A Letter To President Musharraf

Re: # 18
That was my way of saying, that decisions taken to run my country rarely take what I want (I, being a Pakistani citizen) into consideration. Most things are done on demands made by outsiders - strategic alliances, balance of power et al. But now i have just about had it. I matter (I, being EVERY pakistani citizen), so listen to me now. Its the plea of a frustrated Pakistani citizen. enjoy the pun, by all means :).

``It’s not the loss of life one is concerned about, it is the life of a certain faith that has consumed the nation of idiots.``
This isn`t about faith. Its about bad governance. Its about paying for bad decisions taken in the past. If it were about religion, it would be a different kind of talk, but make no mistake, there would have been things to say. But yes you are right about us being a nation of idiots. An idiot is someone who willingly relinqhes control over his/her own life/fate. You couldnt have put it better.

#28 by bulleya on July 13, 2007 2:11pm PT


take them out of poverty


Nice try but poverty and lack of education don`t produce terrorists...islamic indoctrination does..

OBL is a billionaire
Mohd Atta studied in the west as did omar sheikh and khalid sheikh mohammed

the paki state, with the support of a large number of the average paki people, create the jihadi monster through a systematic program of islamic indoctrination..now when the jihadi monster is biting you in the rear, you blame poverty and other things...

stop the islamic indoctrination and the terrorism will stop...terrorism that is initially directed outwards but almost always bites the hands that fed it....

Re: # 19

Dear Mr. President,

May I also have some cookies, milk and a year`s supply of BS?

Khadija Hassan

PETITION TO APPOINT A JUDICIAL COMMISSION TO FIND THE TRUTH ABOUT LAL MASJID:

Please consider signing. The petition will be delivered to CJP in 15 days.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/Lal-Masjid-Pakistan/

Join the coalition of the truth and the battle to save the soul of Pakistan.

-TAKE PAKISTAN BACK COALITION

#26 by stuka on July 13, 2007 2:04pm PT


there was complete unanimity amogst the chattering classes that ``it had to be done`` and they needed to taught a lesson.


60 years of democracy and Indians have come to realize that they are ultimately responsible for the actions of the government they elected..which is why the indian people don`t go around looking for a messiah, like the pakis do...the soul searching is done at election time...

Re: # 20
Hello Stuka,

Yes this is the same Khadija. How are you?

My beef is with governance. Who ever rules - army, party, philosopher king - doesnt matter. The priority needs to be the same. good governance.

as far as the operation goes, yes there really was no choice. Things had turned THAT ugly. But that cannot be a justification we should swallow easily. theek hai, operation hua. but why let things fester so badly that it was required at all?

As far as the discrepancy in figures goes, i refer you back to my first paragraph.

good to see you again,
Khadija

Re: # 32 Arjun

Arjun, you have a very acidic style of interacting on chowk, usually baiting others, and dragging the discussion into pak bashing. However, your posts do carry some truth in them.

I agree about the poverty vs. indoctrination. Poor people do not become fundamentalists automatically. Sufism with its message of tolerance was widely adopted by the same ``poor`` people.

It is ideological indoctrination that causes the problem. Usually catches strong roots in the middle class or in some cases (like OBL) in the filthy rich.

No religion is completely right or completely wrong. All paths lead to the truth. But no path itself is the truth, it is just a path.

-thinking

One thing, I was impressed after reading the younger Ghazi`s obituary. I had nothing but contempt and disgust for the Mullahs after the older one was caught in a damn Burkha. But the younger one redeemed his image completely. The other thing, I saw the younger brother speak to media a few minutes / hours before his death. And the Ghazi was talking about someone who had promised him that he would never drink. Such selfless ness is admirable indeed.


Obituary: Abdul Rashid Ghazi

Asif Farooqui of the BBC`s Urdu service profiles Abdul Rashid Ghazi who led the last of the resistance in Islamabad`s Red Mosque to Pakistan`s security forces.


Pakistani cleric Abdul Rashid Ghazi moved in liberal circles and favoured Western-style clothes as a young man, but was radicalised later in life.

His father, Maulana Abdullah, founded Islamabad`s Lal Masjid (Red Mosque) and served as its head from when it was built in the late 1960s.

Maulana Abdullah`s murder in 1998 left Abdul Rashid Ghazi a changed man and appears to have marked the start of his transformation from moderate to militant.

He came into the public limelight in 2001 when Pakistan`s religious parties formed an alliance against the US invasion of Afghanistan.

After that he was accused of plotting to kill President Musharraf and of having numerous links with Islamic militants.

