Khadija Hassan July 13, 2007
#12 Posted by zeemax on July 13, 2007 12:15:49 pm
#10 by khatam-shud,
Your figures are correct. Thanks for publishing them.
Your figures are correct. Thanks for publishing them.
#16 Posted by khatam-shud on July 13, 2007 12:39:22 pm
Re: # 14
thank you arjun. but this was a rhetorical question. Its an unfortunate legacy of army rule. hence the call to democracy.
thank you arjun. but this was a rhetorical question. Its an unfortunate legacy of army rule. hence the call to democracy.
#17 Posted by khatam-shud on July 13, 2007 12:41:50 pm
Re: # 14
also,
you said ``it was a choice not an accident``
EXACTLY! thank you for hitting the nail on the head. There is always a choice. We made a very bad one, and now we have a chapter in our history called ``Operation Silence``. Just what my son needs to learn about!
also,
you said ``it was a choice not an accident``
EXACTLY! thank you for hitting the nail on the head. There is always a choice. We made a very bad one, and now we have a chapter in our history called ``Operation Silence``. Just what my son needs to learn about!
#14 Posted by arjun2 on July 13, 2007 12:35:02 pm
#13 by khatam-shud on July 13, 2007 12:30pm PT
but why was it ever given the opportunity to become the monster it became?
It was allowed to grow because indoctrinating your population to produce jihadis to fight in kashmir and afghanistan was the policy of your country...and before 9/11 and the uncomfortable questioning the holders of green passports have to go through, we hardly saw anyone speaking out against it...
it was a choice, not an accident...
but why was it ever given the opportunity to become the monster it became?
It was allowed to grow because indoctrinating your population to produce jihadis to fight in kashmir and afghanistan was the policy of your country...and before 9/11 and the uncomfortable questioning the holders of green passports have to go through, we hardly saw anyone speaking out against it...
it was a choice, not an accident...
#22 Posted by thinkingstorm on July 13, 2007 1:26:24 pm
Re: # 18Kulharee
That is a very interesting scenario you put forward. Indeed, if a minority religion had done this to a mullah, all hell would have broken loose.
Sad, we are just as hypocritical as the US that we accuse :)
That is a very interesting scenario you put forward. Indeed, if a minority religion had done this to a mullah, all hell would have broken loose.
Sad, we are just as hypocritical as the US that we accuse :)
#42 Posted by Kulharee on July 13, 2007 3:15:53 pm
Re: # 31
Khadija, I share your frustrations (even though I am a dual national, might even have some vested interest to see changes in Pakistan), what I was trying to say is (and I know it didn’t come out right), that we as Pakistanis (by citizenship, by birth, by association) need to OWN this mess. We can write letters to everyone and their uncles, but it is time to acknowledge that we as a nation have messed it up, for ourselves, for others, for our neighbors. I have been reading a lot of press on the Islamabad massacre, but I have yet to see a single article, a speech, an op-ed piece, by some Pakistani (any Pakistani) who has stood up to claim the ownership of the mess we are in. Fingers are going in every direction, except where they should. We need to get over feeling so special. We make stupid choices like everyone else in the world. Pleading to Musharraf is like asking a grave digger to pray for someone’s long life.
Khadija, I share your frustrations (even though I am a dual national, might even have some vested interest to see changes in Pakistan), what I was trying to say is (and I know it didn’t come out right), that we as Pakistanis (by citizenship, by birth, by association) need to OWN this mess. We can write letters to everyone and their uncles, but it is time to acknowledge that we as a nation have messed it up, for ourselves, for others, for our neighbors. I have been reading a lot of press on the Islamabad massacre, but I have yet to see a single article, a speech, an op-ed piece, by some Pakistani (any Pakistani) who has stood up to claim the ownership of the mess we are in. Fingers are going in every direction, except where they should. We need to get over feeling so special. We make stupid choices like everyone else in the world. Pleading to Musharraf is like asking a grave digger to pray for someone’s long life.
