A Letter To President Musharraf

16 more troops killed today in N. Waziristan by IED:

Haathi di bund which warnha sokha hunda ey, par nikalna bara aukha ...!

tahmed writes "Pakistanis are too smart to be enslaved forever by a military general, let alone a half-brained mullah."

It takes a true peon of the West first to divide up/ stratify people in tiers, then assign value judgments and all the time ignore the real problems behind the issues. The "second tier" military men could never ever have managed to encroach politically were it not for the conditions created by first the colonials and then American interference. The mullah would never have a voice politically were it not for just such adjustments carried out by those that would manipulate power in Pakistan. Were it not for colonial bs and neo-colonial horse sh**, healthy political and social institutions would have developed in Pakistan. This peon of the West, whom I hate much because of the injustice that he preaches and his support of colonization and the US elite, I hate him because he hates humanity while at the same time practicing idolatory by worshipping the US elite, will always mask the true cause in order to legitimize the barbarism of his masters....The Pakistani people, even the common man on the street has a good understanding of the shenanigans of the Americans, their history and their situation has taught them so. It didn't take Mills to explain to them that these manufactured crisis in Pakistan are just power adjustments by the Americans, their games as most of them put it....

gentlemen i gotta run but real quick

tahmed i agree 100%

abu - heartlessness stems from desperation, thats no excuse just an explaination, on both sides.

zee, i cant seem to send emails though i can get them off chowk mail :( what a sweet mug - and a musician too ? i am duly impressed :)

Ahmed sahab ..i dont know what is it like in punjab..but in khi they guys who couldn't get in to med schools, engineering schools, karachi university etc. eventually enrolled in s.m law college. Barring some exceptions, i would venture to say that 90% lawyers are 3rd tier as well. The reason they didnt become a molvi was because they couldnt wake up for fajr. Having said that i salute them for satnding up for the supremacy of law but if your rationale is that first tier from an educational point of view should rule the country than i think u r talking about a govt. of technocrats & doctors..which is an original & untested idea.

cb #444 Excellent post. The problem is the lack of a proper political system in Pakistan. Traditionally, if a man was not fit to join a professional college he would be sent to become an army officer (even the selectors at ISSB responsible for bringing in geniuses like Musharraf and Zia used to joke about this). And now one of these second-tier individuals is running the country!! Traditionally, if a man was not fit even to join the military, he would become the maulvi. And now this third-tier individuals is making a mess in the country as they try to grab power from the second tier and become khalifas.

That is where the lawyers come in, the ones in the first-tier of professionals in Pakistan. The ones who understand that the difference between a primitive society and a civilized society is the rule of law. Where no one is above the law, not even a field marshall, not even a mard-e-momin.

And there is a very real movement in Pakistan today that is led by these lawyers. So, things are not as hopeless as they seem. Pakistanis are too smart to be enslaved forever by a military general, let alone a half-brained mullah.

Clifton Khala,

It amazes me when liberals (not you) either unintentionally or because of malice focuses on fringe lunatics and presents them as voices of Islam when in fact there are numerous true scholars who have the correct understanding of Islam. E.g Jawed ahmed ghamidi comes to mind. I don’t agree with everything that he says but I think he knows more about Islam than the lunatic who prepares a 12 year old boy to blow himself up.

When you hear islamist propogating the killing of kuffar to remove kufr, how come you guys as muslims ask them “dude where r u getting this from?”, I do! Qital is allowed in Islam when an enemy attacks u, captures ur land and than start ruling on u, how is that any different from UN’s injunction of right of self-defense and right of resistance to a foreign occupation? Offensive jihaad is allowed only when there is an Islamic Empire and it rules on its people justly and than establishes its world order where there is injustice.

Please don’t be so naïve to rub it in our faces the stupidities of tribals regarding their women. You know that true Islamic scholars condemn that, Islam has given uncanny rights to women, if it didn’t than the majority of Muslim women or ALL of the educated, free muslim women would be harping on Muhammad PBUH and Islam itself. Right now its just ayan hirsi ali and wafa sultan and they are doing it because it’s a requirement of the job and their US visa. Islam is not what triabls practice, its whats in Quran and what Prophet Muhammad PBUH preached. And then there is a slight matter of ijtehaad that we have surrendered, GOD knows why.

#444 Posted by cliftonbridge

The truth is that religion is used in shameful ways to justify political and social agenda's.

Cliftonbridge, I would really like to ask you a question:

What was the political and social agenda for which Ghazi and hundreds of burqa-clad girls used their religion, and actually died for willingly?

#445

word!

cliffy:444
to sum up what you said:

" Quafila'a-e Hijaaz meiN, eik Hussain bhhee naheeN"...Allama Iqbal.


and that has been/ and is our misfortune.

re. abu , echo and zee

i am the penultimate liberal, i think i would personally rather die than kill anyone. However the world does not work on those idealistic principles and i wish it would.

The shame of pakistan is that secularists are all corrupt and islamists are all crazy and destructive. In the ideal system we would have a middle ground and hopefully exclude the worst of both ideologies.

The truth is that religion is used in shameful ways to justify political and social agenda's. I agree with echo shahabs analysis of how things came to pass. However it does not excuse whats happening now i think.

