ........ like you, these people belong to the school of death - the other `mindset` that kaal talks about ...............

Qatl-e-Abdul Rashid asal mein marg-e-Pervez Musharraf. Islam zinda hota hai har Karbala ke baad.

#570 by hamidm2,

...... as someone on bbc pointed out this morning, there are two pakistans -

That is true. And I have said this many times. There`s one Pakistan you know well, but there`s another Pakistan you know nothing about.

Re: # 581

kaal,

``India`s diversity is more on the surface. Your diversity is of real mindsets``

............ very true ...... even within my family i know some folks who seem to be from another planet - batagram (and you thought it was a fictional place !)

#577 by hamidm2,

Hamidm, if you call these kids indoctrinated, how do you explain that nearly all parents sitting outside, when asked why didn`t they take their children home when the siege first began, said their kids were doing nothing wrong. Some even said they were not there to take away their children, but their bodies.

Re: # 577

Dear hamidm2 ........I am not sure how well the Govt (Any Govt) is equipped to handle this........We need professional child physcologists for this.......not sure how many are there in Pakistan.......

Your suggestion on a fund is most welcome.....I second it.....We need a good number cruncher to work out the details.....I am generally wary of funds being sent to the sub-continent.........You know why......However the over riding issue is to get these kids back to a semblance of normalcy.......More suggestions are welcome.............

Prakash

Urstruly 578 You always sounded hollow when berating the Pakistan army for doing anything to oppose the foreign ghoondas trying to take over the tribal areas. But never as hollow as now, when berating the Pakistan army for taking out these two-taka thugs in lal masjid dreaming of becoming khalifas of Pakistan.

With the distraction provided by these ghoondas taken care of, Pakistanis can get back to the struggle for democracy.

hamdim

``as someone on bbc pointed out this morning, there are two pakistans.``

That`s a very old idea. The Atlantic Weekly archives might hold some very good articles on that theme. In Pakistan the question has always been (as clear to outsiders) which of the two very different Pakistans will pull the other closer to itself (hopefully, avoiding bloodshed).

India`s diversity is more on the surface. Your diversity is of real mindsets.

Re: # 565

{Well all the men fought to the last bullet, just as they had promised. Rashid Ghazi was wounded but stsill didn`t accept offer to surrender and was killed}

On the contrary, Rashid Pajee wanted to surrender but was shot by his own militants. So u r partly right, he was killed but by his own people.

Re: # 565

Pee Wax

{Whatever girls remain now, will carry on the movement}

Are u talking about these girls:

Lal Masjid: 50 women, one dozen children rescued ISLAMABAD, July 10: Security forces rescued about 50 women and nearly a dozen boys from the basement of the Lal Masjid complex as Operation Silence completed eight hours, private TV channels reported. A teenage boy came running out one of the 70 rooms at the basement and enabled troops to rescue the trapped women and children in the rooms at the basement. No resistance or exchange of fire took place is this rescue operation, reports said. Among those rescued were Umme Hassan, wife of captured Maulana Abdul Aziz, and their daughter, the TV reported. (Posted @ 14:22 PST)

NA-PAK FOUJ KO SALAM, ON THEIR LATEST CONQUEST

This time they have conquered a school in Islamabad