What Lies Beneath: Dispatch from the Frontlines of the Burqa Brigades

#153 by neembu,

Yeah ... so I pointed to the famous hyphen sticking out from in between something ... so what?

arjun: how is our monkey-man doing today apeing muslims?

I would not have interacted here, but for that silly little complaint alleging that I have been blaming the environment here on female interactors! Some people love to take the credit, though they do not indeed come out smelling of roses themselves. Anyway, thanks for sending people to my ilog.
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Fawzia:

[#97 by fak0912 on July 6, 2007 2:52pm PT
Re: # 95
Nonsense! This is public space, and as such, we need to fight for our words and ideas to circulate freely in it. Those who have garbage in their heads should be free to expose that--it is the rest of us who can and should see it for what it is and dismiss it.
I stand behinf my right to say what I need to say. Hopefully, there are intellignet and non-sexist folks out there (yes, even in Pakistan!)--who can apprecaite and critique what women like me have to say without falling into the gutter.]

However you choose to view my `specious entry` (I would ignore it if I did not know the history of what is going on here or perhaps smile a bit because you come out as your post above clearly reveals - as someone too comfortable in her own skin to bother about others), let me tell you what I told someone who said each time I interacted here I degraded myself: I said, “One does not degrade oneself by where one is but what one is and how one conducts oneself.”

So, it would be nice if you stayed on. There are several interesting women who write here.

Coming to the few points: I was in Islamabad last month. My being Indian and trailed was a huge barrier and I did not want to risk my ‘other’ activities which will see fruition. Getting into Jamia Hafsa is welcomed by those who run it because they feel they can get their point across, much as terrorist groups do. I am sure you did not look on it as an awfully brave thing to do; am sure you have done more courageous things.

While your narrative was interestingly put across, there were grammatical errors, and you might observe them yourself. This may not be the most important thing, but it just adds to a clean copy.

You have used the term “sexy” for the label given by the liberals to the JH women. Do you believe it is right or wrong? I ask because there has been some protest about references to your looks. It reveals the mindset of the people making the comments and, heck, if I say George Clooney looks like a porn star would men take umbrage? And, if looks are not the criterion, then they should not be brought into any discussion, not just ‘intellectual. Watch how some will make those ‘sotto voce’ comments purportedly aligning with the ‘voice of feminism’, as though feminism is a cattle herd…

I have worked among commercial sex workers and I find that they (or porn stars or any of the women who use their bodies) need to be seen from a perspective similar, if not the same, as women behind the veil. I had taken up issue when a comment was made about “naachne gaanelwaali” wrt Indian activist-film star Shabana Azmi. I questioned the fact that she conveniently used those very women as role models to prepare for her characters and then objected to such a ‘low’ reference to herself.

Interestingly, at the backend of this site several months ago they had started discussions about whether I was ‘hot enough’ to be congratulated on being made editor of this website. I did not hear the feminist voices objecting. (I have since relinquished the post but I still believe that one should respect the place one occupies, even while critiquing certain aspects of it, or else you are no different than those you rubbish.)

I did not like your stereotype of the ‘ninja’ and would wish that at some point later you do expand on the idea of the “westernized, debauched, elites” of which I am happy to be a part of.

Regards,
FV

PS: This discussion had anyway gone haywire, but apologies for adding to the digression, unwillingly I might add.

#160 by tahmed32,

Number 156 was about your question whether I had read the article .... Why`re you always on the defensive?

Re: # 163

Versey Begum,

Don`t you think your subterfuge is apparent to all? How is that you post your potshots from your ilog and cannot manage the courage to interact with the people you dismiss? On one hand you ilog entry has copypasted my posts on this board (I guess paraphrasing my ideas was too difficult for you), and in this last post you cannot even muster the courage to mention my name.

And yet you continue to post your unfounded innuendos and deny what the inanities of your ilog entry mean...I`m on UP. Kindly bring your unsubstantiated claims there.

The reality is that most terrorists don`t come out of madrassahs....most terrorists, like mohd atta, are well educated....it`s islamic indoctrination that makes them terrorists...all this talk about poverty and education preventing terrorism is crap...education only makes a terrorist an educated terrorist...

the glasdow dr booms were all SIMI types...the type some former editor types are apologists for...

Educated Muslims more vulnerable to terrorism

New Delhi: For the first time since 9/11, India and not Pakistan, has been accused of exporting global terror. Of the eight individuals arrested for the failed car bomb attacks in Great Britain and on Glasgow Airport in Scotland, three were Indian nationals.

