Pervez Hoodbhoy July 10, 2007
#76 Posted by arjun2 on July 10, 2007 8:50:29 pm
Storming the mosque humiliated Pakistan
By Isambard Wilkinson in Islamabad
Last Updated: 12:01am BST 11/07/2007
As the the Red Mosque in Islamabad was stormed, President Pervez Musharraf must have been praying it would not end in the massacre of innocent women and children. But even before the shooting had stopped and the bodies counted, it was clear that this had been a pivotal action in Pakistan`s internal ideological battle.
The storming of Lal Masjid has increased opposition to Gen Musharraf among those who are sympathetic towards the Taliban in Afghanistan and who oppose his backing of the US-led war on terror. Radical Islamists have been roused by what for them was an emblematic act of martyrdom.
It is supposed to be election year in Pakistan and the big question is whether the debacle has helped or hindered Gen Musharraf`s chances. From the beginning of the crisis, the general`s critics have questioned the timing of the mosque drama and suggested that it was contrived to draw attention away from a domestic political crisis.
Gen Musharraf has been beleaguered since his attempted sacking of the chief justice. His standing has been dented by faltering American support and the killing of more than 40 people by his political allies in Karachi in May.
To some extent, Lal Masjid will have re-established his damaged credentials as a bulwark against terrorism. He has had to enforce, brutally, his policy of enlightened moderation. By storming the mosque, he has been drawn further into a battle he had hitherto tried to avoid.
Gen Musharraf has always striven to balance the demands of America, which has bankrolled his regime to the tune of $10 billion since 2001, and Islamic radicals.
This equilibrium has been underscored in blood in recent months, whereby every military action taken in Pakistan`s tribal areas against pro-Taliban militants has been met with a series of suicide bomb attacks against soldiers and officials.
The murky relationship between jihadis, the mainstream military and Pakistan`s military intelligence agencies is in flux. Many of the main jihadist groups that have fought in Indian-held Kashmir and Afghanistan, and that are suspected of infiltrating militants into Lal Masjid, were financed and trained by military intelligence.
The tens of thousands of jihadis were considered to be a ``strategic asset`` by Pakistani generals, but now high command is at a loss over how to decommission this ``freelance`` force.
The dark arts practised by the top brass over the past few years to control the radicals - fattening the established radical religious leaders with political power and cash -are losing their sway as a younger, more extreme generation of radicals has come to the fore.
Gen Musharraf`s American backers may come to look at Lal Masjid as a metaphor for his record on controlling extremism. His drive since 2002 to reform madrassahs has failed because of opposition from hardline groups.
Pakistan saw a spectacular rise in madrassah numbers in the 1980s, when the schools, backed by funding from the West and Arab countries, became recruiting grounds for volunteers fighting Soviet forces in Afghanistan. Some madrassahs later supplied recruits for the Taliban.
Lal Masjid is a case in point. Critics noted that the Red Mosque first earned a reputation for militancy in the 1980s, under its founder, Maulana Abdullah, who used to work for Pakistan`s military intelligence.
When he was assassinated, the mosque was taken over by his sons, Abdur Rashid Ghazi and Mohammed Abdul Aziz. Both were at one time in the pay of the government as civil servants.
That the Walter Mittyish revolutionary Ghazi has been transformed into an Islamist hero as result of Pakistan`s anarchic governance is lamentable.
After he was accused of being involved in a Musharraf assassination plot, he boasted of how he merely lay low in Islamabad while the army scoured the country. The charges were later dropped.
When he was arrested after weapons were found in his car, again intelligence official ordered his release.
The Lal Masjid circus always had a contrived air of a deus ex machina, so when Ghazi declared yesterday, ``My martyrdom is near``, it was doubly tragic. He had his strings pulled by greater forces - either intelligence agencies or militant groups.