Struck from father`s will

Abdul Rashid Ghazi`s father came from a poor and religious family in Rajanpur district in southern Punjab.


The real problems between [Ghazi] and the state developed in 2004, over the operation against pro-Taleban militants in Pakistan`s tribal areas

The family belongs to the Baloch Mazari, a warrior tribe from southern Punjab and north-eastern Balochistan.

Maulana Abdullah`s circle of influence included senior government officials and politicians and he was said to be very close to former military ruler Gen Zia-ul-Haq.

In 1998, Maulana Abdullah was assassinated in the courtyard of the Red Mosque. According to his will, his elder son, Maulana Abdul Aziz, replaced him as the mosque`s khateeb (the person who delivers the sermon).

Abdul Aziz was always seen as the obedient son, who quietly followed in his father`s footsteps. But his younger brother was quite different.

From the very first, Abdul Rashid Ghazi refused to receive any sort of formal Islamic education. He enrolled at a madrassa (religious school) under pressure from his father, but soon ran away.

He refused to grow a beard, and went to the secular Quaid-e-Azam University in Islamabad, later graduating with a master`s degree in international relations. He then applied for and got a job with the Ministry of Education.

Abdul Rashid Ghazi also refrained from using the title Hafiz (someone who has memorised the Koran). So displeased was his father by his un-Islamic lifestyle that he made his elder son sole heir in his will.

After his father`s murder, Abdul Rashid Ghazi started to take an interest in the affairs of the mosque and the madrassa attached to it and also grew a beard.

But he continued his job with the Ministry of Education. His elder brother, meanwhile, encouraged his Islamic re-education, and made him his deputy in the mosque and heir apparent.

`Militant links`

In 2001, Abdul Rashid Ghazi became a central leader of the religious alliance opposed to the US invasion of Afghanistan, making passionate speeches about defending the country at daily demonstrations in Islamabad.

But the real problems between him and the state developed in 2004, over the operation against pro-Taleban militants in Pakistan`s tribal areas.

Like other religious leaders, Abdul Rashid Ghazi also condemned the operation and used the Red Mosque to wage a campaign against it.

During this time the mosque issued a fatwa or religious edict which said that soldiers dying in the campaign should described as ``killed``, while the militants` dead were to be called ``martyrs``. This enraged President Musharraf and the army.

Soon after, the government announced that Abdul Rashid Ghazi had been involved in a plot to blow up the president`s house, the parliament building and army headquarters on Pakistan`s independence day.

Abdul Rashid Ghazi went underground, and the government presented an explosive-filled truck owned by him as evidence of his involvement to the media.

Armed

Some time later the minister for religious affairs, Ejaz-ul-Haq, held a press conference saying that Abdul Rashid Ghazi had not been involved in the plot and the real culprits had been arrested and charged.

These were said to be men belonging to the tribal areas and included Uzbek militants. It had also been established, officials said, that they had regularly visited the Red Mosque.

Further investigations apparently revealed that Abdul Rashid Ghazi had close contacts with militants in Pakistan`s tribal area of Waziristan.

The cleric`s first known gun battle took place when armed men tried to assassinate him in Islamabad. But he and his bodyguards using AK-47 rifles fought them off.

Since then, Abdul Rashid Ghazi always travelled around armed. He had an AK-47 in his car, near his work desk and near his bed when he slept.

Philosopher,

We can keep our disagreements to ourselves without rufffling each other`s feathers. Ruffle them when it`s absolutely necessary.

Mujhe jai nahin chaahiye bhai.......give us ur educated opinions....I learn even from my opponents.............I have no such hang ups.

Thanks & good weekend.

#37 by thinkingstorm on July 13, 2007 2:35pm PT


discussion into pak bashing. However, your posts do carry some truth in them.


why is it ``pak bashing`` to point out the FACT that the jihadis being killed today are the ones your government actively nurtured, trained, armed and funded? facts don`t morph into a ``bash`` simply because they`re inconvenient to you..


No religion is completely right or completely wrong.


religions are neither right nor wrong...It`s the followers who go right or wrong...

Stuka (#26), Bulleya (#29):

It was not just blue star operation, subsequent massacre of Sikhs by Prime minister Rajiv in Nov 1984 was the proverbial second punch that forced Sikhs to reexamine their place in India.

Anyway, minorities need to learn to live by majority rules, no matter which country you are in. All other lecturebaji is crap.

On the other hand, this incidence in Pakistan is majority on majority. Even if Mushy may not feel any pain, at least he will act as if he is hurting inside.

