A Letter To President Musharraf

=== Interact Removed ===

rf786: Yes, indeed. This is the true day of Independence and of Freedom for Pakistan. Independence of the Judiciary, the true day of freedom when the Jury of "We, the People" spoke out loud and clear through peaceful demonstrations on the streets.

I am surprised that you say that the Musharraf's greatest strength is an independant judiciary - how could a man who mocks the election process to stay in power find a friend in an independant judiciary? So what Musharraf did was no mistake, but merely a desperate attempt by him to intimidate the Chief Justice who steadfastly refused Musharraf the right to walk all over basic rights in Pakistan (the basic rights to habeas corpus and the basic right to vote). Musharraf's claims to being some kind of an "enlightened moderate" are bs - he has been kow-towing to maulvis from day one, joking about women who were raped, refusing to abolish the hadood ordinance and blasphemy ordinance.

No, it is not a strong judiciary that is the best friend of a dictator. The only friends of a dictator are fascists - Islamic fascists who make him seem like the lesser of two evils, and ethnic fascists of mqm who came out with guns to shed the blood of the true martyrs of Pakistan on May 12.

EXCELLENT!....and BRAVO

``Vohi raaz jo meiN naa keh sakaa , vohi baat hoantoaN pay aa Gaee

What you want for your country is not what America wants for your country. What is to your benefit is not to America`s benefit. The ISI knew full well what was going on, deception is their game, just that they were happening to deceive both the leader (Musharraf) who has fallen out of favor with the Americans as well as the Pakistani people as they ferment a mini civil war to bring the most benign ``temporary democracy``- to be followed by another military coup right on the heels of their Iran Invasion...the carnage at the Lal masjid was nothing compared to the slow carnage of people in the millions that suffer the devastating effects of poverty- as a direct result of US policy. You have the privilage of travelling with your ``green passport``, they are lucky if they make a meal a day...

IN #2 read, << just that they were happening to deceive >>> as

just that they happened to deceive

My first reaction was to write a sharp rebuke to your article.

Then I thought about that and decided better.

While this and successive govts grew the radical islam weed abundantly, you cannot blame the govt for carrying out an operation against the clerics at lal masjid.

I am a citizen of Islamabad, and would hate to have it radicalized. It is unfortunate enough that masses of middle class educated people are lining up to blindly follow ignorance in the name of religion. There is nothing enlightened or humane about the brand of religion these people are preaching and those that are following it. Denying plurality; Denying equality of women; Promoting misery and frowning upon arts and culture.

So, no thanks, screw the intolerant tenants and preachers. We need more modernity, more enligthenment, democracy, freedom, better human rights, better economic conditions.

So please don`t give us your bogus body counts. Even one life lost due to agression is a tragedy. Whether it be a muslim life, or a hindu, or a christian, or a jewish life.

Perhaps the army could hold on a bit longer, but in the end, it was a hostage situation.

-regards
Thinking.

BTW-

The sale of alcohol and ``whore houses`` does not warrant vigilante style torture harassment and kidnapping. Shame on you.

Do not give religious vigilante`s power to control your life. That road leads to hell, as you can see in Afghanistan. The means do not justify the ends.

Were the LAl Masjid people raving lunatics?

No. They were human beings. The clerics (male and female) seemed reasonably intelligent and educated. But they were driven by blind ideology. This blinded them to human rights, ethics, and made them intolerant of any opinion other than thier own.

Keep in mind: these are the same people that threatened to throw acid on the faces of female students in Quaid e azam university if they did not cover thier faces (hijab).

Please, ignore your idelogical urges for a second, and follow the principle in th quran itself: that human rights come before the rights of God.

-thinking

#5 thinkingstorm <<< Do not give religious vigilante`s power to control your life. That road leads to hell, as you can see in Afghanistan. The means do not justify the ends >>>

Pakistan Army/US had more to do with the Afghanistan that became hell than any ``religious vigilantes``, hhey were just the visible face of that hell that you reproduced detached from its context. If the Mullah vigilantes come to power in Pakistan it will again have to do more with the Pak Army/US than any independant cause or the default of the Pakistani people- think about what you write...

Author,

Mr. President, are you not aware how many whore houses operate in the capital?

Oh no ... just when I thought Aunty Shamim was coming back ...

I’ve heard a lot of talk from your government about how you had no choice.

He didn`t have a choice on 12 October 1999 either. When you have guns, you don`t need to choose. So the matter will be solved with guns. If you heard the speech yesterday, there was no mention of the elections due in just a few months, but there was an announcement of equipping the Frontier Constabulary with not only more recruits, but giving them tanks which no paramilitary force in the world has. What he`s trying to do is to distance the army, but let the paramilitary be roasted in the inevitable fire in FATA.

So, your idealism as noble as it may be, is not realistic. There will be a lot more bloodshed than you`ve seen so far.

#7 by zeemax on July 13, 2007 11:52am PT


Oh no ... just when I thought Aunty Shamim was coming back ...


I heard Aunty shamim is opening her business under the name aunty aziz and will be offering the services of the ninja chix..those that didn`t croak...

Thank you all so far, for all your comments.

masadi:

i realize my position of privlege can be irksome. Please realize that I only want equality of opportunity for all. Hence my plea for good governance to the President of Pakistan.

thinking storm:
thank you for holding back and thinking before writing. I request you re-read my letter, think some more and then comment.

Nowhere have i condoned the actions of those who promote extremism and/or fanaticism. My letter nowhere defends the actions of the mullahs of lal masjid, nor does it celebrate cruel indoctrination in the name of Islam.

you write ``We need more modernity, more enligthenment, democracy, freedom, better human rights, better economic conditions``. I wholeheartedly agree. Why then, do you not understand that I`m saying ``Mr president, dont let things get so bad that we need to start killing HOSTAGES``. You are a citizen of islamabad. Would you feel the same satisfaction were you or a loved one locked up in there? Would you have sacrificed yourself for modernity, enlightenment, freedom, ``more`` human rights, better economic conditions?

Also, shall i misread you too and asume that government led operations such as this will bring modernity and freedom and peace?

thinking storm, hello again.

you live in islamabad. why dont you go and investigate how bogus my figures are.

Khadija-

Thanks for your restraint as well ;).

Yes, you are partially correct. I misread parts of your letter. There are still parts that I don`t agree with (see my two interacts below), but I see that you are not condoning the mullah behavior, rather your anger is directed at the government`s behavior in the larger arena.

re: Masadi`s itis ISI and govt

It is true that the ISI and govt play a large role in a mullah brigade, but keep in mind, the mindset a generation is altered with this behaviour. If the moderates let the mullahs reign more freely, we will descend into an even worse spot than we already are.

-thinking

#10 by khatam-shud,

Your figures are correct. Thanks for publishing them.

Re: # 7
Hello zeemax,

worry not. plenty of aunty shamim`s will remain. im sure you`ll manage to find them quite easily when you want/need them :)

Again, there is always a choice. But it has to be a timely one. Theres a difference between choosing a path and betwen running damage control. My problem with lal masjid and other situations like it is not that it was stormed to control the lunacy it was spreading, but why was it ever given the opportunity to become the monster it became?