And the Indian connection to the UK terror plot is only turning stronger. The Bangalore Police say Kafeel Ahmed, the brother of detained Indian doctor, Sabeel Ahmed, was the man who rammed the jeep into Glasgow Airport.

Police say the brothers were fundamentalists, and used to organise radical meetings.

The suspects that also include Sabeel and Kafeel`s cousin, Mohammed Haneef, are highly educated Muslims who hail from Bangalore.

The question that was being debated on CNN-IBN`s Face The Nation with Sagarika Ghose: Is the educated Indian Muslim becoming vulnerable to the ‘terrorist’ stereotype?

On the panel of experts to discuss the issue were writer and columnist, Farrukh Dhondy; Member Planning Commission, Sayeeda Hamid; The Pioneer columnist, Sandhya Jain; and Member of the Quranic Study Circle, Dr Taha Mateen.

The Face Of Terror

After the attempted attacks in UK, Prime Minister, Manmohan Singh has expressed fear that all Indian Muslims may be stereotyped as potential terrorists - all due to their brown skin and Muslim-sounding names.

Farrukh Dhondy said that it was not unfair for the British Police to become more cautious where brown skinned people were concerned.

However, he added that there had been no racism against the Asians. Instead he said that there been a rise in common sense, a lot of caution and a sense of complete outrage.

But he said that the latest attack might imply the fact that Indian Muslims -- young and highly educated men -- who were till now seen as integrated within India, were being radicalised.

Sayeeda Hamd begged to differ though and said that nobody could be typified and stereotyped. ``Though the needle of suspicion might have gone onto the three men from Bangalore nothing has been proven so far,`` she said.

“To say that the educated Indian Muslim has become radicalised is going in the wrong direction because I also echo the same sentiment that the Prime Minister felt for the Muslims. Terrorism can be from any sect. To say that India has now joined in global terror is an absolutely erroneous thing to do,” she added.

Sandhya Jain responded to this by saying that that the particularism with which Islam has been gripped in the 20th century and earlier in the 19th century always had an educated component in it.

“By emphasing its international aspect, Islam has been less accommodative of nationalism, so when there is a problem with Islam, everybody gets excited particularly volatile groups, so they do not get a result that is fruitful,” she said.

She also brought forth the point that politically, when there is a stable governance in a pro-western country then Muslims are not accountable to the government.

However, there is no denying the fact, that with the attempted terror attacks in the UK, the evidence has gone against the Muslims suspects so far.

Dr Taha Mateen said that for a fallacy of a few young-blooded men, the whole Muslim community was being put on trial and that was unfair. India as a nation was giving full support to the Muslims, but right now, not only India but also the entire world needed to understand how hurt the Muslim community felt.

“Being part of the Muslim community, I do not know how to respond to this. We feel apologetic towards India, towards Bangalore, towards the world and towards the doctor community,” said Dr Mateen.

A Need Of Ideology

The next important question that needed to be answered was - what would have caused a doctor, a healer, to become a part of the ideology of terror?

Dr Mateen felt that one of the reasons for this could be provocation by the media and the Internet, which were full of news and stories on communal lines. ``The Muslim community feels very hurt by this kind of discrimination and becoming a part of the ideology of terror could be one of the ways of hitting back,`` he said.

Farrukh Dhondy agreed with this saying, that since most of those who were suspects in the latest UK bombings were well educated, the reason for becoming a part of a plan like this was more discrimination than anything else.

“I think they get extremely displaced in the value systems of the British society. But the issue that needs more pondering on is that the bombers targeted young children and women,” said Dhondy.

Innocent Until Proven Guilty

Sandhya Jain said that it was not right to say the suspects were guilty before anything was proven.

Muslims were fighting for the respectability for their culture and civilisation. There was a deep-seeded feeling within the Muslims that they were not being given the kind of respect that they needed, she said.

Dr Mateen, meanwhile, was of the opinion that such kind of deep-seeded radical philosophies could not be created in Bangalore.

``These men went to UK, where their opinions and thoughts become radical in nature. Ideas like these simply cannot germinate in places like Bangalore,`` he said.

Farrukh Dhondy rounded up the discussion by saying that mostly there was a problem as there was a crisis of ideology in Islam.

He said that the need of the hour was for the British Muslims to get together and educate and bring up their children in a fashion where they do not feel misunderstood.

The idea of a parody is not to name people...just in case you have not figured that out yet.

[And yet you continue to post your unfounded innuendos and deny what the inanities of your ilog entry mean...I`m on UP. Kindly bring your unsubstantiated claims there.]