Re: # 31

Khadija, I share your frustrations (even though I am a dual national, might even have some vested interest to see changes in Pakistan), what I was trying to say is (and I know it didn’t come out right), that we as Pakistanis (by citizenship, by birth, by association) need to OWN this mess. We can write letters to everyone and their uncles, but it is time to acknowledge that we as a nation have messed it up, for ourselves, for others, for our neighbors. I have been reading a lot of press on the Islamabad massacre, but I have yet to see a single article, a speech, an op-ed piece, by some Pakistani (any Pakistani) who has stood up to claim the ownership of the mess we are in. Fingers are going in every direction, except where they should. We need to get over feeling so special. We make stupid choices like everyone else in the world. Pleading to Musharraf is like asking a grave digger to pray for someone’s long life.

#``41 by Pardesi on July 13, 2007 3:09pm PT
Stuka (#26), Bulleya (#29):

It was not just blue star operation, subsequent massacre of Sikhs by Prime minister Rajiv in Nov 1984 was the proverbial second punch that forced Sikhs to reexamine their place in India.``

Pardesi, The reason I did not mention the massacres was because there was no moral justification of the event by the chattering classes. It is true the government (Congress) sat on its butt and the state machinery failed. But I was talking about the reaction of the opinion creators of society (the Greek Chorus if you will) that did in a sens e back the Operation Blue Star but not the subsequent massacres.


``Anyway, minorities need to learn to live by majority rules, no matter which country you are in. All other lecturebaji is crap.On the other hand, this incidence in Pakistan is majority on majority. Even if Mushy may not feel any pain, at least he will act as if he is hurting inside. ``

You are right. That`s exactly what I was thinking after I wrote my previous post. We would have seen maybe half the level of soul searching if the Mullahs were Shia...and none if it was Pandits or Priests rather than Mullahs :)

One does not have to side with mullahs to see that killing of fellow citizens by their own army was a criminal act. But to be sure, this is not the first act of its kind. It has been happening all over Pakistan with increasing speed. Its just that this one occured in the capital city in front of cameras.

An unconstitutional and illegal president who came to power by having his thugs literally scale the walls of PM house does not even have the authority to order planting of a tree, much less ordering a wholesale massacre. After all, for good or bad, there are only two possible (and somewhat overlapping) sources of law in Pakistan:

1- Quran. But thats a big no no for this dictator since it does not align with his personal idea of ``enlightenment``

2- 1973 Constitution. But he abrogated it when he overthrew an elected (yes, half assed, but still elected) government

So under which system of governance did he execute the writ of the state? If he could not wait 8 days before ordering bombing of Lal Masjid, dont we, after a godly patience of 8 years, have a stronger case to begin bombing the infrastructure that supports his dictatorship?

The author made a passing reference to undertaking a referendum on whether alcohol and prostitution should be allowed/regulated or banned in Pakistan. This is of course a very uncomfortable question for the democracy loving enlightened moderates........for the result of this poll would be somewhere close to 97%. And so, yes, the ``enlightened moderates`` want democracy. But no, not the kind of democracy that makes them uncomfortable. In the end, it is really a struggle between ``haves`` and ``have-nots``. Religion is merely a medium of expression of ``have-nots``, since it gives them the power and the motivation to blow-up the infrastructure of F-16 wielding ``haves``.

Re: # 43

{It is true the government (Congress) sat on its butt and the state machinery failed}

Stuka,

It was much more than that. Actually, Hindus in central India did not want to harm Sikhs. It was the ruling Congress stalwarts who were driving the massacre operation from Delhi. Some of my relatives in Indore were notified 10-12 hours in advance by Congressi Hindu friends that they had received “chuDDiyan” from Rajiv’s folks since they had not killed any Sikhs yet (remember, this second operation lasted 3-4 days in North India). This prompted Sikhs in two colonies that were heavily populated by Sikhs to block off all roads with trucks backed by all young Sikhs with guns, swords etc. The hired hooligans (remember average Hindu is a peaceful vegetarian who outsources the dirty work:)) came and left since risk/reward ratio was too high. They did however kill a dozen or two Sikhs (the unfortunate ones caught alone) in the town to complete nominally their quota to please Rajiv.

Also, chattering class might not have blessed the November massacre operation but they did not speak out for any inquiry. On top of that they blessed Rajiv with huge mandate as prize for his “achievement” - teaching Sikhs a lesson AGAIN.

Re: # 40 arjun

I agree, facts are facts. Jehadi`s killing others or each other is a fact too ( a lot of us Pakistanis never supported the jihadis btw). It is also a fact that you often drag these facts into discussions that have nothing to do with these facts :).

This discussion has everything to do with jehadis, and I concur with your reasoning.

-thinking