I was not convinced when musharraf addressed us yesterday and said that he and his staff did everything that they could, including requesting imaam-e-kaaba to negotiate. We dont have the whole story. We never have, we never will.

and yes, there will be more bloodshed, crisis will follow crisis. arent you tired of it? dont you want change? however idealistic a cry it may be? dont you believe in raising your voice? Its all we really have, isnt it?

#13 by khatam-shud on July 13, 2007 12:30pm PT


but why was it ever given the opportunity to become the monster it became?


It was allowed to grow because indoctrinating your population to produce jihadis to fight in kashmir and afghanistan was the policy of your country...and before 9/11 and the uncomfortable questioning the holders of green passports have to go through, we hardly saw anyone speaking out against it...

it was a choice, not an accident...

Re: # 11
you are gracious. thank you.

not sure i follow where you disagree? on the whorehouse and alcohol access? honestly, if it were left up to me, i think theres no way of controlling either. i feel whore houses should be regulated in terms of running health screenings of sex workers, std tests etc, and showing med reports to clients who will be putting themselves at risk when they patronize their choice of whorehouse.

alcohol should be put to vote. at the end of the day, people are responsible for their moral choices as well as taking care of themselves.

Re: # 14
thank you arjun. but this was a rhetorical question. Its an unfortunate legacy of army rule. hence the call to democracy.

Re: # 14
also,
you said ``it was a choice not an accident``

EXACTLY! thank you for hitting the nail on the head. There is always a choice. We made a very bad one, and now we have a chapter in our history called ``Operation Silence``. Just what my son needs to learn about!

This is a very passionate plea, but what does one’s passport have to do with it? Is being of a Pakistani origin not enough to comment on the sad situation of affairs? Musharraf did too little and a day too late. The minute the kidnapping of Aunty Shamim took place, the whole place should have been nuked. Musharraf lacks the moral authority as he rose to power himself illegally.

If similar actions were taken by, let’s say, a religious minority (say Christians of Pakistan kidnap a Mulla and make him parade naked), the entire Christian population of Pakistan will be slaughtered and no one will be writing a single letter to Mr. President. There will be no editorials in TV and papers. It’s not the loss of life one is concerned about, it is the life of a certain faith that has consumed the nation of idiots.

Dear Writer,

You forgot to ask for a cookie, some milk and one year free supply of BS.

Being a Pakistani with no dual nationality, residing in Pakistan yet asking for a vote on alcohol in a country that has yet to reverse reprehensible blasphemy laws, what gives?

Khatam Shud: Hmm, this nick sounds familiar..are you the Cornell grad that wrote the article on the Vagina monologues?

Re this article: You say that 500 people aredead. The BBC is saying that the figure is in the lower hudred range. I`m a bit confused.

Anyways, I liked the article in terms of rhetoric but did not understand what your bigger beef is? The Operation should not have been done, it should have been done but with better execution? Or the bigger point is about Musharraf not keeping his word as a leader (about the uniform)?

Khadija-

I read your other articles as well to get a better understanding of your point of view. I appreciate your article better now.

My knee jerk reaction was due to my misreading of what the body count meant, and I thought you were condoning the mullah brigade when you asked the pres if he did not know how many whore houses and alcohol are oeprating in islamabad. Which you are not.

So apologies for assuming things you said.

I agree with most of what you say. I agree that the situation should never have gotten to where it has gotten to. That lal masjid should have been evacuated months ago. Should have been shut down years ago. But just as I do not believe the official numbers, I don`t think the numbers you were given are any more accurate either. We are a nation of exaggaraters. We exaggarate the hell out of everything. But this is not a numbers game either.


So where does Mushy stand? Does he have a strategy?

Here is what I think. I think he is a tactical man, not a strategic leader. His command was challenged by Nawaz Sharif and his forces launched an immediate and effective takeover. Once he overthrew the government, he did not know what to do. He did not make a public statement for the longest time.

I think Musharraf has/had some good ideas. But he has dictatorial ideaology as well. He is not as ruthless as Zia, nor is he as corrupt as BB or Nawaz...but he is in power by force. Unfortunately, there is no credible leadership or candidates in Pakistan at the moment. Not musharraf, not BB, not nawaz, not Imran. None. Zippo.

So we must be vigilant, otherwise extremist ideology will become the viable candidate.

I am curious to know, other than raising our voices, what other tangible action do you think people should take?

-thinking.

Re: # 18Kulharee

That is a very interesting scenario you put forward. Indeed, if a minority religion had done this to a mullah, all hell would have broken loose.

Sad, we are just as hypocritical as the US that we accuse :)

In the article, this paragraph aptly summarizes that the rest of the world is asking Musharraf:

The red mosque is a stones throw away from the ISI headquarters. What is more, a number of ISI staff are said to offer their prayers on its premises regularly. Was our intelligence agency not aware of how these weapons and rockets were procured by the mullahs at the red mosque? Were our intelligence officers really that busy invading the personal life of the CJ and other officials, however corrupt they may be? If mosques and madrassah’s in the CAPITAL that are situated in the shadow of our intelligence force cannot be controlled, how do you hope to control similar monsters across the country?

Azizist (Zeemax),

Do u have smilar coverage in Urdu newspapers in Pakistan?

>>>....... as soldiers tramped across the main hall in army boots - something normally forbidden in Islam - the military said the mosque had lost its sanctity. ``This is not a mosque,`` said Gen Arshad.....<<<

http://www.guardian.co.uk/pakistan/Story/0,,2125492,00.html


Rgds,
Shamimist

khadijja hassan

Old questions but have never been more relevant than now. EXCELLENT ARTICLE...


P.S. Ladies and Gentlemen(foolio excluded untill he changes his name) with this interact i am going to equal BRIAN LARA`s record of 400*. Lara did it on St. johns antigua and i have done it on khadija hassan board and that too in overseas condition.

One thing I am surprised about is the amount of soul searching going on about this operation. I remember Operation Blue Star in India; there was complete unanimity amogst the chattering classes that ``it had to be done`` and they needed to taught a lesson. Its a different matter that the Sikhs did not agree with the opinions of the chattering classes.

I guess Kulharee is right that if this was a minority group, it would be shrugged of as essential and there may not be soul searching.

Re: # 25

Gaandu,

Folio means page or a book. Why does my ID name bother u?

This name is assumed as I am an avid reader of books b4 Internet came into being.

U are one of the near-2000 Chowkies here. Why shud we hold breath coz u are nearing 400 posts? U think u are Socrates or Plato?

To make it simpler, pl put me on ur ignore list. That solves our problem together. Dont mention my name unncessarily.

Samjhe?

nice article.......

.....this operation should not have been done.......at least not in this manner.......there is absolutely no reason to kill a citizen of pakistan, by the govt., other than in self-defence....in that sense, an operation against mqm should have been done, far before this one.........

.......the lal masjid type problems are social and economic in nature........they are not going to be solved through guns......the usa has bombed the crap out of afghanistan and iraq......has that solved anything, or has it created even more issues for the usa.......the same will happen in pakistan.........

