A Letter To President Musharraf

Azizist (Zeemax),

Do u have smilar coverage in Urdu newspapers in Pakistan?

>>>....... as soldiers tramped across the main hall in army boots - something normally forbidden in Islam - the military said the mosque had lost its sanctity. ``This is not a mosque,`` said Gen Arshad.....<<<

http://www.guardian.co.uk/pakistan/Story/0,,2125492,00.html


Rgds,
Shamimist

Re: # 27

Maharaj Folio ji aka page ji

Yaar...tum to naraaz ho gaiy....i was just kidding man....and why would i put you on my ignore list???

Page ji....you are one of my favourite interacters here....chalo shabhash aab mushkaro do...that`s a good page....

p.s. and page ji because of you i am gonna break BRIAN LARA` record. its 401* now......takbeer.

Re: # 25

Gaandu,

Folio means page or a book. Why does my ID name bother u?

This name is assumed as I am an avid reader of books b4 Internet came into being.

U are one of the near-2000 Chowkies here. Why shud we hold breath coz u are nearing 400 posts? U think u are Socrates or Plato?

To make it simpler, pl put me on ur ignore list. That solves our problem together. Dont mention my name unncessarily.

Samjhe?

khadijja hassan

Old questions but have never been more relevant than now. EXCELLENT ARTICLE...


P.S. Ladies and Gentlemen(foolio excluded untill he changes his name) with this interact i am going to equal BRIAN LARA`s record of 400*. Lara did it on St. johns antigua and i have done it on khadija hassan board and that too in overseas condition.

Re: # 26
I like how you call it soul searching. For sometimes it feels that my nation has lost its soul...

One thing I am surprised about is the amount of soul searching going on about this operation. I remember Operation Blue Star in India; there was complete unanimity amogst the chattering classes that ``it had to be done`` and they needed to taught a lesson. Its a different matter that the Sikhs did not agree with the opinions of the chattering classes.

I guess Kulharee is right that if this was a minority group, it would be shrugged of as essential and there may not be soul searching.

nice article.......

.....this operation should not have been done.......at least not in this manner.......there is absolutely no reason to kill a citizen of pakistan, by the govt., other than in self-defence....in that sense, an operation against mqm should have been done, far before this one.........

.......the lal masjid type problems are social and economic in nature........they are not going to be solved through guns......the usa has bombed the crap out of afghanistan and iraq......has that solved anything, or has it created even more issues for the usa.......the same will happen in pakistan.........

.........these problems tend to solve slowly.........one step at a time.......give people better schools to study in........give them equality.........take them out of poverty..........don`t brainwash them for one task one day and then kill them, the next.......

and most of all, pursue everything through the rule of law......i had suggested earlier the govt. should file a case, under illegal occupation of land and then get a court decision.......after which, it should simply cut off their electricity, water etc. and wait........and wait......and wait........

after which, if it can get a political settlement, without killing anyone, it should agree it......catch one brother and let the other go, if you cannot catch both........that is still some progress..........a lot better than killing so many people.........

people who attack and video shop and burn videos are not evil.......they are brainwashed.......if they were evil, they would be selling the videos for a profit.........the solution isn`t to kill them........

p.s. i think people are unnecessarily blaiming the usa for this one........my guess is its the chinese who must have pushed musharraf........the lal masjid students really over-stepped their boundaries, when they went after chinese citizens......

in any case, pakistanis killing pakistanis is always a sad situation..........and no one should be happy about it, or even be indifferent to it.......if one accepts this, then the day the religious brigade gets power, it will go after the liberal brigade in the same manner.....

stuka #26: ``One thing I am surprised about is the amount of soul searching going on about this operation.``

.....the reason there is so much soul searching going on is because pakistanis don`t know which direction the country is headed........there is chaos and no order.......no one knows where the country will be in ten years........

in addition, the govt. itself is illegitimate and very inconsistent.......it kills tens to hundreds of students in a madrassah one day and defends a political party which is its partner and killed tens of people, another day.......

i have absolutely no sympathy for what the ghazi bros. were doing, however, i don`t think the govt. should have killed so many people.......there were other better ways of handling this situation........

i am working actively in pakistan now, and i can sense a sense of confusion.......people aren`t quite sure what will happen......and people are fed up with the army, feudals and with mullahs, yet the system is such that none can be removed, other than by each other........hence if they carry out an operation against each other, it becomes difficult to side with any party.......other than with those who were killed.....

p.s. i don`t know the details of operation blue star, but i have met more than my share of sikhs, who seem to still view it as a defining moment in their thought process, regarding their identity and where they fit in india........