I think that education social justice and strengthening of bad institutions is key to the way forward. Afer that people have a right to chose how they want their govt to run BECAUSE at that point they will be able to govern effectively and not destructively. And be capable of critical thinking that is sorely lacking at this point.

I fundamentally disagree with the idea of ending kufr by killing kafirs in the way of God. I think its insulting to suggest that God needs muslims to kill the people he Himself has created. This ideology is key to many islamists, thats why they are so cold hearted when it comes to killing shia's or seculars or nonmuslims. And i have heard many islamists quote the quiyamat ki nishani when their women will rebel against them and monins have to tie their daughters to trees to prevent them from following the "bad" rebel women amongst them. That is the basis for why there is so much opposition to asma jehangir types and why the actual islamists at this point can not co-exist with a world where women are more than subhuman (despite exceptions like echo zee and their like)

Arif BHai,

Yarr aap achi khassii aqal-mandii kii batein kartayy kartayy patrii say utarr jatay hein. There is a lot of truth in what you are saying but your inisnuation that one tactical weapon can wipe out waziris has a logical falacy. You can kill with human beings but you don't kill A people. I think whoever has those tactical weapons have tried them in afghanistan and IRAQ and now they realize that its a war that u can't win. Muslim dynamic is a lil bit different than communism, japs, koreans and germans. Americans well the one's that have brain cells anyway are learning that you can't crush them by force just like they did with their other foes, there is gotta be a dialogue in there somewhere.

Thanks Echo for messaging me this to see if I was comfortable with it to post. That's a true gentleman. And ... people think Islamists are barbarians ...

Yes, I agree with most points.

from FP: letter to Musharraf
From: echoboom
To: zeemax
Date: Jul 18, 2007 Wed 08:55 am

Zeemax:
1. Once the Pak Govt. & the mujahideen ( now Taliban) accepted US support & weapons to drive Russians out of Afghanistan..they
were obligated to have a U.S installed government in Afghanistan. The US or the West NEVER NEVER NEVER do anything for sentimental or noble reasons. The East mistakes "friendship" as a personal obligation but the West considers such overtures as a betrayal by the person of his own people for his personal aggarandizement. { and the West is right!}.

2. The govt. was supposed to be handed over to Afghanis & not to the mercenary arabs, who the US did not like in the first place because the objectives were at loggerheads...Religion vs Nationhood.

3. Saudi Arabian Kingdom was and still is the chief culprit behind all this...they saw into it as a threat to their own monarchy. Just like abdul aziz had overthrown the rashid dynasty so Saudis thought that their dynasty would be finished off by Usama.

4. Afghans with their deep-rooted tradition of providing asylum just could not give up its arab guests..and they really wanted to and even "hinted" so many times.

5. The influence of Arabs ( read: Wahabi/salafi) in Afghanistan was used as a bulwark against Iran & when that failed they became pariahs like a failed Saddam.

6. Bombings, mosque killings, killing of Shia Doctors & prominent respected ones like Hakim Saeed struck terror in the hearts & minds of a lot of decent Qu'raan abiding folk in Pakistan..people quite good muslims but who did not make their religion
a spectacle ( maybe like you & me)..

7. It is this fear cliffy is talking about.

P.S: if you feel comfortable you may post this on front page OR send it to Cliffy.

clifton aapii,

I think bulleya has very aptly explained the dynamics of what is going on in Pakistan. People we have never in our sorry history given a chance to true democracy and whoever mentions NS and BB’s stint as democracy needs to schedule an appointment with the head doctor. When you as the PM are told who ur foreign sect., treasury sect., chief of army staff and joint chief’s of staf will be than its not a democracy it’s a sham.

Parliaments don’t have a sword hanging over their head, its usually their sword that should be able to legislate all departments with independent oversight of supreme court. This has never happened, never once tested in our country, so how can we say it won’t work when it DOES work everywhere else. Militants and extremist get notoriety when you marginalize popular public opinion.

I don’t care who you are but if you justify killing of a 7 or 14 year old under any pretence just because it suits your political ideology than there is something horribly wrong with you. That disease is on both sides of the spectrum. It’s rather sad that liberals have the same prejudices because they are supposed to be the educated one’s with their accents and deep-necklines. Jahil to jahil hay hii..magar uskii jahalat pahaRRON tak mehdood thii..iss 60 saal kay arsayy mein kitni ddaffah unhoon nayy aakar shariat nafiz karnayy ki koshish kii hay khi, lahor, isb mein? Even when Taliban was ruling Afghanistan and it was there golden era, was there any talk of imposing shariah by force? Aapp jakarr unkay bachoon, unkii auratoon koo bhoon daaloo yeah phir America sahab bahdur koo dawat doo kook ay “aayein marein bomb shehrii abadiyoon parr” too bibi harr zulm ki ayk intaha hotti hayyy or kissi muqaam parr aakar billi ka bacha bhii panja marta hay.

#431
echo chacha did you cc me? :)

:) i could work with you, but you are only representative of islamists on the internet. On the other hand i am representative of most seculars in real life , are people like me not good enough?

431:zeemax
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