.........these problems tend to solve slowly.........one step at a time.......give people better schools to study in........give them equality.........take them out of poverty..........don`t brainwash them for one task one day and then kill them, the next.......

and most of all, pursue everything through the rule of law......i had suggested earlier the govt. should file a case, under illegal occupation of land and then get a court decision.......after which, it should simply cut off their electricity, water etc. and wait........and wait......and wait........

after which, if it can get a political settlement, without killing anyone, it should agree it......catch one brother and let the other go, if you cannot catch both........that is still some progress..........a lot better than killing so many people.........

people who attack and video shop and burn videos are not evil.......they are brainwashed.......if they were evil, they would be selling the videos for a profit.........the solution isn`t to kill them........

p.s. i think people are unnecessarily blaiming the usa for this one........my guess is its the chinese who must have pushed musharraf........the lal masjid students really over-stepped their boundaries, when they went after chinese citizens......

in any case, pakistanis killing pakistanis is always a sad situation..........and no one should be happy about it, or even be indifferent to it.......if one accepts this, then the day the religious brigade gets power, it will go after the liberal brigade in the same manner.....

stuka #26: ``One thing I am surprised about is the amount of soul searching going on about this operation.``

.....the reason there is so much soul searching going on is because pakistanis don`t know which direction the country is headed........there is chaos and no order.......no one knows where the country will be in ten years........

in addition, the govt. itself is illegitimate and very inconsistent.......it kills tens to hundreds of students in a madrassah one day and defends a political party which is its partner and killed tens of people, another day.......

i have absolutely no sympathy for what the ghazi bros. were doing, however, i don`t think the govt. should have killed so many people.......there were other better ways of handling this situation........

i am working actively in pakistan now, and i can sense a sense of confusion.......people aren`t quite sure what will happen......and people are fed up with the army, feudals and with mullahs, yet the system is such that none can be removed, other than by each other........hence if they carry out an operation against each other, it becomes difficult to side with any party.......other than with those who were killed.....

p.s. i don`t know the details of operation blue star, but i have met more than my share of sikhs, who seem to still view it as a defining moment in their thought process, regarding their identity and where they fit in india........

Re: # 27

Maharaj Folio ji aka page ji

Yaar...tum to naraaz ho gaiy....i was just kidding man....and why would i put you on my ignore list???

Page ji....you are one of my favourite interacters here....chalo shabhash aab mushkaro do...that`s a good page....

p.s. and page ji because of you i am gonna break BRIAN LARA` record. its 401* now......takbeer.

Re: # 18
That was my way of saying, that decisions taken to run my country rarely take what I want (I, being a Pakistani citizen) into consideration. Most things are done on demands made by outsiders - strategic alliances, balance of power et al. But now i have just about had it. I matter (I, being EVERY pakistani citizen), so listen to me now. Its the plea of a frustrated Pakistani citizen. enjoy the pun, by all means :).

``It’s not the loss of life one is concerned about, it is the life of a certain faith that has consumed the nation of idiots.``
This isn`t about faith. Its about bad governance. Its about paying for bad decisions taken in the past. If it were about religion, it would be a different kind of talk, but make no mistake, there would have been things to say. But yes you are right about us being a nation of idiots. An idiot is someone who willingly relinqhes control over his/her own life/fate. You couldnt have put it better.

#28 by bulleya on July 13, 2007 2:11pm PT


take them out of poverty


Nice try but poverty and lack of education don`t produce terrorists...islamic indoctrination does..

OBL is a billionaire
Mohd Atta studied in the west as did omar sheikh and khalid sheikh mohammed

the paki state, with the support of a large number of the average paki people, create the jihadi monster through a systematic program of islamic indoctrination..now when the jihadi monster is biting you in the rear, you blame poverty and other things...

stop the islamic indoctrination and the terrorism will stop...terrorism that is initially directed outwards but almost always bites the hands that fed it....

Re: # 19

Dear Mr. President,

May I also have some cookies, milk and a year`s supply of BS?

Khadija Hassan

PETITION TO APPOINT A JUDICIAL COMMISSION TO FIND THE TRUTH ABOUT LAL MASJID:

Please consider signing. The petition will be delivered to CJP in 15 days.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/Lal-Masjid-Pakistan/

Join the coalition of the truth and the battle to save the soul of Pakistan.

-TAKE PAKISTAN BACK COALITION

#26 by stuka on July 13, 2007 2:04pm PT


there was complete unanimity amogst the chattering classes that ``it had to be done`` and they needed to taught a lesson.


60 years of democracy and Indians have come to realize that they are ultimately responsible for the actions of the government they elected..which is why the indian people don`t go around looking for a messiah, like the pakis do...the soul searching is done at election time...

Re: # 20
Hello Stuka,

Yes this is the same Khadija. How are you?

My beef is with governance. Who ever rules - army, party, philosopher king - doesnt matter. The priority needs to be the same. good governance.

as far as the operation goes, yes there really was no choice. Things had turned THAT ugly. But that cannot be a justification we should swallow easily. theek hai, operation hua. but why let things fester so badly that it was required at all?

As far as the discrepancy in figures goes, i refer you back to my first paragraph.

good to see you again,
Khadija

Re: # 32 Arjun

Arjun, you have a very acidic style of interacting on chowk, usually baiting others, and dragging the discussion into pak bashing. However, your posts do carry some truth in them.

I agree about the poverty vs. indoctrination. Poor people do not become fundamentalists automatically. Sufism with its message of tolerance was widely adopted by the same ``poor`` people.

It is ideological indoctrination that causes the problem. Usually catches strong roots in the middle class or in some cases (like OBL) in the filthy rich.

No religion is completely right or completely wrong. All paths lead to the truth. But no path itself is the truth, it is just a path.

-thinking

One thing, I was impressed after reading the younger Ghazi`s obituary. I had nothing but contempt and disgust for the Mullahs after the older one was caught in a damn Burkha. But the younger one redeemed his image completely. The other thing, I saw the younger brother speak to media a few minutes / hours before his death. And the Ghazi was talking about someone who had promised him that he would never drink. Such selfless ness is admirable indeed.


Obituary: Abdul Rashid Ghazi

Asif Farooqui of the BBC`s Urdu service profiles Abdul Rashid Ghazi who led the last of the resistance in Islamabad`s Red Mosque to Pakistan`s security forces.


Pakistani cleric Abdul Rashid Ghazi moved in liberal circles and favoured Western-style clothes as a young man, but was radicalised later in life.

His father, Maulana Abdullah, founded Islamabad`s Lal Masjid (Red Mosque) and served as its head from when it was built in the late 1960s.

Maulana Abdullah`s murder in 1998 left Abdul Rashid Ghazi a changed man and appears to have marked the start of his transformation from moderate to militant.

He came into the public limelight in 2001 when Pakistan`s religious parties formed an alliance against the US invasion of Afghanistan.

After that he was accused of plotting to kill President Musharraf and of having numerous links with Islamic militants.

Struck from father`s will

Abdul Rashid Ghazi`s father came from a poor and religious family in Rajanpur district in southern Punjab.