Re: # 32 Arjun

Arjun, you have a very acidic style of interacting on chowk, usually baiting others, and dragging the discussion into pak bashing. However, your posts do carry some truth in them.

I agree about the poverty vs. indoctrination. Poor people do not become fundamentalists automatically. Sufism with its message of tolerance was widely adopted by the same ``poor`` people.

It is ideological indoctrination that causes the problem. Usually catches strong roots in the middle class or in some cases (like OBL) in the filthy rich.

No religion is completely right or completely wrong. All paths lead to the truth. But no path itself is the truth, it is just a path.

-thinking

#28 by bulleya on July 13, 2007 2:11pm PT


take them out of poverty


Nice try but poverty and lack of education don`t produce terrorists...islamic indoctrination does..

OBL is a billionaire
Mohd Atta studied in the west as did omar sheikh and khalid sheikh mohammed

the paki state, with the support of a large number of the average paki people, create the jihadi monster through a systematic program of islamic indoctrination..now when the jihadi monster is biting you in the rear, you blame poverty and other things...

stop the islamic indoctrination and the terrorism will stop...terrorism that is initially directed outwards but almost always bites the hands that fed it....

PETITION TO APPOINT A JUDICIAL COMMISSION TO FIND THE TRUTH ABOUT LAL MASJID:

Please consider signing. The petition will be delivered to CJP in 15 days.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/Lal-Masjid-Pakistan/

Join the coalition of the truth and the battle to save the soul of Pakistan.

-TAKE PAKISTAN BACK COALITION

#26 by stuka on July 13, 2007 2:04pm PT


there was complete unanimity amogst the chattering classes that ``it had to be done`` and they needed to taught a lesson.


60 years of democracy and Indians have come to realize that they are ultimately responsible for the actions of the government they elected..which is why the indian people don`t go around looking for a messiah, like the pakis do...the soul searching is done at election time...

One thing, I was impressed after reading the younger Ghazi`s obituary. I had nothing but contempt and disgust for the Mullahs after the older one was caught in a damn Burkha. But the younger one redeemed his image completely. The other thing, I saw the younger brother speak to media a few minutes / hours before his death. And the Ghazi was talking about someone who had promised him that he would never drink. Such selfless ness is admirable indeed.


Obituary: Abdul Rashid Ghazi

Asif Farooqui of the BBC`s Urdu service profiles Abdul Rashid Ghazi who led the last of the resistance in Islamabad`s Red Mosque to Pakistan`s security forces.


Pakistani cleric Abdul Rashid Ghazi moved in liberal circles and favoured Western-style clothes as a young man, but was radicalised later in life.

His father, Maulana Abdullah, founded Islamabad`s Lal Masjid (Red Mosque) and served as its head from when it was built in the late 1960s.

Maulana Abdullah`s murder in 1998 left Abdul Rashid Ghazi a changed man and appears to have marked the start of his transformation from moderate to militant.

He came into the public limelight in 2001 when Pakistan`s religious parties formed an alliance against the US invasion of Afghanistan.

After that he was accused of plotting to kill President Musharraf and of having numerous links with Islamic militants.

Struck from father`s will

Abdul Rashid Ghazi`s father came from a poor and religious family in Rajanpur district in southern Punjab.


The real problems between [Ghazi] and the state developed in 2004, over the operation against pro-Taleban militants in Pakistan`s tribal areas

The family belongs to the Baloch Mazari, a warrior tribe from southern Punjab and north-eastern Balochistan.