So what will Gen Musharraf`s coalition backers make of Lal Masjid? He had planned to be re-elected by the existing assemblies. The US State Department disagrees. Last month, it issued a statement saying he would seek re-election from parliament after elections due later this year.
A State Department official said recently that Gen Musharraf had already pledged that, if he ``continues in political life``, he will ``put aside the uniform``. ``We would expect him to follow through on his commitments,`` he said.
That points towards a scenario whereby he would jettison his uniform to preside over a broad-based secular coalition, possibly headed by the self-exiled former PM, Benazir Bhutto, whose previous governments were twice dismissed on charges of corruption.
Pakistan, in its 60th year, with its clownish antics and humiliating and resentful reliance on American money, has the aspect of a sorrowful, nuclear-armed circus.
By Isambard Wilkinson in Islamabad
Last Updated: 12:01am BST 11/07/2007
As the the Red Mosque in Islamabad was stormed, President Pervez Musharraf must have been praying it would not end in the massacre of innocent women and children. But even before the shooting had stopped and the bodies counted, it was clear that this had been a pivotal action in Pakistan`s internal ideological battle.
The storming of Lal Masjid has increased opposition to Gen Musharraf among those who are sympathetic towards the Taliban in Afghanistan and who oppose his backing of the US-led war on terror. Radical Islamists have been roused by what for them was an emblematic act of martyrdom.
It is supposed to be election year in Pakistan and the big question is whether the debacle has helped or hindered Gen Musharraf`s chances. From the beginning of the crisis, the general`s critics have questioned the timing of the mosque drama and suggested that it was contrived to draw attention away from a domestic political crisis.
Gen Musharraf has been beleaguered since his attempted sacking of the chief justice. His standing has been dented by faltering American support and the killing of more than 40 people by his political allies in Karachi in May.
To some extent, Lal Masjid will have re-established his damaged credentials as a bulwark against terrorism. He has had to enforce, brutally, his policy of enlightened moderation. By storming the mosque, he has been drawn further into a battle he had hitherto tried to avoid.
Gen Musharraf has always striven to balance the demands of America, which has bankrolled his regime to the tune of $10 billion since 2001, and Islamic radicals.
This equilibrium has been underscored in blood in recent months, whereby every military action taken in Pakistan`s tribal areas against pro-Taliban militants has been met with a series of suicide bomb attacks against soldiers and officials.
The murky relationship between jihadis, the mainstream military and Pakistan`s military intelligence agencies is in flux. Many of the main jihadist groups that have fought in Indian-held Kashmir and Afghanistan, and that are suspected of infiltrating militants into Lal Masjid, were financed and trained by military intelligence.
The tens of thousands of jihadis were considered to be a ``strategic asset`` by Pakistani generals, but now high command is at a loss over how to decommission this ``freelance`` force.
The dark arts practised by the top brass over the past few years to control the radicals - fattening the established radical religious leaders with political power and cash -are losing their sway as a younger, more extreme generation of radicals has come to the fore.
Gen Musharraf`s American backers may come to look at Lal Masjid as a metaphor for his record on controlling extremism. His drive since 2002 to reform madrassahs has failed because of opposition from hardline groups.
Pakistan saw a spectacular rise in madrassah numbers in the 1980s, when the schools, backed by funding from the West and Arab countries, became recruiting grounds for volunteers fighting Soviet forces in Afghanistan. Some madrassahs later supplied recruits for the Taliban.
Lal Masjid is a case in point. Critics noted that the Red Mosque first earned a reputation for militancy in the 1980s, under its founder, Maulana Abdullah, who used to work for Pakistan`s military intelligence.
When he was assassinated, the mosque was taken over by his sons, Abdur Rashid Ghazi and Mohammed Abdul Aziz. Both were at one time in the pay of the government as civil servants.
That the Walter Mittyish revolutionary Ghazi has been transformed into an Islamist hero as result of Pakistan`s anarchic governance is lamentable.
After he was accused of being involved in a Musharraf assassination plot, he boasted of how he merely lay low in Islamabad while the army scoured the country. The charges were later dropped.
