Preventing More Lal Masjids

[Blair is getting to be in love with catholicism, Hinduism has found its ancient heritage delectable enough to eat, and the Dalai Lama too is giving speeches that don`t sound sweet.]

Also, FV, while chowk is never short of rhetoric on all sides, most Pakistanis might agree that what is happening in Pakistan right now is more important than simply Blair getting in love with catholicism, hindus eating their ancient heritage, and dalai lama not making sweets speeches.....

Whichever direction Pakistan is headed, something more important, politically more potent, seems to be going on, even if it all of it is just a controlled game enacted by Musharraf.

Re: # 31

Kaal:

``....something more important, politically more potent, seems to be going on,....``

Seems to be going on? Are you blind kaal? The line across the sand has been drawn very clearly ... It is the shariat vs. no shariat. And language has evolved. You now no longer need to say that ``I support terrorists``, you say ``I want the shariat to be implemented in the Islamic Republic of whatever``. The fight is constitutional. And the fight has been announced with great fanfare and sacrifice all over the world!

Gazi with burkha .... my foot. I am not laughing and I do not think that we liberals will have the last laugh.

thanks to all well-wishers ..........

especially GT.

But G.T please continue .....CHOWK staff is no different than us..same gear, same equipment...may be a tad smaller! :D ..what the heck!

``Aye Saakinaan-i kunj-i Qafas subha ko saba
Suntee hee jaa-ey Gee, soo-ay Gulzar. Kuchh kaho!``

tr:
O fellow inmates of the Bird-cage, keep singing!
Morning breeze, anon, is on its way to the garden.

{The Lal Masjid crisis is a direct consequence of the ambivalence of General Musharraf’s regime towards Islamic militancy. In part it comes from fear and follows the tradition of appeasement}

Drop scene of Lal Masjid affair is a milestone for Pakistan, much feared and exploited tradition of appeasement has finally come to an end.

Lal Masjid/Hafsa rebellion was the Deobandi/Salafi attempt to maintain status quo of their political domination, but international geoplolitical realities were ignored and deobandi leadership made critical mistake of challenging the rapidly rising new leadership.

It is no surprise that the Barelvi majority Sunni organizations have not criticized the Govt, times have changed and they are preparing for change of guard. Similarly, PPP (BB) and Mqm (AH) both have come out strongly in favor of Govt operation. New political structure for pakistan is in its early stages of formation, annihilation of the terrorist organizations such as JH/LM will only strengthen the moderate forces.

Therefore Dr Hoodbhouy, there is hope, keep writing.

GT

As a greedy, self-interested, self-centered, all self-things, I abandoned liberalism once I realized that liberals are born to cry - first, for a short while, for others and then, in perpetuaity, for themselves.

Jsut some food for thought:

Your analysis is quite traditional in many ways - so is the problem. It is a typical liberal reading of the situation without failing to understand the causes. The many causes that generally people talk about in Pakistan, you ruled out and instead what you pose as possible solutions are not really solutions. These are bandaids that any liberal fearful of such militancy pose, the dismisal is quick and easy which is why the problem grows. Before you start to think of me as a ``radical Islamic`` so and so, I would like to clarify that I bear a leftist perspective and premised on this ideology my tolerance for any brand of Islam that is shoved down anyone`s throat (and which can only then be thrown up with equal vigor) is neither pardonable nor permissible. So, I do not support the usual theological perspective on this issue.

Take out Islam from this equation and what do you have? In my view and many would agree, talibanisation is not about Islam and even those who promote and have promoted its various shades knew that it was not about religion. Let us not insult our intelligence by actually believing that what is usually packed under the rubric of Islam is just that. We all know that people ``use`` religion and this is what Zia`s Islamization programme was all about and Bhutto`s (before him) and Benazir and Nawaz sharif inherited a flawed legacy. What i am trying to point out here is that let us not fall into the trap of religion here and dismiss what has happened in Lal Masjid as ``religious fanatacism`` and so on. That has been done to death. It`s cliched and one is overdosed with this same analysis so much so that there is no way out of this quagmire. Sure, this is a case of biting the hand that feeds you. An example of sour relations between ISI and the Military - Lal Masjid was allowed to store amunition and arms to be used in a classic style reminiscent of Talibans created by Zia - to carry out operations on behalf of the government. There is no other explanation how so much ammo could be brought and stored in Islamabad right under the nose of ISI or the interior ministry without their consent. So, this is not about madrassas this is about the mentality, training and brainwashing that the governments themselves do to these people in order to use them to/for their own benefits. Abolishing madrassahs will not solve the problem since the same thing will raise its ugly head in some other form under the guise of some other half-baked ideology. In the case of lal masjid, things only went to this extent because the militants started using the space given to them, sanctioned by the government and in the end the government had to take a stand because of how things out in the open. Otherwise, it was not their intention to take over the masjid in this manner. I live in Islamabad, I am a Communist, I do not have tolerance for religion being forced on anyone, but I will say this much, I am finding it very difficult to draw a conclusive analysis on this whole thing. We need to look at things from a different perspective, so far media and liberals and diff sections of society alike are towing the same line - but this is not about Islam this is about resistance to the government and all we have done is witnessed it from the perspective of the so-called ``radical cleric``. There is more to all this than meets the eye. This is more about the turmoil brewing in Pakistan and for the much awaited change to come, the tragedy is that people are ready to do it, but there is no leadership.