The real problems between [Ghazi] and the state developed in 2004, over the operation against pro-Taleban militants in Pakistan`s tribal areas

The family belongs to the Baloch Mazari, a warrior tribe from southern Punjab and north-eastern Balochistan.

Maulana Abdullah`s circle of influence included senior government officials and politicians and he was said to be very close to former military ruler Gen Zia-ul-Haq.

In 1998, Maulana Abdullah was assassinated in the courtyard of the Red Mosque. According to his will, his elder son, Maulana Abdul Aziz, replaced him as the mosque`s khateeb (the person who delivers the sermon).

Abdul Aziz was always seen as the obedient son, who quietly followed in his father`s footsteps. But his younger brother was quite different.

From the very first, Abdul Rashid Ghazi refused to receive any sort of formal Islamic education. He enrolled at a madrassa (religious school) under pressure from his father, but soon ran away.

He refused to grow a beard, and went to the secular Quaid-e-Azam University in Islamabad, later graduating with a master`s degree in international relations. He then applied for and got a job with the Ministry of Education.

Abdul Rashid Ghazi also refrained from using the title Hafiz (someone who has memorised the Koran). So displeased was his father by his un-Islamic lifestyle that he made his elder son sole heir in his will.

After his father`s murder, Abdul Rashid Ghazi started to take an interest in the affairs of the mosque and the madrassa attached to it and also grew a beard.

But he continued his job with the Ministry of Education. His elder brother, meanwhile, encouraged his Islamic re-education, and made him his deputy in the mosque and heir apparent.

`Militant links`

In 2001, Abdul Rashid Ghazi became a central leader of the religious alliance opposed to the US invasion of Afghanistan, making passionate speeches about defending the country at daily demonstrations in Islamabad.

But the real problems between him and the state developed in 2004, over the operation against pro-Taleban militants in Pakistan`s tribal areas.

Like other religious leaders, Abdul Rashid Ghazi also condemned the operation and used the Red Mosque to wage a campaign against it.

During this time the mosque issued a fatwa or religious edict which said that soldiers dying in the campaign should described as ``killed``, while the militants` dead were to be called ``martyrs``. This enraged President Musharraf and the army.

Soon after, the government announced that Abdul Rashid Ghazi had been involved in a plot to blow up the president`s house, the parliament building and army headquarters on Pakistan`s independence day.

Abdul Rashid Ghazi went underground, and the government presented an explosive-filled truck owned by him as evidence of his involvement to the media.

Armed

Some time later the minister for religious affairs, Ejaz-ul-Haq, held a press conference saying that Abdul Rashid Ghazi had not been involved in the plot and the real culprits had been arrested and charged.

These were said to be men belonging to the tribal areas and included Uzbek militants. It had also been established, officials said, that they had regularly visited the Red Mosque.

Further investigations apparently revealed that Abdul Rashid Ghazi had close contacts with militants in Pakistan`s tribal area of Waziristan.

The cleric`s first known gun battle took place when armed men tried to assassinate him in Islamabad. But he and his bodyguards using AK-47 rifles fought them off.

Since then, Abdul Rashid Ghazi always travelled around armed. He had an AK-47 in his car, near his work desk and near his bed when he slept.

Philosopher,

We can keep our disagreements to ourselves without rufffling each other`s feathers. Ruffle them when it`s absolutely necessary.

Mujhe jai nahin chaahiye bhai.......give us ur educated opinions....I learn even from my opponents.............I have no such hang ups.

Thanks & good weekend.

#37 by thinkingstorm on July 13, 2007 2:35pm PT


discussion into pak bashing. However, your posts do carry some truth in them.


why is it ``pak bashing`` to point out the FACT that the jihadis being killed today are the ones your government actively nurtured, trained, armed and funded? facts don`t morph into a ``bash`` simply because they`re inconvenient to you..


No religion is completely right or completely wrong.


religions are neither right nor wrong...It`s the followers who go right or wrong...

Stuka (#26), Bulleya (#29):

It was not just blue star operation, subsequent massacre of Sikhs by Prime minister Rajiv in Nov 1984 was the proverbial second punch that forced Sikhs to reexamine their place in India.

Anyway, minorities need to learn to live by majority rules, no matter which country you are in. All other lecturebaji is crap.

On the other hand, this incidence in Pakistan is majority on majority. Even if Mushy may not feel any pain, at least he will act as if he is hurting inside.

Re: # 31

Khadija, I share your frustrations (even though I am a dual national, might even have some vested interest to see changes in Pakistan), what I was trying to say is (and I know it didn’t come out right), that we as Pakistanis (by citizenship, by birth, by association) need to OWN this mess. We can write letters to everyone and their uncles, but it is time to acknowledge that we as a nation have messed it up, for ourselves, for others, for our neighbors. I have been reading a lot of press on the Islamabad massacre, but I have yet to see a single article, a speech, an op-ed piece, by some Pakistani (any Pakistani) who has stood up to claim the ownership of the mess we are in. Fingers are going in every direction, except where they should. We need to get over feeling so special. We make stupid choices like everyone else in the world. Pleading to Musharraf is like asking a grave digger to pray for someone’s long life.

#``41 by Pardesi on July 13, 2007 3:09pm PT
Stuka (#26), Bulleya (#29):

It was not just blue star operation, subsequent massacre of Sikhs by Prime minister Rajiv in Nov 1984 was the proverbial second punch that forced Sikhs to reexamine their place in India.``

Pardesi, The reason I did not mention the massacres was because there was no moral justification of the event by the chattering classes. It is true the government (Congress) sat on its butt and the state machinery failed. But I was talking about the reaction of the opinion creators of society (the Greek Chorus if you will) that did in a sens e back the Operation Blue Star but not the subsequent massacres.


``Anyway, minorities need to learn to live by majority rules, no matter which country you are in. All other lecturebaji is crap.On the other hand, this incidence in Pakistan is majority on majority. Even if Mushy may not feel any pain, at least he will act as if he is hurting inside. ``

You are right. That`s exactly what I was thinking after I wrote my previous post. We would have seen maybe half the level of soul searching if the Mullahs were Shia...and none if it was Pandits or Priests rather than Mullahs :)

One does not have to side with mullahs to see that killing of fellow citizens by their own army was a criminal act. But to be sure, this is not the first act of its kind. It has been happening all over Pakistan with increasing speed. Its just that this one occured in the capital city in front of cameras.

An unconstitutional and illegal president who came to power by having his thugs literally scale the walls of PM house does not even have the authority to order planting of a tree, much less ordering a wholesale massacre. After all, for good or bad, there are only two possible (and somewhat overlapping) sources of law in Pakistan:

1- Quran. But thats a big no no for this dictator since it does not align with his personal idea of ``enlightenment``

2- 1973 Constitution. But he abrogated it when he overthrew an elected (yes, half assed, but still elected) government

So under which system of governance did he execute the writ of the state? If he could not wait 8 days before ordering bombing of Lal Masjid, dont we, after a godly patience of 8 years, have a stronger case to begin bombing the infrastructure that supports his dictatorship?