When he was arrested after weapons were found in his car, again intelligence official ordered his release.
The Lal Masjid circus always had a contrived air of a deus ex machina, so when Ghazi declared yesterday, ``My martyrdom is near``, it was doubly tragic. He had his strings pulled by greater forces - either intelligence agencies or militant groups.
So what will Gen Musharraf`s coalition backers make of Lal Masjid? He had planned to be re-elected by the existing assemblies. The US State Department disagrees. Last month, it issued a statement saying he would seek re-election from parliament after elections due later this year.
A State Department official said recently that Gen Musharraf had already pledged that, if he ``continues in political life``, he will ``put aside the uniform``. ``We would expect him to follow through on his commitments,`` he said.
That points towards a scenario whereby he would jettison his uniform to preside over a broad-based secular coalition, possibly headed by the self-exiled former PM, Benazir Bhutto, whose previous governments were twice dismissed on charges of corruption.
Pakistan, in its 60th year, with its clownish antics and humiliating and resentful reliance on American money, has the aspect of a sorrowful, nuclear-armed circus.
#77 Posted by echoboom on July 10, 2007 8:57:27 pm
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#78 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on July 10, 2007 9:14:37 pm
#77 Chowk Staff,
I am not able to read the wise words of Echo Sahib. Has his rating dropped low again. Please get the jumper cables and turn on the juice. :)
I am not able to read the wise words of Echo Sahib. Has his rating dropped low again. Please get the jumper cables and turn on the juice. :)
#268 Posted by ZahraJ on July 11, 2007 8:27:04 pm
Re: # 79
Saleem - I am doing perfectly fine by the grace of God. Thank you for asking. Your sense of humor is getting refined and crisp with the passage of time. In my humble opinion, you owe a special thanks to Chowk for introducing you to some interesting characters who provoke you to write ``some`` beautiful posts.
Just wanted to let you know that :)
Saleem - I am doing perfectly fine by the grace of God. Thank you for asking. Your sense of humor is getting refined and crisp with the passage of time. In my humble opinion, you owe a special thanks to Chowk for introducing you to some interesting characters who provoke you to write ``some`` beautiful posts.
Just wanted to let you know that :)
#79 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on July 10, 2007 9:16:21 pm
#75 Zahra :)
How are you? Haven`t talked in a long long time. Good to run into you again.
Salim
How are you? Haven`t talked in a long long time. Good to run into you again.
Salim
#80 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on July 10, 2007 9:25:35 pm
Dear Chowk Friends,
Other than the needless and horrific loss of life, I have another serious problem with the ill-advised massacre conducted by the Government of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan under the leadership of President General Pervez Musharraf.
The stubborn and fatalistic attitude of the inmates of Lal Masjid may remind some of us when another die-hard rejectionist camped out by the River Euphrates around the year 670 AD. He refused to accept the leadership of the widely-accepted and powerful Caliph sitting in Damascus. The state army of the Caliphate was dispatched to bring the ``illegal`` miscreants into line. There were many women and children in the fanatic leader`s group. They were denied water in the middle of the summer. One by one, the men were slaughtered by the more numerous army of ``true belivers.`` Order was restored, the rebel was beheaded, his head was kicked around by the Governor of the province and then shipped to various cities of Momindom for all to witness.
That single act of barbarism, cruelty, and authoritarianism resulted in a calamity that destroyed the Caliphate of Damascus within 80 years and resulted in the death of every member of the ruling family with very few exceptions. To this day, we are living with the curse of that despot`s cruelty and the schism it caused within Islam. :)
Other than the needless and horrific loss of life, I have another serious problem with the ill-advised massacre conducted by the Government of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan under the leadership of President General Pervez Musharraf.
