Preventing More Lal Masjids

Chowk, staff, PLEASE put an end to banning people like this.

Make a policy so people do not spam here, or whatever you can do....Let NO ONE post long endless articles here or in other ways interfere with the free flow of ideas. But please recognize that we have to deal with ideas first before we can deal with people.

That`s the whole point behind chowk`s existence, that`s its beauty, its real contribution! So please do something!

``>1,100 shrouds ordered: Edhi

ISLAMABAD: Renowned social worker Abdus Sattar Edhi said on Tuesday the government had asked him to prepare shrouds for 800 more bodies after already sending 300 to the Lal Masjid and Jamia Hafsa. Edhi termed the incident the worst of its kind in Pakistan. Edhi volunteers are carrying on their work to recover the bodies from the seminary and the mosque.

Journalists disallowed to visit hospitals

Staff Report

ISLAMABAD: The authorities on Tuesday barred journalists from visiting all major hospitals in Islamabad and Rawalpindi.

The decision was apparently aimed at preventing the journalists from assessing the exact number of causalities in the operation against the Lal Masjid militants. Most of the injured people were rushed to the Combined Military Hospital (CMH) in Rawalpindi.

Private television channels reported that the police and troops had been ordered to shoot at journalists trying to gain access to the injured persons. Journalists were also stopped from entering the Fauji Foundation Hospital in Rawalpindi. Journalists who tried to enter the Pakistan Institute of Medical Sciences, the Federal Government Services Hospital and the Capital Hospital were told by the security personnel to stay away.

mantolives #43 ``The Mullah element has been discredited... 1. For wearing Burqah and evading death. 2. For using women and children as human shields. ``

you are one pathalogical liar!

1- subsequent events have proved that Abdul Aziz was not escaping death. If he were, he would have taken his wife and daughter and sick mother with him. Also, the fight his younger and considerably mellower brother put up against the state machine only suggests that a more headstrong Abdul Aziz would never have escaped from death

2- By pakistani government`s own account, when Ghazi Rashid was shot, he was with 3 other male companions. No children or women as human shields. No suicide belts found. No booby traps. And, at least until the recent news, no reports of foreigners.

Have some shame and stop lying with a straight face. We understand that you have a problem with Muslims, but it still is possible to make a valid argument without resorting to lies.

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``Who are the Indians fighting? The Pakistani military or the `Shariatists`? Is the enemy`s enemy one`s friend? Is Fazalur Rehman Khalil for the Shariat or is he a puppet of the military? ``The line``, my dear kaal, is going to redefine things and make things clearer. You know it helps to take sides. ``

GT, my man, are you an acadamic? You tend to make simple things very complex imho :)

``Who are the Indians fighting? The Pakistani military or the `Shariatists`?``

For the Indians it is one and the same thing.

``Is the enemy`s enemy one`s friend? Is Fazalur Rehman Khalil for the Shariat or is he a puppet of the military? ``The line``, my dear kaal, is going to redefine things and make things clearer. You know it helps to take sides. ``

Not always, GT. Sometimes it just helps to sit on the sidelines and mind one`s own business.

GT:
Pakistani liberals are morons. Ten years ago when Taliban were inflicting a thousand Jamia Hafsa`s on Afghanistan, everything was hunky dory. Don`t fall for the charms of paki liberals. They are the enablers of islamic terror in the region. They want to offer infidel blood to Allah as a recompense for their debaucherous (unislamic) ways: fund and advocate ``armed resistances``, the world over.

Re: # 69

GT,

... i am deeply moved ........ so what do you want me to wear to the sit-in ? .......... how about a tie-dye shirt, a grateful dead bandana and water buffalo sandals ?............. i assume you are supplying the weed, but i will bring my own bong ?............. are we going to much on marijuana cookies and talk about the dictatorship of the proletariat ?........... i love the proletariat - i live in islamabad and i am a communist ........... i hate the bourgeois and the petty bourgeois ............... long live the people ! ............and please pass the roach ... thank you !

(Long post)

Dear Stuka, Raw_Dust etc.,

Let us forget Pakistani liberals and `lines` for the moment. The co-ercive powers of two states - Pakistan and India are growing day by day. You would agree with me that this is a bit frightening. No? OK think of the police stations, prisoners without trials, an admiral`s grandson going scot free after driving over pavement dwellers, .... I can go on and on but you get the picture. It is indeed disgusting isn`t it?

But how come we always end up supporting this disgusting state - and by extension those who run the state for their own benifit? Why is it that we always end up agreeing that those who oppose the state are actually all `bad people`? How come the state is always fighting these bad guys - the Pakistanis (Indians), ISI (RAW), naxalites, terrorists etc. etc.? Why do we never see the state coerce the good guys? Though in real life, perhaps all the state coercion that you get to see (not on TV or the newspaper) are vis-a-vis good simple people? Is there something that we are refusing to see? Is there something that we are refusing to listen too?

That is what I am talking about and have been talking about for a long time. It is the STATE stupid. And the only line that exists is the one between the individual and the state. Unfortunately, the state is a necessary evil. All that we can do is to check its power (at least try to). See it that way and all the other lines become clear -

For example, use the court to check the dictator ... etc. etc.

The killing of innocents in the garb of killing terrorists is unacceptable for a strong state. Not being able to stop terrorists killing innocent people is in the same sense unacceptable.

Finally, I have been talking about the importance of religion. Why? Well it is very simple. In our parts the govt. (army etc.) are mai baap for the common people. For the common people nothing can be higher than the raja (prime minister, general etc.). They are unapproachabe and one can barely think of opposing them. But everyone will agreee that there is one being above them and that is God. They will rise against the corrupt raja if they know that God is with them. Liberals miss this simple point totally.

Re: # 70

neembu

((((They do not consider as immoral such things as exploiting workers, cheating customers, bribing officials,
((( beating their wives)))))]

neembu ....I am heeeeeeeeeere........

``The Lal Masjid battle is part of the wider civil war within the Islamic world waged by totalitarian forces that seek redemption through violence. Their cancerous radicalism pits Muslims against Muslims, and the world at large. It is only peripherally directed against the excesses of the corrupt ruling establishment, or inspired by issues of justice and equity.

Note that the Lal Masjid ideologues – and others of their ilk – do not rouse their followers to action on matters of poverty, unemployment, poor access to justice, lack of educational opportunities, corruption within the army and bureaucracy, or the sufferings of peasants and workers. Instead their actions are concentrated entirely on improving morality, where morality is interpreted almost exclusively in relation to women and perceived Western cultural invasion. They do not consider as immoral such things as exploiting workers, cheating customers, bribing officials, beating their wives, not paying taxes, or breaking traffic rules. Their interpretation of religion leads to bizarre failures in logic, moral reasoning, and appreciation of human life. ``

Bravo.

Re: # 71

Um...Dr. Hoodboy.

neembu #70 very succinct and accurate. who wrote this?

Re tahmed# 71
It’s the last two paragraphs of this article.

Regards,


Faruk

Re: # 74

:)

Echo Sahib,
Welcome back! Whether we agree or not, whether your index eclipses or falls below my own dismal one, I continue to respect your viewpoints and the passion with which you express them. Please do continue writing, even if you have to use a muffler (or silencer for our Anglicized Paki brethren!) to keep the censors at bay. :)