The author made a passing reference to undertaking a referendum on whether alcohol and prostitution should be allowed/regulated or banned in Pakistan. This is of course a very uncomfortable question for the democracy loving enlightened moderates........for the result of this poll would be somewhere close to 97%. And so, yes, the ``enlightened moderates`` want democracy. But no, not the kind of democracy that makes them uncomfortable. In the end, it is really a struggle between ``haves`` and ``have-nots``. Religion is merely a medium of expression of ``have-nots``, since it gives them the power and the motivation to blow-up the infrastructure of F-16 wielding ``haves``.

Re: # 43

{It is true the government (Congress) sat on its butt and the state machinery failed}

Stuka,

It was much more than that. Actually, Hindus in central India did not want to harm Sikhs. It was the ruling Congress stalwarts who were driving the massacre operation from Delhi. Some of my relatives in Indore were notified 10-12 hours in advance by Congressi Hindu friends that they had received “chuDDiyan” from Rajiv’s folks since they had not killed any Sikhs yet (remember, this second operation lasted 3-4 days in North India). This prompted Sikhs in two colonies that were heavily populated by Sikhs to block off all roads with trucks backed by all young Sikhs with guns, swords etc. The hired hooligans (remember average Hindu is a peaceful vegetarian who outsources the dirty work:)) came and left since risk/reward ratio was too high. They did however kill a dozen or two Sikhs (the unfortunate ones caught alone) in the town to complete nominally their quota to please Rajiv.

Also, chattering class might not have blessed the November massacre operation but they did not speak out for any inquiry. On top of that they blessed Rajiv with huge mandate as prize for his “achievement” - teaching Sikhs a lesson AGAIN.

Re: # 40 arjun

I agree, facts are facts. Jehadi`s killing others or each other is a fact too ( a lot of us Pakistanis never supported the jihadis btw). It is also a fact that you often drag these facts into discussions that have nothing to do with these facts :).

This discussion has everything to do with jehadis, and I concur with your reasoning.

-thinking

Re: # 44

``One does not have to side with mullahs to see that killing of fellow citizens by their own army was a criminal act``

Wrong.

Killing is wrong anyway, but within the current legal framework in most countries, consider that you have a hostage situation, and you try to negotiate, and then the hostage takers open fire on the law enforcers, and kill a few law enforcers, and refuse to surrender and be arrested....I`m sorry, but people get shot for way less in even Canada or US.

So the government was justified within its legal framework to take action.

-thinking

Khadija,
Very well-written and beautifully expressed with all the straightforwardness of a Panzer blitzkrieg. There is no doubt about your anger, your sadness, your outrage, and your message. By stating the following you made a powerful conclusion and slammed the ball squarely in his court:
``And if, in all good conscience, you feel that you cannot stand in the line of fire, will you make way for someone who can?``

I just hope that your application for a Canadian visa has already been successfully processed.

You also said:
{`` You have been quoted as having said that ``I will order action if the media promises it will not show dead bodies.`` Is image your only priority? ...
Mr. President, if you, who as the chief of the army staff, has taken a firm stance about not abandoning your uniform, if you could not control these militants then how do you expect us to stand by you?...``}

Khadija, I think that everyone, including you, is misquoting the poor misundersood simpleton of a general. He meant to say:

`` I will remove my uniform if the media promises it will not show my naked body.`` LOL If this incompetent, cruel, and bloodthirsty dictator was not a murderer, he might be as funny as Omar Sharif (the one from Lalukhet).

well lookie here...the indigenous freedom fighters of the lashkar-e-toiba 2.0..Now if I point out that the JD is a front group for the LeT or that Hafeez Saeed is the leader of a state department terrorist group, some people will call it pak bashing

The irony is thick...the LeT jihadis were indoctrinated with a steady pakistani government propaganda about the hindoos killing muslims and destroying mosques...and now the jihadis are accusing their masters of doing the same...

Funeral prayers for Lal Masjid victims: More than 10,000 people attend JD-organised funeral

* MMA demonstrates outside press club, claims govt covering up ‘mass murder’
* IJT holds funeral prayers at PU

Staff Report

LAHORE: More than 10,000 people offered funeral prayers in absentia for victims of the Lal Masjid operation at Jamaatud Dawa’s (JD) Jamia Masjid Al Qadsia in Chauburji on Friday. AFP reported more than 20,000 men, women and children in attendance.

JD chief Hafiz Muhammad Saeed was seen crying during the prayer, which he led. Earlier, he told worshippers during his Friday sermon that the operation was an operation against every mosque and religious seminary in Pakistan. This was the largest prayer of its kind in the city.

MMA protests: On the appeal of the Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal (MMA), thousands of people protested the government’s crackdown on Lal Masjid earlier this week. The protestors urged the Supreme Court to take suo motu notice of ‘state terrorism’ to avoid a civil war. They urged the government to step down in wake of the operation in which scores of people including soldiers were killed.

The protestors alleged that the government was covering up the mess it had made of the operation. They claimed that hundreds of men, women and children had been killed, but that the government had enforced curfews and prohibited the media from entering the area to hide its misdeeds. Clerics denounced the operation against Lal Masjid during their Friday sermons. They also denounced the government’s attitude towards religious people. They demanded President Pervez Musharraf resign because his government had failed to protect the life and property of the people of Pakistan.

The MMA (Lahore chapter) demonstrated outside the Lahore Press Club. Liaqat Baloch led the protestors. A large police contingent was deployed around the press club and traffic was halted during the protest.

Punjab University: The Islami Jamiat Talaba (IJT) also offered funeral prayers in absentia at the Punjab University. An IJT release stated that more than 4,000 students, teachers and PU employees attended the prayer.

#19 by rf786 on July 13, 2007 1:14pm PT
{``Dear Writer,
...Being a Pakistani with no dual nationality, residing in Pakistan yet asking for a vote on alcohol in a country that has yet to reverse reprehensible blasphemy laws, what gives? ``}

Bismillah Bhai,
Don`t tell me you missed her wonderful and well-disguised sarcasm? She is saying that we all know Mushy and his advisors were three sheets to the wind when they made the decision to storm the Lal Masjid. She is also saying that we Pakis desperately need legalized alcohol to cope with the actions of a government and a dicator who are intoxicated with both alcohol and absolute power.

This is so powerful, so intense, and so effective that I am surprised that a Pakistan lady, without being of dual nationality, can write so well and so effectively. After all, we have expatriate Pakis in the US, who claim to be professors of one thing or another. These imposters, who flaunt their ignorance of Urdu, could not write decently in English, even if they were requesting a list ditch act of clemency from the Governor, while they were facing imminent execution.

The irony is thick...

JD chief Hafiz Muhammad Saeed was seen crying during the prayer, which he led. Earlier, he told worshippers during his Friday sermon that the operation was an operation against every mosque and religious seminary in Pakistan. This was the largest prayer of its kind in the city.