The stubborn and fatalistic attitude of the inmates of Lal Masjid may remind some of us when another die-hard rejectionist camped out by the River Euphrates around the year 670 AD. He refused to accept the leadership of the widely-accepted and powerful Caliph sitting in Damascus. The state army of the Caliphate was dispatched to bring the ``illegal`` miscreants into line. There were many women and children in the fanatic leader`s group. They were denied water in the middle of the summer. One by one, the men were slaughtered by the more numerous army of ``true belivers.`` Order was restored, the rebel was beheaded, his head was kicked around by the Governor of the province and then shipped to various cities of Momindom for all to witness.
That single act of barbarism, cruelty, and authoritarianism resulted in a calamity that destroyed the Caliphate of Damascus within 80 years and resulted in the death of every member of the ruling family with very few exceptions. To this day, we are living with the curse of that despot`s cruelty and the schism it caused within Islam. :)
#81 Posted by nazarhayatkhan on July 10, 2007 9:40:38 pm
GT # 6
`` i.e. the implementation of the shariat``
Can some one throw light on what is `Shariat`. Everyone keeps repeating this mantra - the educated, the illetrate, the-Mulla, the non-Mulla etc etc.
`Shariat` is nothing more than History. Can History be devine?
NHK
`` i.e. the implementation of the shariat``
Can some one throw light on what is `Shariat`. Everyone keeps repeating this mantra - the educated, the illetrate, the-Mulla, the non-Mulla etc etc.
`Shariat` is nothing more than History. Can History be devine?
NHK
#82 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on July 10, 2007 9:43:37 pm
#60 {``The best way to preclude any more Lal Masjids is to install, cherish, and maintain true secularism, real democracy, and legitimate religious beliefs that proclaim individualism, liberty, diversity, tolerance, love, and compassion. Certainly, the two Islams of the late Mullah Ghazi and Mushy Mushy Muck Muck are both false and doomed to failure and eradication. Even the Islam of Jinnah has no place in our civilized world.``}
Friends,
Before I am lynched on this forum for heresy, blasphemy, and Satanism, allow me to explain why I consider all three exploitations of Islam to be false, insidious, and pernicious. Jinnah used Islam to divide a country at ALL costs (tens of millions uprooted, a million killed, tens of millions separated, thousands raped, looted, and mutilated) merely to satisfy his own thirst for power, his own vanity to be #1, and his devilish jealousy of Gandhiji. Pervez Musharraf is exploiting Islam to stay in power, because no other ideology will allow him to usurp his forcibly-obtained throne forever in Pakistan - certainly no Christian, Hindu, or Sikh general could force his will on the people of Pakistan. Somehow a Muslim dictator makes it all seem kosher. :) Finally, the Mullahs exploit Islam about the same way as OBL, Zarqawi, and Zawahari have (or had) been doing. They use narrow interpretations of the Holy Koran to bulldoze their myopic vision of Islam - a backward uneducated people, unaware of their basic rights, willingly accepting the policing of ``true`` Islam under the power of the slightly educated Mullahs, who of course get all the good food, the choicest virgins, and the best homes - just like the head priests of yesteryear.
The best thing that Kemal Pasha did for Islam was to remove it from the power equation. In Turkey, Islam took hold where it needs to - at the grass roots level, where it is a force of compassion, love, and justice; and not at the top where it becomes an oppressive force. I hope that people understand my rationale.
Friends,
Before I am lynched on this forum for heresy, blasphemy, and Satanism, allow me to explain why I consider all three exploitations of Islam to be false, insidious, and pernicious. Jinnah used Islam to divide a country at ALL costs (tens of millions uprooted, a million killed, tens of millions separated, thousands raped, looted, and mutilated) merely to satisfy his own thirst for power, his own vanity to be #1, and his devilish jealousy of Gandhiji. Pervez Musharraf is exploiting Islam to stay in power, because no other ideology will allow him to usurp his forcibly-obtained throne forever in Pakistan - certainly no Christian, Hindu, or Sikh general could force his will on the people of Pakistan. Somehow a Muslim dictator makes it all seem kosher. :) Finally, the Mullahs exploit Islam about the same way as OBL, Zarqawi, and Zawahari have (or had) been doing. They use narrow interpretations of the Holy Koran to bulldoze their myopic vision of Islam - a backward uneducated people, unaware of their basic rights, willingly accepting the policing of ``true`` Islam under the power of the slightly educated Mullahs, who of course get all the good food, the choicest virgins, and the best homes - just like the head priests of yesteryear.