#31 Posted by khatam-shud on July 13, 2007 2:22:52 pm
Re: # 18
That was my way of saying, that decisions taken to run my country rarely take what I want (I, being a Pakistani citizen) into consideration. Most things are done on demands made by outsiders - strategic alliances, balance of power et al. But now i have just about had it. I matter (I, being EVERY pakistani citizen), so listen to me now. Its the plea of a frustrated Pakistani citizen. enjoy the pun, by all means :).
``It’s not the loss of life one is concerned about, it is the life of a certain faith that has consumed the nation of idiots.``
This isn`t about faith. Its about bad governance. Its about paying for bad decisions taken in the past. If it were about religion, it would be a different kind of talk, but make no mistake, there would have been things to say. But yes you are right about us being a nation of idiots. An idiot is someone who willingly relinqhes control over his/her own life/fate. You couldnt have put it better.
That was my way of saying, that decisions taken to run my country rarely take what I want (I, being a Pakistani citizen) into consideration. Most things are done on demands made by outsiders - strategic alliances, balance of power et al. But now i have just about had it. I matter (I, being EVERY pakistani citizen), so listen to me now. Its the plea of a frustrated Pakistani citizen. enjoy the pun, by all means :).
``It’s not the loss of life one is concerned about, it is the life of a certain faith that has consumed the nation of idiots.``
This isn`t about faith. Its about bad governance. Its about paying for bad decisions taken in the past. If it were about religion, it would be a different kind of talk, but make no mistake, there would have been things to say. But yes you are right about us being a nation of idiots. An idiot is someone who willingly relinqhes control over his/her own life/fate. You couldnt have put it better.
#76 Posted by khatam-shud on July 14, 2007 4:43:41 am
Re: # 52
Mr KamranISS
Its not about muslims killing muslims. its not about religion. its about GOVERNANCE!
Mr KamranISS
Its not about muslims killing muslims. its not about religion. its about GOVERNANCE!
#52 Posted by KamranISS on July 13, 2007 5:25:42 pm
Re: # 18
``If similar actions were taken by, let’s say, a religious minority (say Christians of Pakistan kidnap a Mulla and make him parade naked), the entire Christian population of Pakistan will be slaughtered and no one will be writing a single letter to Mr. President. There will be no editorials in TV and papers. It’s not the loss of life one is concerned about, it is the life of a certain faith that has consumed the nation of idiots``
Whilst following this drama I noticed that the most frequent sentence used by everyone is:
``Muslims shouldn`t kill muslims``. ``A compromise should have been found``.
Is this really meant? If it was meant, there would be a similar outcry upon the beheadings/stonings/honor killings/etc of muslims.
It`s ok for goat`s to encite murder of innocent muslims with suicide bombings.
What`s happened to the ``Muslims shouldn`t kill muslims`` ???
The driving force isn`t the cost of muslim lives... It`s the bearded goats and their self-serving religious interpretations and dictates.
This needs adding to the book:
``Use any means to protect your muslim butt``
(Al Burka. Paragraph 420, verse 10 numbri)
``If similar actions were taken by, let’s say, a religious minority (say Christians of Pakistan kidnap a Mulla and make him parade naked), the entire Christian population of Pakistan will be slaughtered and no one will be writing a single letter to Mr. President. There will be no editorials in TV and papers. It’s not the loss of life one is concerned about, it is the life of a certain faith that has consumed the nation of idiots``
Whilst following this drama I noticed that the most frequent sentence used by everyone is:
``Muslims shouldn`t kill muslims``. ``A compromise should have been found``.
Is this really meant? If it was meant, there would be a similar outcry upon the beheadings/stonings/honor killings/etc of muslims.
It`s ok for goat`s to encite murder of innocent muslims with suicide bombings.
What`s happened to the ``Muslims shouldn`t kill muslims`` ???
The driving force isn`t the cost of muslim lives... It`s the bearded goats and their self-serving religious interpretations and dictates.
