Preventing More Lal Masjids

PM, I was talking about GEO, why I think that it is the CIA medial outpost in Pakistan is listed in previous interacts.

Regarding idolatory, anyone who associates another with Allah is an idolator. If you consider the words of humans to be of greater authority than the words of Allah, you're an idolator. Regarding the messenger, I didn't say the message is the messenger, the Book can be a messenger but the messenger is the one who conveys the message. The prophet was dead, according to that discription, but leaving the dead body as it was and rushing out to other tasks amounts to rushing out and neglecting the prophet at that moment, i.e not seeking his leave. Consider how it would appear if your father had died was lying out in the open ready for burial and you run off to tend to other works, which in this case happens to be a "power grab".

Hey masadi, I just found out that some of the top nuclear physicists have realized that the koran contains the "Theory or Everything" in coded form. Apparently some flying djinn provided them this info.

But you knew this already.

#934 Posted by PM,

PM, the attack was not on the CJ, though everyone is now trying to make political capital out of it. The attack was on PPP. CJ was not in the premises and had the bomber waited half an hour (it was indeed a bomber and not a timed device as lawyers are claiming), he would have got CJ's motorcade. He didn't. He blew up PPP's reception counter. Of-course you know these things are planned and timed with precision.

#931 Posted by PM re. Zee 914:

My point was that, in the absence of incentives in a hereafter, non-believers would be inclined to "think deeper" about whether their cause is better caused by living to fight another day, or by a quick 'martyrdom'. Do you disagree?

Whether their cause is better served by living to fight another day, or by a quick 'martyrdom' depends on the peculiar circumstances of a battle, and that is the choice the warriors are confronted with and one they have to decide.

In case of Jamia Hafsa, it is my opinion that they decided on both choices in equal proportions. Approx half came out to fight another day, and half chose martyrdom to become a symbol of the movement and a rallying cry. That seems like a sound strategy to me under the circumstances.

If all had been killed or all had surrendered, their message would have been significantly weakened. In the first scenario, they would have been declared terrorists and/or renegades and/or cultists with no-one to tell or carry forward the true story. In the second scenario, they would have been painted as cowards having been 'smoked' out.

re. masadi #936
"Note here that this is why I consider Zeemax an idolator. He sees the decision and works of men as being "better" to the words of Allah in the Quran. In fact the Quran talks specifically to believers not to rush out from the presence of the messenger without seeking his leave, "seeking the chance goods of the world". This behavior which he has attributed to the sahaba goes completely contrary to those statements of the Quran,"

Yaar masadi, sometimes you surprise me with your uneasonableness. Wasn't the Messenger already dead at this point when the sahaba left to put out the fire at the Ansaar meeting place? As per your own elucidation, the Rasool is actaully the message, not the person. Can there be a message embodied in a dead Messenger???

Idolator is a strong word. Humans are suspect to blurring the line between message and messenger. That doesn't make them bad, except when the message is relegated or obscured.

I'm outta here... be back in about 12 hrs.

waisaey, masadi, you claimed a while ago that Hamid Mir was an American agent. Are you still of that opinion. What are the reasons you say that?

Zeemax writes "I cannot come up with a better set of rules than when Muhammad's body was lying unburied, and the Quraish had gathered in the Masjid-e-Nabvi awaiting the next Caliph's appointment, and word reached that the Ansaar were preparing to name their own Caliph ... Abu Bakr, Umar and Abu Ubaida had rushed to the Ansaar's meeting place leaving everything aside. If they hadn't done that, Islam would be dead at Muhammad's death. There would have been civil war"


Note here that this is why I consider Zeemax an idolator. He sees the decision and works of men as being "better" to the words of Allah in the Quran. In fact the Quran talks specifically to believers not to rush out from the presence of the messenger without seeking his leave, "seeking the chance goods of the world". This behavior which he has attributed to the sahaba goes completely contrary to those statements of the Quran, and rightly so the Shias have accused them of power grab- whether they did that or not is up for debate. Nevertheless Islam was not saved by people, it was distorted by people. Allah has established his system both in the heavens and on earth, mankind rejects it does not mean it is finished or destroyed, never has it been destroyed, not before the prophet(when it certainly existed, read the Quran fool), not after the prophet either...

re. #925 Zeemax:

Zee, I got down the page and read the first half of the article (my urdu reading is s-l-o-w, having not read much since FSC days).

Khair, I agree with Mir's basic thesis, that there is a disconnect between the two parties to the conflict, though I don't care much for his labelling the Mushy-supporters as 'roshan khayaaloN"-- many of them are anything BUT!