The best thing that Kemal Pasha did for Islam was to remove it from the power equation. In Turkey, Islam took hold where it needs to - at the grass roots level, where it is a force of compassion, love, and justice; and not at the top where it becomes an oppressive force. I hope that people understand my rationale.
#83 Posted by majumdar on July 10, 2007 10:02:08 pm
Salimbhai,
India got divided becuase the Hindus and Muslims as represented by INC and ML were unable to have the kind of give and take that was necessary for the country to stay together. Yes MAJ (pbuh) accelerated the process. Had he not been around maybe India wud have stayed united but the problems wud have festered till now. In some ways MAJ did the sub-continent a yeoman`s service. Some thoughtful Indians on the chowk (Muthu/Mohar/myself) strongly recommend a Bharat Ratna for him.
Yes, what was not unacceptable was the collosal loss of life that took place. But this was due to poor foresight and lack of preparedness on part of Brit as well Indian/Pak authorities. Not just poor MAJ`s fault.
(his devilish jealousy of Gandhiji)
Please don`t call the old goat as ``ji``. He was a nasty piece of goods as Manto mian rightly says. To MKG belongs the credit of bringing religion-based politics centre stage.
Regards
India got divided becuase the Hindus and Muslims as represented by INC and ML were unable to have the kind of give and take that was necessary for the country to stay together. Yes MAJ (pbuh) accelerated the process. Had he not been around maybe India wud have stayed united but the problems wud have festered till now. In some ways MAJ did the sub-continent a yeoman`s service. Some thoughtful Indians on the chowk (Muthu/Mohar/myself) strongly recommend a Bharat Ratna for him.
Yes, what was not unacceptable was the collosal loss of life that took place. But this was due to poor foresight and lack of preparedness on part of Brit as well Indian/Pak authorities. Not just poor MAJ`s fault.
(his devilish jealousy of Gandhiji)
Please don`t call the old goat as ``ji``. He was a nasty piece of goods as Manto mian rightly says. To MKG belongs the credit of bringing religion-based politics centre stage.
Regards
#84 Posted by bulleya on July 10, 2007 10:43:46 pm
It is a sad day for a country, and a sad state of its citizens, if there is a pitched battle that goes on in the center of its capital and one group of its citizens cheers one side`s killing and another group cheers the other side......
........anyone who thinks that the attack of one govt. agency (military and police) on another govt. agency (auqaf dept), and vice-versa, is something to cheer about has extremely little empathy for those with opposing points of views and for with opposing ideologies......
........killing one`s own citizens, be it by the extreme religious right or by the govt. is not something to be proud of........it is not something that is going to define the birth of a, ``New Pakistan.``...........Only individuals who have fanaticism running in their bloood - to the point where they see the killing of their own citizens as something to cheer about - can hold such views.......
.........Pakistan died another death in the past week..........Not because the govt. attacked the maulvis and not because the maulvis attacked the govt.........but because one Pakistani attacked another........two depts. of the govt. attacked each other........and most of all, because each group had its own cheering squad, hoping for the death of the, ``other,`` without taking into account the fact that the, ``other`` is still, at the end, a fellow Pakistani.......
pro-maulvi and anti-maulvi fanaticism now runs deep amongst many Pakistanis.......both groups need to be sidelined........Such problems will only be magnified by these two groups......