Maulana Abdullah`s circle of influence included senior government officials and politicians and he was said to be very close to former military ruler Gen Zia-ul-Haq.

In 1998, Maulana Abdullah was assassinated in the courtyard of the Red Mosque. According to his will, his elder son, Maulana Abdul Aziz, replaced him as the mosque`s khateeb (the person who delivers the sermon).

Abdul Aziz was always seen as the obedient son, who quietly followed in his father`s footsteps. But his younger brother was quite different.

From the very first, Abdul Rashid Ghazi refused to receive any sort of formal Islamic education. He enrolled at a madrassa (religious school) under pressure from his father, but soon ran away.

He refused to grow a beard, and went to the secular Quaid-e-Azam University in Islamabad, later graduating with a master`s degree in international relations. He then applied for and got a job with the Ministry of Education.

Abdul Rashid Ghazi also refrained from using the title Hafiz (someone who has memorised the Koran). So displeased was his father by his un-Islamic lifestyle that he made his elder son sole heir in his will.

After his father`s murder, Abdul Rashid Ghazi started to take an interest in the affairs of the mosque and the madrassa attached to it and also grew a beard.

But he continued his job with the Ministry of Education. His elder brother, meanwhile, encouraged his Islamic re-education, and made him his deputy in the mosque and heir apparent.

`Militant links`

In 2001, Abdul Rashid Ghazi became a central leader of the religious alliance opposed to the US invasion of Afghanistan, making passionate speeches about defending the country at daily demonstrations in Islamabad.

But the real problems between him and the state developed in 2004, over the operation against pro-Taleban militants in Pakistan`s tribal areas.

Like other religious leaders, Abdul Rashid Ghazi also condemned the operation and used the Red Mosque to wage a campaign against it.

During this time the mosque issued a fatwa or religious edict which said that soldiers dying in the campaign should described as ``killed``, while the militants` dead were to be called ``martyrs``. This enraged President Musharraf and the army.

Soon after, the government announced that Abdul Rashid Ghazi had been involved in a plot to blow up the president`s house, the parliament building and army headquarters on Pakistan`s independence day.

Abdul Rashid Ghazi went underground, and the government presented an explosive-filled truck owned by him as evidence of his involvement to the media.

Armed

Some time later the minister for religious affairs, Ejaz-ul-Haq, held a press conference saying that Abdul Rashid Ghazi had not been involved in the plot and the real culprits had been arrested and charged.

These were said to be men belonging to the tribal areas and included Uzbek militants. It had also been established, officials said, that they had regularly visited the Red Mosque.

Further investigations apparently revealed that Abdul Rashid Ghazi had close contacts with militants in Pakistan`s tribal area of Waziristan.

The cleric`s first known gun battle took place when armed men tried to assassinate him in Islamabad. But he and his bodyguards using AK-47 rifles fought them off.

Since then, Abdul Rashid Ghazi always travelled around armed. He had an AK-47 in his car, near his work desk and near his bed when he slept.

Philosopher,

We can keep our disagreements to ourselves without rufffling each other`s feathers. Ruffle them when it`s absolutely necessary.

Mujhe jai nahin chaahiye bhai.......give us ur educated opinions....I learn even from my opponents.............I have no such hang ups.

Thanks & good weekend.

Re: # 40 arjun

I agree, facts are facts. Jehadi`s killing others or each other is a fact too ( a lot of us Pakistanis never supported the jihadis btw). It is also a fact that you often drag these facts into discussions that have nothing to do with these facts :).

This discussion has everything to do with jehadis, and I concur with your reasoning.

-thinking

#37 by thinkingstorm on July 13, 2007 2:35pm PT


discussion into pak bashing. However, your posts do carry some truth in them.


why is it ``pak bashing`` to point out the FACT that the jihadis being killed today are the ones your government actively nurtured, trained, armed and funded? facts don`t morph into a ``bash`` simply because they`re inconvenient to you..


No religion is completely right or completely wrong.


religions are neither right nor wrong...It`s the followers who go right or wrong...