An aside... was watching his program on GEO an hour ago... he had a judge and a PPP spokesperson on... interestingly, both seemed to suggest that the attack on the PPP welcoming camp was most likely NOT a suicide bombing, and that the target was quite possibly the CJ himself, who, had things gone according to schedule, would have probably been present at the very site of the blast when it took place... So you know where the finger is being pointed... interesting...

#931 Posted by PM,

Here is the link. It is by Hamid Mir. It is about the e-mail he received from Iman Yousuf, a girl-student of an English Medium School near the Chineses massage parlour, who was the one who complained to Ghazi about the parlour's activities. It also gives the contents of an SMS from a surviving girl who was pursuaded by Umme-Hassaan to leave on 6th July.

http://ejang.jang.com.pk/jm/7-19-2007/images/05_05.gif

(You may have to log in, but try.)

Zeemax writes "I don't thing masadi is a Muslim BTW. I have come to believe he's waiting for some Mehdi like our friend 'Number' here. "

What you think is immaterial, what Allah thinks regarding my Islam is what matters. Btw I think you're a total idolator, who uses Islamic slogans while having little to no knowledge of what its all about. Also I don't believe in the Mahdi concept, its extra-Quranic through and through, manufactured hadith believers like yourself, are the ones who have borrowed that from Christianity and Judaism and tried to force it unto Islam through the hadith factory...

re. Zee 914:
"Whether it is worth it or not, that is the question. To Muslims, it is worth it. To you it isn't. And that's the mental block I was referring to in #910. "

Zee, bhai, I wasn't suggesting that I necessarily disagreed with those Muslims ready to give their lives at the drop of the hat. My point was that, in the absence of incentives in a hereafter, non-believers would be inclined to "think deeper" about whether their cause is better caused by living to fight another day, or by a quick 'martyrdom'.

Do you disagree?

re. #925: Translation? Of what? Was/Is there an Urdu article attached to the your post? I cancel the page download the moment the first posts appear on my screen, since I'm paying per unit of download, and can really do without the whole 900 interacts, along with pics, to come down. Please post the link to the article if there is one.

#927 Posted by echoboom


[You are named after an Avtar who is highly respected among hindus.

Would it not be nice if you told us about some of his sermons from the Mahabharta?

The questions you have asked and the answers you seek are probably not to increase your wisdom or a desire to embrace Islam..Isn't that so? ]


You have NO good answers. Isn't that so?

#927 Posted by echoboom,

Why don't 'you' tell us about those sermons ... this should be fun ... :)

#921 Posted by echoboom

Certainly if the apostate is hostile toward the Muslims and joins the enemy in a war against them, or tries to corrupt the Muslims in the Muslim lands by trying to convert them to his/her new deviant religion, then the matter becomes different... Ask me any question.

Yes, I have a question:

Does hamidm2 fall in the above category or not???

If the answer is 'yes', then I stand vindicated on the subject. If it is no, I would like to know 'how' and 'what' are the mitigating circumstances in his case?

Krishna-abcd:

You are named after an Avtar who is highly respected among hindus.

Would it not be nice if you told us about some of his sermons from the Mahabharta?

The questions you have asked and the answers you seek are probably not to increase your wisdom or a desire to embrace Islam..Isn't that so?

#921 by echoboom


[Let us look at Noble Verse 3:72 "A section of the People of the Book (Jews and Christians) say: Believe in the morning what is revealed to the believers (Muslims), but reject it at the end of the day; perchance they may (themselves) turn back (from Islam)." To protect Islam from such Satanic attempts done by a group of the people of the book (Jews and Christians), Prophet Mohammed peace be upon him ordered the death of those who enter Islam and leave it. This temporary law that was put by our Prophet had stopped the hypocrites from the People of the Book who carried so much hatred toward Islam to enter Islam and desert it afterwards. ]

Yes. Hitler also wanted to kill the "treacherous" Jews for establishing HIS utopia.



[Ask me any question. ]

Okay. Ummm... is it true that mohammed proposed marriage to a little six-year-old child when he was past middle age with grey pubic hair?



[Essential Reading for all those participating here: reading or interacting.

Only then write/inter-act.]

Mohammed raped a woman the same day he murdered her father and brother (rape - forcing sex on someone unwiilling to have sex). That makes him a monster in everyone's book except for Muslims (who are supposed to be JUST LIKE everybody else).

WHY would ANYONE want to listen to someone like this guy? Especially when on top of all this, according to him, all the info he put down in the Koran was told to him by a winged creature in a cave?

eh?