Here is another irony..Hafiz Saeed is originally from India :))

Re: # 18

``If similar actions were taken by, let’s say, a religious minority (say Christians of Pakistan kidnap a Mulla and make him parade naked), the entire Christian population of Pakistan will be slaughtered and no one will be writing a single letter to Mr. President. There will be no editorials in TV and papers. It’s not the loss of life one is concerned about, it is the life of a certain faith that has consumed the nation of idiots``

Whilst following this drama I noticed that the most frequent sentence used by everyone is:
``Muslims shouldn`t kill muslims``. ``A compromise should have been found``.

Is this really meant? If it was meant, there would be a similar outcry upon the beheadings/stonings/honor killings/etc of muslims.

It`s ok for goat`s to encite murder of innocent muslims with suicide bombings.
What`s happened to the ``Muslims shouldn`t kill muslims`` ???

The driving force isn`t the cost of muslim lives... It`s the bearded goats and their self-serving religious interpretations and dictates.

This needs adding to the book:
``Use any means to protect your muslim butt``
(Al Burka. Paragraph 420, verse 10 numbri)

#51 by stuka on July 13, 2007 5:15pm PT


Here is another irony..Hafiz Saeed is originally from India :))


dayum...

here`s more irony...gandhi is from india too...you know..the gandhi who, wccording to manto, is responsible for the islamic radicalism in today`s pakistan...

Re: # 9

Please ignore masadi`s post #6, because he usually has selective thought patterns and mostly uses circular logic. In this post he conveniently forgets that it was Zia-ul-Haq who approached for weapons from President Regan to counter the Soviet aggression into Afghanistan. When the US asked for money for those stringer missiles for the Mujahadeen, Zia approached Saudi Arabia for the money. Most Pakistanis conveniently forget that it was the Mujahadeen who fought bravely against the Soviets, and not the Taliban. Madeleine Albright, Secretary of State under the Clinton Administration, brought Taliban into power just to counter the Iranian influence in Afghanistan.

July 13, 2007

Khadija Malik Hassan
Somewhere City
Pakistan

Dear Khadija,

I am in receipt of your very special letter and would like to acknowledge the same. I have not received anything written with such warmth and affection since a no-good individual called Beej wrote to me a pairavi letter on behalf of a suspicious lawyer who had a few no-good things to say about me – but we won’t talk of those things here so as not to hurt the feelings of the parties concerned!

You see, my dear Khadija, you need to get one thing clear. I never wanted to rule – although many have drawn that erroneous conclusion, especially after my glowing Referendum (Thank you very much, my dear Pakistanis – Pakistan Paindabad!). I did not want to rule, in fact, all I wanted to do was to retire from my cushy army job to perhaps another cushy after-army job. But duty called – and I answered – even though that NS fellow never wanted me to.

As you know, we khakis put duty above everything else – we place it on the highest pedestal we can locate and offer our dua to it first thing every morning, for we must always do our bit to protect the motherland – and that dua is the best way to do it – and it is free!

If we did not put our duty before everything else, how do you expect us to award those medals of valor to each other?!

And like somebody in America said – “we have nothing to fear but fear ourselves” – accordingly, we have realized that Pakistan has nothing to fear but the Pakistanis – and so we do our best to protect Pakistan from the same!

I only wish you had sent your letter directly to me instead of to the whole world! I wonder why. (There is that slim possibility that you are trying to get a visa to the USA and your letter is the first step in the direction. Okay, if not the USA then – as a poor second choice – to Canada (but don’t tell that DM guy, he will start crying again!) or even – Lord forbid – to the UK! And if none of those places work out, hey, there is always down under! BTW, I am already married so don’t try any dora-baazi on me! Mrs. Mushy won’t be receptive to a number two in the house. The children’s spots are also filled, so adoption is out – even our pet dog is still in the prime of life! Sorry, no vacancy!)

It is incorrect to say that just because you are a Pakistani, you are no foreigner. You see, most Pakistanis are foreigners in lands which are not Pakistan – AND lands which are Pakistan! We live in an age of enlightenment when we broaden our outlook and make no distinction between Pakistanis and foreigners – at whatever level! Take that GWB for example – he may be the president of the USA, but we will never treat him any less than any ruler in our country! And it is a highly moral stand – you see, my dear, he is an elected leader, which automatically makes him more legitimate than most leaders of our land!

I am sorry you have no dual nationality or assets abroad. Life is tough for those who lack those resources. But sorry, I can not help you – we would like our countrymen to become self-sufficient and it is a good idea to set up a good example! So go set up a good example for the youth of our country – by fending for yourself! Like I said before – Pakistan comes first!

Regarding those children killed in Jamia Hafsa, you should wait till the dust settles – many of those that you designate as children but happened to have thick beards!

To fill that void in your shattered heart, I would like to send you an autographed copy of the Ghauri-I, Ghauri-II, Ghauri-III, and Hatf-IV missiles – so your little heart will swell with so much pride that you will never miss anything. And those pictures will never die.

Don’t be misled by the 1,200 number. The actual number of casualties is a lot less in that mosque.

It is just that like all desis – we can not resist a good deal when we see one and the vendors were offering a volume discount! So, even if we don’t need those coffins today, it is only a matter of time – you see my dear, unlike those infidels across the border –every citizen of our land will surely depart in one! A volume purchase assures us Pakistanis of our basic right!

Your mention of the demon lover leads me to believe that you are of marriageable age. Your heart-felt anguish at the prevalence of whorehouses also leads me to believe that things have not moved well for you in terms of prospective suitors. I will be happy to send in a couple of very eligible bachelors – in khaki, of course!

Yes, those houses of ill-repute are a serious threat to our country – just imagine the scores and scores of ablaa Pakistani naaris who would have to beg for alms because no decent Pakistani male will marry them because all the decent Pakistani males will be too busy visiting those whorehouses – especially those run by foreign ladies! I admit that our Pakistani young men are so vulnerable and innocent when it comes to resisting the charms of foreign women – even of those across the border! I promise to look into this serious problem at a high priority level – right after my second referendum!

My concern about not showing dead bodies on the media is genuine, of course! It is like this my dear – if it does not show, it never happened, and even if it did – who will tell?! (Not you, I hope!)

Your remarks on the patriotic ISI are most unwarranted! Do you have any clue how hard those folks have to work?! Do you have any idea how many individuals they have to keep track of?! How many politicos they have to watch for and collect data necessary to disqualify them from hoodwinking the innocent Pakistanis by running in elections and getting themselves elected?! You dears are so innocent, my dear! Who is more credible – the brave ISI knights in shining armor or a bunch of mullahs in burqas?

I am glad you liked my autobiography. I realize it is not everybody’s cup of tea. In particular, I think it could have been made a bit more interesting. I thought of hiring this Beej fellow for that job – but changed my mind when it appeared that he would have cut out most of it and simply expanded one small section into a thousand page thriller on my old flame – that Bengali girl! Ahhhhh!

I am sorry I seemed to have disappointed your expectation of being a good dictator. But never fear for this can be easily remedied. Make sure to vote in the next referendum and I will make a much better dictator the next time! Really!

I hope my lengthy explanations above can help you develop a better perspective on life, like you requested. But stay off the bottle – or you will end up like that HP fellow! Like you said yourself, there is always a choice!