If they were unfounded you would not have reacted. If you do not understand what they mean, then perhaps you might like to ignore it. And if I have copy-pasted, then how can the claims be unsubstantiated?

You can be where you want to be, just as I can where I wish to. Hope the weather is good in your neck of the woods.

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Chowk staff:

Should you wish to filter out my posts, please feel free to do so. I am aware that they go against the guidelines.

Re: # 165

Yoo hoo... cat fight... :)

Re: # 167

Again Versey Begum, should you care to discuss this like an adult, I can be reached on UP, given a mutually agreed upon time and date. And be assured, my interest is in pursuing the line of discussion about sexual harassment on chowk.com. I have no interest in pursuing cases under litigation. In the meantime, I refuse to get into your games of circular logic.

#152 Neembu

Ama neembu, aap nahak ghussaa ho gayeeN. If you look back at my earlier interact(s) - especially #116, you will realize that my appraisal of THIS write-up is quite positive.

However, the author`s views (from her past articles) are legitimate issues for discussion. I am always interested in probing older write-ups because such write-ups reveal the pattern of their thinking and their rationale.

I am particularly curious regarding those writers who claim to be themselves ``liberal`` but lose no opportunity to blame the problems of the ``Muslim`` world on ``Zionists`` and US foreign policy! A reasonably legitimate argument can be made that there is an element of dishonesty in such a line of thought. Of course, there is no intention to single out THIS author and certainly this web-site is not alone - the cyberworld is teeming with such individuals.

The author`s (photogenic (or otherwise)) looks - which are in the public domain - are an absolute non-issue - and ought to remain so! Your consternation on that account is unwarranted.

#168 by mohar11,

But neembu can`t fight on FP because profanity is her only weapon. So lay off the pop-corn!

Jayaprakash Thackerey,

You may try and distort history all you want... but the facts are that it was Mohandas Gandhi who encouraged religious bigots of all kinds... it was Mohandas Gandhi who encouraged Deobandis into Politics...

And it was MOHANDAS GANDHI on whose ORDERS these VERY MULLAHS abused Jinnah and Pakistan as ``KAFIR-e-Azam`` and ``KAFIRISTAN`` during the Pakistan Movement.

``Thus GANDHI THE HINDU FASCIST GAVE BIRTH TO A NEW KIND OF ISLAM.... a new version of islam called GANDHI version has taken root in that country. Sadly Jinnah`s progressive principles were ignored and a total givernment suppoprt for this GANDHI islam based on the MULLAHISM. The crowining achievemnt that brought it to worlds attention is the demolition of Bhumian Budhas. These statues survived more than 2000 years, through all of the muslim invaders. The hatred for other religions, the core of the GANDHIAN ISLAM, and transmitted to the students of Pak schools resilted in the demolition of the statues.``


The only thing ``Jihadic`` tendencies of the Deobandis can be traced back to subcontinent`s first true terrorist, the racist casteist hindu fascist Bigot Gandhi who encouraged and brought Mullahs into politics... Think about it... was it not then that the Moplahs rose up and attacked Hindus in South India? TNT and Pakistan was no where in sight then. It was thus this Gandhian doctrine of using religion into politics that started the hatred between communities - as warned by not just Jinnah but Motilal Nehru, CR Das and even Tilak- himself a pious Hindu.

Since one sees Moplah uprising the the first of its kind in terms of ``Islamic terrorism`` in the 20th century ... one can easily trace back Islamic terrorism to Gandhiji. So atleast give credit where its due ... my boy.

Speaking about Muslim nationhood which merely envisaged a consociationalist solution to India like an ignorant fool that you are... will only delay the process of understanding this communal hatred which still plagues your ``secular`` India... in a way that it does not plague Pakistan. So go back to the source... it is the evil and poisonous Gandhian ideology that is to blame for communal dischord in South Asia... and as long as Gandhian ideology is hailed and praised, and not buried... India will continue to be plagued with communal violence of the kind that broke out in Ahmedabad.

-YLH

Re: # 168

Mohar ,yup cat-fight along with foaming & frothing from the mouth from you know who........

neembu has an uncanny resemblance to zeena

For all of Jayp`s lies... his ``K for Kafir`` is a lie that he has been repeating consistently...A few days ago... he was embarrassed trying to invent quotes from books that Wolpert never wrote... Now this new lie based on some hear say some where.

Gandhiism is a state of mind. It is darkness at high noon. It is hypocrisy, bigotry and religious fascism all rolled into one. Jayaprakash Thackerey is a true Gandhian.

Re: # 175

PS:

And Auntie Abdul Aziz is Jayp`s Gandhian brother from another mother.