........the lal masjid, ``brigade`` is a social phenomenon, taking birth in poverty and lack of social services.......it is not a religious phenomenon........and it requires the deft touch of a sociologist and the breadth of knowledge of an economist to be solved.........it will not be solved by the blunt instruments of the state or the maulvi.......
if the americans have only increased the agitation against themselves, even with the use of daisy cutters, i am quite sure the pakistani govt. will not be able to solve the problem with mere gernades and machine guns........
.....it is, indeed a sad sad day..........half the country cheering pakistanis killing another group of pakistanis and vice-versa.........
........anyone who thinks that the attack of one govt. agency (military and police) on another govt. agency (auqaf dept), and vice-versa, is something to cheer about has extremely little empathy for those with opposing points of views and for with opposing ideologies......
........killing one`s own citizens, be it by the extreme religious right or by the govt. is not something to be proud of........it is not something that is going to define the birth of a, ``New Pakistan.``...........Only individuals who have fanaticism running in their bloood - to the point where they see the killing of their own citizens as something to cheer about - can hold such views.......
.........Pakistan died another death in the past week..........Not because the govt. attacked the maulvis and not because the maulvis attacked the govt.........but because one Pakistani attacked another........two depts. of the govt. attacked each other........and most of all, because each group had its own cheering squad, hoping for the death of the, ``other,`` without taking into account the fact that the, ``other`` is still, at the end, a fellow Pakistani.......
pro-maulvi and anti-maulvi fanaticism now runs deep amongst many Pakistanis.......both groups need to be sidelined........Such problems will only be magnified by these two groups......
........the lal masjid, ``brigade`` is a social phenomenon, taking birth in poverty and lack of social services.......it is not a religious phenomenon........and it requires the deft touch of a sociologist and the breadth of knowledge of an economist to be solved.........it will not be solved by the blunt instruments of the state or the maulvi.......
if the americans have only increased the agitation against themselves, even with the use of daisy cutters, i am quite sure the pakistani govt. will not be able to solve the problem with mere gernades and machine guns........
.....it is, indeed a sad sad day..........half the country cheering pakistanis killing another group of pakistanis and vice-versa.........
#85 Posted by majumdar on July 10, 2007 10:47:22 pm
Romair sahib,
(it is, indeed a sad sad day..........half the country cheering pakistanis killing another group of pakistanis and vice-versa.........)
Very true. Thanks for pointing out the obvious.
Regards
(it is, indeed a sad sad day..........half the country cheering pakistanis killing another group of pakistanis and vice-versa.........)
Very true. Thanks for pointing out the obvious.
Regards
#87 Posted by HP on July 10, 2007 11:16:53 pm
Phenomenal article by Pir Hoodbhoy.
However!
“Even after Jamia Hafsa students went on their violent rampages in February 2007, no attempt was made to cut off the electricity, gas, phone, or website – or even to shut down their illegal FM radio station. Operating as a parallel government,”
Setting up CDs on fire and operating an illegal FM radio does not equal to operating parallel government. Incident like this happen in every society which is going thru an ideological turmoil. I would rather not use this analogy but people in the US too have bombed legitimate businesses like abortion clinics.
The problem is that we have fanatics on both sides. Pir Hoodbhoy in this and many other articles appears to be fanatically opposed to the fanatic mullah. His conclusions in the article are mostly on the money but his fanaticism to bring about liberal changes is really reverse fanaticism. Pir Hoodbhoy or should I call him secular or liberal mullah, is as vehement in demanding death to mullah as the mullah is in demanding the same for all the kafroon or munafiqoon.
Pir PH sees lots of problem with burka in his university campus and derogatorily refers the campus to “city of walking tents”. This to me is not the right approach. We have a society where religion in social life has always dominated but Burka is not a symbol of religion. It is a symbol of the rural roots of the society in Pakistan.
Sindh, Balochistan and parts of Punjab are as conservative as NWFP when it comes to women. In rural areas in most of Pakistan, women observe Purdah and don’t go out of their homes without wearing Burka.