This needs adding to the book:
``Use any means to protect your muslim butt``
(Al Burka. Paragraph 420, verse 10 numbri)
#18 Posted by Kulharee on July 13, 2007 1:09:10 pm
This is a very passionate plea, but what does one’s passport have to do with it? Is being of a Pakistani origin not enough to comment on the sad situation of affairs? Musharraf did too little and a day too late. The minute the kidnapping of Aunty Shamim took place, the whole place should have been nuked. Musharraf lacks the moral authority as he rose to power himself illegally.
If similar actions were taken by, let’s say, a religious minority (say Christians of Pakistan kidnap a Mulla and make him parade naked), the entire Christian population of Pakistan will be slaughtered and no one will be writing a single letter to Mr. President. There will be no editorials in TV and papers. It’s not the loss of life one is concerned about, it is the life of a certain faith that has consumed the nation of idiots.
If similar actions were taken by, let’s say, a religious minority (say Christians of Pakistan kidnap a Mulla and make him parade naked), the entire Christian population of Pakistan will be slaughtered and no one will be writing a single letter to Mr. President. There will be no editorials in TV and papers. It’s not the loss of life one is concerned about, it is the life of a certain faith that has consumed the nation of idiots.
#33 Posted by khatam-shud on July 13, 2007 2:24:04 pm
Re: # 19
Dear Mr. President,
May I also have some cookies, milk and a year`s supply of BS?
Khadija Hassan
Dear Mr. President,
May I also have some cookies, milk and a year`s supply of BS?
Khadija Hassan
#19 Posted by rf786 on July 13, 2007 1:14:57 pm
Dear Writer,
You forgot to ask for a cookie, some milk and one year free supply of BS.
Being a Pakistani with no dual nationality, residing in Pakistan yet asking for a vote on alcohol in a country that has yet to reverse reprehensible blasphemy laws, what gives?
You forgot to ask for a cookie, some milk and one year free supply of BS.
Being a Pakistani with no dual nationality, residing in Pakistan yet asking for a vote on alcohol in a country that has yet to reverse reprehensible blasphemy laws, what gives?
#36 Posted by khatam-shud on July 13, 2007 2:30:37 pm
Re: # 20
Hello Stuka,
Yes this is the same Khadija. How are you?
My beef is with governance. Who ever rules - army, party, philosopher king - doesnt matter. The priority needs to be the same. good governance.
as far as the operation goes, yes there really was no choice. Things had turned THAT ugly. But that cannot be a justification we should swallow easily. theek hai, operation hua. but why let things fester so badly that it was required at all?
As far as the discrepancy in figures goes, i refer you back to my first paragraph.
good to see you again,
Khadija
Hello Stuka,
Yes this is the same Khadija. How are you?
My beef is with governance. Who ever rules - army, party, philosopher king - doesnt matter. The priority needs to be the same. good governance.
as far as the operation goes, yes there really was no choice. Things had turned THAT ugly. But that cannot be a justification we should swallow easily. theek hai, operation hua. but why let things fester so badly that it was required at all?
As far as the discrepancy in figures goes, i refer you back to my first paragraph.
good to see you again,
Khadija
#20 Posted by stuka on July 13, 2007 1:16:33 pm
Khatam Shud: Hmm, this nick sounds familiar..are you the Cornell grad that wrote the article on the Vagina monologues?
Re this article: You say that 500 people aredead. The BBC is saying that the figure is in the lower hudred range. I`m a bit confused.
Anyways, I liked the article in terms of rhetoric but did not understand what your bigger beef is? The Operation should not have been done, it should have been done but with better execution? Or the bigger point is about Musharraf not keeping his word as a leader (about the uniform)?
Re this article: You say that 500 people aredead. The BBC is saying that the figure is in the lower hudred range. I`m a bit confused.
Anyways, I liked the article in terms of rhetoric but did not understand what your bigger beef is? The Operation should not have been done, it should have been done but with better execution? Or the bigger point is about Musharraf not keeping his word as a leader (about the uniform)?