Re: # 33

Boom sahib,

That was funny. In any case, do not thank me. As you know, I am totally opposed to your ideology (though I have to admit I agree with some of what you say). I am a proud liberaloon, secularoon etc :) I was simply protesting a chowk rule which I think is ridiculous. But welcome back ... you are both fun and knowledgeable.


Kaal:

All that about liberals being cry-babies is fine with me. But what do you think about my ``line on the sand`` hypothesis?

........... tomorrow, as soon as melody food street opens up for dinner, the people of islamabad will forget all about the carnage next door as they dine on spicy bihari kebabs and chicken karahi ........ the jihad will continue in waziristan and on the chowk with the occassional suicide bomber striking a diner at melody before coronary disease ..........

........anybody for a nihari breakfast at barakao tomorrow ? .......... bring your binoculars - if it is a clear day we should have a spectacular view of the battlefield ..........

Echodada, so you will be able to grace chowk fp without any hindrances?! Welcome!!

With your permission, may I express my great admiration for how you described yourself somewhere on unplugged:

[signed:
An chronic.unflinching , and unabashed supporter of the UNDERDOG no, right or wrong, of any caste, creed, color, or bark...anywhere in the world.]

That`s pure genius! :)

Special request: Would you consider keeping most of your cut and pastes on unplugged where we might really enjoy them more?

---

bluegaze

I sure wish our Indian communists were anything like you. Work with Echodada to oppose oppression, and you will find both success and leadership. Best wishes.

GT

Line in the Sand as Reported By Sadna

http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/holnus/001200707102208.htm

Islamabad, July 10 (PTI): Fazalur Rehman Khalil, a militant leader who figures in India`s list of `most wanted` terrorists, was roped in by Pakistani authorities to persuade radical cleric Abdul Rashid Ghazi of Lal Masjid to give in before security forces launched a crackdown on the mosque.

Journalists covering the stand-off between security forces and militants holed up in the Lal Masjid were surprised last night to see Khalil, Head of the outlawed Harkat-ul-Mujahideen, driving into the mosque complex in the same car as the leader of the negotiating team, former Prime Minister, Shujaat Hussain.

Today is a sad day for Pakistan.........Anytime the govt. has to kill its own citizens in the heart of its capital, it should be considered a sad day.......It does`t matter which side one is supporting........The end result is a defeat for Pakistan........

......Violence can never win out against ideas and a legitimate cause.........I don`t think it is possible for the mullah brigade to implement its agenda militantly......Nor is it possible for the military to violently implement its agenda.........

.....What is needed at the moment, is a non-aligned foreign policy (at the very least non-aligned with the USA)..........Anytime Pakistan supports the USA in anything in the region, it results in violence and deaths in Pakistan.......

.........The army needs to move out and be massively downsized.......And somehow the people need to rise up against the land owners and religious right.......

Easier said than done........seems like Musharraf and BB will make a deal, with US support......This will be combined with MQM support........These are the three, ``liberal`` forces in Pakistan.........and they are three of the more secular forces.........

The end result will be an even greater popularity of the religious right, as the above three will make a bigger mess of things..........

#25 by Folio,

Yes that`s why the phone was delivered to him and the whole facade of final negotiations.

Re: # 41

More half assed wishy washy analyses from the captain clueless masquerading as a grand field marshall.

The Mullah element has been discredited...

1. For wearing Burqah and evading death.

2. For using women and children as human shields.

Re: # 40

I am surprised that you of all people don`t understand that these are all ISI people ... inter alia the brothers... the brothers have paid for biting the hand that feeds them.

PS: For example Khalid Khawaja... who was picked up 4 days ago...

He was not only an ex-PAF officer but also an ISI and CIA double agent ... now he is in for Islamic militancy.

Lets be a little more educated in our analysis.

There was a cell phone conversation this morning in Hafsa when the full operation was going on, between one of the fighters on a `point` inside and some TV channel, probably ARY. He said when the MQM delegation arrived last night, they sabotaged the peaceful negotiation. He also said he was content that he was going to die.

A man certain to die is not likely to tell a lie.