I am aware that you want a free press, you want an independent judiciary, you want a strong executive, and you want legislators who are loyal to the COUNTRY, not a theology, philosophy or political ideology.

Absolutely! I am all in agreement.

In fact I consider it my duty to provide you all of those things. We even do so in the most efficient manner – you get all of it rolled into one – and don’t be fooled by its khaki cover!

It is like a one-stop shopping!

Hope to hear from you again!

And again!

Sincerely,
P. Musharraf
(Just call me Mushy)

``Mr. President, are you not aware how many whore houses operate in the capital? Are you not aware that in every sector of Islamabad alcohol is readily available? Has none of your 40 advisors as yet brought this to your attention?``

And these are the issues that merit attention of the government... not poverty, illiteracy etc... Here is essentially the long and short of the matter...

I essentially agree with yasser here!

What is the big deal about alcohol being available in Islamabad and why should that worry the federal government. It is a local issue and the local admin should deal with it.

These two mullahs were demanding that the government should for all intents and purposes change the constitution and enforce sharia instead of the laws that manage the country now. They were basically asking to change the whole court system-supreme court, high court and other law enforcement. And what they were offering in lieu of that? The Jungle law where a few, based on how they interpret the sharia Laws, control the law enforcement. The way they implemented the Sharia showed how much respect they had for Chaddar and Chardiwari.

Is it not true that that both mullah have claimed that they have suicide bombers ready to take on the government? Is it not true that they had claimed that have the arms to defend themselves. Is it not true that 10 Law enforcers died and many more injured because the mullah supporters in the Lal Mosque were armed and used those arms against the army?

I still think that army should have handled the situation differently or perhaps should have taken care of it when the whole thing started. But for the life of me, I don`t understand this groundswell of sympathy for these gangsters who controlled a Mosque and madrassah and took over a library by force.

The thing that we need to understand is that like the army, the Pakistani mullah whether of the Jamaat Islami aka Al qaeeda kind or the MMA kind, is not looking to promote their philosophy via the peaceful means or the democratic means. For all practical purposes like the army in Pakistan, the mullahs are gangsters. The Gangster mentality makes them indulge in what Sultan Rahi made famous: the BarRak. That barRak makes them do things way beyond their capabilities.

The Lal Mosque fiasco has shown one thing clearly that Pakistani don’t want Sharia in Pakistan. Pakistanis don’t want Islamic laws in Pakistan, Pakistanis don’t want these stupid mullahs running the country, and Pakistani don’t want anything to do with these Burka wearing gangsters.

I have looked at all the pictures and I can clearly see that the public just refused to listen to the MMA protest. The number of people showing in protests clearly showed which way Pakistani are headed and it surely is NOT The mullah way.

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#57 by HP

These two mullahs were demanding that the government should for all intents and purposes change the constitution enforce sharia ...

This is a totally misinformed comment. Sharia is already envisaged in the constitution. Lal Masjid was merely agitating for its `implementation`.

``I would have loved to see the money spent on “Operation Silence” used instead to provide clean water, medicines and medical aid to the flood victims. ``

Khadija, Pathetic is the only word to describe your above quote. Will you say that the money spent on training the jihadis and sending them to kashmir also could be spent on providing drinking water.

It is sad to see all of you so worried about lal masjid when about 90 dead bodies are collected every day by Edhi foundation in karachi, those killed in the shia sunny battles.

To talk about human rights of the jihadis, is to talk about the animal rights of rats spreading plague.

Your article is simply pathetic.

Khadija,

Living in pakistan, with all of the good of pakistan in mind, did you write an open letter when Mukhtan Mai was raped and no one was arrested for it.

May be it the cries of the dying jihadis, allahu akbar that woke you up from teh rip van winklian sleep.

Now that you are awake, look around, look at the 2000 odd madrasas teaching hatred.

Can you write an open letter to Mullah Asghar, the man released after the hijacking of the indian aircraft to stop his hate campaign.

You should have been honest to yourself and asked for a high paying job from mushy, that you are educated in the US, or did you come back in a chartered flight payed for by the pak govt.

My dear Khadija,

Thank you for your letter and I could not read past the first paragraph. It is sad to see that some one who can write in English has no dual citizenship, no asset abroad.

Even since the madrassa study was equated with university degree, all the positions in the army and in the public service where a universuty degree is required has gone to the madrassa graduates. Now I know that they all are jihadis.

As you know, the pak govt has created a Jinnah Chair of islamic studies ...i dont remember the name of the university...i know it is in the us, all responses I got were from the madrassa graduates.

I know that since the chair is in the US, knowing only urdu could be a disadvantage.

Hence I have not filled the chair, I myself was waiting to go there once I finish my job here, and as you know I have written a book, that too in English.

I liked the writing, and I am offering you the Jinnah Chair.

here after, when you write to me you will not have to repeat the sad story, write at the beginning.

Your own president

Musheraf Mohajir

( I was born in India, that is why I like people who can write in English)

In response to iLog ofSaima_Gul:

AN OPEN LETTER TO KHADIJA

In pakistan under the hoodood law, murder is not a crime against the state. The close relatives of the murdered has to make an FIR and has to be registered by the police. You may recall the murder of Samia Sarwar and no one was prosecuted.

In the case of lal masjid the laws are the same. There could be thousand murdered, but if no one files an FIR, no crime has been committed.

Your appalling lack of knowledge about the laws of pakistan need some explanation.

I look forward to your response

jayp

HP writes ``The Gangster mentality makes them indulge in what Sultan Rahi made famous: the BarRak. That barRak makes them do things way beyond their capabilities.``

HP sahib, your bleeding heart for the rule of law aside, would u or would you not agree that alcohol and prostitution is against the current laws in pakistan - mullahs or no mullahs?

Since alcohol and prostitution are against the current laws, arent those who engage in alcohol and prostitution just as guilty of taking law in their own hands as those who tried to stop them?

Private citizens who shame government into enacting its own laws should be commended, not bombed. In US, when the government failed to protect borders, citizens took over that responsibility a la Minute Men in Arizona. And they enjoy much admiration. NO one will bomb them for sure.

Re: # 50

Dear Salim Mian,

Iam sorry, but I cud not detect the sarcasm. To me, it sounded more like a charge sheet against the Govt and completly ignores the criminal, hostile acts of the ghajee terrorists.

Its easy to point fingers at the Govt, but what of the terrorists that were willing to kill and be killed? This is just the tip of the ice-berg, ever been to Binoria Town Karachi? That is the mother lode for all terrorists, yet they are untouchable and held with great respect. My dear Salim, debate being framed to justify or rationalize these terrorists is appeasement and has only made the terrorists stronger, ask ZA Bhutto Marhoom.

Bulleya # 28

``.......the lal masjid type problems are social and economic in nature........they are not going to be solved through guns......``

I keep hearing this logic of poverty behind religious militancy. How many high profile religious terrorists are poor. Not only that they were not poor, most of them were actually well to do. (eg. USA, UK) Why the poor of Sind or Baluchistan do not become Religious terrorists? Or for that matter, poor of Argentina, Brazil, India or African countries.