#21 Posted by thinkingstorm on July 13, 2007 1:24:06 pm
Khadija-
I read your other articles as well to get a better understanding of your point of view. I appreciate your article better now.
My knee jerk reaction was due to my misreading of what the body count meant, and I thought you were condoning the mullah brigade when you asked the pres if he did not know how many whore houses and alcohol are oeprating in islamabad. Which you are not.
So apologies for assuming things you said.
I agree with most of what you say. I agree that the situation should never have gotten to where it has gotten to. That lal masjid should have been evacuated months ago. Should have been shut down years ago. But just as I do not believe the official numbers, I don`t think the numbers you were given are any more accurate either. We are a nation of exaggaraters. We exaggarate the hell out of everything. But this is not a numbers game either.
So where does Mushy stand? Does he have a strategy?
Here is what I think. I think he is a tactical man, not a strategic leader. His command was challenged by Nawaz Sharif and his forces launched an immediate and effective takeover. Once he overthrew the government, he did not know what to do. He did not make a public statement for the longest time.
I think Musharraf has/had some good ideas. But he has dictatorial ideaology as well. He is not as ruthless as Zia, nor is he as corrupt as BB or Nawaz...but he is in power by force. Unfortunately, there is no credible leadership or candidates in Pakistan at the moment. Not musharraf, not BB, not nawaz, not Imran. None. Zippo.
So we must be vigilant, otherwise extremist ideology will become the viable candidate.
I am curious to know, other than raising our voices, what other tangible action do you think people should take?
-thinking.
I read your other articles as well to get a better understanding of your point of view. I appreciate your article better now.
My knee jerk reaction was due to my misreading of what the body count meant, and I thought you were condoning the mullah brigade when you asked the pres if he did not know how many whore houses and alcohol are oeprating in islamabad. Which you are not.
So apologies for assuming things you said.
I agree with most of what you say. I agree that the situation should never have gotten to where it has gotten to. That lal masjid should have been evacuated months ago. Should have been shut down years ago. But just as I do not believe the official numbers, I don`t think the numbers you were given are any more accurate either. We are a nation of exaggaraters. We exaggarate the hell out of everything. But this is not a numbers game either.
So where does Mushy stand? Does he have a strategy?
Here is what I think. I think he is a tactical man, not a strategic leader. His command was challenged by Nawaz Sharif and his forces launched an immediate and effective takeover. Once he overthrew the government, he did not know what to do. He did not make a public statement for the longest time.
I think Musharraf has/had some good ideas. But he has dictatorial ideaology as well. He is not as ruthless as Zia, nor is he as corrupt as BB or Nawaz...but he is in power by force. Unfortunately, there is no credible leadership or candidates in Pakistan at the moment. Not musharraf, not BB, not nawaz, not Imran. None. Zippo.
So we must be vigilant, otherwise extremist ideology will become the viable candidate.
I am curious to know, other than raising our voices, what other tangible action do you think people should take?
-thinking.
#23 Posted by PewResearch on July 13, 2007 1:30:45 pm
In the article, this paragraph aptly summarizes that the rest of the world is asking Musharraf:
The red mosque is a stones throw away from the ISI headquarters. What is more, a number of ISI staff are said to offer their prayers on its premises regularly. Was our intelligence agency not aware of how these weapons and rockets were procured by the mullahs at the red mosque? Were our intelligence officers really that busy invading the personal life of the CJ and other officials, however corrupt they may be? If mosques and madrassah’s in the CAPITAL that are situated in the shadow of our intelligence force cannot be controlled, how do you hope to control similar monsters across the country?
The red mosque is a stones throw away from the ISI headquarters. What is more, a number of ISI staff are said to offer their prayers on its premises regularly. Was our intelligence agency not aware of how these weapons and rockets were procured by the mullahs at the red mosque? Were our intelligence officers really that busy invading the personal life of the CJ and other officials, however corrupt they may be? If mosques and madrassah’s in the CAPITAL that are situated in the shadow of our intelligence force cannot be controlled, how do you hope to control similar monsters across the country?
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