What we need to appreciate is that these burka girls are joining universities and colleges. It is hard for them to leave their rural or the lower middle class background behind but the positive part is that the liberal and progressive persons like pir PH have a chance to talk to them and give them enough knowledge to move beyond Burka or maybe help the next generation remove the veil altogether
There is another contradiction in Pir PH’s narration here. He supports a military action, cutting off Gas, power and water to the people in Lal mosque and then he also laments the army attacks on the tribal areas.
This appears to be just bughaz e mawiya to me. Ideologically, the fanatics in the tribal areas are not any different than the mullahs of the lal mosque.
Both groups are Pakistani citizens. This is unfortunate that some in our society condone the bombardment of the tribal areas but insist on bombing a very small clique of people holed up in mosque.
I mostly agree with Pir PH, but I do think that mullah menace in Pakistan is not going to end by force. Democracy and more democracy will remove this menace from the streets.
In 1979 or 80 when Zia ordered five time azan on TV and the number of religious programs on TV increased exponentially, many including me, feared that Pakistan is headed to an era of religious fanaticism. Over the years we have been proven right. The control of TV and other media allowed the religious fanaticism to increase manifold in the last twenty five years or so, and it will take more than just bombs and artillery fire to reduce that influence. Pir PH should really ponder over some peaceful solutions rather than cutting off gas, electricity and taking the army actions.
#88 Posted by MantoLives on July 10, 2007 11:18:16 pm
Majumdar,
Captain Clueless from Canada is pathetically out of touch with reality. Its not half the country... its more like above 90% of the country... especially the common man who is cursing the Mullahs.
Captain Clueless from Canada is pathetically out of touch with reality. Its not half the country... its more like above 90% of the country... especially the common man who is cursing the Mullahs.
#90 Posted by MantoLives on July 10, 2007 11:22:15 pm
Re: # 89
Yes you are right as usual. That is the only person I have quoted in that post.
Yes you are right as usual. That is the only person I have quoted in that post.
#89 Posted by harish_hyd on July 10, 2007 11:19:12 pm
Umm..so Achyut Patwardhan, whom Yasser didn`t know until the other day, is the gospel truth now. Amazing how people cherrypick their sources and try to pass it off as the ultimate truth. Must be the desperation.
#91 Posted by MantoLives on July 10, 2007 11:31:30 pm
Malik the genius writes:
``1- subsequent events have proved that Abdul Aziz was not escaping death. If he were, he would have taken his wife and daughter and sick mother with him. Also, the fight his younger and considerably mellower brother put up against the state machine only suggests that a more headstrong Abdul Aziz would never have escaped from death``
ROTFL....
But seriously... weren`t you the one who was claiming that ``America`` will save you (i.e. ``the brave anti-imperialist``) from me (i.e. ``the slave of the west``) on the other board... against some alleged threat you felt from my writing on the net... shall we repeat what you said there.
By the way... since everytime you come to Pakistan you express the desire of bashing my head on the pavement to some person or the other... could you actually meet me when you come this time ?
Or are you going to wear the Burqah like your ``headstrong`` auntie Abdul Aziz?
``1- subsequent events have proved that Abdul Aziz was not escaping death. If he were, he would have taken his wife and daughter and sick mother with him. Also, the fight his younger and considerably mellower brother put up against the state machine only suggests that a more headstrong Abdul Aziz would never have escaped from death``
ROTFL....
But seriously... weren`t you the one who was claiming that ``America`` will save you (i.e. ``the brave anti-imperialist``) from me (i.e. ``the slave of the west``) on the other board... against some alleged threat you felt from my writing on the net... shall we repeat what you said there.
By the way... since everytime you come to Pakistan you express the desire of bashing my head on the pavement to some person or the other... could you actually meet me when you come this time ?
Or are you going to wear the Burqah like your ``headstrong`` auntie Abdul Aziz?








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