Was Ghazi poor?

Unfortunately, in our case some state factors have also come into play - use of religion in our creation, religion being a part of our constitution, religion in our external / internal policies.....and to top it all, most of the policies handled by the dumb faugies or intelligence agencies.

As for the kids or immature youngsters, they can be easily duped, brainwashed and used. This is what the Mullas do - incite youngsters & gain POWER.

When I was a child in Montgomery (now Sahiwal - Why?), on Fridays, I specially went to a mosque where a fiery Mulla delivered forcefull speeches. He was called `Kuhary Shah` or `Axe Shah` - because his Khutbas got you volatile.

Once, a few missionary ladies were distributing some literature - I had been so brainwashed by this crazy nut that I tore the books that they were distributing in front of them - and then as a scared child, just ran away.

This is the state of mind & exploitation of the youngesters of the Lal Masjid.

The Syllabus of the Madressas may look harmless but it is not the Syllabus that matters. It is the fact of keeping those hapless souls prisoner in the compounds & continuously brainwashing them that turns them into dangerous ROBOTs.

regards

NHK

Re: # 57
count again. 100 in the first 3 rows alone.

apparently a lot of you have missed the point i made about the whore houses. let me repeat myself:

``Mr. President, are you not aware how many whore houses operate in the capital? Are you not aware that in every sector of Islamabad alcohol is readily available? Has none of your 40 advisors as yet brought this to your attention? Has no one realized that what these extremist fanatics have been raging about actually contains a grain of truth amidst all their madness and lack of reason? It is a grain of truth that may sadly now be manipulated to subvert the more critical truth of their outraging militancy.``

and once again, just to be sure:
``It is a grain of truth that may sadly now be manipulated to subvert the more critical truth of their outraging militancy.``

I was appalled when a lot of educated people, unaware of the history of this crisis, unaware of the threats the burqa brigades made against citizens of Islamabad, actually said ``so what? all they wanted was to wipe out alcohol and prostitution!``. This is a reaction to that.

I wish to clarify one other thing IN GENERAL:
YES, I UNDERSTAND THE OPERATION BECAME ESSENTIAL. THAT IS NOT THE POINT. The point is that when you make a BAD DECISION IN THE PAST AND PAY FOR IT IN THE FUTURE, DO NOT COWER BEHIND STATEMENTS OF HELPLESSNESS.

Re: # 64

``if no one files an FIR, no crime has been committed.``
right. i dont have a birth certificate. i must not exist.

``Your appalling lack of knowledge about the laws of pakistan need some explanation.``
I apologize sincerely for my appalling lack of knowledge

I believe the SC demanded an explanation from the government`s lawyers in court about 3 days ago asking under what law the operation was taking place. Apparently there isn`t any actual jurisdiction for the army to be used in these circumstances.

Its time for me to question your logic now: If murder isnt a crime against the state, then what is it?

A general reply to you all:

Thank you for sharing your views and reactions with me. I only have a couple of things to add:

1) talking about one issue, here the lal masjid, does not imply that one is unaware of other issues. Nowhere have i suggested that poverty and illiteracy are not issues that need our attention. Nowhere have i suggested that blood shed in sectarian conflict is acceptable. For now, my outrage is directed at a government that has killed its own people. ITS OWN PEOPLE, implying not only those of us who were pure victims of this tragedy, but ``its own people`` implying that this was an issue created by the government itself FOR VARIOUS REASONS, all of which MUST be brought into question.

2) Yes this is OUR OWN DOING. As apathetic citizens who have willingly relinquished control over our political lives, who have accepted bad governance upon bad governance, under democracy, under dictatorship, we MUST ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR OUR ACTIONS. WE MUST FEEL SHAME AS MUCH AS WE FEEL ANGER.

Sincerely,
Khadija

Re: # 66

dear rf786,

``If mosques and madrassah’s in the CAPITAL that are situated in the shadow of our intelligence force cannot be controlled, how do you hope to control similar monsters across the country?``

hope that clarifies it.

Khadija

Re: # 50

Mr Salim Chauhan,

Thank you for that kind defence.

Unfortunately i am not awaiting immigration documents from anywhere. Perhaps applications are in order :-).

Sincerely,
Khadija

Re: # 60

``Khadija, Pathetic is the only word to describe your above quote. Will you say that the money spent on training the jihadis and sending them to kashmir also could be spent on providing drinking water.``

YES

``It is sad to see all of you so worried about lal masjid when about 90 dead bodies are collected every day by Edhi foundation in karachi, those killed in the shia sunny battles. ``

Why do you assume that if one problem is the point of focus at a particular point in time, that another does not matter?

``To talk about human rights of the jihadis, is to talk about the animal rights of rats spreading plague.``

Im not talking about the human rights of the ``jihadis.`` (what these ``jihadis`` did btw was not even close to the spirit of real jihad). Im talking about a government killing its own people - of running an operation fully mindful of its own culpability, and then justifying it as a necessary evil. Of killing innocent people in a political crossfire. yes, a POLITICAL crossfire. Not a religious one.

``Your article is simply pathetic.``

Thank you for your frank opinion. You are entitled to it.

Sincerely,
Khadija

Re: # 61


``Living in pakistan, with all of the good of pakistan in mind, did you write an open letter when Mukhtan Mai was raped and no one was arrested for it.``

As a matter of fact I wrote an op-ed piece that was published in a weekly.

``May be it the cries of the dying jihadis, allahu akbar that woke you up from teh rip van winklian sleep.``
Now that you are awake, look around, look at the 2000 odd madrasas teaching hatred.
Can you write an open letter to Mullah Asghar, the man released after the hijacking of the indian aircraft to stop his hate campaign.``

Why are you so full of hate?

``You should have been honest to yourself and asked for a high paying job from mushy, that you are educated in the US, or did you come back in a chartered flight payed for by the pak govt.``

I was educated in Pakistan. A few years abroad cannot change the essence of my education.

Re: # 56
I request you do not take my words out of context.

``Mr. President, are you not aware how many whore houses operate in the capital? Are you not aware that in every sector of Islamabad alcohol is readily available? Has none of your 40 advisors as yet brought this to your attention? Has no one realized that what these extremist fanatics have been raging about actually contains a grain of truth amidst all their madness and lack of reason? It is a grain of truth that may sadly now be manipulated to subvert the more critical truth of their outraging militancy.``

the LAST sentence is the operative phrase.

Re: # 52

Mr KamranISS

Its not about muslims killing muslims. its not about religion. its about GOVERNANCE!

khatam-shud,

...its about GOVERNANCE!

I agree with you to this extent. Asma Jahangir was saying the same thing yesterday that ``... let it be any `looli-langri` elected government of the people, but at-least it will be ours``

However, Lal Masjid was talking about `governance` as well, but an `Islamic` manner of Governance. But I guess you`re not into that stuff ... :)

They lost Bajaur after they bombed a madrassa and killed 80 talibs. How long will it take for them to lose Islamabad after they`ve killed a thousand?

#78 by zeemax on July 14, 2007 5:20am PT

The people who bombed bajaur weren`t the ones who bombed islamabad....